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Thread: The Perfect Club

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default The Perfect Club

    All of us seem to be feeling the pinch of dissatisfaction lately. Club owners demanding more of dancers and customers both, customers being scarce or wallet-huggers, dancers with bad attitudes and going to any lengths to make their rent, someone always expecting something or putting out a hand to be greased. How would YOU change that? If you owned your idea of the perfect club, what would it be like? Feel free to include as much detail as possible, especially on topics such as:

    Maximizing profits. Outline how you would operate your business model and what you might do differently.

    Managing the talent. What sort of dancer rules will there be, and what is expected of them?

    Customer base. What is your target clientele, and how are you going to keep them coming back for more?
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    I like the way that VIP's is run overall. I think that they maximize the profits (from what I have seen). There is not much that I would change, because the things that I WANT to change are in place due to local ordinances and laws (customers who buy the girls drinks must give the money to the girl via her garter and the girl then gives the money to the bartender/waitress). The one thing that I do not like is that the club charges the DANCERS 25% processing fee to turn in funny money. Since our club does not have an ATM, a lot of our money is in funny money. Hence, if you turn in $1000 in funny money, then you only walk out with $750. You can use the funny money for tip-out...worth it's full value (tipping out the DJ $20 in funny money would be worth $20). At my club, I would not charge the dancers such a high percentage. Maybe 10%. In addition, the customers also get charged a 10% fee to get funny money (so a total of $100 in funny money, would be charged as $110, etc.). It would still be a gown club...no contact (again, ordinances). I would have a dining area available...some of our customers leave because they want to get something to eat...so that would be a nice addition (then they can take the dancer to "dinner" without the dancer having to meet the customer outside of work...all the while being compensated for her time).

    Lord, I could go on and on...but, I have to think about this a little more.

    Good post, though.

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    Veteran Member Nina's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Wow Lilith I've wanted to post but need some time to gather my thoughts.......I'll be back!
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    "Acceptance is right. Kindness is right. Love is right. I pray, right now, that we're moving into a kinder time when prejudice is overcome by understanding; when narrow-mindedness, and narrow-minded bigotry is overwhelmed by open-hearted empathy; when the pain of judgmentalism is replaced by the purity of love"
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    IMHO this is a pointless question, because with today's club market and business conditions any "Perfect Club" from a dancer's point of view would not be financially viable from a clubowner's point of view.

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    With all due respect, Melonie, I believe that you're wrong and a killjoy. The dancer and owner's aims are not so at odds that nothing could ever be done to ensure that all are benefited. At the very least, some changes could be implemented for the mutual satisfaction of all parties. Perfection is not achievable, but in these trying times it is pleasant to think about- and that was my point.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    I also think owners/mgmt are usually the main cause of the downfall of most clubs. When things get tight, instead of trying to gouge everyone they can (dancers AND customers), if they would implement changes that could benefit everyone instead, things would be alot better all around.

    Use a freakin dancer cap for chrissakes! There is NO need to have, for example, 18 girls on shift when 10 is enough. Don't hire every damn skank who appears at the door just to get her measly $25 tipout (as in the case of Divas PR lately). Have a set number for every shift, and when that many girls show up, CUT IT OFF. Don't let the primadonnas who straggle in at 10pm work if you're at the limit. They are annoying bitches anyway.

    Don't get greedy with the tipout structure. I learned that my current club used to have a standard tipout structure of 5% to the bar and 5% to the DJ, on top of same house fees and doorman tip. Mgmt got greedy and changed it to 10% to staff pot, of which mgmt now takes the largest cut, and divides the rest to bar and DJ. That only generates anymosity among staff who begin to demand more from the dancers to make up the difference. So in the end the dancers wind up paying more to keep everybody placated, as a result of mgmt greed. It would be the same if mgmt simply raised the tipout standard directly to get a cut. Either way it's gouging the dancers. (I came along after this change, but it was fairly recent and most girls are still a bit chaffed by it.)

    Set dance prices that are reasonable for all involved, post the price, and attempt to enforce it across the board. Set song length and ENFORCE IT. No girl should be playing Stairway to Heaven or some such nonsense, and no DJ should let that crap go on for the girls doing lapdances - or the customers who get bored seeing the same damn girl on stage forever. A 6 minute song equates to a 2for1 lapdance or several bored stage-tippers. No song in a SC should EVER go over 3:30. Period. If the mgr has to set PCDJ to stop every song at 3:30, so be it.

    Let the dancers/staff get a glass of water or soda over the bar for FREE. The cost is insignificant and the result of having workers who don't feel bitter at having to pay customer price for a drink of water is worth MUCH more.

    Have an ATM in the club, keep the fees reasonable, and don't set the blasted withdrawal limit at $100. Alot of guys don't want to use funny money for several reasons, and many want to get more than $100 without having to repeat the withdrawal process.

    Have funny money available, and charge a REASONABLE fee for it. 20-25% is TOO MUCH. If you must charge that much, then split it between customers and dancers - 10% to each. That is plenty to cover processing costs and the occasional chargeback. Anything more is plain gouging and pisses people off.

