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Thread: Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

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    Member catfly's Avatar
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    Default Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    We are being faced with a 6 foot rule possibly going into effect sometime between September and December. I was wondering if anyone works in a club with a stupid law like this, and what creative things are you doing to make money? Or how do you make money? Drink hustle?

    We would have to stay 6 feet away from the customer WHEN NUDE. We would also stay no contact nude or not. So stage dancing would still be okay. But private shows would have to go. :'(
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    I work in Washington state and the we are required to have a 6ft distance when nude and 4 when giving a dance, but we have to be clothed (however the city of Seattle has different variations).
    There is no way that anyone could make money, IF we were to follow this law, why would any customer want to spend $20 on a dance at 4ft away, when they could watch us, naked, onstage for no additional charges, it makes no sense.
    How many clubs are in your area? I ask because there are quite a few here and only one obeys the law, it's difficult for the cops to bust several clubs rather than one.
    My other question is, is what are the charges if dancers break that law? Is the dancer responsible more than the club, or does it go both ways?


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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    There is like 50 clubs here. Not sure how they are going to do the charges if we get busted. We will have to see if this law passes. We will know by September.
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    typically, when zero contact ordinances go into effect dancer's earnings potential drops like a stone. Then some dancers figure out that if they want to keep paying their bills that they're going to have to bend or break the zero contact law in order to convince customers to spend significant amounts of money.

    However, once dancers start routinely breaking the zero contact law, a few smart dancers will figure out that if getting busted means a $500 fine and a misdemeanor charge, and if getting busted for outright prostitution also means a $500 fine and a misdemeanor charge, that they might as well just start offering 'extras' and start earning huge money as long as the legal consequences of getting busted are the same as a contact lap dance.

    Ironically, passage of a zero contact ordinance usually produces an actual result of the clubs being dirtier than ever! And ironically, a dancer busted for 'extras' is actually LESS likely to be convicted than a dancer busted for a full contact lap dance, because her huge earnings make it possible for her to hire a good lawyer and mount legal appeals !

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    we have always had a 3 foot rule/no contact dances up here- granted, it's a way tougher sale to make, but it (currently) works, because dancers are hired through agents, and agents (at least most) won't book girls that are consistently known to break the rules.

    Vancouver is not the kind of place that dancers come to make lots of money, lol.

    Our clubs are riding such a thin line right now, with city ordinances and rising insurance costs for 'exotic bars' that a major fine for any club could be the last straw that leads to closure.

    Who knows though, I think a lot will change as we get closer to the 2010 olympics. I personally predict a loosening of contact laws, and I'm not happy about it.

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Can you legal sell topless or pastie no contact dances or is zero nudity and zero contact off stage?

    Does this distance law have a stage height requirement? If so what is it? Would pedestal dances like they do on the main floor in New Orleans an option?

    Some other thoughts-

    Do you have a VIP set up? Is it a flat fee by the hour by chance?

    If not, see if the club can set one (or a few) up and maybe dancers can offer nude stage shows in there on a go go box like a Platinum Stage.




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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    6 foot rule here. Tigerlilly, pasties would not work in my area because the breast is still exposed. And exposed breast (even if areola is covered) is considered nudity.

    Why do private shows have to go?

    How do my coworkers and I make money? By bending the rules. Who wants a no contact bikini dance?

    Melonie is right. Even though the rules are bent to a certain degree by everybody, Some girls are straight out prostitutes.


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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    How do my coworkers and I make money? By bending the rules. Who wants a no contact bikini dance?

    Melonie is right. Even though the rules are bent to a certain degree by everybody, Some girls are straight out prostitutes
    Would you agree that this is a fair statement ...

    When zero contact laws are enacted, totally law abiding dancers are essentially bankrupted out of the dancing business - because they can actually now earn more working straight jobs than they can earn trying to sell law abiding entertainment which club customers are unwilling to buy.

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    for the most part, yes. Even if the rules are strictly enforced within the club and all girls abided, what good is that when the club down the street is on a different program?


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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Melonie nailed it. Enacting a 3 foot rule in houston in 1998 made is probably one of the dirtiest lapdance cities because everyone broke the rules, so the clubs began to build couches and VIP rooms in dark booths so that no one can easily see what is going on. It made things much worse than before!

