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Thread: Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

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    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    This thread is in reaction to an incident my roomate observed -

    She's a waitresses at an SC and the other night she watched this dancer working a guy. the guy was Mexican and spoke little English (I point this out to highlight how maybe cultural isolation contributed to this event) , and was obviously very drunk. With the stripper on his lap he starts to actually cry, telling her that he wants someone to love him. She says "Baby, I love you, come on, let's go to the VIP room" ($250 minimum to enter) They stand and he, still quite emotional and drunk, is still going on about how no one loves him, and he's thumping his chest and saying "I'm a man, I'm a man dammit!" She keeps reassuring him of his masculinity and pledging her love, all the while saying "Let's go to the VIP room, I'll show you how much i love you." My roommate DID NOT want to ring up $250 on this guy's card (not to mention whatever else she would have gotten from him once in the room) so she wouldn't ring him up -- of course the guy suddenly thinks that my roomie is somehow trying to screw him so someone else rushes over to ring the sale. Away they go, into the VIP room.

    Bear in mind that throughout this the guy is crying and talking about how no one loves him and still thumping his chest - does anyone else have a problem with this? Yes, there's working a guy for money, but there is a line between doing your thing well and manipulating someone who is obviously imparied (in more ways than one) - in my eyes what she did was worse than reaching into his pocket and stealing the money

    Am I being ignorant here? (as I have been elsewhere- lol) And this post was partly inspired by reading someone's profile - I thought it said they like to trick drunk guys out of their money but when I reread it I didn't see the word "trick" so maybe I read it wrong the first time.

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    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    i disagree. take responsability for your own actions. if hes so fucked up and emotional he shouldn't be drinking. ALSO, he shouldn't be in a strip club looking for love. if he wants to have his dick rubbed to make him feel better, fine, but not looking for love. its his own damn fault. the girl is just doing her job. i dont believe in protecting the stupid or the weak. let them die off, the sooner the better......

    besides, wheres the end of that story? what was he like when he came out of the VIP? what was he like the next day? dont condemn someone for doing there job well. when you walk through those doors, you're a customer, the girls aren't supposed to care about you regardless of wether or not you have problems.

    same goes with girls telling guys sob storries. i dont care. if a guy gets more milage because a girl is desperate for cash, so be it. hes not doing anything wrong. it works both ways. the weak and the stupid are supposed to ripped off and left to rot. thats life and evolution.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    I absolutely refuse to take someone like that to VIP or "take them for more money". Especially if they are saying that they "want to be loved". I am there for entertainment...companionship/friendship...and a little bit of "psychology" (letting customers talk about their problems). I will absolutely never tell a customer "I love you". In my eyes, you are now playing an emotional game in which everyone loses. Some of the girls I've talked to do this all of the time and then wonder why they get the "stalker" types. I make lots of cash from guys just out to have a great time. If a guy starts crying on my shoulder, I let him cry for a bit and then tell him that I need to do some rounds and I will come back to him. I'll keep coming back and saying hi and stuff...but, I just cannot bring myself to take advantage of someone's emotional "dishevelment". Not only does it feel wrong...but, it could cause some major headaches in the long run that make the $250 from that one night seem like nothing.

    No, thanks. I'll stick with the guys that are in their "right minds" and are spending money on me because they are out to have a good time and not looking for a lover.

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    Member TimidAngel's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    The guy (Or girl) had to take responsibility. IF they're in a strip club looking for love that's their fault. Sounds like he just lost his love and was looking to just relax, but seeing girls reminded him of his lost love. I've heard you should NEVER go to a strip club after breaking up with a girlfriend, it just makes you feel horrible. Any ways, it's their fault for falling for it, especially getting drunk. If they were sober they prolly wouldn't fall for the scam. I got some drunk guy who told me I was too gorgeous to be working there to get a lap dance. HE was blabbering about how much money he makes, and he was pretty drunk, so the drunker the better. Thats the ones girls usually aim for. IT's the way the industry works. For the most part at least
    ~*I am fast, foxy and in your face*~

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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    ATF didn't have to work me for money, we went to VIP from 2 to four hours at a time. One night, after a particularly bad business week
    on the road, I got to the club way early, and had a few too many at the start of the night before she was there, (and she arrived after 9 p.m.), mixed beer with hard drinks and champagne.
    Always bad for me to mix drinks.

