Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 37 of 37

Thread: Employees or Independent Contractors

  1. #26
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Gettin the fuck outta Dodge!
    Posts
    14,241
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Actually we are kinda like a store renting mall space. Stores in malls or shopping centers generally have to abide by 'community' standards as far as opening hours, signage, and other common business practices that affect the overall image and customer traffic in the mall or shopping center. Ever been to a mall where every store didn't open at the same time? No! And those stores pay to be there. The owners sign lengthy contracts with the mall owners specifying how they must manage many aspects of their business, all while paying the mall owners for use of the space.

    Of course for simplicity's sake, we would be more easily compared to hairstylists at a salon (a comparison which has been used a few times before on this site). MANY salons rent the chair/booth space to the stylists and dictate many aspects of how the stylists run their booths. It is part of the tradeoff for the stylist not having to front the much larger expense of opening their own salon and advertising for customers. The salon wants to maintain a general image in order to help maximize overall business (so the stylists can continue to pay that booth rent and/or sale percentage).

    We pay the SC for use of their facilities to operate our business (not to entertain their customers), and like a salon, the SC wants to maintain a certain image and standard of practices to keep customers coming in the door - which means we will have to follow some general club rules. We want the SC to keep customers coming in the door so we can make money off them. We don't have the resources to open our own club so we are obliged to pay the clubowners for use of their facilities.

    I don't see where the club having general rules about how dancers operate creates a problem re: labor laws. If that were the case, salon owners would be operating illegally as well and something tells me there would've been something done about THOSE common practices had they been illegal.

    I think most dancers confuse the issue because we don't have a physical storefront or booth. However, in reality each dancer is her own little storeowner in a mall(club). She operates her store, for the most part, the way she feels is best, but she has to follow a few guidelines set by the mall(club) in order to uphold a general standard which customers can identify in order to keep coming back. The mall(club) will cancel or choose not to renew the contract of any storeowner(dancer) that doesn't follow mall(club) guidelines, or take other actions to help ensure every storeowner(dancer) does her part to maintain the mall(club) standard. This is all done, ultimately, to keep paying customers coming, which is what keeps us all in business.

    Strippers are business owners and there is no other way to look at it!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  2. #27
    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2004
    Location
    Virginia countryside.
    Posts
    3,299
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Just a quick question for the entertainers who actually are sub contractors.
    Do you you take advantage of government grants for small business and minority businesses?
    As a dj sub contractor,I write off a portion of my rent,elec bill,cable,internet,etc because i use 1 room in my house as an office.
    Im afraid i dont know the exact amount,I pay an accountant for that,then i write off part of his fee the next year.

    Once you get legal,the write offs are endless!!!!

  3. #28
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Gettin the fuck outta Dodge!
    Posts
    14,241
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    This is the first year I've had a whole separate room as an office and yes I'll be writing it off.

    I have often thought about taking advantage of government services for minority/women-owned businesses. Not sure what I could use to qualify for a grant....new 1000cc boobs perhaps? LOL I think in this line of work it would be difficult to prove the need, but with the costume biz I've started I can think of all kinds of ways to qualify. Might just do that!

    Travel expenses, rental cars, costumes, shoes, skincare, supplies, business license....all write offs.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  4. #29
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Do you you take advantage of government grants for small business and minority businesses
    yeah, I wish ! Unfortunately these sorts of grant decisions are made by politicians, and generally are politically rather than financially motivated. Translation - black woman wants to open a day care center ? APPROVED same black woman wants to open a strip club or a webcam farm ? DENIED

    Once you get legal,the write offs are endless!!!!
    Well, not endless, but pretty significant. I claim as many as I can, resulting in a tax return that is 1/4" thick ! However, this is the very reason that calls for treating dancers as employees puts fear in my heart. Employee status would disallow virtually all tax deductions other than costumes and shoes (which would still qualify as an employee business expense deductions under the 'uniforms' provision).

  5. #30
    Veteran Member livenudegirlsunite's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Quote Originally Posted by onyxxx link=board=27;threadid=9848;start=msg118466#msg118 466 date=1086495730
    I think they should uphold the laws of an IC (at least here in Texas, which I have looked up in the past and they state that as an IC I should not have to share my tips with the club among other things)
    I don't understand sometimes why clubs get away with it, although I do know it takes more than one person to stand up for our rights, and honestly, none of the girls here even think about it but me.
    If women stood up for themselves and eachother we would not make an average of 40% less than men. Look at what happened to Suzanne Sommers when she tried to stand up for her rights for equal pay on Three's Company.
    I don't understand it either. It amazes me that we actually descended from the people who started the American Revolution. What happened?
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