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    I live in a city with a three foot rule. Nobody follows it. I mean ZILCH. You're lucky if customers don't try to hustle $20 head from you!
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    6 foot-rule, no contact/nudity table dances here, too. This club and a club in Beverly Hills (same rules, but no nudity AT ALL!) are the only ones I have worked at, so these rules are all I have known. I have not noted anyone breaking the rules, but the girls seem to make a pretty large amount of money. A former DJ at my club, who used to be married to one of the girls at our club, said that she pulled in $800-$900 per DAY! Not night, but day. Few girls at my club make that kind of money, though. As far as I know, anyway. My club seems pretty adimant about firing girls who break the rules and such.

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    In Los Angeles? No touch clubs, are you serious? Which clubs? $900 a night? They must only hire showgirl types....do tell me more, I hear different things about LA....

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    We deal with this stupid rule all over Little Hell (aka Salt Lake) The easiest way to deal with it is to drink hustle and if the customer doesnt understand nicely tell them that its the new law, but you will happily come down and have a drink after you are done with your set. That way they know that you still appriciate them, and are willing to spend time with them. However, be prepared, you will feel like this some days: or Good luck honey!!
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Melonie nailed it. Enacting a 3 foot rule in houston in 1998 made is probably one of the dirtiest lapdance cities because everyone broke the rules, so the clubs began to build couches and VIP rooms in dark booths so that no one can easily see what is going on. It made things much worse than before!
    Therein lies the sad irony of the situation. When local ordinances create legal penalties and fines for doing a contact lap dance which are essentially the same as the legal penalties and fines for giving a BJ, some girls are simply going to figure that they have nothing additional to lose by giving BJ's but stand to earn a whole lot more money. I've seen this happen in many cities after zero contact ordinances were enacted.

    It's actually even more ironic than this, because the 'dirty' dancers often have enough money to hire a good private attorney and get off on a plea bargain, where the struggling 'clean' dancers wind up being represented by the club attorney or a public defender and have to take the entire rap.

    for the most part, yes. Even if the rules are strictly enforced within the club and all girls abided, what good is that when the club down the street is on a different program?
    Yup ! The only exception to this are really upscale "show clubs" which don't really have to compete with other clubs on the basis of 'mileage'. It can be argued that the passage of a zero contact ordinance actually helps the upscale "show clubs" and the lucky 10-20% of dancers who can get hired by them. However this isn't always true, as is proven by the Houston experience where club economics got so bad that the 'dirty' stuff started working its way into every club, upscale "show clubs" included, as about the only means for dancers to still earn major money and forcing 'clean' dancers to work extra hard, even in the upscale "show clubs".

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    Senior Member darlinpandora's Avatar
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by catfly link=board=27;threadid=9965;start=msg120037#msg120 037 date=1086764619
    There is like 50 clubs here. Not sure how they are going to do the charges if we get busted. We will have to see if this law passes. We will know by September.
    Oh, they like to enforce the rule when there are alot of clubs to enforce it with. What they do is they throw you in jail, shut the club down, AND you get a fine. Around here that will put you out of the game for two or more years depending on how stiff the charge is and how big of a pain in the ass the judge wants to be. Not fun. Our fine runs from $500-1500 for a first time offender. Then you get to spend a week in the slammer. Buyer beware! You will see so many vice cops trying to get you to break this law that it isn't even funny.
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Pandora, this is where being able to afford a high powered attorney with 'extras' money comes in, versus being stuck with a public defender or club attorney because you don't have $1,000-2,000 instant cash for the attorney's fee since you were only 'bending' the ordinance not throwing it out the window and were earning peanuts compared to girls doing 'extras'.

    Girls who can afford their own high powered legal defense usually get a plea bargain after mounting an appeal of their initial conviction, a $500-$1,000 fine, no jail time, and perhaps a "disorderly conduct" charge on their record or some other bargained down charge which is non-sexual and easy to have expunged. Girls who go into court with a public defender or club attorney because they can't afford anything else wind up taking the rap, doing some days in the county lockup, get hit with a $1000 fine as well, and wind up with a lewd conduct or other sexually oriented charge on their record which is difficult to expunge. Granted that not all cities are as extreme about enforcement as Salt Lake City is (and I assume that your ordinance involves misdemeanor charges), but the same principle still applies.

    I wrote an article on this subject 3 years ago based on my own experiences when the first wave of anti-dance club ordinances started to be enacted, which can still be seen at . The only things that have significantly changed since then are that ...

    #1 bail cost has typically increased from $250 to $500, deliberately raised by the courts in the hopes of catching the majority of dancers without enough club earnings in their purse at the time they are busted to bail themselves out (meaning they get to spend the night in jail).

