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Thread: pathetic dealing with money

  1. #1
    Senior Member missmolly's Avatar
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    Default pathetic dealing with money

    How do you all budget and save? I have no idea how much money I will make a night (like most of us) so how do you plan and how do you save? I mean I really need help, I have no savings, no extra money, and I'm always stressed about it. I owe the IRS money for estimated taxes that I don't have and I'm in a good bit of debt.
    "It's hard to say that I was wrong, It's hard to say I miss you, since you've been gone I'm not the same"
    *MisS MoLLy*

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    two things...work more or spend less (or both)

    It's not fun, but you can't really get ahead until you pay off you bad debts. Money probably will never be this good, so if you have even more reason to do it now.

    I'm in debt. I have been in debt since before I started dancing. Since I'm also a dancer, I never knew how much I'd make, but I would always put $1500-2000 in the bank every month. This was to build a rainy day fund. You should have one that will cover about 6 months of living expenses. If you have this, believe me your stress level will go way down. This is an emergency fund only.

    I'd also send money away to my creditors, starting with credit card companies first. If I got a bill, I'd send them whatever money I had after basic bills were paid. I'd only get down about $2000 a month (I had over $50,000 in bad debt)...

    keep plugging away. Like I said, I'm still in debt and I'm still doing this, but I'm able to put more towards debt since I have my emergency fund in the bank.

    I'm almost out and it feels SO liberating. To not have to worry about this will mean I'll have so much more money for other investments so I can get ahead instead of just struggling to get by.

    And by the way, this has been going on for almost 2 years and I work 6-7 days a week with the occasional (like twice a year) week-long break. You don't want to burn out, obviously. Do what works for you, but you must work more than you already are.

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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Are you buying a bunch of crap that you really don't need? Frivolous impulse purchases add up very quickly. I was guilty of that but have definately cut down on impulse buys.

    Also, I deposit my money into the bank. I simply can't manage my finances when I've got loads of cash in hand. It's just too tempting to spend and I get sucked into trying to "make it up" tonight, tomorrow night, this weekend...you get the idea.


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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    If you're like most dancers, you're actually fighting two issues to get around, so it can be difficult to manage money properly.

    Emily's advice is the best- which is to scuttle off a fixed amount per week or month come hell or high water and stay disciplined to do so. The problem with this is the first issue; it creates a paper trail for that amount of cash if you create an account to siphon this into, which in turn has a longer term income reduction as you'll have to claim that on your tax return the following year. Thus only 60-70% of that scuttle fund is really useable versus 100% of it now if it's held (and likely spent!) in cash.

    As far as taxes go, most tip-based career women I know claim their monthly transactions (deposits, checks, withdrawals) + about 10% to prevent audit, and the remainder they hold and use in cash value. They basically only use accounts for rent, car payments, insurance, etc.etc. and only deposit very closely to their monthly expenses and keep the rest in cash form. If you manage your money as such now, adding a savings account or secondary for managing a rainy day account or getting ahead, your estimated for the next calendar year may swell in quite an unpleasant fashion.

    The second problem is standard for all people, which is the discipline of setting aside money and not caving in to touching it except where REALLY appropriate. Define a clear set of rules on the onset then stick with them.. i.e. declare to yourself those funds will never be used to purchase X, Y, Z, but only for emergency conditions A, B and C.. etc.etc.

    Good luck and don't feel so bad. As humans, many of us ALWAYS go nuts when it comes to spending- it's a natural desire! We work hard and it's only natural to want to reap the rewards from our efforts. A little crunching and cash hording is a good thing and can definately get you ahead in a short period of time.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  5. #5
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    The thing that helps me is to set goals for myself.

    You should be able to figure out what you're averaging a month. From that, make yourself a budget. Then set some realistic goals for yourself. Set a long-term goal and a short-term goal. Your long-term goal might be to pay off the IRS and get out of debt. Set a goal for that, a year, two years, three years, whatever is manageable, but keep that in mind, keep telling yourself, "by x, I'm going to be out of debt if I stick to my budget. Them put that money towards your debt every month.