    Pay the freakin staff a reasonable amount. Don't reduce them to scrapping for dollars from everyone they see, or watching the floor for dropped bills rather than what they're supposed to be watching.

    Enforce the rules equally, across the board. Don't let Suzie Bitch run over everyone - dancers, staff or customers. If some chick can't follow the rules like everyone else, kick her out. I have NEVER seen a girl who couldn't be replaced. Period.


    These are just a few I can think of right now. There are others which I'm sure I or someone will post later.


    >>Added: Treat staff and dancers with a modicum of respect and humanity. The #1 biggest problem an SC can have is mistreated and/or pissed off workers. They will transfer those feelings to customers, which in turn will RUN OFF the customers. Happy workers leads to happy customers, who will come back.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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  7. #7
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Bridgette, you're one of my very favorites here, and I agree with most of what you've written, but I can't buy into the 3:30/song tops, no exceptions.

    1. I wouldn't be motivated to buy as many dances.
    2. I've had too many times when a dancer has looked at me, eyes half-closed, smiling very sweetly, and saying, "Oh, good... this is a long song." Yeah, maybe that's just BS, but I like hearing it.
    3. I've had dancers say, "Wait, let's not start yet. This dance is too short."
    4. $20 for a 3:30 song works out to 17 songs per hour, or a paying rate for the customer of $340/hour.

    Now, don't get me wrong - I'm all for every American maximizing their income. But very short songs every time reduce customer satisfaction and run the risk (in my case, the certainty) of keeping them from buying.

    And let's have reasonable bar prices while we're at it.

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    Veteran Member Isolabella's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Bridgette!
    I've never worked at a club where they kept track of our dances, or tipout was based on percentages. Seems like it would come in handy on bad nights, but would be considerably higher than the norm of $35 where I work on an average night. I wonder if that makes me one of those people who, when (ok if) I become a millionaire, would also bitch about higher taxes. lol

    I agree on the song time limit. Ours are only 3 min at $25 each, which is great, but another 30 seconds wouldn't kill us, and the last 15 could often be used for dj commentary.

    Love the dancer cap idea, on non-scheduled girls who straggle in.

    Never heard of funny money. Guessing the psychology behind that is it's easier to part with. "Funny I had a money when I came in here" lol

    Anyway, we have free sodas and water for girls. But reading this sure shows me the vast differences in clubs in different areas, cause I'd be talking about fewer costume restrictions, and not hiring back girls who get busted for whatever reasons. Like you said:




    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113152#msg113 152 date=1085340718
    I have NEVER seen a girl who couldn't be replaced. Period.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Time is a precious currency. Don't waste your own, or steal it from others. No matter how much you think they have, or how little value you give them. - Me http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=isolabella

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    Veteran Member Nina's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    One thing I take into consideration is that there are a lot of club mngrs that lurk on this board. THey may not take all or even 10% of the suggestions offered here, but the 1 change that they do make may make a big difference in making a happier work environment.......
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    Janet Jackson

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    One thing I take into consideration is that there are a lot of club mngrs that lurk on this board. THey may not take all or even 10% of the suggestions offered here, but the 1 change that they do make may make a big difference in making a happier work environment
    Well, lets pretend that a clubowner is reading this thread and wants to try a few changes suggested ... but WITHOUT the club losing money.

    #1 - limit girls per shift from 18 to 10

    Hey no problem - I'll just double the stage fees or increase the club's percentage of private dances so the club makes the same amount from 10 girls as it would have from 18 girls. I'm sure that the 10 dancers will understand why I need to do that ...

    #2 - Have funny money available, and charge a REASONABLE fee for it. 20-25% is TOO MUCH. If you must charge that much, then split it between customers and dancers - 10% to each.

    OK I can do that ... IF each dancer will agree to wait 14 days between the time she turns in her funny money and the time I give her cash once the credit card funds are actually transferred to the club's merchant account. and IF each dancer will agree that she will be paid nothing at all if her customer's credit card charge bounces back, and IF each dancer agrees to hand me $500 of her own money to hold in escrow in the club safe to cover the possibility that her customer successfully requests a refund or takes the club to court several weeks/months down the road long after I have paid her in cash for her funny money.





  11. #11
    Veteran Member Nina's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Certain requests just may not be implemented.....But lets take one of the clubs I work at for example.....

    The club gets a lot of business at night...But the very young, and rowdy customers that it attracts don't tip well..... They buy a few drinks, tip the stage and spend a reasonable amount on dances but V.I.P's and bartender tips and bar sales are kinda low.

    My suggestion is to hire a better calibre of girls, and in fact train the ones you have in some basic dancers ettiquette, and offer more contest incentives for selling V.I.P's and champagne botttles.

    For instance 1 free week of barfee for Highest V.I.P. and or Champagne sales.

