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    Default retired entertainer from nyc

    Hello ladies.........
    I am retired from the industry for about 2 years now.I worked in NYC for 8 out of the 10 years I danced.I now live out of state and cant believe what I read about VIP in NYC.I am shocked.If any of you ladies out there worked at VIPS in NYC during 96,97,98 I'd like to chat with you.Talk about how it used to be.Because I have nothing but good memories of the place.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    By any chance are you Dallas or cameron?

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    NO.....but i remember caeron, she was beautiful blonde who was a cheerleader and did awsome stage work

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    michele........... did you work there(atVIPS) during those years too?i'd like to talk about the good "old" days when it was all about class and a 5 star restaurant!

    allie

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Hi allie I do not work in nyc but have started dancing two years ago. I work with many women who started dancing ten years ago and they said is was wonderful being a dancer back then. It makes me so envious of you guys who were old enough to dance back then. I am so sick of what goes on now in vip too. It is like don't these girls know how pretty they are and they don't need to be doing stuff like this. I think dancers dancing dirty is spinning out of control. If none of us would do it we would probably make more money from all guys. Sorry I am not from nyc but I know what you mean when you say you are shocked about what you read on here.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Hi Allie. I'm a "semi-retired" dancer from the NY/NJ area who also spent the better part of the 90's working in NY clubs. I never worked at VIP's, but I did spend quite a bit of time at other NY/NJ clubs. I agree that it almost makes you cry when you see the changes in many NYC clubs today versus the "good ol days" of the mid-90's when these clubs were all about class. Today, with the exception of PEC and Scores and a handful of other holdouts, NYC clubs are mostly all about ass - or to put it more precisely, what used to be considered "show business" is now considered to be "sex business" !

    IMHO this can be traced directly back to former mayor Juliani's anti-dance club crusade and the resulting NYC anti-dance club ordinances. These ordinances achieved their political purpose of driving half of the 1990's NYC clubs out of business, allowing the mayor to attract Disney and Warner Brothers to Times Square. However, these ordinances also achieved untended purposes, like making 40% of every club unprofitable due to the 60/40 law, like creating a surplus of dancers versus available NYC club openings, and like making lots of fairly innocent dancer/customer interactions technically illegal. Forcing clubs to operate at the edge of the law (or over the edge to remain profitable) merely encouraged more and more clubs and therefore more and more dancers to start working on the wrong side of the dotted line in order to earn halfway decent money. Once it becomes standard procedure to work across the dotted line, the question then comes up of working even farther across that dotted line in order to earn even more money - particularly when enforcement is lax and when the fines and legal penalties if you are ever busted are virtually the same whether you're giving a high contact lap dance or a blow job.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    No allie I never worked at vips.I live in florida and I had tons of friends that traveled there to work at vips,tens an scores.I lost contact with some of them and thought yu might be one of them.They all worked the same years you did.Iam sure we know some of the same people.I also was surprised to hear what ha happened at vips andmade post about it in the club section.Well good luck to you and welcome to stripper web.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    hi Michele..........
    I danced in florida for like 3 years.I woked on the east coast, what about you???

    Allie

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    lilac666...... don't be discouraged, there is money to be made.Back then it was all new and exciting.I feel bad for you ladies now cause you've got the internet now kind of taking away from the clubs. Back in my day, the intenet wasn't so prevelant.Make your money and get out!......... the business is only going to get worse...
    lots of luck, sweetie
    Allie

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Melonie........
    Youve got a good attitude.Your going to always be one of "the good girls". Nice to know you
    Allie

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Hey Girls!
    Iam also a retired NYC dancer, I never worked at VIPs but worked for Flashdancers/NY Dolls/Private Eyes and also Shenanigans (when it was open) 97-2002...
    Ahhhh the good ol' days huh? When you can just DANCE for some dude, and not worry about some silly tramp stealing your biz cause shes doing some gnarly crap in the Champagne lounge.
    Big HELLO to all my pals in NYC!!!!
    Would love to hear what your all up to now,
    love Fifi xxx

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    fifi xxx

    Nice to hear from another "old school "entertainer". Just curious, ever work in the south bronx?
    ALLIE

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    I never worked at VIPs but worked for Flashdancers/NY Dolls/Private Eyes and also Shenanigans (when it was open) 97-2002...
    This must be old home week. I also danced at Flash and Private Eyes once upon a time (when my cup size was still in the first half of the alphabet). I don't want to "date" myself, but do you remember 'Runway 69' on Times Square (now Lace) ?


    I'm also in complete agreement with Allie that, no matter what the economy does, the exotic dancing business is only going to get worse.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    ooooh mama!
    Did you ever feature at FD/PE/NY Dolls? You look awfully familiar.
    Do you remember feautres like Crystal Storm, Plenty Uptopp, Casey James or Bunny Glamzon?
    I was a house girl, but they were the nicest bunch of chicks Ive ever met.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    And YES I do remember when Lace was Runway 69....

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Quote Originally Posted by allie link=board=27;threadid=9588;start=msg114690#msg114 690 date=1085697219
    fifi xxx

    Nice to hear from another "old school "entertainer". Just curious, ever work in the south bronx?
    ALLIE
    No I didnt just NYC/Queens/Connecticut

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Sounds like Christmas Week at Flash !!! Nearly 100 pounds of boobs onstage at the same time ! The only one out of the group I've never met is Bunny.

    I also agree (with a degree of self-serving interest) that the big boobs non xxx features are a wonderful group of girls ! Unfortunately, the xxx porn actresses are taking over the feature business in the same way that dancers offering high mileage and "extras" are taking over at many clubs. Just look at how Flash's feature lineup has changed over the past few years (and I suspect that last Christmas was the last multi big boob feature show).



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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Wooo hoo!!
    I love you big hoo-hoo girls!
    I have a whole stack of polariods that me and my old roomate would collect from all the feautres.
    I think i have Colt 45's boobs on my head in one.
    The Christmas shows rokked!
    Take care luv!!

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Hey Allie,

    I would guess I worked there from about '97 being the first time I went to Vip's on a work trip from Texas, went there about 2-5 times a year until about 2000. Last time I was there was late 2002 I guess, management had changed and the place was almost totally different.
    I have some pretty good memories of the way that club used to be too! But there are still other places in NYC to work that are very nice, profitable, and fun.

    Brittany

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Melonie, I'm asking you this not to argue with you, but to learn from you:

    You frequently refer (or seem to refer) to anti-contact regulations that were put into effect during the Giuliani administration. All I know about that went into effect then was the adult zoning reg. I thought -- and obviously I can be wrong -- that the only contact limitations in effect in NYC are found in the New York State prostitution laws, which have been on the books forever (and which comport with your discription of what the law allows and doesn't allow, BTW).

    Could you tell me what City contact regulations (or even new State contact regulations) went into effect in the '90s?

    (BTW, not that you care, but aside from this possible difference, I agree completely with your analysis of the unintended consequences of the Giuliani/McCaffrey anti-strip-club crusade -- and I love your posts in general.)

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Rath, former mayor Juliani's ordinance did indeed mostly consist of provisions which directly affected the clubs, i.e. minimum distances from public buildings, "adult entertainment" geographic zoning, 60%"non-adult"/40% "adult" use of square footage etc. Everybody heard about these in the news media because they were the basis of several appeals brought by NYC clubowners.

    However the same ordinance also has provisions which restrict club operation, which affects both clubs and dancers. One provision, for example, is that contact between a dancer and a customer's genital area - even if clothed - is illegal. This provision is clearly different from state prostitution laws. If strictly interpreted and enforced (which it obviously is not), this provision could be used to stop full contact lap dances in NYC clubs, or even to prevent dancers from sitting on customer's laps.

    But because this provision is on the books as NYC law, it has created a situation where the potential exists that dancers could be busted at any time just for doing what every other dancer at every other club in NYC is doing. So far I haven't heard of a single instance of this provision actually being used to bust NYC dancers - everybody from NYC cops to clubowners to dancers have simply "ignored" this provision and NYC clubs and dancers carry on giving lap dances business as usual.

    But the risk is that if political pressure were brought to bear on the NYC police to start enforcing this provision, the entire NYC strip club scene would go to hell in a handbasket. This was the reason that I was so concerned about this new conservative councilwoman from Manhattan's Chelsea district teaming up with a community group to complain about West Side Highway clubs.

    Because most NYC dancers can potentially be busted at any time for doing contact lap dances, and because most NYC dancers can't survive financially without doing contact lap dances, and because being charged with violating the NYC strip club ordinance is a misdemeanor offense with exactly the same penalties as breaking the state prostitution law, some dancers figure that they have nothing additional to lose and much to gain in the way of private dance sales and tips if they stray even farther across the 'dotted line' to the point of providing "extras".

    This line of thinking has contributed greatly to the increasing sleaze factor in some NYC clubs. Also, from a pragmatic standpoint, such dancers are probably correct. If the NYC police are not going to bother to enforce laws in NYC strip clubs, then they are just as unlikely to be busted for "extras" as they would be for giving a customer a full contact lap dance. If the NYC police change their current policy someday and start enforcing laws in NYC strip clubs, since the legal penalties for being busted for full contact lap dances under the NYC law are the same as being busted for giving "extras" under NY state prostitution law, they have absolutely nothing additional to lose by giving "extras"!