    I also like to set little short-term goals for myself as well. Something nice for myself a month or two down the road that I can look forward to. Then when I'm tempted to spend money frivolously that is not in my budget, I keep reminding myself that if I do, I won't meet my goals.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  6. #6
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Saphire and Emily are right.
    The easiest way to not spend money you do not want to is to not have it available to spend. You have an ideal time to figure out your average income-- the estimated taxes you fill out. Figure the amount you owe as a percentage of your income and deposit that in s separate place like a savings account or money market fund. Say as a hypthetical that is 30%.

    Every night put 40%-50%(depending) of your take home pay in a place you do not touch. Once a week or more frequently deposit it in the bank and never borrow from it. If you ever slip, make yourself work an extra day that week and pay the savings twice what you borrowed from it. Put the money you do not owe to the IRS in a separate account and build that safety net. When you get more, you can get fancier, When you get a lot you can be Melonie. LOL. You will find yourself saying "I can't afford that gizmo." more often--that is what you are supposed to do.

    You will have the numbers in hand. Figure your absolute minimum requirements. Rent, medical, light, heat/cooling, food and say to yourself "Where did the rest of it go?"

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    God/dess Zofia's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    10% every night to the savings account. 30% to the taxes account. Put the rest in checking. If you have a computer, get MS Money or Quicken set up your checking, savings and tax accounts. Build a budget from there. Write checks for everything, minimize the cash payments. (Cash payments are very easy to lose track of.) Don't use the debit card, unless someplace won't take a check. Then record it right away. Don't use the credit card, except for travel. Set up an account for each credit card on MS Money or Quicken.

    Pay your credit cards off each month if you can. If not, pay as much as you can. Take advantage of all the gimicks to get a little off, like online payments for some bills. Take advantage of buyers clubs like Sam's or Costco. Bike to work instead of driving only if you work days, especially if the club has a shower. It's great exercise. Don't buy a health club membership, unless you really make use of it. Instead, buy some weights off of ebay, run, bike and swim.

    Evaluate each purchase. Will this make me mone? If yes, how much, and how soon? If no, then do I need this for some critical reason? (Like, the brakes on the car are going. But not, a new PDA would be really cool.) Do you need 500 chanels on your TV, or will broadcast work? What about internet service? In short, cut-cut-cut. Cut out the meals out. Let boyfriend pay. What are boyfriends for anyway? Otherwise, shop at farmers markets or discount grocery stores. Buy bulk foods, not prepared ones. It may take some time to cook, but it's better for you and cheaper. Also, don't go to the grocery store hungry. Think about joining a CSA. For $400-$500 you'll get more veggies than you can ever deal with.

    HTH
    Z

    One disclosure, I own stock in Microsoft which makes MS Money. I would hope you use the product, but the other one works too.

  8. #8
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    It's all a matter of establishing priorities. I follow a priority structure of the IRS first, then absolute necessities like mortgage and utilities and food and gasoline, then any outstanding debt payments like car loan or credit cards, then savings and investments, and then finally mad money. I work on a monthly budget, where in any given month the first $2000 I earn goes to the IRS, then the next $1000 goes to mortgage and utilities and food, then the next $500 or whatever goes to loan payments and credit card balances, then the next $1000 goes to savings and investments. I actually keep separate envelopes in my home safe, and put my money in the envelopes as I earn it. It is only toward the end of the month after I have already earned $2000 + $1000 + $500 + $1000 = $4,500 and all of my envelopes are 'full' that I allow myself to spend anything at all on something frivolous.

    If I don't work enough days to earn $4,500 in that month, and my envelopes aren't yet 'filled', then NOTHING gets spent on niceties. This system serves as an incentive for me to make sure I keep at it until I earn $5,000 or so in a month, at which point I can "reward myself" with something non-essential using only the last $500 I earned after my $4,500 budget was met.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    I do envelopes like Melonie, but I do it weekly. I know that I have about $600/month in bills to pay, which means that I put $150/week in the bank for bills. I also try to save $5-600/week for my other goals. So the first day I work in a week, I'll put $150 in my bank envelope and the rest in the savings envelope. The next day I'll split money between my savings envelope and the taxes envelope. Then the next day or two go in savings.