    Now how do you get the girls to sell it? Obviously provide a few examples for the girls of ways to upsell on drinks etc. Since many of these women are focused on selling dances instead of V.I.p. or bottles they need some incentive AND training to do anything different to help the club..... I'm constantly asked by dancers how I sell so many V.I.P. rooms (after being accused of prostitution of course!), and my basic answer is that I ask every customer for one---You'd be amazed at how many incredulous looks I get and then they say "really, you just ask everyone?!?"

    So many dancers don't know how to make the club or themselves money, and with a little bit of effort managers can really maximize their profits (and their personal bonuses).

    YOu invest some time and effort in the girls to teach them to make your club more money instead of trying to get it from the girls which pisses them off, increases your turnover rate (not good for some clubs)..........for instance I worked at Mickey D's as a teen and we noticed a HUGE increase in sales once we started asking "would you like fries with that?" - or " Can I supersize that for you?"

    Another issue at this particular club is that dancers don't have any costume or music guidelines...... If the manager expects to attract a higher calibre customer as they claim , then a constant parade of ditzy 21 y.o. in bikini's that offer no conversation, grace or social skills just isn't gonna keep the older more cultured spenders in....That should be obvious by the fact that they all leave when the night shift girls come in. The loud aggresive music, the inexperienced dancers and the customers that they attract are sending the customers that mangement SAYS they want to attract out of the club...Establish a no bikinis before 12 rule or a gown night....You'd be suprised what an elegant dress will do for a womans attitude, in turn attracting an audience appreciative of that type of thing who statisically spend more $$$.


    Mngmt might not listen to me (just another dumb dancer) in person, but coming from a supposed neutral source such as the internet he can "come up with an idea" all on his own that doesn't rub his ego the wrong way.

    Each club has different issues, and each dancer will have a different take on the subject, but since we spend a great deal of time voiceing our complaints, and we all know them well by now, I welcome the opportunity to voice our proposals for change.....Esp. since we so rarely get to voice them to an open audience IN the club.

    Obviously for a huge club in a huge city vs. a small club in a small town the suggestions and ideals will be different.
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    Janet Jackson

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    Veteran Member Nina's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    WEll it's a definte that 75-90% of the mngrs may view it the way you've laid it out..... but for the other 25-10% it could go something like this1 - limit girls per shift from 18 to 10[/i]
    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113252#msg113 252 date=1085366516

    #1 - limit girls per shift from 18 to 10
    O.K I'll limit it to 10 girls ---- the 8 girls who make the least amount for the club will have to go...SO instead of charging an extra $40 in bar fee, we will implement a plan to increase each girls V.i.P, funny money or drink sales by $40.--- Let's face it the extra 8 girls are gonna leave anyway 'cause they aren't making good $$, the girls I keep are a bit more relaxed and able to sell better, and the customers aren't being approached too much...Also provides incentive for the remaining dancers to stay on their toes since they are more easily replaced instead of just added to. Also


    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113252#msg113 252 date=1085366516
    #2 - Have funny money available, and charge a REASONABLE fee for it. 20-25% is TOO MUCH. If you must charge that much, then split it between customers and dancers - 10% to each.

    OK I can do that ... IF each dancer will agree to wait 21 days between the time she turns in her funny money and the time I give her cash once the credit card funds are actually transferred to the club's merchant account. We will also take more proactive safety measures such as photocopying drivers liscenses.......We'll offer larger incentives for cash using customers "HEy man we have an ATM around the bar, you pay cash or use this debit machine here and your drinks on me bud" Installing a better camera system to prevent fraudulent chargebacks (can anyone say $28,000?) and instructing our bar/wait staff on proper proceders and common fraud practices.......


    I am admittidly no expert on c.c. fraud, but there may be someone else on this board who is and hopefully open dialogue will bring that persons input to the table.

    EVery change we think ought to be instituted may not be, but this world has become what it is through small changes, and being open to possibility and potential.

    Someone, somewhere has figured out how to make this damned business work well and I want you to come out and share it with us!
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    "Acceptance is right. Kindness is right. Love is right. I pray, right now, that we're moving into a kinder time when prejudice is overcome by understanding; when narrow-mindedness, and narrow-minded bigotry is overwhelmed by open-hearted empathy; when the pain of judgmentalism is replaced by the purity of love"
    Janet Jackson

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    Featured Member CrescentLuna's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    How about, and I only know of one club that has done this [DancerWealth trained the entire club], but actually implement dancer training - doesn't have to be something specific as DancerWealth or another of the seminars we have on here, but something? Even a walk-through by a [good] dancer would be helpful.
    I see this so much, girls on boards here or on livejournal, or in my club, that start exotic dancing and have no clue. Not bashing newbies, I was the same way and still have a ton to learn! I thought I'd definitely only want the stage, because the stage is glamorous, when in actuality, it's the VIP room I'm good at and is where you make money!
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    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Luna, I was about to suggest the same thing.

    Offer training to dancers (new and veterans who are new to the club) which are similiar in structure to DancerWealth ... and specific for the club.

    Also, with the training... offer it for a small fee ($100?) with a bonus thrown in (discount voucher to use at a local dancer attire store, etc). Don't know why but people regard information they pay for more valuable than "free" information.

