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Thread: Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

  1. #76
    Veteran Member Topaz's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    i rest my case...

    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    i rest my case...
    Ultimately, until society changes enough that white men no longer comprise 95% of the money spent in upscale high earnings potential strip clubs in northern cities, upscale clubowners in northern cities are not going to risk disappointing those white men such that they decide to take their business to a different club. Business 101 - the customer is always right !

    Is this discouraging to black dancers ? Absolutely. (and I shouldn't even be commenting on this because I have never experienced such treatment first hand - only seen it happen to black dancers auditioning). But realistically this is not going to change significantly until the underlying tensions between blacks and whites in northern cities diminish, and until the average earnings levels (therefore spending habits) of black club customers become closer to white club customers, as is already the case in southern cities like Atlanta.

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    Veteran Member Topaz's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    black dancers...get out of the business...'cause it's obvious that you're not wanted here...

    wannabees...don't even try...'cause it's obvious that you're not wanted here either...

    and look...here's the looooong explaination why....

    ...like i said...i rest my case...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    As I said initially, this is one of those "taboo subjects", where anybody who doesn't toe a PC line, and/or attempts to inject some financial/demographic reality, is tacitly accused of being a racist.

    The only way I can possibly think of to truly sort this out is for say the city of New York to pass an affirmative action law requiring all NYC clubs to fire white dancers and hire black dancers until they achieve a 27% black dancer percentage to match the NYC general population. Then let's sit back for a year and see what club earnings potentials are like for all NYC dancers and clubowners. Personally, if this were to happen, I'd be watching NYC developments from New Jersey !

  5. #80
    Veteran Member Topaz's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    my point was proven...and...well...the words 'racist' or 'racism'...are nowhere...in any of my posts here...imagine that...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

  6. #81
    Veteran Member Sparkell's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=27;threadid=9697;start=msg119700#msg119 700 date=1086734588
    it seem that every time this topic comes up...everytime the question "why aren't there more black dancers in...?" or "why don't the clubs have more variety...?" the issue of geography or demographics comes up...

    my take on that...

    it seems that regardless of the size or location of a club...the size or location of the city...regardless of whether the club is upscale or a neighborhood titty bar...regardless of contact level...the answers are still the same...

    "they don't have 'the look' we're after"...or...

    "they don't cater to the demand of our customer base"...or...

    "if we hire too many of them, they'll bring the 'undesirable element' to our club" (translation - black men)...or...

    "if we hire too many of them, we'll lose money, they'll destroy our bottom line..."...or...

    "i think there's a black club down the street...why don't you try there" (unspoken..."...because you're not wanted here")...the list goes on...

    do any of you know how upsetting and discouraging the 'information' provided in this thread (and others like it) is?...do any of you even care?...

    seems like a lot of people in this business spend more time and effort trying to discourage the sistas from making a go of it as a dancer...

    well...it worked as far as i'm concerned...and as i said before...reading all of this...has killed what little dream i may have had left of ever becoming a dancer...and i already know about the black girl at your club that makes bank...

    we get judged automatically...before we even open our mouths...almost always in a negative sence...everywhere we go...this is no surprise (or it shouldn't be)...but don't think that the above answers to the above questions are acceptable...legitimate...reasons to try to shut us out...

    get the blow torches if you want to...this is how i interpret (sp) the replys here...and i mention black most...'cause i can only speak for me...a black woman...

    THE END...
    thank you...so very much!! i also feel it not the issue of geography or demographics...its just plain and simple some clubs just are racist and dont want black girls...i can deal with that but dont be like Melonie and give bull shit reasons to why we dont get hired.. a club owner will say anything to not be labled as a racist...that also includes giving any reason to not accept ethnic ladies....but like i said thats something i can for shure live with because im good at what i do...no matter were i work....if they want me there or not...


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    Featured Member sander8son's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    i dont think melonie is saying racism isn't driving the club owners hiring practices. i think shes saying, some are pure racists and some are opperating on what they perceive is the racist beliefs of their customers. for a business to survive they have to cater to their customers. if they think their bread and butter customers are racists, they'll hire on race.

    ofcorse, i dont believe in racial quotas. why? im a white male, how does that benefit me?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    and...well...the words 'racist' or 'racism'...are nowhere...in any of my posts here...imagine that

    '''... tacitly accused of being a racist '''


    TACIT -
    Not spoken:
    indicated tacit approval by smiling and winking.