    This was the only time in my entire life when I couldn't and shouldn't have driven back to the hotel. ATF took care of me. Told me she was disappointed that I drank too much, said I wasn't driving, took my keys, called a cab, and escorted me to the main club door
    made sure I got in the cab, handed me back the keys, kissed me good night. She said she was disappointed in me and to call her Monday.

    Now your wife would raise holy hell. In our subsequent after action report and debriefing, ATF said she was from the south and her first husband drank too much and went to honky tonks
    and she had to bail him out one time too many. My response was,
    "what is a honky tonk?" She fell off the couch laughing and said I was really different... which I took as a compliment.

    On the other hand she certainly let me know that she disapproved,
    even in a strip club and with her being a stripper and there with me the entire night more or less seeing I was drinking.

    Upon reflection, no woman wants a drunk, even a well paying drunk.
    I just had such a good time with her in that club that I over did it.

    Last time I did that was a freshman in college. I appreciated that ATF took care of me, and there were times after that that I took care of her and helped her out of a bad situation.

    While we communicate sometimes, I miss her.

    I've seen more drunks in the high class strip clubs than anywhere else. Not so much in smaller clubs. Soem of the worst drunks have been women customers. One night a woman who was blitzed walked into the dressing room, harrassed all the dancers and then walked in the mens room. When the bouncers took her outside she swung at both of them.

    Anyway, If you can, stop the customer from driving ... please. I think the club pre paid the cab fare one way to the hotel as part of policy.
    (Cuts down on the police arrest statistics in front of the club for drunk driving if you think about it. Good management policy.)


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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Niceguy link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104754#msg104 754 date=1083619303
    I think the club pre paid the cab fare one way to the hotel as part of policy.
    (Cuts down on the police arrest statistics in front of the club for drunk driving if you think about it. Good management policy.)
    Besides the fact that to pay a one-way cab fare looks good for the club...and it's only about $10 + a small tip....well, at least in the bigger cities.

    But, Niceguy...would you be more likely to go back to a club that DIDN'T take advantage of you in a low time and spend more money? There was one guy that was sloppy drunk and he latched onto me...but, I just felt wrong talking him into VIP. So, I did the chat and flee quite a bit with him throughout the night (and he ignored every other dancer). I didn't make much money off of him that night, but he came in two sundays ago and spent $700 on me. He comes to the clubs 2x's a month (when he's in town) and he said that as long as I am at that club, I'll be the only one he spends the money on.

    Sometimes, drunk guys belong in VIP...when they suggest it. But, "preying" on someone's "down and depressed" attitude (I love you...come to VIP, I'll show you how much I love you...) is just a selling technique that I'll pass on.

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    Veteran Member darkness's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    yah,customers can be quite disturbing!

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    Veteran Member Isis's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    I would have gotten away from that customer the first time he did the "I'm a man" thing

    that would signal to me that he might get violent

    combine that with the "no one loves me" stuff ..... sounds like a risk situation- too high risk






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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    The love you stuff is disturbing. On the night in question your honor, I was not dead drunk when I went in VIP. I was dead drunk when I came out of VIP. The amount of time we spent was standard if I was in town. usually from 10 p.m. to 2 a.m. sometimes to close.

    If she had alot of dances stacked up form being on stage it might be 11 p.m. start. On the night in question it was from about midnight to 3 a.m. because she got there late. Also a Saturday night didn't have as many girls working because Saturday would change to early 20's crowd instead of the normal business crowd the rest of the time.

    The amount of stage time would decline as more and more girls reported for work. The really young ones would get there by 10 p.m. and pay the highest fee.. but that meant central stage time was cut way back after 10 p.m. In this club you WANTED central stage exposure time.

    If I felt I was being taken advantage or I wouldn't return. There was no net change in the routine, except that I showed up at 5:00 thinking it was a 6 p.m. shift start.

