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Thread: 400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Because it depends on the market you're in. Usually with a VIP
    room the club takes your credit card which is pretty good security for payment, and they check your credit in the first couple of minutes you are up there. $400 is a hefty loss. I think a $10 or $20 dance
    is a minimal risk to the dancer to collect after the dance.
    In our area, the legal niceties will probably not protect the customer from being roughed up a bit on a $400 skipped tab. On a $10 or $20 table dance they'll just throw him out. Local customer remains payment in arrears, but the clubs take a more active role on collection. It's almost amusing to think of a lawyer here who would make a public issue out of not paying a strip club tab. The lawyers really do that out east?

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg104791#msg104 791 date=1083623356
    So what? That is totally irrelevant to this topic. It's about a girl who picked a guy's pocket - has nothing to do with whether or not he paid up front. She would have picked his pocket regardless. The topic HERE has nothing to do with that.
    I think what Pan Dah was alluding to is the fact that there are dishonest people on both sides of the tip rail. It is perfectly understandable for a dancer who's fronted $400 worth of services to a customer to worry about him ponying up at the end. It is therefore no less understandable for a customer who's prepayed $400 for those services to worry that his entertainer isn't going to fulfill her end of the bargain since she already has the money.

    I don't know why this prepay/postpay thing is such an issue of contention. A customer's concern about being ripped off is merely a reflection of a dancer's.

    I can understand prepayment for a large time block with a triple digit price tag on it, but I think the situation that Elle was reffering to was a "pay by the dance" matter, and while my geographical experience is limited, I can honestly say that in nine years of going to clubs I can count on one hand the number of times that I've been asked to pay up front, even in clubs where prepayment was club policy, or at least at the dancer's discretion.

    Maybe a better question to ask would be why a dancer who has at least the option of getting her money up front, lets the customer pay at the end.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    If I go to get my nails done or a massage or a doctor visit, I would have absolutely NO problem paying for the service up front. I am not so oversensitive as some of you guys. I realize it doesn't matter whether I pay up front or at the end. It does not matter. Please get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Dancers let most customers pay at the end most of the time because of the OVERSENSITIVITY of most customers. We realize their extremely fragile egos would be burst if, god forbid, we asked to get paid up front for the service they agreed to, and would likely not pay at all. We are in a catch 22.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    i guess i'm lucky because the bouncers at my club go out of thier way to try to talk the guy into paying up even threating to call the police. they actaully have called the cops and the cops said if he didnt pay he could go to jail for theft of services (lkinda like running out on a tab or hotel room rental) almost every time this has happend the dancer got at least half her money, the cops only came once and of course our manager doesnt want the police there so now we arent allowed to call them just act like we might. oh and i'm in florida as well , not tampa however
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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg105001#msg105 001 date=1083654527
    If I go to get my nails done or a massage or a doctor visit, I would have absolutely NO problem paying for the service up front. I am not so oversensitive as some of you guys. I realize it doesn't matter whether I pay up front or at the end. It does not matter. Please get over it.
    Let's be careful in comparing the services offered by a mainstream enterprise to selling dances because thats like comparing apples to oranges. People go to the salon to get their nails done, but nobody goes to get their nails done two, three or ten times in the same session.

    That and I should point out that those types of businesses generally have a far more trustworthy reputation than the average strip club does. I know the majority of us who make an effort to be honest in our dealings find this to be a pain in the ass, but the ripoff quotient in strip clubs is high enough to for both dancers and customers to understandably be on guard. We customers will "get over it" when you dancers do, which I don't see happening anytime soon. Again, I don't know why this is such an issue of contention. A well seasoned customer or dancer should in fact have a great understanding what the other has to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg105004#msg105 004 date=1083655062
    Dancers let most customers pay at the end most of the time because of the OVERSENSITIVITY of most customers.
    Or perhaps they've come to the conclusion that the terms of prepayment aren't always in their best interest:

    1. In a prepay situation, a dancer CANNOT make a customer buy a dance, whereas in a post pay situation they CAN minimize the damage of getting ripped off by collecting periodically and refusing further service until the tab gets paid off.

    2. When a dancer makes a sale, she doesn't know whether its going to be for two songs or ten, and the key to getting that higher number is to get a good flow going. This is a little hard to do when the customer is being pestered to fish money out of his pocket every 3-4 minutes.

    3. Customers who are allowed to pay at the end may offer an extra tip if he thought her performance was exceptional. Asking for the money upfront may mean forgoing that tip because the customer doesn't want to reach into his wallet one more time.