    Those dancers who do not do the training... speak to them to see why they won't do it. Try and encourage them to do it.

    A club that offers something like the DancerWealth training once a month (or whenever is viable) will do well as it will attract the right type of dancers (in my opinion). Then in turn increase the money for the club because the dancers are selling more.



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    Veteran Member Isolabella's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    After re-reading the dancer cap part, I should clarify my agreement. I guess it depends on the club. Though I'm quite comfortable with 30+ girls where I work, it does get a little out of hand when there's over 50, not to mention our dressing room is cramped at 30. Never worked at a club with a cap, so I can't really offer an informed opinion. I bet if I'd ever been turned away due to this, I'd be against it though. lol

    Luna, if only I'd had some dancer training. I did "The Butt" my first night, and it wasn't "sexy sexy"!

    "ain't nothin' wrong, if ya wanna do the butt, all night long..." it's stuck in my head now.
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Give good dancers incentives - give them a reason to be professional, treat customers well, and bring in repeat business. For instance, give girls cards to hand to customers. Give the dancer some sort of reward, like a lowered house fee, when a customer uses a card she's given him at the door. Reward sales of VIP rooms. At my club, we get nothing extra for taking a customer into VIP, but the club gets the additional cover he pays. Therefore, I have no real incentive to talk customers into going back there.

    Don't reward unprofessional behavior. If you're going to have club rules, enforce them. If everyone follows the rules, and those that don't have the behavior nipped in the bud, there can be no bitching about "dirty dancers" and fighting over what is or isn't acceptable.

    Make sure your security staff isn't made up of guys who are itching to pick a fight every Saturday night. Their job is to remove trouble from the club, not perpetuate it.

    Make shifts shorter. Six hours should be the maximum required length for a shift. Of course, if dancers want to work longer, they should be allowed to.

    Turn down the damn music. We need to be able to hear each other.

    I'm sure I can think of a very long list in addition to this. I love some of the ideas I'm reading here.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Actually Nina I agree with you. Returning to a mid-90's scenario where clubowners were willing to pass up short term profits in order to "invest" in their club in hope of long term returns, combined with dancers who were professional and who were also willing to "invest" several weeks or months of reduced earnings in hope of long term returns, used to work rather well ! However, with today's economy, the corporate clubs have mortgage payments and investor dividends to pay every month such that they're not willing to forego short term profits in exchange for better long term returns. Also, in today's economy, girls who are professionals and who have the ability to be hired in just about any upscale club and earn $500+ a night are not going to be willing to keep working for $200-$300 a night for several weeks or months while the club builds reputation and clientele - especially if some other dancers are using high contact and/or "extras" to entice customers away from them.

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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113128#msg113 128 date=1085336430
    IMHO this is a pointless question, because with today's club market and business conditions any "Perfect Club" from a dancer's point of view would not be financially viable from a clubowner's point of view.
    I dont just agree with this,I know it to be fact.

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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113152#msg113 152 date=1085340718
    I also think owners/mgmt are usually the main cause of the downfall of most clubs. When things get tight, instead of trying to gouge everyone they can (dancers AND customers), if they would implement changes that could benefit everyone instead, things would be alot better all around.

    Use a freakin dancer cap for chrissakes! There is NO need to have, for example, 18 girls on shift when 10 is enough. Don't hire every damn skank who appears at the door just to get her measly $25 tipout (as in the case of Divas PR lately). Have a set number for every shift, and when that many girls show up, CUT IT OFF. Don't let the primadonnas who straggle in at 10pm work if you're at the limit. They are annoying bitches anyway.


    I agree with quality over numbers.BUT,customers would rather pay to see 20 girls then just 10,thats your customers point of view.
    Mgrs and owners want to see more girls,they get more customers,they make more money,thats their point of view.
    Get it right,its only the entertainers who want fewer entertainers.


    Don't get greedy with the tipout structure. I learned that my current club used to have a standard tipout structure of 5% to the bar and 5% to the DJ, on top of same house fees and doorman tip. Mgmt got greedy and changed it to 10% to staff pot, of which mgmt now takes the largest cut, and divides the rest to bar and DJ. That only generates anymosity among staff who begin to demand more from the dancers to make up the difference. So in the end the dancers wind up paying more to keep everybody placated, as a result of mgmt greed. It would be the same if mgmt simply raised the tipout standard directly to get a cut. Either way it's gouging the dancers. (I came along after this change, but it was fairly recent and most girls are still a bit chaffed by it.)


    well,i survive by what entertainers tip out.I dont expect an entertainer to tip out the dj 100 bucks every night,but 5 dollars???10 dollars???Thats not even enough money for a cd for him to play for you when you ask him for the hottest new song on the radio.
    The dj wants more girls on rotation,because of the entertainers who only tip 5%.same with the door and anyone else who lives off tips at your club.
    As for the house fee,well,if its more then your making,your in the wrong club.
    If you make 1000 a night and the tip out is 200,you still walk with 800.If you make 300 a night and the tip out is 200,theres a problem and its not the tip out.If all the other girls make money and your not,time to look for a new club.
    Clubs with high tipouts tend to be the nice clubs in any given area.You pay to work,if your paying alot of money and your not happy with your surroundings,again,time to shop for a new club.


