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Thread: Information 4 U: Debt Management

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    Default Information 4 U: Debt Management

    How We Got Out Of Debt By Kim Kiyosaki
    http://www.richdad.com/pages/article_debtmgmt.asp

    More and more people are getting swallowed up by debt. I'm sure you've read and heard many of the statistics and stories in the news.

    One of the keys to financial independence is to get rid of your bad debt and acquire good debt. Bad debt is debt that makes you poor, such as credit card debt, car loans, school loans - this is consumer debt. Good debt is debt you acquire that actually works for you. The best example of good debt is a mortgage loan on a rental property that throws off positive cash flow every month. Good debt is money that you borrow to purchase assets that puts money in your pocket.
    Feel free to comment on the article and/or how you are personally managing your BAD debt.




    Feel free to also try http://www.richdad.com/pages/riqtest1.asp - Rich Dad's Real Estate IQ Test !!


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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Only 2 minor flaws in their approach Vee.
    #1 The way you prioritize debt is not the "months to pay" but the interest rate. A difference of 2% on the rate can keep you in debt months longer, and 5% can make that years. Take any tax advantages into account when ordering debts. (e.g. a 6% deductable mortgage in the 25% bracket only costs 4.5%)
    #2 Student loans CAN be a productive investment if you use the education to earn income. This is not the case if do not use your education to generate a higher than otherwise possible income. Almost no MD leaves their internship without having debt. The skill and knowledge generates an above average income stream for the next 40 years!

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    as far as i'm concerned...the term 'good debt' is an oximoron...there's no such thing as 'good debt'...all debt is bad in my book...and i'm drowning in it...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg118548#msg1185 48 date=1086527856
    as far as i'm concerned...the term 'good debt' is an oximoron...there's no such thing as 'good debt'...all debt is bad in my book...and i'm drowning in it...
    "Good" is really a bad word to use. "Productive" is better. If you have a $10,000 student loan whose after-tax cost is 3% (because it is tax advantaged) you can buy a 5-year treasury note paying 3.95%. This is riskless debt because you are hedged.

    From a psychological perspective no debt is "good" if it interferes with sleeping at night or your peace of mind.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    speaking of debt. this didnt really help me. I have people calling threatening to show up at my husbands job and calling mine blah blah blah. does anyone know of a good debt consolidation or counseling place online or via fax. I really don't do well in person with legal stuff, plus the husband would flip if he knew how bad things were getting. HELP

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    It should be pointed out that many debt consolidation services are in fact profiting from your debt situation. They often "negotiate" with your debtholders in such a way that your credit rating takes a nasty beating. Some may even talk you into putting your assets at risk i.e. your house. Some of the debt counseling services do a very good job of laying out your options, but won't take an active role in dealing with your creditors.

    IMHO the two essential aspects of turning around a bad debt situation are figuring out a budget which you can survive on, and talking to your creditors in regard to realistic repayment. If your debt situation is so bad that a livable budget just isn't in the cards anymore, then you might as well file for bankruptcy ! All creditors would rather receive some money instead of no money, and would rather receive late payments than no payments, so if you communicate to them that you're one step from bankruptcy they very likely will happily accept reduced payments.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg118548#msg1185 48 date=1086527856
    as far as i'm concerned...the term 'good debt' is an oximoron...there's no such thing as 'good debt'...all debt is bad in my book...and i'm drowning in it...

    GOOD DEBT = A mortgage on a rental property that is generating positive cash flow and making you rich

    GOOD DEBT = A business loan for a profitable business that is putting cash in your pocket every month.

    There are tons of good debt, you just have to spend your life buying assets, not liabilities

    Assets (puts money in your pocket)

    Liability (takes money out of your pocket)

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    debt consolidation is basically a chapter 13 bankruptcy WITHOUT the creditor protection. In fact, a consolidation impacts your credit just as bad as a bk.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    well...that's really FUCKED UP...especially since i..along with a lot of other people...fell for that bullshit...these shady ASSHOLES make it look like consolidation is a good thing...i should have known better than that huh...guess there's no hope of me ever getting out of debt now...