    The only envelope I ever touch is the bank envelope, which goes to the bank every Sunday.

    Lena



  10. #10
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    I think the key to theses successful approaches is discipline and sticking to what works. Think of it as the financial equivalent of dieting.

  11. #11
    Senior Member missmolly's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Thaks so much for the help!
    So I've decided:
    I want to shoot for 800$ a week
    pay 532 in bills,food,gas.
    save 20% (160$)a week
    that leaves me with 108$ a week to mess with.(sorry no matter how disciplined I try to be I will always need some shopping)

    The bills I have budgeted includes enough money to have my credit cards(which are in a bowl of water in the freezer) paid off before the fall semester starts in August.

    For a year I was making 2000-3000 grand a week at my club. The last 5 or 6 months I was lucky to make 400$ a week working 4-5 nights. I don't know what's going on with our club but if this keeps up I might have to leave my happy home. It's a scary thought.


    Well anywayz, thanx again for all your help gettng my pathetic financials organized.
    "It's hard to say that I was wrong, It's hard to say I miss you, since you've been gone I'm not the same"
    *MisS MoLLy*

  12. #12
    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    just stay focused

    it's so not fun to have a great night and have all your earnings go to paying a bill, but it's worth it in the end.

    I keep reminding me thatit's all for the greater good. And yes, defnitely splurge a little every now and then to treat yourself for a job well done.

  13. #13
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    For me the key is to live inexpensively. I have built up a nice collection of exercise videos: pilates, tae bo, aerobics, tai chi, yoga. Along with some basic weights, skipping rope and pedometre.... I don't need a gym membership. Besides, I find just walking, skipping and doing Pilates is all I need to stay in adequate shape (or better if I really apply myself).

    I have reduced my "going to the movies" spending as my flatmate has an extensive DVD collection. I don't need to spend in that area due to having a flatmate that does! I also evaluate whether or not seeing a movie on "the small screen" will reduce my overall experience of it... hence this has cut down how many movies I desire to see on the "big screen".

    As for buying dancer attire... I only buy one new outfit if I have managed to sell one. This is the same for books. I only buy new books once I have sold one I already own.

    I use a pre-pay phone so that I can keep the costs of THAT under control. I also use smspup.com to send SMS (only available for Australians).

    I look to ebay.com.au for bargains. I've won some great items for rather cheap prices here.

    Wait until the stocktake / end of financial year sales. You'll have more bargaining power at this time of year as stores/people want to move stock.

    Second hand items aren't that bad...

    Basically reduce your living expenses as much as possible. If you have any bad/unproductive debt, concentrate on paying that off before concentrating on saving any money. Pay your bills a day or two prior to them being due. If no debt, cocentrate on saving your money so you can invest it.

    Sorry this was long. I'm a little tired and can blab on when tired sometimes... LOL


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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Okay Vee you taught me a new Aussie-ism. "Stocktake". I presume that mean pre-inventory in American lingo. Right before they take inventory of what goods they have on the shelf for inventory taxes (a kind of property tax for retail). That varies by state in the US (any such taxes are state or local) and is usually in the winter around here.

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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    just save a percentage, so it doesn't matter how much you make a night. I would say to aim for 25% if possible. even if you can't one of your bills or whatever you must make sure that saving is your most important bill of all. They call it "pay yourself first" Let the water bill or whetever wait till next week, but make sure you stick with your savings through thick and thin. You can start at a smaller percentage at first like 10% and work your way up to 25-40%. If a dancer saves 30+% of her money for 10 years, she should be able to retire after 10 years if she is smart with her money.

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    Veteran Member ladysummer's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    No matter how much I make in a night, I always save 30% and put it in my savings account. If I think I am going to come up short, I will work more. If I make more than expected, I will often save more than 30%. It helps me stay grounded and responsible with my money.

  17. #17
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Quote Originally Posted by montythegeek link=board=6;threadid=9830;start=msg130616#msg1306 16 date=1088565440
    Okay Vee you taught me a new Aussie-ism. "Stocktake". I presume that mean pre-inventory in American lingo. Right before they take inventory of what goods they have on the shelf for inventory taxes (a kind of property tax for retail). That varies by state in the US (any such taxes are state or local) and is usually in the winter around here.
    I learnt something new too.. I didn't realise it was an Aussie term. Hmm...