    Set dance prices that are reasonable for all involved, post the price, and attempt to enforce it across the board. Set song length and ENFORCE IT. No girl should be playing Stairway to Heaven or some such nonsense, and no DJ should let that crap go on for the girls doing lapdances - or the customers who get bored seeing the same damn girl on stage forever. A 6 minute song equates to a 2for1 lapdance or several bored stage-tippers. No song in a SC should EVER go over 3:30. Period. If the mgr has to set PCDJ to stop every song at 3:30, so be it.

    we agree.Most songs should be cut between 3-3:30.That keeps the lapdances at the same amount of time.I dont think a club wants to refund everyones money because they are pissed their lap dance song lasted 3 mins and the very next song last 6.
    alot of new girls would be dancing on stage to stairway to heaven and stranglehold while the veterans were in the back making money!
    song limits keep it fair for all.



    Let the dancers/staff get a glass of water or soda over the bar for FREE. The cost is insignificant and the result of having workers who don't feel bitter at having to pay customer price for a drink of water is worth MUCH more.


    Inventory control.People steal.If you think only the employees will be getting things for free your wrong.any club who doesnt count every bottle and can,and at least "point"their booze bottles is going to go broke soon and be out of business.
    wait till you have a waitress who drinks 47 cokes a night.Its bullshit,she sells them to customers for 5 bucks when she got it free,see my point??
    make the entertainers pay for their drinks!!!!!!!
    Maybe some will keep a friggin count of what they drink.I love an entertainer who cant make tipout because she has a 150 dollar bar tab!!!
    If your an entertainer,get your customer to buy you a drink.It may even make you feel like you made a little bit of money for the club and not just yourself.



    Have an ATM in the club, keep the fees reasonable, and don't set the blasted withdrawal limit at $100. Alot of guys don't want to use funny money for several reasons, and many want to get more than $100 without having to repeat the withdrawal process.


    Its one way a club makes money,and also protects itself.Its a standard limit.First off,most atm's are owned by the club,they charge 5-7 dollars per withdrawl.
    after the cover charge and the drink or two,how does the club make money off a customer who can be there for 3-4 hours???I have seen customers who milk a beer for 8 hours!!
    2nd,it helps in the lawsuits the clubs get from guys who spend their life savings and want to sue!If the atm's in casino's have a limit,why not the ones in gentlemens clubs?



    Have funny money available, and charge a REASONABLE fee for it. 20-25% is TOO MUCH. If you must charge that much, then split it between customers and dancers - 10% to each. That is plenty to cover processing costs and the occasional chargeback. Anything more is plain gouging and pisses people off.


    you must know that clubs are charged thousands of dollars a month on credit cards that are denied payment because the guy wakes up the next day and figures out he cant spend 2000 in one night.
    I dont have the actual stats,clubs are different,but i would guess they really only get 5-10% after its all said and done if they charge 20-25% up front.


    Pay the freakin staff a reasonable amount. Don't reduce them to scrapping for dollars from everyone they see, or watching the floor for dropped bills rather than what they're supposed to be watching.


    why???
    If i can get my yard mowed cheaper and done the same by someone who is willing to do it for less money then the next guy......
    simple law of supply and demand.
    MOST mgrs make less then the bartenders.
    If its so bad,why is it so easy to fill positions in this industry???




    Enforce the rules equally, across the board. Don't let Suzie Bitch run over everyone - dancers, staff or customers. If some chick can't follow the rules like everyone else, kick her out. I have NEVER seen a girl who couldn't be replaced. Period.

    true,but there are exceptions to every rule,and veteran entertainers who have worked hard for you over the years deserve a little lee way IMO.


    These are just a few I can think of right now. There are others which I'm sure I or someone will post later.


    >>Added: Treat staff and dancers with a modicum of respect and humanity. The #1 biggest problem an SC can have is mistreated and/or pissed off workers. They will transfer those feelings to customers, which in turn will RUN OFF the customers. Happy workers leads to happy customers, who will come back.
    sorry,I dont mean to sound harsh,but bullshit!!!!
    Cold beer and hot females will keep them comming back.
    Most employees last 6 months in this business.This aint MacDonalds.

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    Hey big green
    No matter what they teach you, what you believe is true......

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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    I dont just agree with this,I know it to be fact.
    Please feel free to elaborate, BigGreen. Many girls here appear to doubt the validity of my points and probably suspect I'm covering butt for greedy clubowners (which I definitely am not !)