  6. #31
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Gettin the fuck outta Dodge!
    Posts
    14,241
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    We can't have it both ways. We will either have the opportunity to make good money the way WE see fit (for the most part), or we will be paid pisspoor hourly wages and be worked like dogs. I'll take the former - IC for me.
    LOL that sounds like a slogan. IC for me. heeehee

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  7. #32
    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2004
    Location
    Virginia countryside.
    Posts
    3,299
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Quote Originally Posted by livenudegirlsunite link=board=27;threadid=9848;start=msg119462#msg119 462 date=1086692164
    Quote Originally Posted by onyxxx link=board=27;threadid=9848;start=msg118466#msg118 466 date=1086495730
    I think they should uphold the laws of an IC (at least here in Texas, which I have looked up in the past and they state that as an IC I should not have to share my tips with the club among other things)
    I don't understand sometimes why clubs get away with it, although I do know it takes more than one person to stand up for our rights, and honestly, none of the girls here even think about it but me.
    If women stood up for themselves and eachother we would not make an average of 40% less than men. Look at what happened to Suzanne Sommers when she tried to stand up for her rights for equal pay on Three's Company.
    I don't understand it either. It amazes me that we actually descended from the people who started the American Revolution. What happened?
    It started a shitstorm.So did the fact that the other white girl was hooked up with Lavar burton.
    But that was 20+ years ago,most of the entertainers i work with were not even born.
    Most would identify better with a Friends anology,where all of them got paid the same,even the females.

    It all goes on the shoulders of Rosie the Riviter,had she returned to the home after wwII,we might still have a country where a single breadwinner can support their family,and mothers stay home to raise their kids.Even the decay of our social structure can be traced to this exact time.

  8. #33
    Member
    Joined
    May 2004
    Posts
    19
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Of course there are pros and cons to employee vs IC, as well as to unionization. I would suggest, however, an altogether different way of looking at it which I believe would allow the protections of a union as well as the freedoms of the "traditional" IC status. Many states have licensing requirements for dancers, just as all of them have licensing requirements for other professionals like doctors. A doctor must pass the USMLE in order to practice, but s/he also has to graduate from an approved school. Who approves the school? Not the government, but an entirely private entity which is made up of doctors. Now, to apply it to the SC, say there was a nationwide professional organization for strippers. They get the cities and states on board by saying that they can police the SC world better than any city councilman or law enforcement group, root out prostitution, reduce drug use...whatever the mainstream world thinks is so morally reprehensible about the SC. The cities and states give back to that professional organization the ability to license all dancers in that city or state, likely getting a small kickback from member dues, and suddenly it doesn't matter whether you're a seasoned dancer who goes around their own little circuit of clubs or the naive newbie who doesn't know what to expect as she goes in for her first night at a seedy neighborhood SC: Everybody would have the same rules and the playing field would be even. As Melonie said, it is becoming not the best dancer or the best conversationalist that is making the money, but the girl who is willing to go ever further with the customer, and this is exactly the escalation of customer expectation that will drive club after club and girl after girl to follow the money down to places that nobody really wants to be. As it stands, a club can replace any dancer for virtually any reason...they bring in a naive young thang and their problem is solved. Club isn't making enough money? Bring in more girls (even though it reduces the earning potential of every one of them). A licensing organization made up of the dancers themselves would be able to prevent that sort of activity, and unlike the current state of affairs, the club could not simply hire around the rabble-rouser, because every dancer in the city/state is still part of the organization. Within this model, every dancer could have all the benefits of being an IC, but there would be actual enforcement of the laws and standards already on the books to protect ICs from unscrupulous clubs/customers. Have an owner who thinks you're their personal property? Now you can either leave, or protest and be replaced. With such a group there would be a means for the redress of grievances which would be entirely in the corner of the dancer (but maybe I'm mistaken and all clubs are wonderful...). For the record, I'm not a big fan of unions, because they're typically arms of bigger unions that are only concerned with taking in dues and paying lip service to their members while eating out of management hands, but I really do think that a professional organization would go a long way to protecting the interests of all dancers, preventing the downward spiral of customer expectations, and removing some of the stigma of taking ones clothes off for money. Sorry if I got long-winded.

  9. #34
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2002
    Location
    way south of the border
    Posts
    25,932
    Thanks
    612
    Thanked 10,563 Times in 4,646 Posts
    Blog Entries
    3
    My Mood
    Cynical

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    It all goes on the shoulders of Rosie the Riviter,had she returned to the home after wwII,we might still have a country where a single breadwinner can support their family,and mothers stay home to raise their kids.Even the decay of our social structure can be traced to this exact time
    Absolutely correct ! You might also include vast improvements in transportation and communications systems, which have effectively eliminated the possibility of tight "local labor markets" which gave rise to union leverage and high wages for blue collar workers living in the immediate area of a large company. Today, unfilled jobs at such a company are advertised worldwide and applicants may come from thousands of miles away, removing the union leverage and the necessity of paying higher wages to retain existing local employees. Same principle applies to unfilled jobs at high earnings potential upscale strip clubs, which some dancers right here on this BBS would be willing to travel cross-country to check out !