    A somewhat atypical night. Three waitresses put on probation so I heard all about that. The Assistant manager arrested by the Sheirff
    the previous night inside another strip club. One of the bar tenders moving out and his girlfriend was a waitress. A raging thunderstorm outside. Club was packed with people, probably because of the horrible weather. People crashing into each others cars in the parking lot and they were arriving not leaving. The day shift dancers being held over. (You probably know what an uproar that causes) My rotten week of business.

    If you want to make an impression on a regular, being really nice
    tends to have a more lasting impression. She wasn't acting she really is nice. Hurt by relationships, but nice.

    You played it somewhat straight and got a regular.
    After awhile at least you like each other. Better than the alternative of not liking each other.

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    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by sander8son link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104743#msg104 743 date=1083618163
    i disagree. take responsability for your own actions. if hes so fucked up and emotional he shouldn't be drinking. ALSO, he shouldn't be in a strip club looking for love. if he wants to have his dick rubbed to make him feel better, fine, but not looking for love. its his own damn fault. the girl is just doing her job. i dont believe in protecting the stupid or the weak. let them die off, the sooner the better......

    besides, wheres the end of that story? what was he like when he came out of the VIP? what was he like the next day? dont condemn someone for doing there job well. when you walk through those doors, you're a customer, the girls aren't supposed to care about you regardless of wether or not you have problems.

    same goes with girls telling guys sob storries. i dont care. if a guy gets more milage because a girl is desperate for cash, so be it. hes not doing anything wrong. it works both ways. the weak and the stupid are supposed to ripped off and left to rot. thats life and evolution.
    So then tell me, by this logic would it be alright to swindle your grandmother out of her life savings? Would it be OK to trick a slightly retarded person out of their paycheck? Should we eliminate handicap spaces and ramps (they are, after all, the "weak") If I know a woman whose husband just died would it be OK to emotionally manipulate her so that I can sleep with her? If a mechanic wants to use sub-standard parts when he fixes your brakes, is that OK since it's your fault for not asking questions and checking the work? Aren't you advocating taking everything you can get away with?

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    God/dess Zofia's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    A cop regular once showed at the club drunk. He was loud and obnoxious. The situation could have gotten ugly. Drunks and guns are never a good combination. Throw in one very dumb bouncer and the situation could very easily have gotten out of hand. I called the Sector Sergeant on my cell and he hustled over to calm the situation. He got my regular out of the club without a major incident, and drove him home. The club manager and the bouncer were not happy with me calling the law, but didn't do much, just chewed me out. A couple of days later, the drunk's wife shows up. Now I figured I was in deep. But, she turned out to be very cool and thanked me for keeping her husband out of trouble. She also offered to pay me for the dances I would have gotten from him if I had danced for him instead of calling the SGT. She knew I could have cleaned him out. I turned her down. She then asked for some dances for herself. She became a pretty good customer too.

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    Member danhunt's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104863#msg104 863 date=1083630520
    She knew I could have cleaned him out. I turned her down. She then asked for some dances for herself. She became a pretty good customer too.
    That is sooo cool!!! Way to go!! The club should have given you a bonus instead of a reprimand.
    "Things turn out best for the people who make the best out of the way things turn out."

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    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    very cool Zofia

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    Member Synnove's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Personally, I don't think I could've taken advantage of a person in that condition. It wouldn't feel right to me. I wouldn't judge the girl for doing it though, simply because it's not my place. I guess I just have a lower threshold of pity for drunks.
    I may have put the oron in moron, but I didn't put the upid in dumb.

  15. #15
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    If you can't keep the score, don't play the game.

    Is it right to take advantage of a drunk person? No, but someone will. It's the nature of things.

    I bet most guys who would protest about ripoff dancers who clean out a drunk still wouldn't mind getting a huge chunk of extra milege when a dancer gets drunk. That stuff works both ways.