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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    First off I'd like to say that you display the typical nasty attitude of most clubowners and managers which eventually causes the downfall of the very clubs they're so vehemently trying milk. Try getting over the unfounded idea that dancers are all stupid and quit thinking of us as adversaries. We are the ones in the trenches dealing with the customers on a minute by minute basis, NOT YOU. We see and hear umpteen times a day what the customers want. Furthermore, I sense from your tone that you are relatively new to the biz. Perhaps a bit of general learning and occasionally listening to what those in the trenches have to say would be in order.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113461#msg113 461 date=1085422090
    I agree with quality over numbers.BUT,customers would rather pay to see 20 girls then just 10,thats your customers point of view.
    Mgrs and owners want to see more girls,they get more customers,they make more money,thats their point of view.
    Get it right,its only the entertainers who want fewer entertainers.
    No. In a club that can only support 10 dancers (and I mean anymore than 10 and EVERY girl's earnings fall), customers aren't paying to see 20, they're paying to see 10. Period. Mgrs only want more girls because it means increased tipouts. Period. If you do a proper study, I'll bet money you'll find that when the dancer/customer ratio raises above a certain point, overall earnings drop or at least don't increase, save for the increase in house fees. Customers are ONLY going to spend so much money per night, period. Having more girls doesn't equate to more customers. I have NEVER seen that work out, EVER. I have worked ALOT of clubs over the years.

    Furthermore, when the dancer/customer ratio is too high, it forces girls to be more aggressive, which generally turns out to be a bad thing for EVERYONE. Customers don't like getting hit up for dances every 10 seconds. They LEAVE when that happens, and take their money with them. I have seen it over and over and over and over and over. Of course YOU are too busy counting your house fees to notice.

    well,i survive by what entertainers tip out.I dont expect an entertainer to tip out the dj 100 bucks every night,but 5 dollars???10 dollars???Thats not even enough money for a cd for him to play for you when you ask him for the hottest new song on the radio.
    So in order for DJ to play the latest Britney song, a dancer has to tip him to buy the CD every single night? Whatever. In a club with 40 girls, $10 from each girl is $400. I reckon that's plenty for DJ to buy that Britney CD plus a couple more every night, plus have enough left over for a very decent living if he manages to retain enough from his trips to the after hours bar and/or drug dealer in his never-ending quest to screw every dancer in the club.

    Most dancers I've known bring in their own CDs or will dance to whatever is played. With the ever-increasing use of computerized systems and PCDJ, it's becoming less and less necessary for a DJ to buy ANY music at all. Your statement doesn't hold much water. Oh and remember the dancers also have to buy clothes, shoes, makeup, tanning, gym memberships, hair skin and nail care, etc - out of the money they take home. DJ and club aren't the only ones with an investment to make.

    The dj wants more girls on rotation,because of the entertainers who only tip 5%.same with the door and anyone else who lives off tips at your club.
    They all want more girls on rotation because they are greedy. Plain and simple. More girls on rotation = more girls to extort from.

    As for the house fee,well,if its more then your making,your in the wrong club.
    I have never had trouble paying my house fees and tipouts, thank you. A little research before you start slinging wild accusations might be in order.

    If you make 1000 a night and the tip out is 200,you still walk with 800.If you make 300 a night and the tip out is 200,theres a problem and its not the tip out.If all the other girls make money and your not,time to look for a new club.
    Clubs with high tipouts tend to be the nice clubs in any given area.You pay to work,if your paying alot of money and your not happy with your surroundings,again,time to shop for a new club.
    Yeah, see previous response. Although I will say that if most of the girls are making 300 a night and fees are 200, the fees very well ARE a problem, among other things.

    we agree.Most songs should be cut between 3-3:30.That keeps the lapdances at the same amount of time.I dont think a club wants to refund everyones money because they are pissed their lap dance song lasted 3 mins and the very next song last 6.
    alot of new girls would be dancing on stage to stairway to heaven and stranglehold while the veterans were in the back making money!
    song limits keep it fair for all.
    Right on.


    Inventory control.People steal.If you think only the employees will be getting things for free your wrong.any club who doesnt count every bottle and can,and at least "point"their booze bottles is going to go broke soon and be out of business.
    If that's true I find it amazing so many bars have managed to stay in business so long while offering their entertainers free tap water and soda over the bar.

    wait till you have a waitress who drinks 47 cokes a night.Its bullshit,she sells them to customers for 5 bucks when she got it free,see my point??
    47 cokes???? WOW I'm amazed your waitresses are able to spend any time at all on the floor! They must have some SERIOUSLY strong bladders! I'm thinking the number is probably closer to 10 or under. What does that REALLY cost you? A few cents? Somehow I find it hard to sympathize.

    make the entertainers pay for their drinks!!!!!!!
    Maybe some will keep a friggin count of what they drink.I love an entertainer who cant make tipout because she has a 150 dollar bar tab!!!
    I'm sure you do. Imagine why people might be more inclined to steal from you, and less inclined to work WITH you to make money.


    If your an entertainer,get your customer to buy you a drink.It may even make you feel like you made a little bit of money for the club and not just yourself.
    Most of the time I do, thank you. However, even for us veterans who know how to play the game, there is the occasional instance where we don't have a customer to buy us a drink and we could use a glass of water! Here's an idea: Sign up on one of the local water company plans where they install a water cooler FREE and bring all the water jugs you can use for a measly $20 a month. That's a pretty cheap deal if you ask me, for a clubful of dancers that would feel just THAT much better about working in your establishment. How much is it worth to you NOT to have a clubful of dancers who are bitter at not even being able to get a damn drink of water without being gouged?