    None-the-less, the Stocktake sales happen around May/June just before the end of the financial year on June 30. You are right.. it is when every store takes inventory of what goods they do have to see (usually) what has and has not sold... what they need to move.. before the end of the financial year.

    You are right, it is around winter time here too. Winter right now


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  18. #18
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    After each night I work I take out the GST (total money divide by 11).

    At the end of each working week I take out any income tax (if I earn $130 or under it is tax free) according to the tax table my tax accountant has given me.

    With my after-tax money I then put it all into savings (ING Direct Savings Maximiser Account - currently earning 5.45%) UNLESS I have a bill due in which case I will pay the bill.

    I pay my bills when they are due or one day before they are due (this includes rent, electricity, any expenses). Otherwise I "pay myself first" by putting all my money into my Savings Maximiser account.

    The majority of my bills are debit-ed to my Visa Debit Card (or the bank account my Visa card is linked) so all I have to do is make sure the right amount is the bank account. I do not use any credit.

    I keep a balance of $100 in my "spending" (everyday) bank account. I allow myself that much to spend when and if I want it. However I always make sure that I have $100 min. balance (I don't get charged any account keeping fees - the bank gets its money in other ways).

    I have unlimited withdrawals with my ING Direct Savings Maximiser account that's why I keep my money in there not a normal "everyday" bank account. I just withdraw it from that account into my nominated bank account whenever I need it.



    I find that not having cash in front of me (or even in envelopes in the house) helps me save more and spend less. If I have cash on me, I usually spend it unwisely.


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  19. #19
    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    GCG/Vee is right. You know yourself and the key to controlling ones spending is disciplining yourself to make the decisions that you REALLY want to make. It is the financial equivalent of controlling your eating habits. You by nature want 2 things in conflict with each other--to eat that chocolate and to have a body-to-die-for.

    Same as with a diet, if you go too far at point A for the immediate gratification, you have to get yourself back on to the course YOU want ASAP or you end up with the nickname of Goodyear.

  20. #20
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    After each night I work I take out the GST (total money divide by 11).

    At the end of each working week I take out any income tax (if I earn $130 or under it is tax free) according to the tax table my tax accountant has given me.

    With my after-tax money I then put it all into savings (ING Direct Savings Maximiser Account - currently earning 5.45%) UNLESS I have a bill due in which case I will pay the bill.

    I pay my bills when they are due or one day before they are due (this includes rent, electricity, any expenses). Otherwise I "pay myself first" by putting all my money into my Savings Maximiser account.

    The majority of my bills are debit-ed to my Visa Debit Card (or the bank account my Visa card is linked) so all I have to do is make sure the right amount is the bank account. I do not use any credit.

    I keep a balance of $100 in my "spending" (everyday) bank account. I allow myself that much to spend when and if I want it. However I always make sure that I have $100 min. balance (I don't get charged any account keeping fees - the bank gets its money in other ways).

    I have unlimited withdrawals with my ING Direct Savings Maximiser account that's why I keep my money in there not a normal "everyday" bank account. I just withdraw it from that account into my nominated bank account whenever I need it.
    Just a small reminder that GoldCostGirl's 'system' is based on Australian tax law and tax collection procedures, which are very different than US/Canadian tax law and tax collection procedures. Following are the major differences.

    The US does not have a GST/VAT or other straight percentaged based tax (unfortunately, they make up for this by having a regressive tax percentage based on annual income). However, the US federal self-employment tax is pretty close to a straight percentage based tax and typically amounts to 8% of gross income for most girls (after counterbalancing tax deductions are figured in).

    The US does not have any weekly thresholds for tax withholding, and instead income tax percentages and exclusions are based on annualized gross income. This requires you to forecast your anticipated income for the entire year, and to calculate a likely percentage for federal income taxes which will apply to you at the end of the year (which typically falls in the 15-25% range, but can vary widely based on personal factors such as filing status, total gross annual income, business expense deductions etc). State and local income tax percentages must also be withheld if you live in a state/city which levees income taxes (and these tax rates vary even more widely from nothing to 10% or so depending on where you live and how much you earn). You should then withhold the likely total percentage of your income for self-employment tax, federal income tax, and state/local income taxes, on a nightly basis before doing anything else with the money you earned that night.