    ...and i'll NEVER be convinced that there's such a thing as 'good debt'...like i said...as far as i'm concerned...ALL DEBT is bad...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    I had a good debt idea. Instead of paying for school, I'm going to let them give me that student loan they've been trying so hard to give me for the last few years and leave my money invested. When I'm done with school, I can pay the loan off right away (paying little to no interest) and keep the interest that I've made on my money during that time.




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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg162106#msg1621 06 date=1093316830
    I had a good debt idea. Instead of paying for school, I'm going to let them give me that student loan they've been trying so hard to give me for the last few years and leave my money invested. When I'm done with school, I can pay the loan off right away (paying little to no interest) and keep the interest that I've made on my money during that time.


    That is definately the smart way to go... congratulations on having such a great idea! Hope it works out... it should.


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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg162106#msg1621 06 date=1093316830
    I had a good debt idea. Instead of paying for school, I'm going to let them give me that student loan they've been trying so hard to give me for the last few years and leave my money invested. When I'm done with school, I can pay the loan off right away (paying little to no interest) and keep the interest that I've made on my money during that time.

    Lena,
    Any grace period where you do not pay interest is a zero interest loan for that itme. As long as the matching interest making investment you make is not risky you are safe. Some investments do not sound risky but may be such as a good paying dividend stock in an electric company as South California Edison and PG&E proved. It is not always a clean as it looks, especially if all your eggs are in one basket.

    Not to give Melonie a hard time (and she knows this and the reason I am saying it) but the high dividend yielding natural gas stocks she owns or owned would not be a good way to do this hedging in an invest-and-forget-mode except for a small part of the money. Those are perfectly fine investments as Melonie uses them, with the care she tends to them, but not as you would be using them. I would bet you she would agree with this. Like bras, One size does not fit all.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Embers Flame link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg160274#msg1602 74 date=1093050619
    speaking of debt. this didnt really help me. I have people calling threatening to show up at my husbands job and calling mine blah blah blah. does anyone know of a good debt consolidation or counseling place online or via fax. I really don't do well in person with legal stuff, plus the husband would flip if he knew how bad things were getting. HELP
    credit counseling can be a good option depending on how much you owe. they contact your creditors on your behalf get the interest rates lowered elimate late fees and over the limit fees in case of credit cards. you pay one monthly payment for all your creditors and the service divides it among them and sends them the payment.

    the problem is finding a reputable credit counseling service. some are just scams trying to get your personal information. they all charge a fee for their services. alot of credit unions now offer credit counseling to their members for free for just haveing an account though. which is the best way to make sure its a reputable service.

    also all calls you get from creditors while your using the service you forward to the counseling service. over time the calls stop.
    Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. ~ Mark Twain


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    Monty, every time I've poked my nose into the world of Melonie's type of investing it's scared me! I wish I understood that stuff the way you guys do but there are just WAY too many things that affect the price of stocks and I can't seem to keep track of the most simple. My money is mostly in mutual funds and an IRA. A couple index funds, they seem like good ideas. I don't think I'm very high risk...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg162078#msg1620 78 date=1093314524
    well...that's really FUCKED UP...especially since i..along with a lot of other people...fell for that bullshit...these shady ASSHOLES make it look like consolidation is a good thing...i should have known better than that huh...guess there's no hope of me ever getting out of debt now...

    ...and i'll NEVER be convinced that there's such a thing as 'good debt'...like i said...as far as i'm concerned...ALL DEBT is bad...

    Here's a scenario of good debt. John Doe takes out a small business loan for 25k to open a store. Store is immediatly a success and he is able to pay back his loan and have 4k a month in net profit right off the bat. He is even able to pay off his loan in 2 years due to great business and customer growth. He is in the process opening up 2 additional locations, without a loan. Projected net is 30k a month for the 3 stores, or 360 thousand dollars per year.