    Let them pay for their alcohol. That is different.


    Its one way a club makes money,and also protects itself.Its a standard limit.
    Whose standard? So you'd rather limit what the customers can withdraw to $100, rather than let them withdraw whatever they want or can - even when you know those guys WON'T use funny money? Doesn't make much sense to me.

    First off,most atm's are owned by the club,they charge 5-7 dollars per withdrawl.
    Yeah, I know. Your point is?

    after the cover charge and the drink or two,how does the club make money off a customer who can be there for 3-4 hours???I have seen customers who milk a beer for 8 hours!!
    Impose two drink minimum perhaps. That is a pretty common thing and, while somewhat annoying to customers, it's not so bad that they won't keep coming. Those who sit with one beer for 8 hours don't need to be in the club. Who's making money off them?

    You're not going to make anymore off the customer who enters intending to spend a certain amount on cover and drinks, and a certain amount on the girls. Period. Quit trying to gouge him. He'll keep coming back for years and dropping his money in your club if you don't piss him off too much. Furthermore, just like us dancers have to realize we're not going to make a ton off every dude who walks in the door, so do you.

    2nd,it helps in the lawsuits the clubs get from guys who spend their life savings and want to sue!If the atm's in casino's have a limit,why not the ones in gentlemens clubs?
    What difference does it make what casinos do? We're talking about strip clubs with an entirely different service. When you're dealing with customers getting such a personal service, it pays to try dealing with them on a bit more human level than a slot machine.

    But, this is why I suggested a 10% fee for both customers and dancers. That is still 20% collected on every $ of funny money issued. As I said, that ought to be plenty to cover costs and chargebacks, PLUS SOME. If your club has so many chargebacks that 20% won't cover it, you need to figure out what else is the problem. More than 10% to either customer or dancer, as I said before, is plain gouging and pisses people off. Perhaps a slight adjustment in attitude from 'get all I can from everybody in sight right now', to 'get a reasonable amount and keep them interested in coming back' would be in order here. Since when is the quick buck more important than longevity of profits?


    you must know that clubs are charged thousands of dollars a month on credit cards that are denied payment because the guy wakes up the next day and figures out he cant spend 2000 in one night.
    Yeah, I know. See previous statements.

    I dont have the actual stats,clubs are different,but i would guess they really only get 5-10% after its all said and done if they charge 20-25% up front.
    Oh, BOOHOO! The club only gets 25-50% in profit of funny money fees! Oooooooh, what a travesty! Most businesses don't end up with even that high a profit from what they sell.

    why???
    If i can get my yard mowed cheaper and done the same by someone who is willing to do it for less money then the next guy......
    When it comes to service, if it's cheaper, you can bet it's NOT the same. Period. That is why your bouncers always have their eyes on the floor instead of what they're supposed to be watching (meaning not doing their jobs properly). They are trying to find a few dropped dollars to make up for what your cheapass doesn't pay them.

    MOST mgrs make less then the bartenders.
    Yeah right. That's why the managers all have better homes and cars. Look for sympathy elsewhere.

    If its so bad,why is it so easy to fill positions in this industry???
    I never said it was so bad. Just was answering the initial posted question pertaining to what I thought would improve conditions for ALL concerned in this industry. You can't gouge everyone forever and expect them to keep coming back. I firmly believe, due to my years of varied experience and dealing with SO MANY customers on an intimate level, that owner and mgmt gouging (economy aside) is the main root of why customers don't like spending their dollars in the clubs as much.

    true,but there are exceptions to every rule,and veteran entertainers who have worked hard for you over the years deserve a little lee way IMO.
    No. I say again. I have NEVER seen a girl who couldn't be replaced. If she has given years of good service but suddenly develops a problem, she is no better than the newbie who can't get her act together. In fact, the problem veteran is worse because she would know better how to cause problems than the newbie. If she can't follow the rules like everyone else, she should be kicked out plain and simple.


    sorry,I dont mean to sound harsh,but bullshit!!!!
    Cold beer and hot females will keep them comming back.
    Until they get so pissed off with your gouging and poor treament that they never go back again. Read up on SCJ and other sites where customers post alot. When they are too pissed off they will avoid your club like the plague and badmouth the place to everyone they can. Reputation DOES make a difference sparky. Ask the guys whose clubs closed because their poor reputation kept customers away.

    Most employees last 6 months in this business.
    Perhaps because they get fed up with getting treated so poorly by jerks with your crappy attitude. It certainly ain't the lack of money.

    This aint MacDonalds.
    Yeah, I know. Something tells me McD's has a better understanding of customer service though...