    Implied by or inferred from actions or statements: "Management has given its tacit approval to the plan. "

    (from dictionary.com)

    Your posts may not have directly used the word "racist" or "racism", but they damn sure implied and inferred it ! Hey, I don't own a club - I don't make hiring decisions in regard to black dancers - no skin off my butt, however I will avoid responding to any future threads on "taboo subjects" like this one for obvious reasons.


    i dont think melonie is saying racism isn't driving the club owners hiring practices. i think shes saying, some are pure racists and some are opperating on what they perceive is the racist beliefs of their customers. for a business to survive they have to cater to their customers. if they think their bread and butter customers are racists, they'll hire on race.
    exactly, and stated much more bluntly than I was able to !




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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by sander8son link=board=27;threadid=9697;start=msg119780#msg119 780 date=1086740889
    owners [snip] are opperating on what they perceive is the racist beliefs of their customers. for a business to survive they have to cater to their customers. if they think their bread and butter customers are racists, they'll hire on race.
    EXACTLY.

    It's NOT the clubowners girls, it's the customers. The clubowners simply do their best to give the CUSTOMERS what they want. If most of the customers are racist pigs (which they are), the owners are going to hire accordingly. Plain and simple. That is all Melonie is trying to say. None of this means Melonie is racist. It means she is a realist.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    If most of the customers are racist pigs (which they are), the owners are going to hire accordingly.
    to be more precise, racist pigs with lots of money !

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    Veteran Member Topaz's Avatar
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    so my decision to give up on this pipe dream was a smart one then huh...

    since all the customers are racist...as you all are saying...and don't want 'them nigger bitches' in the clubs...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Toronto is the worlds most diverse city. With that being said, there are many black, hispanic, asian , white, etc...the list goes on.
    The club that I work part time at is a mix ...with maybe 33% white girls. Im not sure that this goes for every club here, however the 66% are busier and in my opinion all very exotic looking.
    I almost did a stag last summer with two other girls....and the men complained that my description was not accurately given. So, I left. I cannot imagine what it would be like to have to go thru this evrytime you turn around. Its Bullshyt!!!!!!!
    No one should ever let some racist ruin their dreams.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Toronto is the worlds most diverse city. With that being said, there are many black, hispanic, asian , white, etc...the list goes on.
    The club that I work part time at is a mix ...with maybe 33% white girls. Im not sure that this goes for every club here, however the 66% are busier and in my opinion all very exotic looking.
    Definitely ! Toronto surpasses Atlanta in regard to club customers coming from all races, the city having almost non-existant racial tensions, almost equal white collar earnings potential for all races, and the almost total absence of a "cultural gap" between races. Toronto club customer spending habits and Toronto clubowner hiring practices reflect that !

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    As of 2002 white people have become the minority here, and its a very peaceful place. I think Im going to miss it terribly when I move.


    Topaz......NEVER ever give up. Ever!

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    In fact many major metro areas in the US have white populations of 60% or less.

    In many places there are more non whites than whites. And in all your major west coast states like AZ, CA, WA OR, AK, and many northern ones like MN etc. mixed race dating and marriage is so common no one even blinks an eye anymore.

    The "proper" racial mix in a club of all non white dancers combined is about 1/3. Clubs that I see with that type of mix and the ones who hire the "right" non white dancers seem to fare well. if a club has 5 dancers then 1 black and one hispanic is cool. With 20 dancers 6-7 ethnic is good. 50 dancers, 16-17 non white and 33 white dancers is perfect.

    What I mean by the right dancers is the same criteria used to hire white dancers in high end clubs. Hick white girls won't mix properly with more intellectual customers.

    In this business needless to say, black dancers who have a more afrocentric vs. eurocentric look won't compete well period. So black women who have this look and who are somewhat low key and used to interacting with white people and who have white friends will be the type of dancer who will be able to competer fairly evenly with a white dancer in a mixed race/predominately white club. The same goes for hispanic girls even though they are caucasians realistically.

    Black and hispanic girls who don't have the proper look and exposure outside of their culture won'tbe able to compete with the white dancers it and will probably make the white customers feel uncomfortable.

    What this boils down to is that club managers would have to take the time to "screen" the ethnic girls to make sure they have the right personna even if the looks are like Beyonce' and J-Lo to make sure they would blend in the club well.

    But club managers don't do that very often. I experienced it once, got hired, and the manager was telling some of the dancers to watch how I work they floor using me as an example once I got in.

    Topaz, we've had thjis discussion before. we as black people all experience discrimination on a daily basis just as you do. Some self help books/tapes on having a positive attitude would help you a lot. Because even if you were white, and a perfect 10, sales would be tough for you if you don't act happy and cheerful around customers.

    People buy your personality. Some white people are just not used to being around blacks. If you are friendly and communicate well along with dressing and grooming yourself properly, you WILL make money. Probably more full time than at your job.

    In Billings MT at a club I book monthly, 2 cowboy guys chose me to be in their private bachelor party held at the club. Out of 7 white girls only one of them was picked and then me. And I was the only one to sell them dances that night.

    So stereotyping goes both ways.

    Topaz, you could dance and make money at this as soon as you eliminate the "nobody wants my black ass" attitude. There are lots of clubs that would hire you right now IF you drop the attitude, smile and be a fun girl that the guys want to be with and spend money on.

    The customers aren't as bad as the owners make them out to be. Sure you get some but what dancer or girl in general will appeal to everyone.

  17. #91
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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Uggh..were is the advil. Where do I start... since this thread is about "black dancers in upscale gentlemen's club" let talk about that....
    Hiring... First off, I personally find it vey hard to believe that strip club owners are coming together and talking about demographics of their clubs, in order to better serve the customer,since when is there a strip club congressional cacaus?. Im not into the whole "white man is holding me down" drivel either. (My bf of 2 years is white.) However, Im dont live in a fantasy world either... like or not it is racism, not demographics.

    Music... in upscale gentlemen's club... black women arent even given the privelage to dance to hip-hop anymore. ( I was told that I was not allowed to dance to rap, too bad I was planning on dancing to Rob Zombie, and Alice Cooper.) I find that more and more often the white females are the one's on stage trying to "get low" and "shake it like a salt shaker" not me.

    Customers... yes almost every customer I have talked to they are always like "you must not be from here," "are you mixed?," "I dont consider you to be a black,"... and the best one yet "you must be one of the ones who didnt grow up in the ghetto"....CUSTOMERS DO JUDGE BLACK DANCERS RIGHT OFF THE BAT. You have to work very hard to get past that stereotype, that "loud mouth, chicken eating, watermelon and koolaid taking, think she best dancer, jay-z loving, big butt having black girl."lol

    Rap Customers....Some made a post about rap music causing her to not be tipped, get drinks, and to be groped. Im sorry but I almost feel into the floor laughing my ass off... So I guess rock and pop keep guys from feeling you up right? Well, hell now I can fire my bouncers....as long as the club is playing AC/DC and Britney Spears we are all kosher. Awesome.
    I realize that that rap music brings in a different kind of crowd, that some of the rap customers do not tip (although usually they throw money on stage when their song is on here at my club) But I and IM sure many others can point out that isnt just the rap music.
    Every customer is not the same, the old guy in the suit may like nelly....and the guy in the jersey is probably waiting for Led Zepplin's "The Ocean" to play.

    Just A Thought...

    Note... To the gentlemen who said it was really sad that he couldnt say certain thing without being labeled a racist. Trust me, I know. Black people are hold real tight to this "that's our word" thing.
    Nigger....is a word to describe an ignorant person period. I wont give someone the joy of trying to make it anything else.

    Racism,discrimination, bigotry....affects everyone it isnt just blacks.

    Hell, the way I figure it the people who should be really complaining...are hispanics. Seems like everyone of every race just calls them "mexicans" and a lot of other names. Yet I rarely here them complain. Everyone laughing cause the got their whole family in one vehicle, yet most of us dont even have that kind of family closeness. Im telling you one of these days we are going to need to cross that border, and their going to be like remember back when... Damn Shame.

    2004...all this technology and not a drop of tolerance let alone common sense.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    First off, I personally find it vey hard to believe that strip club owners are coming together and talking about demographics of their clubs, in order to better serve the customer,since when is there a strip club congressional cacaus
    I'm really getting hesitant about continuing to post in this thread, but ...

    If you're talking about upscale clubowners in big cities, these are almost invariably corporations not individual owners. You're also talking about financial investments in the multi-million dollar range (I believe that Penthouse Corp. invested $7 million to open PEC in Manhattan), which must be financed. This brings into play major bankers, stockholders, board of directors etc. At this level you can count on the fact that a detailed business plan was developed prior to the club ever opening in order to secure the financing, and part of that plan included a demographic analysis and profiling of targeted customers.

    Furthermore, corporate clubs really don't care about customer service. Nor do they care about making dancers happy. What they DO care about is taking in as much customer money as possible in as short of a time as possible, and paying out as little of it as possible in the way of operating expenses. It's guaranteed that there is a 'bean counter' in the major bank which financed the club who is looking at the cash flow numbers from the club on a weekly basis, and making recommendations which will maximize club cash flow next week. If one of those recommendations involves tweaking the ethnic makeup of the club's dancers, it's based on cash flow projections (at least to some degree).

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=27;threadid=9697;start=msg119816#msg119 816 date=1086744344
    so my decision to give up on this pipe dream was a smart one then huh...

    since all the customers are racist...as you all are saying...and don't want 'them nigger bitches' in the clubs...
    Alright. This is the stupidest thing I've read all day. NONE of us have said that all customers are racist. But yes, most who go to upscale clubs are. Don't kill the messenger alright. Just stating a well-known fact. Having alot of black dancers draws more black customers. Then the white customers get uncomfortable with "too many" black customers in the room and leave. In reality, many of the white customers would prefer to see more black dancers in the clubs - they just don't hang around when there are alot of black CUSTOMERS. Since the white customers have always been known to spend more money in the clubs OVERALL, the owners are obliged to cater to them.

    Yeah racism sucks and it's unfortunate that it still exists. But don't go screaming racism at the wrong people. Business owners are in business to make money and they're going to do what they must to maintain their bottom lines. Others who simply make an observation are not the ones at fault. These problems will NOT ever get solved by bitching and complaining and screaming at the wrong people to make up for others' shortcomings. The only thing anyone can really do is take care of the problem at home - that's the only thing that will make a difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Devil's Advocate, here. I like apple pie. I do not like peach pie. I do like peaches....I just don't care for peach pie. I have nothing against peaches. I think peaches and apples should be in the same general area in the supermarket. I do, however, think that a supermarket should only buy as many peaches and apples as they think they are going to sell. One should not purchase extra peaches just to keep the peaches happy, if more people are buying apples. Where is the line? At what point does one's personal preference cross over to racism? I also prefer brunettes over blondes and redheads....although there are many blondes, redheads, and african americans I have seen that I found quite attractive. More times than not, I prefer brunettes. Am I a racist? If so....am I also a hairist?

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina link=board=27;threadid=9697;start=msg119891#msg119 891 date=1086750096
    ... you could dance and make money at this as soon as you eliminate the "nobody wants my black ass" attitude. There are lots of clubs that would hire you right now IF you drop the attitude, smile and be a fun girl that the guys want to be with and spend money on.
    I just thought this deserved repeating. This is exactly what I was trying to get at in the second half of my previous post.



    Oh and StripperTips, your preferance for apple pie over peach pie makes you a fruitist! PIG! LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    But I swear....some of my best friends are fruits!

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Devil's Advocate, here. I like apple pie. I do not like peach pie. I do like peaches....I just don't care for peach pie. I have nothing against peaches. I think peaches and apples should be in the same general area in the supermarket. I do, however, think that a supermarket should only buy as many peaches and apples as they think they are going to sell. One should not purchase extra peaches just to keep the peaches happy, if more people are buying apples. Where is the line?
    Actually, your example does have a couple of significant shortcomings. The first is that you imply that potential fruit customers are spending somewhere around the same amount of money whether they choose to buy apples or peaches. You need to factor in the general observation that the typical customer who prefers apples buys them a dozen at a time and pays extra for organically grown apples, while the typical customer who prefers peaches buys maybe 2 or 3 at a time and shops for bargains. Thus the supermarket typically makes much more profit from a single customer who prefers apples than from a single customer who prefers peaches.