  10. #35
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Gettin the fuck outta Dodge!
    Posts
    14,241
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=9848;start=msg119500#msg119 500 date=1086700237
    It all goes on the shoulders of Rosie the Riviter,had she returned to the home after wwII,we might still have a country where a single breadwinner can support their family,and mothers stay home to raise their kids.Even the decay of our social structure can be traced to this exact time.
    In all the history I studied, Rosie the Riviter was for the most part FORCED back home so the returning soldiers could take over the jobs. The Rosies whose husbands were killed in combat often found themselves destitute and "forced" into prostitution to make a living because they were suddenly out of a job. Add to that the fact that after the war there wasn't NEARLY the demand for riviters and you've got an unemployment problem. I'm thinking that didn't have the best impact on society.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  11. #36
    God/dess Silverback's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2004
    Location
    On board the Kobayashi Maru
    Posts
    2,387
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    State targets realty brokers
    Biggest firms face fines for not buying workers' comp insurance for their agents.
    By Andrew LePage -- Bee Staff Writer
    Published 2:15 am PDT Saturday, June 19, 2004
    Get weekday updates of Sacramento Bee headlines and breaking news. Sign up here.

    The state labor agency is poised to cite a "sizable percentage" of California's 20 largest residential real estate brokerages for failing to buy workers' compensation insurance for their sales agents.
    Assuming that the targeted brokers don't prevail on an initial appeal, the state could fine them $1,000 per agent and shut them down, sidelining all their sales agents until they can secure the insurance, which can take weeks.

    Jose Millan, deputy secretary for enforcement at the Labor and Workforce Development Agency, said the brokers either have no workers' compensation coverage for agents or have inadequate coverage. He declined to be more specific and would not name the brokers that will receive citations soon.

    It is unlikely that any capital region brokerages are large enough to rank in the top 20 statewide, as based on number of employees.

    Tipped off that some real estate brokers were shirking their responsibility, state labor officials warned early last month that after June 15 they would begin issuing stop-work orders and levy fines up to $100,000 against brokers without workers' compensation insurance to cover sales agents.

    The labor agency has compared a list of state-licensed real estate brokers to one from the Workers' Compensation Insurance Rating Bureau of California to identify those who lack workers' compensation coverage or have inadequate coverage.

    "They've got to understand this is not something we can ignore. We have to enforce the law, and if they're not happy with the law, they should seek to change it," Millan said.

    Brokers have 10 days to either appeal a citation to the director of the state Department of Industrial Relations or to obtain insurance, Millan said. For larger employers, the insurance can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

    Any broker who doesn't prevail on appeal will be issued a stop-work order and must cease all business until the insurance is obtained, Millan said. A fine of $1,000 per agent, not to exceed $100,000 per company, is effective the day the citation is issued, he added.

    The state labor agency will cite brokers with no policy, while it will be up to the state Department of Insurance to investigate cases where brokers appear to have inadequate coverage, said Millan, who referred to the latter cases as "fraud."

    Though many real estate brokers consider their sales agents independent contractors, labor officials insist that state law considers agents as employees for the purpose of workers' compensation insurance.

    In a recent bulletin urging its members to make sure they have workers' compensation insurance, the California Association of Realtors stated that it has "always recommended that brokers carry workers' compensation insurance even though some older (court) cases indicate that it may not be necessary under some circumstances."

    Millan said his agency had planned initially to check to see whether any of the state's top 50 brokerages were operating without insurance but decided to stop at 20 because there were so many violations within that first group.

    "We're stopping here (to investigate those identified so far), and then we'll march on," Millan said
    Seemed a relevant article to the topic. Note the portion in bold. California's going after Real Estate Brokers. Might Strip Clubs be next?
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

  12. #37
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re:Employees or Independent Contractors

    All I know is that in Illinois it is ILLEGAL to charge an employee to work. However, every 2 weeks I get a paycheck (with the wrong amount in taxes taken out) AND I have to pay a "house fee" before going on shift.

    Although, I do get to come and go as I please...I don't have a schedule and I do not need to let them know what days/times I will be working...I do not like the fact that I get no benefits for being an employee...and I don't like being paid by the hour if they are going to keep f*&king up my taxes. /rant

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-12-2009, 06:30 AM
  2. Ripoff Contractors
    By whirlerz in forum Dollar Den
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-12-2007, 12:09 PM
  3. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-30-2006, 09:06 PM
  4. are we our own contractors?
    By trixi1382 in forum Newbie Board
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 06-08-2006, 01:50 PM
  5. Employees or Independent Contractors
    By Silverback in forum Shop Talk
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-29-2004, 08:18 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •