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Thread: Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

  1. #26
    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    Melonie,
    great point-- as mentioned earlier the Democracts have no right to bitch since they are patrons of the corrupt system as well.


    Madcap,
    I agree - especially now when there are so many states that are solidly Democratic or Republican your vote for president won't matter except in "batleground" states. I live in Texas and I'm voting for Nader - a vote for kerry (who i don't like anyway) wouldn't count for anything anyway. Add to this the redistricting that ensures soldily one-party congressional districts and evidence starts to add up that we are not such a democracy after all.

  2. #27
    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    <<<Blacks complained about criminals not being able to vote. Do the crime lose your vote. Isn&#039;t that the way things are?>>>
    That&#039;s a nice soundbite, but it doesn&#039;t address the point raised repeatedly on this board - there were thousands of names on those "criminal" lists by mistake. Katherine Harris&#039;s office was warned, by the company that compiled the lists, that they were rife with errors but they took no action. The NAACP sued and the State of Florida lost and is required to fix the errors on the voting rolls.
    <<<I vaguely remember from HS government class that if you are a felon you lose the right to vote. Doesn&#039;t make it racist.>>>
    Only seven states deny voting rights to all ex-felons - I say ex felons because these are people who have served their time. And despite the simplistic view of felons as hardened criminals (some are, certainly) a lot of these are people who made mistakes (how many were non-violent drug offenses?) when they were young and now 10, 20, 30 years later they still can&#039;t vote. Nationwide 1 in 8 black men have lost their voting rights for life.

    <<<How about the way Al Gore was fighting to keep the votes of Florida residents serving on Naval vessels votes from counting. >>>
    Can&#039;t defend the action of one by saying "Ya but look at what the other guy did." The Gore people followed the law and attempted to disqualify absentee military ballots that had no postmark or incorrect information. I think that&#039;s wrong, but then I think it was wrong to disqualify tens of thousands of ballots because of hanging chads, etc. If there were that many ballots in question they should have repeated the election there -- I think we should bend over backwards to ensure the voting rights of everyone who wishes to vote, it&#039;s the most fundamental right we have as Americans.

    <<<Also the ballots that were used in Florida were designed and approved by democrats.>>>
    Not designed by democrats, but a democrat approved them. I don&#039;t think it was a conspiracy that the ballots were confusing, but I do thing that they should have repeated the election (if possible, maybe it&#039;s not) or done everything possible to salvage ballots (i.e. don&#039;t throw away an entire ballot because of one error) when it became clear the ballots were confusing.

    <<<I wrote him at the time thanking him for the ballot design and handing the election to Bush.>>>
    wow, glad to see you so happy that democracy was thwarted and that your guy won because of mistakes.

  3. #28
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    Minor linguistic quibble Weluckyfew.

    Being a felon is a state in many ways comparable to being married in the eyes of the Catholic church. You are in that state unless another condition takes you out of the state such as a pardon or reversal of the conviction. Oliver North and Marc Rich (the guy pardon by Clinton) were both "convicted of felonies". Ollie got off on an appeal and Rich was pardoned. It is correct to say both were "convicted of felonies", although it is leaving a false impression in Ollie&#039;s case. Neither of those people is today a "felon". The only "ex-felons" are those pardoned.

    Just a technical point, go back to relevancies now.

  4. #29
    Senior Member ace_barker's Avatar
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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    You can&#039;t rerun the election in 1 state because people voted mistakenly. All the Nader people would have voted for Gore because their first choice was toast nationally and the same with Buchanon supporters. What about all the other close states? Do the same thing?
    I never heard about the naacp winning a court case? do you have a link?


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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    The whole your vote doesn&#039;t matter theory has one purpose:

    To discourage alot of people from even voting and controling elections that much more



  6. #31
    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ace_barker link=board=1;threadid=8926;start=msg107278#msg1072 78 date=1084152672
    You can&#039;t rerun the election in 1 state because people voted mistakenly. All the Nader people would have voted for Gore because their first choice was toast nationally and the same with Buchanon supporters. What about all the other close states? Do the same thing?
    I never heard about the naacp winning a court case? do you have a link?

    I have to grudgingly agree, maybe it would be impractical to rerun the election in just that one area....but then again, is there a line past which we should rerun the election? A huge number of ballots were disqualified, is there a point at which so many are disqualified that we should redo the election?

    And I gave incorrect information, NAACP didn&#039;t technically win the lawsuit because the state settled out of court, agreeing to, among other things, redo the voter rolls to put wrongly excluded names back on the lists.


    Scary thing is, doing a Google search brings up very little on this case, it recieved no media attention. After all, only talking about people&#039;s right to vote, it&#039;s not like it&#039;s anything important.


    As for Michael Moore, this letter to the NYTimes:

    To the Editor:

    You accuse the Walt Disney Company of cowardice and censorship because of its decision a year ago not to distribute Michael Moore&#039;s film "Fahrenheit 9/11" (editorial, May 6). In fact, the cowardly thing would have been to be intimidated into distributing the film. We did not block its distribution. There are many avenues for Mr. Moore to pursue to get his film distributed.

    Your accusations of stifling free expression are misplaced. The First Amendment does not say that The New York Times must print every article presented to it or that the Walt Disney Company must distribute every movie. If a government entity had blocked Mr. Moore&#039;s film from being released, that would have violated the First Amendment, and we would have quickly signed up to join any protest.

    In the case of "Fahrenheit 9/11," we chose a path that was right for the company and its stakeholders.

    The creation of intellectual product rises and falls on similar judgments by creative people and executives across America. We would hope that The Times would recognize that the Walt Disney Company has the same right of freedom of expression that it is advocating for Mr. Moore.

    MICHAEL D. EISNER
    Chief Exec., Walt Disney Company
    Burbank, Calif., May 7, 2004

  7. #32
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:Just when you thought that you were safe from Columbine ...

    Weluckyfew,
    I share your frustration. When I tried to search on cases filed by the ACLU and NAACP in Florida, all I could find were Court Documents of appeals for cases summarily thrown out of court and appeals summarily rejected along with a few cases settled out of court. The suing parties love to announce the suit with great fanfare, and hide when they go nowhere. Then ploemic writers restate some of the allegations of the suit and inflate the claims by factors of 2 or 3.

    As for Eisner&#039;s letter, let me translate it. "If we had distributed it we might have made $20 million pre-tax and our stock market value would have gone down $200+ mil because Wall Street would have thought we were nuts for releasing a blatantly political movie in a political year. It does not pay to see cartoons of Michael Moore in Mouse ears and devalue our brand."

    Actually, I thought you were trying to scare us by quoting Eisner saying something intelligent for a change.

    As for the election, throw in the networks telling western Florida voters there was no point going to the polls because Florida had gone to Gore. One cannot change the rules of an election after the fact, no matter what.

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