    Next, factor in that customers who prefer peaches may come into the supermarket in groups, may be rowdy and discourteous, and may make a solitary customer shopping for apples in the same produce department very uncomfortable - to the point where he only buys a couple of apples and leaves quickly, and thinks about going to a different supermarket the next time he's out shopping for apples to avoid running into so many customers shopping for peaches.

    Lastly you need to factor in that supermarket space is limited. In other words, only so much fruit will fit in the produce department, so that adding more varieties of peaches means that some varieties of apples will have to be removed. As a consequence, adding more varieties of peaches usually means more peach preferring customers and fewer apple preferring customers will come into the supermarket once all customers have had a chance to see the new selections.

    Also, the "supermarket owner" is not able to simply refuse to sell peaches altogether, because he will be accused by customer groups of anti-peach prejudice. The "supermarket owner" also realizes that many customers who generally prefer apples do like to buy a few peaches once in a while, and vice versa. The "supermarket owner" also knows that there are a handful of peach preferring customers who will buy them by the dozen, and who will complain if there aren't any peaches available. But these big spending peach preferring customers tend to like expensive organically grown peaches and not the bargain variety !

    I'm obviously playing Devil's Advocate as well ! My only purpose in responding from the produce aisle is to illustrate the point that the financial issues affecting the "supermarket owner" go deeper than simply x customers preferring apples and y customers preferring peaches. The "supermarket owner" has to take into account that he is typically earning much more profit per customer from customers who prefer apples, and must attempt to strike a balance of apples versus peaches which results in the supermarket earning the greatest profit using the available produce department space even if a few customers who prefer peaches are unhappy with his decision and even if the bargain peaches don't sell too well.

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    heh, what if i only like steak?

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Well....either you get it....or I'm too stupid to follow. The latter is definitely a possibility. But while all of that is true, that wasn't really what I was getting at. I understand all the market implications. All I'm saying is that there is a difference between feeling that one race over another is superior, versus having a personal preference, or taste, for one "style" versus the other.

    As for you, Ander8son.....the produce section is probably the wrong place. You might wanna try the gay male strip clubs for your steak. Unless you're referring to the ladies as "cows"...in which case I'm gonna sit back and watch you get yer arse kicked

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    Default Re:Black dancers in Upscale gentlemen's clubs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=9697;start=msg119799#msg119 799 date=1086742803
    It's NOT the clubowners girls, it's the customers. The clubowners simply do their best to give the CUSTOMERS what they want. If most of the customers are racist pigs (which they are), the owners are going to hire accordingly.
    Since when does having a personal preference appearance wise make one a racist? Look at the personal ads in your local newspaper. Nearly everybody placing them (white, black, widowed, gay) describes themselves by three letters, and who they are looking for by three letters (SWM, SWF, SBF, etc.). One of those three letters make reference to race. Should we assume that all people who specify they are looking for a partner of a particular race (or particular anything) in their personal ad are bigots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=9697;start=msg120166#msg120 166 date=1086803173
    Having alot of black dancers draws more black customers. Then the white customers get uncomfortable with "too many" black customers in the room and leave. In reality, many of the white customers would prefer to see more black dancers in the clubs - they just don't hang around when there are alot of black CUSTOMERS. Since the white customers have always been known to spend more money in the clubs OVERALL, the owners are obliged to cater to them.
    I'd say what makes big spending customers leave/avoid a club, is when it is taken over by "ghetto" customers (of ANY race). If a group of black customers come in properly dressed, act like gentlemen, and enjoy the show instead of trying to become part of it, that doesn't intimidate or bother me a bit.

    But when I see a bunch of guys come in dressed in FUBU attire and backwards ballcaps, who sit up at the stage in front of everyone, harass the dancers, spend very little, and dance to rap music when it gets played, it is very distracting. When I'm distracted, my mood is not condusive to me spending money, on anybody. I in fact want to get the hell out of there. And it's not a racial thing, because I see as many white "ghetto" customers as nonwhite ones, particularly at non-alcohol clubs because they let 18-20 year old bums in.

    The only common denominator about this bunch is that they are young and are mostly into hard core rap or hip-hop. I grew up on heavy metal myself, and it was probably true that back in the 1980's, the headbanger crowd represented the "problem demographic" at SC's because that's what the younger crowd was into. Now many of those very same guys are in their 30's and 40's, have good paying jobs and money to spend. In 15-20 years from now, that will likely change again.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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