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    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104862#msg104 862 date=1083630334


    So then tell me, by this logic would it be alright to swindle your grandmother out of her life savings? Would it be OK to trick a slightly retarded person out of their paycheck? Should we eliminate handicap spaces and ramps (they are, after all, the "weak") If I know a woman whose husband just died would it be OK to emotionally manipulate her so that I can sleep with her? If a mechanic wants to use sub-standard parts when he fixes your brakes, is that OK since it's your fault for not asking questions and checking the work? Aren't you advocating taking everything you can get away with?
    the short answer. YES.

    i dont believe in handicap spaces. define "swindle"? if you get her to pay you money, so what? there was a comedian(think it was doug stanhope) who did a bit on old people. basically saying, they always argue with you and put you down, saying that in all their years they've gained so much wisdom...yet, then they cry that they were ripped off and are helpless and old. make up your mind. you're either wise or you're not. old and young, people get ripped off because they're stupid, not because of their age.

    why shouldn't you try to sleep with her? i mean, if you wanted to nail her, why not? just because someone who she loved has died means she can never have sex again? when is the cutoff between being wrong to sleep with her and right to sleep with her? its too arbitrary, the answer is, its always right. she has to make her own decisions.

    if i purchase new brakes and he installs old faulty breaks, then he's breaking the law. upon finding that the breaks were'nt as promised i have the right to demand recourse.

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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104862#msg104 862 date=1083630334
    So then tell me, by this logic would it be alright to swindle your grandmother out of her life savings? Would it be OK to trick a slightly retarded person out of their paycheck? Should we eliminate handicap spaces and ramps (they are, after all, the "weak") If I know a woman whose husband just died would it be OK to emotionally manipulate her so that I can sleep with her? If a mechanic wants to use sub-standard parts when he fixes your brakes, is that OK since it's your fault for not asking questions and checking the work? Aren't you advocating taking everything you can get away with?
    Weluckyfew-
    We cannot take the moral high-horse and condemn actions that don't fall into our own ethics/morality levels. By that kind of logic, it would be similar to advocating killing of all venomous snakes as they can kill people, or hunting down bears in areas where people go camping.

    Yes, there is evil in this world, as well as con-artists and manipulation. But they do play a part/role in our society. While we may each have our own unique measuring stick for our own morality levels, what disgusts us often times invokes an equal disgust by those on the opposite end of the coin. By the rationalized opinion of the other side, they would find someone that *didnt* take the drunk customer example for a ride as being an idiot and missing out. How can we simply declare our morality level as being "the one" or declare our standpoints to be somehow superior?

    Also, we can't place ourselves as the role of God or supreme ruler and judge those around us or the webs of fate/circumstance they may weave. We can't always forsee what the chains of fortune and misfortune build for an individual, and often times what we perceive to be horribly unacceptable one day pans out to be a valuable thing down the road. In so many ways, some of our most painful and tragic experiences provide us with depth, wisdom and savvy later in life. In the case of this given customer, a rude awakening of realizing the loss $250-$500 the day after could be a lot less harsh than some woman he might have instead called at a later date that robs him of all his credit cards and inflicts $5000-$10,000 damage. Had the initial lesson been bypassed, the wheels of fate may inflict greater damages. How can we be sure we're actually "saving" someone, rather than doing them a great disservice for a price nearly incomparable for such a lesson learned? Should we constantly deny those around us the advantage of making mistakes that we, ourselves, have learned? Did we actually listen to such advice ourselves? Likely not. Much is to be said from first hand experience versus declared circumstance.

    People that have gone through hell and horrible misfortune are often times much better people as the result. While my own morality level mirrors a more pure and noble ethic, I simply can't define my standards as best fit for everyone. Besides, the best way to advocate honor, trust, and valor is to lead by example and inspire from success.. not by preaching what is right and wrong... nor condemining someone that lives by a different creedo.

    The point being- we're all simply individuals, and aside from protecting others physical harm, endangerment or similar dangerous fortune, we can only bestow good reason/advice and plant the seeds of all possible outcomes.. further than that and we become no better than the one perpetrating what we find unacceptable.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Member Synnove's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    *hugs Polecat for saying everything I wanted to say and couldn't find words to express it*



    damn my simple HS education
    I may have put the oron in moron, but I didn't put the upid in dumb.

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    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Sand,
    I'll give you points for consistency, but my opinion remains unchanged. I love that you're against handicap parking spaces - god damned freeloading cripples!

    As far as the difference age makes, many old people don't have full mental capacity, it's a condition called being old. And that makes them easier prey for con artists, etc But of course if they're stupid and weak we should let them die off. The quicker they get swindled the better, then they won't be able to afford food and they'll die quicker and stop being mean to you. Which makes one wonder how you feel about these damn freeloading babies! Hey, if they can't figure out how to milk a cow that's their own damn problem.

    I worked with Stanhope, and he's very funny, but his bit is just that, a bit. Old people always"argue with you and put you down" ??? Really, what old people are those? Old people are nice to me. Maybe you should quit trying to get them to invest in your phony real estate venture and they'll be nicer to you - lol

    That said, on a tangent, I would agree that the senior citizen lobby is out of control with their demands i.e. being against the raising of the retirement age despite the fact that life expectancy keeps rising.

    <<<We cannot take the moral high-horse and condemn actions that don&#039;t fall into our own ethics/morality levels.>>>
    um....sure we can. If my best friend is wasted I&#039;m not going to let her get into a car with a stranger who was in the bathroom two seconds earlier talking about wanting to take her home and screw her brains out (assuming I know that my friend would not want to do this if sober/concious). Your arguments would be lovely in a college classroom but they strike me as rationalizing - by your logic couldn&#039;t I say "Sure I hit him over the head with a stick and stole his wallet, but for all you know the next guy would have shot him. I did him a favor." Hey, he was weak, if I didn&#039;t do it someone else would have, don&#039;t put your moral judgements on me. If you think it was OK for that girl to do what she did, fine, but don&#039;t act like she was doing him a favor.


    <<<While my own morality level mirrors a more pure and noble ethic, I simply can&#039;t define my standards as best fit for everyone. Besides, the best way to advocate honor, trust, and valor is to lead by example and inspire from success.. not by preaching what is right and wrong... nor condemining someone that lives by a different creedo. The point being- we&#039;re all simply individuals, and aside from protecting others physical harm, endangerment or similar dangerous fortune, we can only bestow good reason/advice and plant the seeds of all possible outcomes>>>

    Ah, so when i do it it would be preaching, when you do it it would be giving advice and planting seeds. I see. And you say I&#039;m on a moral-high-horse then say that YOUR own morality level "mirrors a more pure and noble ethic" -- ah, would that I could achieve your pure and noble ethic. Before you accuse me of being on a moral-high-horse remember that I posted here asking for opinions because i honestly wanted other points of view.

    I&#039;m not demanding that everyone live by my moral code, I&#039;m stating my limits and asking others what theirs are - I tease Sanderson for his position, which i disagree with, but I&#039;m not calling to have him strung from the yardarm, and I&#039;m not saying that he can&#039;t have that opinion.. And yes, their is personal responsibility, I&#039;m not advocating cradling everyone and treating them like babies.

    We seem to all agree (I think ) on the two extremes: it&#039;s ok to manipulate a stone-cold sober customer to spend money, but wrong to steal $20 from his wallet if he passes out. I&#039;m just exploring the gray area in between to see where people draw the line.

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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg105024#msg105 024 date=1083660503
    um....sure we can. If my best friend is wasted I&#039;m not going to let her get into a car with a stranger who was in the bathroom two seconds earlier talking about wanting to take her home and screw her brains out (assuming I know that my friend would not want to do this if sober/concious). Your arguments would be lovely in a college classroom but they strike me as rationalizing - by your logic couldn&#039;t I say "Sure I hit him over the head with a stick and stole his wallet, but for all you know the next guy would have shot him. I did him a favor." Hey, he was weak, if I didn&#039;t do it someone else would have, don&#039;t put your moral judgements on me. If you think it was OK for that girl to do what she did, fine, but don&#039;t act like she was doing him a favor.
    Unfortunately, I can tell debate with you will be a pointless exercise as every one of your points completed conflicts with all the given detail in my post.

    Somehow subjecting someone to the possibility of contracting HIV through unprotected sex or hitting someone over the head (assault) would fall under the category clearly given of "physical harm, endangerment, or dangerous fortune". I really fail to see any kind of parallel between death, injury and life threatening risk with losing $250. But I&#039;m sure it all sounded good while you feverishly replied to a non-entity.

    I can understand a flurry of wanting to rationalize one&#039;s point, but please do stick to the context of rebuttal from what&#039;s given, rather than grossly unrelated tangents.


    Ah, so when i do it it would be preaching, when you do it it would be giving advice and planting seeds. I see. And you say I&#039;m on a moral-high-horse then say that YOUR own morality level "mirrors a more pure and noble ethic" -- ah, would that I could achieve your pure and noble ethic. Before you accuse me of being on a moral-high-horse remember that I posted here asking for opinions because i honestly wanted other points of view.
    Once again, a very basic level of reading comprehension would dictate that my gist was it is pointless to take a "high-horse" approach, which in your example was clearly barring the activity from occurring. (i.e. your friend would not allow the person to go to VIP, and required a different cashier). The difference in approach, had you actually read the post, would have been suggestive to allow a decision to be made by the involved parties, rather than outward banning as given.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    God/dess Zofia's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by danhunt link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104938#msg104 938 date=1083640368
    Quote Originally Posted by Zofia link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg104863#msg104 863 date=1083630520
    She knew I could have cleaned him out. I turned her down. She then asked for some dances for herself. She became a pretty good customer too.
    That is sooo cool!!! Way to go!! The club should have given you a bonus instead of a reprimand.
    After a few weeks passed, and things were back to normal, the manager did tell me that "maybe I was right". But, he still didn&#039;t like it that I was so tight with the cops. The wife turned out to be a better customer than the husband ever was. I&#039;m a firm believer that what goes around, comes around, both the good and the bad. Someone, I don&#039;t know who, later tipped me off to an impending raid at the club. I called in sick and was spared a bunch of grief. Good karma gets good karma, bad karma gets bad.

    XOXO
    Z

  22. #22
    God/dess lestat1's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    I tend to agree with weluckyfew, although polecat has a valid point about imposing our personal ethics on others (though you also sound like a dangerous person to hang out with). Also keep in mind that making a sale based on a lie or false promise is not just an "underhanded tactic" but is also fraud and illegal.

    Let me turn this around. Polecat, I see a contradiction between your thoughts on that dancer&#039;s behavior being acceptable, and the behavior I think you find acceptable for customers in a strip club (my general feeling based on previous discussions, I could be wrong). Do you have a problem with a customer breaking a club&#039;s rules (instead following his own ethics), pushing a dancer&#039;s boundaries during a lap dance, lying about how much he plans to tip her, etc. ?
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

  23. #23
    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    <<<contracting HIV through unprotected sex or hitting someone over the head (assault) would fall under the category clearly given of "physical harm, endangerment, or dangerous fortune". I really fail to see any kind of parallel between death, injury and life threatening risk with losing $250.>>>

    My fault if i din&#039;t make myself clear (me, speak without thinking? Never!) What i was addressing was your argument that maybe it would have been good for him to get taken for $250 because maybe it&#039;ll prevent him from being taken for more. While that is possibly true, it has nothing to do with whether one agrees with her actions. If you agree with what she did, fine, but to say "Maybe she did him a favor" doesn&#039;t address the issue - she certainly wasn&#039;t doing it to be nice.

    In that context I stand by my analogy, if I think what she does is wrong I&#039;m not going to think it&#039;s OK because she may have taken less than someone else would have. yes i gave an extreme example of that philosophy but that example still stands - you can&#039;t justify a small wrong by saying someone else might have done a bigger one.

    And the analogy of protecting my drunk friend from having sex - you say it&#039;s different because it opens her up to disease. let&#039;s say i know the guy and know that he&#039;s obsessive about safe sex, that doesn&#039;tt change the situation. I wouldn&#039;t stand by and watch someone get insanely taken advatage of because they&#039;re drunk. The analogy stands because we&#039;re talking about whether I feel it&#039;s OK to somewhat "protect" someone who is drunk and imparied.