    This is an example of good debt.


    Another example - Real estate investor buys rental home for 125k. Puts down 12,500 and gets mortgage for 112,500. Monthly expenses for unit are 750. Unit rents for 1000. Property in area is appreciating at 10% yearly. Investor is realizing 250 per month net income or 3000 per year, and will recover initial cash investment in one year in equity. All additional equity and rent are pure profit. I don't see how you could call something that puts 3000 a year into your pocket a BAD DEBT??? What's bad about it?

    Example C - Real Estate Investor Buys Foreclusure for 30k. Gets loan for 50k for renovations. Renovates home using 50k (debt) and turns around and sells home for 180k. Now without OPM (other peoples money) or GOOD DEBT, none of these transactions would have taken place.

    Obviously using your credit cards to buy clothes and go out to eat is NOT an example of good debt. Using LEVERAGE with OPM to conduct viable business deals IS good debt.


    Maybe all of YOUR dept is BAD, but look a successful entrepreneur or real estate investor and all of their debt is GOOD, becasue without debt, they would have no income!

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    one takes out a small business loan...business fails...money is still owed...what's good about that?

    take out a loan to buy real estate...noone rents or buys the property...money is still owed...job is lost...can't pay the loan back...etc...

    like i said...as far as i'm concerned...ALL DEBT IS BAD...and noone will convince me otherwise...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Topaz, you are not "wrong" but demonstrate a different tolerance for risk. Consider someone who is offered the following bet- "I will flip a certified 'true' coin and if I win you owe me a dollar, but if you win I owe you 2 dollars."

    The bulk of people would take that bet since the stakes are not high but the mathematical expected return is positive .5*(-1) + .5*(+2) >0. This is a more than "fair" (even money) bet. The same bet with higher stakes ... say $1 million generates a different answer, even for people willing to do it for a buck. Different people will drop out from accepting the bet at different amounts, just as people will drop out from accepting at different relative payoffs--some will take it at even odds for a buck but a payoff at $1.05.

    Do not feel like anyone is saying you are "wrong". You just have a different threshold at which you are comfortable.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg164581#msg1645 81 date=1093559291
    one takes out a small business loan...business fails...money is still owed...what's good about that?

    take out a loan to buy real estate...noone rents or buys the property...money is still owed...job is lost...can't pay the loan back...etc...

    like i said...as far as i'm concerned...ALL DEBT IS BAD...and noone will convince me otherwise...


    That does happen, but what about the millions of poople who have made billions of dollars using GOOD DEBT or other peoples money. There are 2 sides to debt. You can use it to your anvantage and get rich off of it, or you can use it to buy liabilities and always be poor. Luckily, I do not have the same attitude about money as you, otherwise i would surely be poor my whole life.

    I guess talking to you is like talking to the wall anyway, since you already convinced yourself that any debt is bad, just don't tell Donald Trump that - he made billions using other peoples money to renovate his buildings in NY.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    people that never or rarely 'buy' things with credit aren't poor...they're also not in debt...and being in debt is NEVER a good thing...owing someone is NEVER a good thing...

    and i seriously doubt that there are millions of people going in debt to make money...more like millions of people working two and three jobs trying to pay off that failed investment...or that student loan...or that mortgage...or that car...or all of the above...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Topaz,
    I think it would benefit you to take a few college level courses in finance and accounting. Their teaching methods employ probability equations such as the one Monty mentioned above.

    Building a bit of debt and paying it off is a great way to create good credit, which means low interest in the future. You have to pay to play. The key is to pay off high interest bearing debt as quickly as possible.

    Some people juggle their credit card debt by transferring balances between multiple cards. This is a pain in the ass for me. I just pay off huge amounts of debt very quickly with earnings from dancing. If I have to pay a 9% interest for a few months, so be it. Of course, we are different. I am willing to do what it takes to make $$$, it doesn't seem that you are willing and/or capable.