    #2 some cities have started to assign misdemeanor penalties to violating dance club ordinances, making them just as serious from a legal standpoint as being charged with prostitution. With misdemeanor charges involved, the amount of bail set, legal fees charged and amount of fines leveed or jail time handed down by the court go up proportionately.

    Guilty or innocent, it is still going to cost you $1,500-$3,000 between bail and attorney's fees and fines to get out from under a bust like this without doing time in jail. If you're busted while travelling, and you must make a couple of return trips back to this city to appear in court for your original trial and your appeal paid for at your own expense, the total winds up being more like $5,000 (not counting lost dancing income while you're spending time travelling and in court instead of dancing and earning money).

    I've been there, done that, and it cost me over $5,000 total to prove my innocence ! Fortunately, I was in a position to be able to afford doing this. However, for 'clean' dancers whose incomes are suffering because the dancer in the next booth is bending or breaking the law, but being swept up right along with all of the other dancers during a club bust, and very likely NOT HAVING $1,000-$2,000 in instant cash available to bail themselves out and retain a high powered attorney on the night of the bust, this almost certainly means that they're going to spend at least one night in jail, they're going to wind up paying a stiff fine, and they're going to wind up with a sexually oriented conviction on their permanent record (even if they are totally innocent).

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    There are no show clubs in my area. LOL at JDS's $20 head reference. God, does anybody actually suck dick for $20?


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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    I've done it for free...but NEVER with a customer! LOL

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    "Guilty or innocent, it is still going to cost you $1,500-$3,000 between bail and attorney's fees and fines to get out from under a bust like this without doing time in jail."

    yeah I know but around here trying to get an attorney when they hear "stripper" or "dancer" is an immediate cause for a blank look and a bunch of mumbo jumbo about "the likely hood of winning this case is slim to none". Here in little hell, we pride ourselves in doing whatever we want to do as long as it fits the LDS (Mormon) Church's ideas of what is pure and holy. Welcome to Utah.
    If you search deep enough in your soul, you'll always find a slight reminder of me.... - TLC Something Wicked This Way Comes

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    Senior Member darlinpandora's Avatar
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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Besides, doing "extras" tends to get a girl a bad rep, you know?
    If you search deep enough in your soul, you'll always find a slight reminder of me.... - TLC Something Wicked This Way Comes

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    yeah I know but around here trying to get an attorney when they hear "stripper" or "dancer" is an immediate cause for a blank look and a bunch of mumbo jumbo about "the likely hood of winning this case is slim to none". Here in little hell, we pride ourselves in doing whatever we want to do as long as it fits the LDS (Mormon) Church's ideas of what is pure and holy. Welcome to Utah.
    So you're basically saying that the city is 'rigged' such that private attorneys won't accept such cases - and you're stuck with a public defender, jail time, a big fine, and a sexually oriented black mark on your criminal record, for giving a customer a contact lap dance ?

    I see your position, though, considering that every member of the jury is likely to be a bible thumping Mormon housewife, civil servant, or employee of the LDS church who already view exotic dancers as prostitutes, drug addicts, liars, thieves and all the rest of the Hollywood Stereotype with a righteous Mormon twist thrown on top! In that scenario you're better off pleading guilty in the first place, because odds are if you take the case to court and lose that your fine and jail time will be increased (unofficial payback for wasting the court's time trying to prove your innocence).

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Hence the reason why I am trying to get out of this hell hole and on down to guam.....
    If you search deep enough in your soul, you'll always find a slight reminder of me.... - TLC Something Wicked This Way Comes

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    The best way to deal with the whole deal is just to do your dance, sell your drinks, and hope for the best. It will keep you out of trouble and keep you happy.
    If you search deep enough in your soul, you'll always find a slight reminder of me.... - TLC Something Wicked This Way Comes

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    Default Re:Anyone work in a club with a 3 or 6 foot rule?

    Quote Originally Posted by darlinpandora link=board=27;threadid=9965;start=msg122551#msg122 551 date=1087288951
    The best way to deal with the whole deal is just to do your dance, sell your drinks, and hope for the best. It will keep you out of trouble and keep you happy.
    Odds are, the only "dance" you'll be able to sell is onstage for a few dollars in tips. Virtually no customers are going to be willing to spend money on more than one private dance after they discover the dance is performed 3 feet away from them. This may make YOU happy and keep you out of trouble with the law, but odds are it won't make the CUSTOMERS happy nor keep you out of trouble with bill collectors.

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