    <<<clearly barring the activity from occurring. (i.e. your friend would not allow the person to go to VIP, and required a different cashier). The difference in approach, had you actually read the post, would have been suggestive to allow a decision to be made by the involved parties, rather than outward banning as given.>>>

    She wasn&#039;t stopping it from happening, she was just refusing to participate - I think it&#039;s her right to refuse to participate in something she finds morally objectionable, i don&#039;t think that puts her on a "moral high-horse" -- or more to the point everytime someone refuses to do something they think is wrong they could be said to be on a moral high-horse, i don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything wrong with that

  24. #24
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    The lines here are clearly blurred. If someone feels ok with persuading a drunk Mexican into spending $250, then that is considered ok in America. However, with some people like myself, it is not okay. Some customers may have seen her do this, and it turned them off to her. Kharma. It is a less-than-honorable thing to do, imo. That&#039;s why I quit selling timeshare. As long as you deliver a similar product to the one you promise, it is not illegal, and it doesn&#039;t matter whether the customer is a genius or a retard, a millionaire or a pauper, a child or a retiree, or a drunk Mexican. Stat, I don&#039;t think this would be considered fraud or illegal. It is only selling to an impaired person, who agreed to go to VIP. If a drunk person goes in a clothing store and purchases clothes, is that illegal because the salesperson sold them to him? A little different than pure-out not paying for a service, or trying to feel-up a person who doesn&#039;t want to be touched. Now THAT&#039;S illegal. Sorry. However, this does not lead to repeat customers, or a good reputation. Selling a quality product instilled with value, following through with what you promise, being honest, giving good customer service, and never taking advantage, will. Business 101. It really does depend on your business ethics, but yes, kharma will even the score. I don&#039;t have to judge, the natural order of things will take care of it.




  25. #25
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Drunk customers -is there such a thing as crossing the line

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 link=board=27;threadid=8871;start=msg105075#msg105 075 date=1083683106
    I tend to agree with weluckyfew, although polecat has a valid point about imposing our personal ethics on others (though you also sound like a dangerous person to hang out with). Also keep in mind that making a sale based on a lie or false promise is not just an "underhanded tactic" but is also fraud and illegal.
    I&#039;m not condoning "underhanded tactics" and I&#039;m also not advocating an indifferent stance or inaction.

    To be clear, when I said "we" I was including myself, Weluckyfew, and anyone else that finds the behavior of the given dancer deplorable. Yes, trying to take advantage of someone inebriated is what I consider an unethical thing to do by my standards, but in the context of the given situation, it can also be looked at as being "part of the biz" by those that have a different line.

    I&#039;m also completely incapable of ever working any form of sales position. In sales, success is often times measured by one&#039;s ability to steer customers away from what they originally intended to buy and sell them a lesser brand/product that has higher commission or an added sales incentive/spiff. The best "salespeople" are those that can steer the most customers towards the spiff sale versus the lower commission sale. These kinds of people are different in my eyes, not inferior.

    In the context of a stripclub, does this make dancers that sell VIP/Champagne rooms immoral? In most all cases, there is no additional value for such upgrades, but they are what can make dancers utterly successful. It simply defines such people are of a "different" stuff, and if they can sleep with themselves and be happy with their actions, more power to them. I can&#039;t relate, but I&#039;m not going to push my own inability to sleep with such life decisions down their throat.

    Do you have a problem with a customer breaking a club&#039;s rules (instead following his own ethics), pushing a dancer&#039;s boundaries during a lap dance, lying about how much he plans to tip her, etc. ?
    Of course *I* have a problem with such tactics. Some people don&#039;t. I&#039;ve been in the position where I&#039;ve had to enforce against such tactics as well.

    My point being- enforcing those tactics had little effect... the same "problem children" return time and time again and have a whole new vigor towards their pursuit from the chiding. Forcing one&#039;s own moral code on others is rarely fruitful or productive as it usually has a stronger recoil.

    Alternatively, the PL that spends 4 minutes playing a contact tug-of-war with a dancer that flips between airdance and lapdance from an overly grabby customer only need see a nicer gentleman after him have the reverse battle of trying to keep his hands off her breasts/butt that she keeps placing there... and then goes over into the second song.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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