    Finally, I work at the busiest club in town (and has been for the last 42 years). They utilize most of the suggestions I posted, and then some. Maybe you should come take a few lessons from them.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113461#msg113 461 date=1085422090
    It may even make you feel like you made a little bit of money for the club and not just yourself.
    I just had to deal with this little gem separately. Perhaps more entertainers would be a bit more inclined to adopt a 'team player' mentality if owners and managers did the same. We are acutely aware of the fact that owners are always looking for ways to get a higher % of customer dollars, leaving us with less and less to earn a living from. This is a direct cause of dancers feeling they need to make as much as they can for themselves and 'screw the club'!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:The Perfect Club

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113461#msg113 461 date=1085422090
    Get it right,its only the entertainers who want fewer entertainers.
    Bzzzzt! Wrong answer, but thanks for playing! Care to go to round two?

    I can't think of a single customer that enjoys being damn near drop-tackled by five dancers inside the first 30 seconds he enters a stripclub, then be annoyed three times on his way to the bar, and every two sips of beer thereafter.



    well,i survive by what entertainers tip out.I dont expect an entertainer to tip out the dj 100 bucks every night,but 5 dollars???10 dollars???Thats not even enough money for a cd for him to play for you when you ask him for the hottest new song on the radio.
    The weak, 10 dancer model at $10 a pop still comes to $100 + some sort of minimum salary. College kids are lining up to sit in that booth for those kinds of wages until business picks back up.

    You also didn't mention how even that crappy 5% will be a bigger slice for 10 dancers versus 18, since those 10 might actually stand to make some profit.

    Morale also influences tipping styles for those that tip over minimum. DJ's always make substantially more money in bigger tips on the nights when the dancers are actually bringing home rent.

    alot of new girls would be dancing on stage to stairway to heaven and stranglehold while the veterans were in the back making money!
    song limits keep it fair for all.
    One point of agreement.

    Inventory control.People steal.If you think only the employees will be getting things for free your wrong.any club who doesnt count every bottle and can,and at least "point"their booze bottles is going to go broke soon and be out of business.
    I agree on this point as well from cocktail/nightclub experience. The best bartenders and waitresses were always the ones that didn't embezzle more than 10% of the takings. LOL.

    Its one way a club makes money,and also protects itself.Its a standard limit.First off,most atm's are owned by the club,they charge 5-7 dollars per withdrawl.
    Oh, cut it out! Either you're talking some perverse regional variation or something else is afoot. The 3rd party merchant ATM's in this city they are paying to drill into the citystreets/walls since they charge the customer $5 per transaction.

    why??? If i can get my yard mowed cheaper and done the same by someone who is willing to do it for less money then the next guy......
    simple law of supply and demand.
    MOST mgrs make less then the bartenders.
    If its so bad,why is it so easy to fill positions in this industry???
    The manager/bartender trend surely isn't mirrored here.

    And having hungry employees willing to work for lower wages doesn't in any way suggest a wise decision. I'm sure you could find people willing to fly jet airliners for $5/hour too. Would you fly? If there is no interest in quality of work performed, then this is the only time scouting the cheapest warm bodies to fill slots A, B, and C is justified. This doesn't usually equate to success.


    true,but there are exceptions to every rule,and veteran entertainers who have worked hard for you over the years deserve a little lee way IMO.
    Safe, legal lee way, sure.

    sorry,I dont mean to sound harsh,but bullshit!!!!
    Cold beer and hot females will keep them comming back.
    Most employees last 6 months in this business.This aint MacDonalds.
    Bzzzzt! Another wrong answer. You wont see customers returning to a club where the bouncers are controlling hounds, the valet is rude or detached, or similar.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9441;start=msg113252#msg113 252 date=1085366516
    Well, lets pretend that a clubowner is reading this thread and wants to try a few changes suggested ... but WITHOUT the club losing money.

    #1 - limit girls per shift from 18 to 10

    Hey no problem - I'll just double the stage fees or increase the club's percentage of private dances so the club makes the same amount from 10 girls as it would have from 18 girls. I'm sure that the 10 dancers will understand why I need to do that ...

    #2 - Have funny money available, and charge a REASONABLE fee for it. 20-25% is TOO MUCH. If you must charge that much, then split it between customers and dancers - 10% to each.

    OK I can do that ... IF each dancer will agree to wait 14 days between the time she turns in her funny money and the time I give her cash once the credit card funds are actually transferred to the club's merchant account. and IF each dancer will agree that she will be paid nothing at all if her customer's credit card charge bounces back, and IF each dancer agrees to hand me $500 of her own money to hold in escrow in the club safe to cover the possibility that her customer successfully requests a refund or takes the club to court several weeks/months down the road long after I have paid her in cash for her funny money.
    #1: In the case I referred to, I would have happily paid a $50 house fee instead of $25 if that was the trade-off for having a cap at 10 girls. For the other quality girls who worked there, I suspect they would have agreed. We ALL felt it when the assholes let every skank who appeared at the door at 10pm work if she wanted. Nearly half the girls they were hiring did NOT qualify according to the 'advertised standards', not even close.

    #2: Where is the problem with limiting the charge to 10% each to dancer and customer? That is still 20% and according to our apparent 'expert', more than enough for most clubs to not only cover their asses but turn an extra profit to boot!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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