    GoldCoastGirl doesn't indicate how or how often her withheld tax money must be sent in to the government. In the US that tax money must be paid in the form of an estimated tax check sent to the federal and state/local governments quarterly i.e. April 15th, June 15th, Sept 15th, and January 15th. Then on April 15th of the following year you actually file your tax return(s) declaring the precise amount of income you earned the previous year, you calculate the actual dollar amounts of the various taxes due, and you 'square up' the amounts you previously paid in estimated taxes versus the precise amounts you actually owe from tax return calculations via an 'adjustment' to the April 15th tax payment(s) which gets sent in with your tax return(s).

    If you don't set aside estimated tax money on a nightly basis, it can be extremely difficult to come up with 8% + 15-25% + 0-10% of all the money you have earned in the previous 3 months when the estimated tax due date rolls around. For even a typical dancer earning $1000 per week, estimated tax checks might add up to $3-4,000+ every 3 months. For a very successful dancer earning $2,500 per week, estimated tax checks might add up to $10-12,000+ every 3 months. Even if you do manage to come up with all of the tax money you owe by next April 15th and send it in with your tax return(s), if you have not previously made the required estimated tax payments you can/will be hit with a penalty surcharge (equivalent to an additional tax of up to 10% over and above the amount of taxes you actually owe) .

    Also, in the US, all transactions regarding deposits and withdrawls to/from bank accounts, investment accounts etc. are subject to monitoring by the IRS and state/local tax agencies. This is of course no problemo if you declare 100% of your actual gross income and pay estimated taxes on that actual gross income. However, for those who are inclined to be "forgetful" or who are subject to math errors *wink*, such financial transaction records can easily be used as proof of tax underpayment/tax evasion.

    Finally, in the US any interest or dividend payments to you based on your bank account or investment account balances must also be included as part of your gross income, and must also be included when calculating and sending in your estimated tax payment checks to the government every three months. This interest and dividend income is NOT subject to self-employment tax, but IS subject to federal and state/local income tax (although sometimes different tax rate percentages will apply).

    PS the 5.45% interest rate that GoldCoastGirl is able to obtain on her "money market" investment account is based on Australian Dollars not US dollars - typical US dollar denominated "money market" investment accounts will only earn 2-3% interest right now.

  21. #21
    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Oooh... Thanks Melonie! I posted my information because I do know that there are some Australian dancers subscribed to StripperWeb.

    Also, I pay my tax when it is due after I've done my tax return (the tax/financial year runs 1 July until 30 June). I do not have to pay monthly or quarterly since I'm self-emplyed. I leave it in another Savings Maximiser account and make deposits only. I'm disciplined enough to not touch THAT money.

    What I do have to pay quarterly is my GST. I do this on a cash basis not accured via a BAS (Business Activity Statement). I also deposit this money into yet another Savings Maximiser account and, once again, do NOT touch it.

    I have to do the GST after each night I work - it cannot be done weekly or monthly.

    We are the same in that any interest or dividend payments I receive I must declare as it is regarded as income (even if you re-invest it into the investment).

    Also, I'm declaring 100% of my income this financial year so I don't have to worry about my bank statements being wrong or anything. What I forgot to mention is that a self-employed individual (a dancer who has an ABN - Australian Business Number) who earns $50,000 turnover (pre-tax income) has to register for GST and fill in a BAS every quarter.

    Once again, what I speak about only applies to Australians.

    Also, I've put it in my signature that whenever I speak in monetary terms I'm referring to AUD.


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  22. #22
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:pathetic dealing with money

    Thanks GoldCoastGirl. Just to keep the US vs Australian tax law differences clear, in the US an independent contractor dancer does not need to apply for a business tax ID# and can use her own SS#. However, if a US dancer figures that she will owe more than $700 in taxes during a single year (meaning that she'll earn over $10,000 or so = $200 per week), then she is required to file estimated tax forms and to send in estimated tax payments quarterly.

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