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Thread: Pay to Play

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    Default Pay to Play

    I have no doubt that I'm going to get my ass kicked for this, but I'll do it anyway, because most men in the clubs wanna know. I have seen a lot of complaints from dancers that they have to "pay the house" in order to dance. I don't understand the problem. Now, I realize that in my profession (just as an example) that I do not have to pay in order to work in the office. However, I also do not have the potential to earn $20 in a 3 minute period of time, nor do I make any more one day versus another. It seems to me that the house charges some money in order to provide you with a place to make money. Sometimes not so much...but sometimes quite a bit. To be honest, $500 in a single night seems like a lot to me. I also see a lot of complaints about how "cheap" guys are. While I do not consider myself cheap, I am definitely frugal. I have to be. I want to be able to go to a club and spend a few bucks, but I also don't want to spend that money in the first 5 minutes of walking in the club. It is not that I am only willing to spend $50 ...but rather there are times where that is all I ABLE to spend.

    So, my question(s):
    How much is too much for the house to receive?
    Do you think it is fair or unfair?
    Do you look down on those people who spend less than $250 in a sitting?

    Help me be a better customer

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    How much is too much for the house to receive?
    total payouts of more than 33% of the typical earning potential during that shift is too much. This would include house fees, private dance splits, funny money 'charges', and mandatory tipouts. Of course there are many different ways for a club to structure these charges, so it's difficult to point to a particular figure for the house fee alone without consider the rest of the factors in this equation.

    Do you think it is fair or unfair?
    It's business, pure and simple.

    Do you look down on those people who spend less than $250 in a sitting
    Everything is relative. In a neighborhood club, a customer with $250 to spend might be considered a high roller, while the same customer spending $250 in a super upscale "show club" would be considered a cheapskate.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    While I am not against house fees in general, I have to ask if YOU would like having to pay your boss and then follow his rules?

    Don't jump down my throat though, I've posted many times I like being an IC and I know that giving up part of my earnings to the house is part of the deal.

    Every time I see some guy making not-so-subtly snide remarks about the $20 dance, I get hives. When are you guys gonna get it through your heads that in reality it takes us much longer than 3minutes to earn that $20????? It's not like we don't have to WORK to get the sale. We WORK for the sale and then we WORK to deliver. OMG we all WISH we were doing 3 minute dances for $20 all night long!

    Most of the customers we see ARE cheap. Plain and simple. (however most average customers are NOT members of online stripper forums so the customer representation here is vastly skewed) We get guys trying to haggle and push us for more while trying to pay less all night every night. That is a cheapskate. It doesn't matter if you spend $50 or $5000, it matters HOW you spend it. If you hassle a girl for 20 minutes before agreeing to a dance, try to stick your parts in every orifice she has during ONE dance, and then grudgingly hand over that $20, no tip, and act like it kills you to pay it, we're gonna think you're a cheap asshole at best. However if you are polite, treat us with a modicum of respect, get that one dance, behave appropritely and tip even a small amount that puts you on the exact opposite end of the Asshole Spectrum. You don't have to be a big spender to not be seen as an asshole.

    Finally, the amount of money we make is irrelevant. You don't sit there and compare our earnings to yours or anybody else's. That is just stupid. IF you do, be sure to consider the fact that we can't do it nearly as long as you can do your job and then try to put a value on a drastically shortened potential careerspan. I really get tired of guys who begrudge us the money we make.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    I agree 100% with the above posts.

    We also have to invest in our own "training" which includes costs for cosmetic enhancements. We also receive 0 benefits.

    I never complain about paying the house. The girls who complain the most are the ones who aren't saavy enough to make lots of money.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    be sure to consider the fact that we can't do it nearly as long as you can do your job and then try to put a value on a drastically shortened potential careerspan.
    That is an excellent point. I've met many dancers who said, with much earned pride, that they had an excellent savings plan. I like those dancers. They are very business-like about their chosen profession, and intelligent, and it's quite a turn on from my particular customer view.

    Bridgette - I absolutely do not begrudge the money you (dancers) make. I just don't know how it all works from your perspective, thus the questions.

    And for the record, I never hassle the dancers, nor attempt to infiltrate their orifices with anything .

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Ok hun, was just illustrating the point, not pointing the finger.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Quote Originally Posted by StripperTips link=board=27;threadid=10103;start=msg121992#msg12 1992 date=1087206435
    So, my question(s):
    How much is too much for the house to receive?
    It really depends on what the house does. In general, 1/3 is the maximum, but there are clubs that do a lot less, and I think are worth much less. Like they say in real estate - location, location, location.

    Do you think it is fair or unfair?
    It's business. Prices are set at what the market will bear. In that sense it's fair. It becomes unfair if there is some price fixing going on.

    Do you look down on those people who spend less than $250 in a sitting?
    Nope. If someone walks in to the club with $100 to spend, and I get it, good for me. If I send him home with a good attitude, even better. If he comes back to see me with another $100, that's best.

    HTH
    Z

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Some bars absolutely DO scam the dancers to the point where they keep less than 50% of their earnings. This is crap. I say more than 25% to the house is pushing it.

    Finally, the amount of money we make is irrelevant. You don't sit there and compare our earnings to yours or anybody else's. That is just stupid.
    This attitude bothers me as well. To people who say 'you get paid to sit around and party!', I say smarten up. First of all, it's sales, and it can be very stressful. Second, we don't come out of the box looking like this! From BAs to tanning to shaving and hair stuff, we spend a crapload of non-work time getting it all together so we can look like we were born perfect.

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Quote Originally Posted by StripperTips link=board=27;threadid=10103;start=msg121992#msg12 1992 date=1087206435
    So, my question(s):
    How much is too much for the house to receive?
    At my club...house fee is $100, tip-out is 20%, DJ tip is about $20, Housemom is $10. If you turn in any funny money, then they keep 25% of that, too. A few weekends ago I made $1400...walked home with about $600 after all was said and done. The dancers that complain are not complaining so much about paying the house fees...it's when you bust your ass all night...make a shit-load of cash and then give more than 1/2 of it to the house in tip-outs, etc.

    Personally, if the dancer walks out with less than 65-70% of her nightly earnings...the house is taking too much money.

    Do you think it is fair or unfair?
    Well, it's business. However, it's not "ethical" business practices in a lot of places. Here, it is illegal to have an employee pay to work...but not an IC. But, I am a paid employee at my club (I get a paycheck every 2 weeks) but I still pay house fees. It's not legal...and it pisses me off to no end...but, what's going to be done about it?

    Do you look down on those people who spend less than $250 in a sitting?
    I do not look down on someone who has a limited amount of money to spend. What annoys me is when said person expects me to sit with them for free all night. That doesn't fly. I will sit and chat for a little while, but time is money. If you have no intention of buying any dances at that time, then simply say so, so that the dancer will move on and make money. If you want to sit and chat with the dancer, then you should be compensating her for her time. She should not have to hint at this...buy a dance, pay her to talk with you, or be blunt and let her know she needs to move on. To expect a dancer to shoot the breeze with you for an hour before you buy ONE dance or pay ANY money to her for her time is what gets you labled as a "cheap ass".

    Happy clubbing!

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    Featured Member The_Kid's Avatar
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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    VenusGoddess- Where the hell are you working where
    you got to keep about 43% of what you made ? Even
    at Scores you would have walked out with a better net-
    over 50%. From what you describe , the club where you
    work "TAXES" the hell out of what you're making. Tip-
    out of 20 % ??
    If you're half as good looking in person as your posted
    photo, there are a lot of clubs that would love to have
    you work there AND let you keep a LOT more of what you earn.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    I also agree. 25%- 30% is a fair tip share.

    And no dancer is making $20 every 3 minutes every night Each sale takes on average 5-10 min. to make and close. And don't forget the many attempted sales that don't close and the time it takes to go on stage several times a night and the time it takes to do touch ups costume changes throughout the shift.