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Hi RATH ! Hi Melonie ! I too enjoy and appreciate your posts. You are very articulate, informed and insightful- to put it mildly. As usual, you are correct in pointing to
    the good old "Law of Unintended Consequences " in
    analyzing the current state of the strip biz in NYC.
    There's one other point I'd like to add. I used to be a
    regular at the old Stringfellow's ( now known as Ten's)
    in the early 90's and genuinely enjoyed the place.
    There was NO CONTACT ! None, zero ,zip, nada. Likewise, the ladies that worked there ( and they looked, acted and talked like LADIES ) did not seem to be as "pressured" as the dancers of today in selling
    dancers. As I think back back and remember them
    they were so much more graceful and casual about selling dances AND spending time with customers.
    Were the house fees & tip-outs that much lower back
    then. BTW- I don't remember a VIP room there. They had "funny money" but if I'm remembering correctly
    (and it has been over a decade) they were only selling
    table dances.
    That place was well into decline long before Emperor
    Rudy pushed through the zoning law changes BUT VIP
    was in it's heyday. Again it was high-class NO CONTACT
    AFAIK.
    Today, there's contact everywhere. Even at Scores &
    PEC. It's kept quiet, it's behind closed doors but some
    dancers are definitely ahem "bending the rules" while
    making sure not to get caught. VIP is a brothel. Frankly,
    I don't understand why a few dancers I know who do
    NOT engage in serious hanky panky stay there. I've told them to check out PEC but maybe they can't get hired there. I don't know.
    As a customer with a healthy sex drive I don't like to see & hear about all this sexual stuff going on in clubs.
    If dancers and customers want to do those sorts of things - FINE ! Get a room - hook up privately but keep it
    OUTSIDE the club because sooner or later the backlash
    is going to hit. Clubs are just too convenient a target.
    Moreover, the dancers who do these sorts of things
    where mgt. KNOWS what is going on are just handing
    them the knife to one day cut their throat. Some mgrs.
    at Some clubs LOVE to fire a dancer every once in while
    for giving a bj in the VIP. (Just happened at Scores West.) I suppose they use it to keep the girls in line
    and maintain the "fear factor" that they think is necessary to run the club.But on the other hand their
    hypocrisy is breathtaking because they KNOW what is
    really happening in their vaunted VIP rooms and have
    no trouble pocketing their share.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Melonie, thanks.

    Do you have a citation for that NYC contact restriction? This is honestly the first I've ever heard of it. Even if it was passed at the same time as the adult zoning reg, I would think it would have to be put in a different part of the New York City Code, because zoning regs deal only with zoning and building use (like 60%/40%), whereas contact regs are regulating something else entirely.

    (I also note that I think you'll find, if you look at the New York State prostitution law, that it defines the conduct that you can't do for money in a way that could be interpreted to include contact lap or table dances. So -- if I'm right, and I haven't checked it recently -- the prostitution law arguably DOES cover dances.)

    Thanks again.

    (PS -- Hi Kid.)

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Sorry if this is getting boring.

    Melonie, are you sure you're not thinking about the zoning reg's definition of what constitutes an "adult use"? Like it regulated how much of your body your outfit had to cover IF YOU WERE WORKING IN A PLACE THAT WASN'T IN AN ADULT ZONE. And maybe it regulated what kind of contact you could have IN PLACES OUTSIDE ADULT ZONES, too. (I.e., if you didn't follow the regs, you had an "adult use", which you could only have in an area zoned for "adult uses".) But those regs had no effect on what could go on in properly-zoned adult businesses (such as -- to take some current examples -- PEC, Scores West, Hustler, Privilege, CEO, Flashdancers, and the Paradise Club). And they also have no effect on what could go on in clubs that avoid being "adult uses" by going the "60/40" route (including, for example, Scores East, VIP, and Tens). (Although I think the zoning reg was amended last year in an attempt to close the "60/40" loophole -- an amendment that I think is now held up in litigation.)

    Is it possible THAT'S what you're thinking of?

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    WOW............. I haven't heard those names in a very long time! (Runway69 and Lace).Thats back when the business was at its peak and there weren't so many damn clubs out there!!You ladies are definately bringing back memories, its funny, the more time goes by I seem to remember the good times.During the "good times" I only saw the bad and was l"lost".
    If I knew then what I know now.................................

    Allie

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