    4. They've concluded that there are more good apples than bad, and that the money they lose in lost sales by enforcing prepayment FAR exceeds the money they lose to non-paying bums ripping them off. Also, that extra tip money that generous customers have contributed helps make up for some of the loss. In fact, I think Elle stated this herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by tampafldancer link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg104080#msg104 080 date=1083459564
    But you know what, later that night i had a regular customer MAKE UP for what earning i lost..
    Affirmative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg105004#msg105 004 date=1083655062
    We realize their extremely fragile egos would be burst if, god forbid, we asked to get paid up front for the service they agreed to, and would likely not pay at all. We are in a catch 22.
    Yes, but a customer's fragile ego is what creates demand for the service you provide. If it were not for that, they probably wouldn't be coming in and paying you to make them feel validated.

    While people in "mainstream" sales positions don't deal with reluctant customers in quite the way that dancers do, they do indeed deal with this sort of thing all the time. My parents could fill a row of Britannicas with all the stuff that they've done to placate their customers over the years, including things far beyond what they were obliged to do, just so they could make the sale. If you want the rose, you have to accept the thorns that sometimes come with it.

    For the record, I don't have any qualms about paying up front for the first song as I know that I'm going to be due for it eventually, but I don't really know at the time (particularly with a new dancer) whether I'm going to be buying multiples or not. Perhaps many dancers don't collect up front because they are keenly aware of this type of buying habit.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Veteran Member Isis's Avatar
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    I think it is much more offensive to not pay for dances than to skip out on, say a hotel bill b/c of the nudity and sexual contact that's involved.
    Besides most hotles require a backup payment ( copy of ur credit card info req. upon check in) so that's not a fair comparison. When a dancer asks for the first dance to be prepaid it's kinda the same thing. I wonder how many of the customers who get offended or refuse to pay upfront for a dance also get offended or upset at having to provide check in info at hotels

    The dinner bill is a better comparison but not much since selling a dance is not the same thing as selling a dinner entree and we all know it :

    The dancer is taking the bigger risks than the customer on most all levels in regards to the stripclub enviroment and so I think customers need to be more understanding when it comes to this subject in particular.

    One of the guys mentioned that they think a $10 or $20 dance is a minimal risk to the dancer to collect after the dance..... well it isn't so minimal when u consider that's the risk for every dance we do all night long if it's not pre paid.Everytime a dancer collects on the backend she risks not being paid at all- that's a very high risk if u ask me

    It's quite a differnt story to not get paid for serving food than to not get paid for letting a customer fondle parts of your flesh. Customers should remember that a little more





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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Quote Originally Posted by Isis link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg105145#msg105 145 date=1083699674
    I think it is much more offensive to not pay for dances than to skip out on, say a hotel bill b/c of the nudity and sexual contact that's involved.
    Besides most hotles require a backup payment ( copy of ur credit card info req. upon check in) so that's not a fair comparison. When a dancer asks for the first dance to be prepaid it's kinda the same thing. I wonder how many of the customers who get offended or refuse to pay upfront for a dance also get offended or upset at having to provide check in info at hotels

    The dinner bill is a better comparison but not much since selling a dance is not the same thing as selling a dinner entree and we all know it

    The dancer is taking the bigger risks than the customer on most all levels in regards to the stripclub enviroment and so I think customers need to be more understanding when it comes to this subject in particular.

    One of the guys mentioned that they think a $10 or $20 dance is a minimal risk to the dancer to collect after the dance..... well it isn't so minimal when u consider that's the risk for every dance we do all night long if it's not pre paid.

    Everytime a dancer collects on the backend she risks not being paid at all- that's a very high risk if u ask me

    It's quite a differnt story to not get paid for serving food than to not get paid for letting a customer fondle parts of your flesh. Customers should remember that a little more
    I do not agree. I think that all are just as rude and disruptive. In some restaurants, if a customer skips out on the bill, then the server is required to pay that bill (this is how it was at one of the restaurants that I used to serve at). The actual "selling point" food or flesh is moot. The point is that some people put so little value in honesty, integrity, and morality (is that the right word?). I find that it's not so much that you don't get "paid" that pisses you off, but that someone valued you so little as to rip you off in the first place. At least that is how I felt. I wasn't so mad that I didn't get the money (I'll live...I'll make it up...) but what really steams me is that this person put so little value on me...put so little value on the honesty and integrity of themselves that they would actually take someone for a ride. Of course, I am the same with my customers. I will NOT take advantage of someone because they are sloppy drunk and cannot remmeber that they already paid me for a dance. I had one guy try to pay me 6 times for one dance because he kept forgetting he already paid me. I could have taken the money and said, "Oh, well...his problem." But, I just couldn't bring myself to be that dishonest. Maybe HE wouldn't remember, but I would...and I didn't want that. In the end, I still made money off of him, but only for dances that I actually did. He came back in a few nights later and would only talk with me. Right now, I will stop every few dances and collect my money. Until I have a guy that comes in regularly and EARNS my complete trust to pay me afterwards for all of the dances, they'll just have to pay every few dances. Of course, I have some guys that will pay for 10 dances from me, but will want me to come back throughout the night and dance for them instead of getting 10 dances all at once, or calling me back every so often and paying for each dance. But, they trust me and know that I will be back. What goes around, comes around.

