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Thread: retired entertainer from nyc

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Brittany,
    Just curious do you recall" Sal's girls"...... and the other Romeos of VIP management??
    Allie

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Hey allie,I worked at the doll house in tampa.I never worked on the east coast.Most clubs there are nude and I dont do nude.Did you just stop dancing?

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Rath, to be honest, I really don't have the detailed answers you have repeatedly asked for. I would guess that if you look at the original NYC anti-dance club ordinance itself, and not just the specific NYC zoning and other laws which were enacted/modified as a result of the ordinance, that you'll find a lot more information. I read a copy of that ordinance right after it was enacted and the first round of appeals started, but God knows if I still have it. I agree with you that NYC strip club laws are such a confusing snarl that it's virtually impossible to sort out details - as your example of Scores East versus Scores West being covered by very different provisions of local law amply illustrates. It's also entirely possible that your reference to the "adult use" provisions of NYC zoning laws is where the ordinance provisions applying to dancers wound up being codified.

    In regard to NY state prostitution law, you're absolutely correct that there is enough ambiguity in the wording so that some rabid DA could indeed attempt to bust NY dancers giving contact lap dances under the state prostitution law alone. While I have heard of a similar thing happening in Texas, to the best of my knowledge this has never actually happened anywhere in NY - yet.

    I guess the main point is that, with existing NY state and NYC city laws already on the books, virtually every dancer in virtually every NY club is potentially at risk of being busted at any time just for doing the same things that have been done as a matter of routine by virtually every dancer in every club in NY for the past 10 years. The only thing that really prevents busts from happening is the political climate between the clubs and local politicians/cops/neighborhood residents.

    I guess the secondary point is that some girls have figured out that they face very little additional risk by clearly breaking the NY state prostitution law in VIP/champagne rooms, but stand to gain financially in a big way. As long as local politicians/cops/neighborhood residents are cool with the clubs, the odds of being busted are essentially the same, i.e. next to zero. And if they are ever busted, the legal penalties they would face would be exactly the same.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Thats back when the business was at its peak and there weren't so many damn clubs out there
    Ain't that the truth !!! Also, back in the "good ol' days" customers were actually content to LOOK AT a beautiful girl, and didn't expect "foreplay" in exchange for their money ! As I posted earlier, clubs being considered "show" business has gradually mutated into "sex" business, which is my greatest disappointment as an "old school" dancer.

    During the "good times" I only saw the bad and was l"lost". If I knew then what I know now.
    Yes I too remember perhaps 10 years ago that I would moan about a $500 night being pitiful and be shocked that a guy tried to grab my boobs ! These days in most clubs a $500 night is average (if not considered high in some clubs) and I'm surprised when a guy DOESN'T try to grab my boobs LOL (but today I have a lot bigger boobs to grab than I did back then, too, I suppose !)

    Also, I don't know if you followed the feature scene, but the gradual mutation from "show" business to "sex" business has been even more extreme over the past 10 years. It has actually progressed to the point where many feature girls simply use the club booking as a write-off and a reason to travel from city to city to perform "private sessions" with club customers/fans. Check out if you don't know what I'm talking about. This is the main reason that I'm now semi-retired.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Some mgrs. at some clubs LOVE to fire a dancer every once in while for giving a bj in the VIP. (Just happened at Scores West.) I suppose they use it to keep the girls in line and maintain the "fear factor" that they think is necessary to run the club.But on the other hand their hypocrisy is breathtaking because they KNOW what is really happening in their vaunted VIP rooms and have no trouble pocketing their share.
    More than likely the dancer in question at Scores West wasn't "kicking back" to the right people, or wasn't being discrete enough, or club management was looking for an excuse to replace her with somebody younger/prettier/more naive ! I doubt that a fear factor had much to do with it.

    Plus, if the current NYC law enforcement policies ever do change in the future, the club is on record that it was not officially encouraging illegal activities by dancers if it can show firings took place. From a corporate attorney standpoint, this is very important because it would allow the club to plead ignorance if it were ever hit with a charge of "promoting".

    In regard to breathtaking hypocrisy, IMHO this doesn't stop with just club management ... (please don't aim those stones at my face !!!). I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that city officials and cops know exactly what's going on, and for whatever reasons choose not to investigate too deeply. I also find it very hard to believe that any dancers are totally unaware of what some of their co-workers are up to.

    I'm hoping that the Scores West incident escaped any publicity, because this is just the sort of ammunition that the new city councilwoman from NYC's Chelsea district needs to kick her neo-anti-dance club crusade into high gear.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Melonie- In NYC at least, we're all part of the same hypocrisy- Owners, dancers, customers, cops & City
    officials.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Melonie- In NYC at least, we're all part of the same hypocrisy- Owners, dancers, customers, cops & City officials
    Well I'm certainly not going to argue that point, Kid. Personally speaking, I much prefer a club environment like the Jersey Shore where club management, dancers and customers are significantly more open and honest about exactly what sort of contact levels are available.