    There is no need to re-emphasize how a shitty attitude will cause you to lose out from the starting line though.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Quote Originally Posted by Topaz link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg165301#msg1653 01 date=1093644615
    people that never or rarely 'buy' things with credit aren't poor...they're also not in debt...and being in debt is NEVER a good thing...owing someone is NEVER a good thing...

    and i seriously doubt that there are millions of people going in debt to make money...more like millions of people working two and three jobs trying to pay off that failed investment...or that student loan...or that mortgage...or that car...or all of the above...


    Personally I would not call a mortgage or a car an investment. Well a home can be a LONG TERM investment, but short term it is a huge liability, probably your biggest liability of all. Does a car put money in your pocket every month? NO. Does a home put money in your pocket everyday? NO. Fo both of these things take money out of your pocket every month. ABSOLUTELY! Therefore, these are liabilities, not assets.

    Cars and personal homes are liabilities. They take money, they don't give money. And of course you can lose money if you do bad investments. Read about somebody like Frank McKinney, who used entirely borrowed money to buy and fix up homes and sell them and now is a MULTI millionaire. Tell him that there is no such thing as good debt. Geesh - I am SOOOOOOOOOOO happy I don't have your mentality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=6;threadid=9746;start=msg165328#msg1653 28 date=1093647389

    There is no need to re-emphasize how a shitty attitude will cause you to lose out from the starting line though.
    AMEN!

    Henry Ford (who also BORROWED money to start his business) said it best...


    Whether you think you can do something, or you think you can't, either way you're right.




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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    i'm glad you don't have my 'mentality' either...hope you don't lose your shirt aquiring all of that debt...i mean gaining wealth using other people...i mean other people's money...

    you forgot to mention the fact that one should have the capital to pay all of this debt off...or have money to burn...in order to take all of these risks wisely...
    Why do some people still have to fight...to get the same opportunities...that are given to others??...

    Look out for self...because noone else will...AND
    The greatest revenge in the world...is success...

    Reclusivness...is a good thing.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Topaz.
    I use the sleep-at-night-test. If having debt would cost you a night's sleep then you do not have the stomach for it. If an investment worries you enough to lose sleep over it--do not make it.

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    Default Re:Information 4 U: Debt Management

    Frank McKinney is a true American original; one of a new breed of entrepreneur—an “on the edge� visionary who sees opportunities and creates markets where none existed before. With $50 in his pocket, a 1.8 high school grade point average, and a taste for warmer climes, in 1982 Frank left his native Indiana at age 18 for Florida’s sun, fun and opportunity. In his first job, he earned $180 per week digging sand traps by hand on a Deerfield Beach golf course.

    In 1986, at age 22, Frank founded his first of many real estate development and construction companies. Frank has now established himself as the creative force behind some of the world’s finest and most opulent mansions. A maverick with a flair for promotion, he is without peer in the risky world of “speculative� high-end real estate (homes built without a buyer), shattering price records with each new project.

    Today, at age 40, from his treehouse office overlooking the Atlantic Ocean, Frank creates the finest ultra high-end oceanfront estate homes in the world. Recently, he completed and sold for $28.5 million the largest and most expensive home ever to be built on speculation, containing 72 rooms and 32,000 square feet. In late 2001 another $15 million spec home of Frank's sold in only 25 days. Even though economic times are uncertain, Frank is proceeding with optimism and is currently building 4 direct oceanfront spec homes with a value in excess of $44 million! in Palm Beach County, Florida.

    In addition to a tremendous amount of local press coverage, Frank McKinney and his projects have captivated the media and public for more than a decade. His vision and risk-taking has been the subject of numerous regional and national television, radio and print stories. Frank has recently been featured on the cover of USA Today, on the Oprah Winfrey Show, CBS’s The Early Show, CNN, Discovery Channel, Travel Channel, Paul Harvey, NPR, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Fortune, Barrons, Town and Country, Robb Report, The Nightly Business Report (PBS) and many more. His website, www.frank-mckinney.com, receives more than one million hits a year!