  9. #34
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Doc, I was simply replying to Pan Dah's comment about the nails, massage or doctor. No I don't pay them up front, but you damn well bet if they asked me to, I would without hesitation. I say again that customers have a problem paying strippers up front because of OVERSENSITIVITY, it is much less about the trustoworthiness of the strippers. Anyway if so many guys think soooooo poorly of strippers that they can't even trust them (in most regular circumstances) to perform services paid for, wtf do they even stoop to go to see such lowly creatures for anyway?

    There is no reason to go into a diatribe about how dancers make so much more money by running tabs over prepay (I could argue that, but that's another topic). I've been in the business long enough I understand the system very well thank you. I have also worked in a wide variety of clubs and seen how a wide variety of systems work, and seen with my own eyes that prepay doesn't always screw the dancer out of more dances/tips if it is done right and the dancer knows what the hell she's doing. As with anything else, ultimately it is up to the dancer to learn how to handle situations to her benefit. I just get really annoyed at the way many customers want to take personal offense simply because a dancer expects to get paid for her services.

    To that end, NO dancer should EVER let a customer run a tab over $100 without getting paid, unless it is a very well known customer whom she knows she can trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  10. #35
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    4. They've concluded that there are more good apples than bad, and that the money they lose in lost sales by enforcing prepayment FAR exceeds the money they lose to non-paying bums ripping them off. Also, that extra tip money that generous customers have contributed helps make up for some of the loss. In fact, I think Elle stated this herself.

    Quote from: tampafldancer on May 01, 2004, 05:59:24 pm
    But you know what, later that night i had a regular customer MAKE UP for what earning i lost..



    yes... in so many words. This is so true!! But know im watching "my back" a bit more!

    bridge- Your right about the 100 dollors, but i had a well known customer in the club stop when i asked for his 140 because of the guy running out on me the other day. He probally would have continued if i didn't say anthing, in fact i know he would have. I guess guys hit "reality" when payment is asked up front.
    I guess you have to follow your own peronal judgements about the person, and i thought i was a good judge of that. I guess looking back i should have known better. He was under 28, decent looking and a body builder.. (also a bit arrogant) I should have known!

  11. #36
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    It's quite a differnt story to not get paid for serving food than to not get paid for letting a customer fondle parts of your flesh. Customers should remember that a little more


    IRIS, i felt USED BIG TIME!!! tHIS STATEMENT is so true!

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    2. When a dancer makes a sale, she doesn't know whether its going to be for two songs or ten, and the key to getting that higher number is to get a good flow going. This is a little hard to do when the customer is being pestered to fish money out of his pocket every 3-4 minutes.

    3. Customers who are allowed to pay at the end may offer an extra tip if he thought her performance was exceptional. Asking for the money upfront may mean forgoing that tip because the customer doesn't want to reach into his wallet one more time.

    4. They've concluded that there are more good apples than bad, and that the money they lose in lost sales by enforcing prepayment FAR exceeds the money they lose to non-paying bums ripping them off. Also, that extra tip money that generous customers have contributed helps make up for some of the loss. In fact, I think Elle stated this herself.
    I agree entirely with these three points. As a concrete example I'd offer the fact that I once worked in clubs which operated on a private dance ticket system. The customer had to purchase the tickets up front, and when the tickets ran out I had to stop dancing - period. Even though the customer might just be getting "warmed up", the flow had to be broken, the dances had to stop, and the customer or the dancer then had to go back to the club's cash register to buy more dance tickets, before more dances could be given.