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9588;start=msg115352#msg115 352 date=1085837197
    Some mgrs. at some clubs LOVE to fire a dancer every once in while for giving a bj in the VIP. (Just happened at Scores West.) I suppose they use it to keep the girls in line and maintain the "fear factor" that they think is necessary to run the club.But on the other hand their hypocrisy is breathtaking because they KNOW what is really happening in their vaunted VIP rooms and have no trouble pocketing their share.
    More than likely the dancer in question at Scores West wasn't "kicking back" to the right people, or wasn't being discrete enough, or club management was looking for an excuse to replace her with somebody younger/prettier/more naive ! I doubt that a fear factor had much to do with it.
    Actually she was young not a day older than 23yrs, great body size 2, nice tits & ass and a model couldn't be any more beautiful. She was new working only 4 days, canadian and just flew in from LA. It's possible the kid might be right on target. It's also possible she gave extra to a customer that mgmt. doesn't know. To my understanding in the past mgmt. will allow extra with a patron that mgmt knows well and a big spender to the club as well as kick backs. With an unknown patron they risk an under-cover which can turn into a bust...
    The sexiest most wanted stripper in NYC.
    Live like a movie star, party like a rock star and fuck like a pornstar!...

  9. #34
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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9588;start=msg115346#msg115 346 date=1085835090
    Thats back when the business was at its peak and there weren't so many damn clubs out there
    Ain't that the truth !!! Also, back in the "good ol' days" customers were actually content to LOOK AT a beautiful girl, and didn't expect "foreplay" in exchange for their money ! As I posted earlier, clubs being considered "show" business has gradually mutated into "sex" business, which is my greatest disappointment as an "old school" dancer.

    During the "good times" I only saw the bad and was l"lost". If I knew then what I know now.
    Yes I too remember perhaps 10 years ago that I would moan about a $500 night being pitiful and be shocked that a guy tried to grab my boobs ! These days in most clubs a $500 night is average (if not considered high in some clubs) and I'm surprised when a guy DOESN'T try to grab my boobs LOL (but today I have a lot bigger boobs to grab than I did back then, too, I suppose !)
    This is so true, 1996, 1997 and 1998 were great years and the birth of Vip Club. There were more contact at vip than scores and tens and this was when Vip was the #1 topless club in manhattan but there were no extras in the rooms. When 1999 came with the 60/40 rule that's when things changed because clubs had to pay a lot of legal fees and they weren't sure if they had to move or not and prepared for the worst......
    The sexiest most wanted stripper in NYC.
    Live like a movie star, party like a rock star and fuck like a pornstar!...

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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=9588;start=msg114670#msg114 670 date=1085693416
    Hi Allie. I'm a "semi-retired" dancer from the NY/NJ area who also spent the better part of the 90's working in NY clubs. I never worked at VIP's, but I did spend quite a bit of time at other NY/NJ clubs. I agree that it almost makes you cry when you see the changes in many NYC clubs today versus the "good ol days" of the mid-90's when these clubs were all about class. Today, with the exception of PEC and Scores and a handful of other holdouts, NYC clubs are mostly all about ass - or to put it more precisely, what used to be considered "show business" is now considered to be "sex business" !

    IMHO this can be traced directly back to former mayor Juliani's anti-dance club crusade and the resulting NYC anti-dance club ordinances. These ordinances achieved their political purpose of driving half of the 1990's NYC clubs out of business, allowing the mayor to attract Disney and Warner Brothers to Times Square. However, these ordinances also achieved untended purposes, like making 40% of every club unprofitable due to the 60/40 law, like creating a surplus of dancers versus available NYC club openings, and like making lots of fairly innocent dancer/customer interactions technically illegal. Forcing clubs to operate at the edge of the law (or over the edge to remain profitable) merely encouraged more and more clubs and therefore more and more dancers to start working on the wrong side of the dotted line in order to earn halfway decent money. Once it becomes standard procedure to work across the dotted line, the question then comes up of working even farther across that dotted line in order to earn even more money - particularly when enforcement is lax and when the fines and legal penalties if you are ever busted are virtually the same whether you're giving a high contact lap dance or a blow job.


    That is the best assessment of what went wrong in NY I've ever heard.

    When the Mayor instituted all those changes, it only made more dancers outlaws or pariahs of the industry. We had to do whatever it took to stay competitive. Instead of cleaning up Times Square, the Mayor dirtied the talent pool and the industry became more lowbrow. Yeah, families might be able to go to Times Square now, but the Mayor created broken families by pushing many young women into places mentally they could not handle.

    To think that Juliani is now treated and feted by certain people and governments as the saviour of NYC, while 9/11 survivors and families ridiculed his actions on that day should make anyone wonder how he can be so pompous.


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    Default Re:retired entertainer from nyc

    When the Mayor instituted all those changes, it only made more dancers outlaws or pariahs of the industry. We had to do whatever it took to stay competitive. Instead of cleaning up Times Square, the Mayor dirtied the talent pool and the industry became more lowbrow. Yeah, families might be able to go to Times Square now, but the Mayor created broken families by pushing many young women into places mentally they could not handle.
    Absolutely true ! And thanks to Mayor Rudy's nationally publicized success in bringing big corporate investment to the city, many other cities are now following in his footsteps in regard to passing anti-dance club ordinances. This is spreading the same sort of unintended consequences to other clubs in other cities, and affecting thousands of other dancers.

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