    Armed with rugged looks, a disarming personality, and a willingness to attempt what others don’t even dream of, Frank has truly earned his nickname of the “daredevil developer,� and the “real estate rock czar�, defying both conventional wisdom and the predictions of others to achieve success on his terms. Frank’s daredevil side is irrepressible—he races motorcycles, has a go-cart track in his back yard, and drives to his projects in a bright red 1974 Cadillac station wagon. He is without a doubt one of the most visionary and courageous developers of our time and is acutely aware of what the ultra-wealthy desire in their homes. He views each of the homes he creates as a one-of-a-kind work of art, designed on a canvas of sun-drenched ocean.

    Frank attributes his phenomenal success to a set of 49 Life and Business Philosophies, which he began formulating during his years as a young entrepreneur. These principles have guided Frank through some very tough times, and by following them he has created a life filled not only with financial success and professional recognition, but also with personal and spiritual fulfillment.

    Recently, one of the top ten business colleges in the nation, Northwood University, awarded Frank with its coveted Arthur E. Turner Excellence in Entrepreneurship Award for 2002. The honor recognizes Frank as the top entrepreneur for 2002. He will also receive an honorary degree (Juris Doctorate) from Northwood in May of 2004.

    The editorial staff of the Palm Beach Post identified Frank as one of ten “People To Watch In 2001", he was honored as one of Palm Beach County’s Leading Men in 2000 by the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation and received the Ken Ellingsworth Community Service Award in November, 2002.

    He is the past chairman of the board for the Greater Delray Beach Chamber of Commerce, served as chairman of the steering committee for Delray Beach’s successful 1998 and 2001 All-America City campaign and chaired the "First Night" celebration for 2002 & 2003.


    MCKINNEY, THE PHILANTHROPIST

    “Many of us are fortunate and have been blessed with the ability to succeed not for our sole benefit, but in order to apply the results of our success to assist others.�

    Combining his spirituality with his personal and professional activities is integral to Frank’s success in all aspects of his life. He contributes at least fifteen percent of his time every week to civic and philanthropic causes.

    In 1998 Frank & Nilsa McKinney founded the Caring House Project Foundation, a non-profit (501c3) organization that provides housing to homeless families in South America, The Caribbean and South Florida.

    The Caring House Project’s current focus is in the countries of Haiti (poorest in the Western hemisphere), Nicaragua (2nd poorest), Jamaica and Honduras. In January, 2003 the CHPF finished a village for 150 in Nicaragua. In July, 2003 the CHPF finished a village for 200 in the country of Haiti.

    The Greater Delray Beach Youth Council, a second organization he co-founded 9 years ago, affords young people ages 12-17 a voice and a vote on youth related issues, as well as empowering its members to make a significant contribution to the betterment of the community in which they live.
    MAKE IT BIG!

    49 Secrets for Building a Life of Extreme Success showcases Frank’s life as a young, wildly successful entrepreneur and features his spiritual, personal, business and life philosophies. Frank's message inspires by undisputed results and example, not just words. MAKE IT BIG! was recently honored as one of the Top 10 Real Estate and "Business Life" books of 2002.

    A recent Los Angeles Times book review of MAKE IT BIG! reads in part, "This is one of the best books I've ever read. On my scale of one to 10, this book is an off-the-chart 12! Yes, it's about real estate and how to profit from it, but it's also about how to enjoy life. And it's a philosophical success story of how a highly motivated failure turned his life around. It's not another 'me, me, me' book. McKinney strongly believes in giving back to his community" - Robert J. Bruss.





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    By Mdunn in forum Customer Conversation
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    Last Post: 02-20-2005, 11:13 AM
  5. Hi everyone! information for you!
    By canadaruleseh in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-01-2004, 11:38 PM

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