    With this system it was virtually impossible to make really decent money because guys were reluctant to buy more than 2 or 3 dance tickets up front without knowing in advance what sort of private dances they would actually be receiving. Also, some other guy might decide to buy one dance ticket and wait until a particular dancer finished doing private dances with another customer. If the 'hot' customer ran through his 2-3 original tickets and the dances had to stop and the customer had to go buy more tickets at the club's cash register, it was then possible for the other guy waiting with ticket in hand to take that same dancer back to the VIP room ahead of the 'hot' customer with a fresh handful of private dance tickets - virtually guaranteeing that the 'hot' customer would not wait to do more private dances with the same dancer.

    i felt USED BIG TIME!!! tHIS STATEMENT is so true!
    I hear you - been there, felt exactly the same way ! However, you have to maintain your perspective that the same "back end" payment system which allowed this customer to rip you off has also allowed you to earn tons of money for multiple dances with 'hot' customers on a roll, which would not have been possible with a "front end" payment system.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg105096#msg105 096 date=1083687320
    Let's be careful in comparing the services offered by a mainstream enterprise to selling dances because thats like comparing apples to oranges.
    Just wanted to add that I don't see how, logically, selling dances and selling massages or manicures or any other service are so different. They're all still a service. The only real difference is customers' PERCEPTION of them and the people performing them. Customers associate a girl who takes her clothes off for money as being unscrupulous, while the 'mainstream' service providers are PERCEIVED as being more honest. Surely you can see the lack of logic there.

    What really makes anyone think a massuese(sp?) who is paid up front would do as good a job as one who is paid at the end? The fact that (if he/she is smart) repeat business is desired of course! Same with dancers. Some stupid dancers will provide the same lackluster dance no matter when they're paid, because they're not thinking of repeat business or their business reputation.

    Melonie, I worked in a prepay 'ticket' club too, and it did not hurt my business or cause me to lose repeat dances. They were not so strict to make the guy prepay once his first round had been used up, but you bet there was a bouncer at the door of the laproom waiting to take his money when we were done. I had plenty of repeat dances all the time this way. I think a club that makes the guy prepay every time after finishing a first paid round is doing it wrong. And VIP time should most definitely be prepaid all the time, no matter what.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Tampadancer, if you're with a customer you know, it's generally ok to trust him to pay at the end. Just not a stranger. I'd think a known customer would find being asked to pay up in the middle of his run would find it offensive after being used to postpay at that club. This is a different thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  15. #40
    tampafldancer
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    When i say known customer, I meant known to the club , but unknown to me at the time. I didn't know until after i danced with him that he was.

    It is impossible for me to know everyone who walks through the doors But i will know from now on!! You win some, you loose some!


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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    here is a line that worked well for me geting paid up front with new customers :

    How about we get the formalities (or business part) out of the way so we can just enjoy ourselves ?

    at that point hold your garder open a little and smile your sexiest smile

    When you get good at this approach you can add in

    how many would you like to start with and get paid for mulitple dances upfront
    If a new customer questions you explain that there's some guy running around town ripping dancers off. If he is any sort of gentleman he understand. If he persists tell him sweetly

    it's a Pay per View Service- you pay- you view
    and show him a little leg or cleavage . If that doesn't work he's got issues

    Always collect at least your first song upfront that way if you do 3 and he only has enough for 2 its not a total loss




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    Veteran Member curvygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Tampafldancer, what the hell club was this in???

    I can't believe management didn't even try to help you out!!!!! While I think you should have gotten the money up front for each dance, I still think management should have been keeping an eye on the situation!!

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    always always always get your money up front. this is something i live by at work or i won't make any money. they take more than 60% of the room cost so i have to get a person for tips.
    Hustler for Life.

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    I like sandys ideas... they didnt work for you, don't pay 'em.... that is such bs. I had a manager/bouncer/dj escort my customer to his car once to get the rest of the money... he did it gladly. he got tipped. why should you give them anything if they are just gonna stand there? idiots....

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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    Quote Originally Posted by velvet link=board=27;threadid=8833;start=msg105080#msg105 080 date=1083684897
    i guess i'm lucky because the bouncers at my club go out of thier way to try to talk the guy into paying up even threating to call the police. they actaully have called the cops and the cops said if he didnt pay he could go to jail for theft of services (lkinda like running out on a tab or hotel room rental)
    Velvet and I work at the same club and I can vouch for this. However, at our club you pay the house cut whether you got the money or not. If the management refused to assist and then stuck their hands out for the $5 cut (each) off of 20 dances, then we would have serious problems. Tampa, all three of us work in Florida and the specific legal term is "Theft of Services" (just like Velvet said). According to one of our bouncers, the cops will pursue this as long as your club records VIP dances (we have a bouncer in the VIP room counting dances and handling the music).

    I'm not a fan of collecting up front, but I'm surprised at how conciliatory Tigerlilly's methods appear to be. They might be quite effective, especially if you have the looks and personality to entice them into immediate payment. It's worth a go.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

  21. #46
    tampafldancer
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    hmm... they dont record every dance. I dont think they record it at all?

  22. #47
    tampafldancer
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    Default Re:400 dollors and "GET YOUR MONEY UP FRONT"

    but other dancers know how much time i spent with him giving dances

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