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    Featured Member phillydj's Avatar
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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    I personaly don't beleive in the house fee AND taking money put of your dances, should be one or the other.
    I Would Never Belong To Any Club That Would Have Me As A Member - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Kid link=board=27;threadid=10103;start=msg122208#msg12 2208 date=1087235956
    VenusGoddess- Where the hell are you working where
    you got to keep about 43% of what you made ? Even
    at Scores you would have walked out with a better net-
    over 50%. From what you describe , the club where you
    work "TAXES" the hell out of what you're making. Tip-
    out of 20 % ??
    If you're half as good looking in person as your posted
    photo, there are a lot of clubs that would love to have
    you work there AND let you keep a LOT more of what you earn.
    I work at VIP's in Chicago. Where are you? Travel could be an option...and I have been thinking about traveling, but being that it costs money, I am hesitant to travel without knowing if I am going to be able to work.

    When I first started working at my club...I loved it. I enjoyed dancing and talking with people and making money. But, as I have honed my skills more and thus started making more and more money, I have found that I have less and less desire to go to work. Why? Because I hustle and work my butt off and sit down and count $1000...and then slowly take out almost 1/2 of that and give it to the house for fees/tips/whatever. It's very discouraging.

    Last night...there were 32 girls on the floor (they've gotten into this mind-set that if they hire a lot of girls, it will off-set the slower traffic). 32 girls and a below-average crowd. I made (after I made my house fee back...I never tip out on that) $75. Yes, $75. I handed my tip-out to the house and got bitched out...they told me that I owed $40 because I did 10 dances. I pulled out all of the money in my pocket and counted it out right in front of them. I told the manager that I think it's pretty sad that the floor guys will be going home with an average of $200 per guy that night (after they added up and split all the tips...and they don't get charged the "funny money fee") than a dancer that busted her ass all night. I told him that maybe if they quit hiring so many dancers that are willing to sit and talk for free...then maybe we could actually make money again. I got in my car and bitched the whole way home. I am still upset and contemplating whether or not to go in again. It's not worth my time...not for that kind of money. Sure, there are girls there that are making money and I am sure that one of the reasons that I stopped making money is because I am feeling "exploited". I am trying to change my views temporarily and have a good night at work tomorrow. But, if I could find a club that I could tip out 30% and then be done, I'm there.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    OMG Venus where on earth are you working??? Personally I think more than 25% is too much to cough up but more than half is just an out and out RIPOFF! That place should be burned down! I wouldn't be able to get out of there fast enough!

    >>Added: I guess we were writing at the same time. Girl I'd get the hell out of there. Your feeling exploited likely won't just get better and most clubs typically don't stop hiring too many girls once they start that VERY BAD practice. They do it to get the extra tipouts to offset the loss from slower customer traffic. In my experience that is a BAD sign and things don't generally improve for quite a while, if at all. Once customer traffic goes back up there are so many more girls in the club it's still harder to make money and basically nobody's earnings get back up to par.

    If you are willing to travel and/or move, how far are you willing to go and what kind of clubs can you handle?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Oh..and before someone starts in on me for whatever reason and say "your a dj, you dont understand", yeah I do. I worked at a club where I had to pay a house fee of 65$...so I DO feel where your coming from.
    I Would Never Belong To Any Club That Would Have Me As A Member - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Venus- first of all you are both beautiful and intelligent.
    Secondly, you are being abused.What VIP-Chicago is
    charging is way out of line. Those are "pimp rates".
    Unfortunately, two of your best options ( S.Fla. & NYC)
    are both entering the summer which is relatively slow,
    especially on weekends. Penthouse Executive Club
    would definitely hire you and the house fees & tip-outs
    are less than 1/2 what you're paying now. If, and only
    IF you can handle contact GoGoRama and Delilah's Den
    in N.J. would give you the chance to clear $1000 per
    night. Go to StripClubList.com- New Jersey and go
    to the GogoRama page for their website. You can E-mail
    your picture and I can almost guarantee they'll be in touch. Ask for Phil - the mgr. For nude w/o contact you can try Stiletto's in Carlstadt, N.J.
    Myrtle Beach is reportedly very busy in the Summer but
    you'll have to do a little research as to which are the best clubs. Good Luck. Any Q's I'll try to answer them.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    I think it would be fair to charge a house fee if they did not get to keep any of our dance money or vice versa. After paying the club, tipping out, buying clothes, costumes, makeup, shoes, travel expenses, and makeup, we are not making as much as you guys think we are. There are also very slow nights with too many girls on a shift and sometimes you barely break even. There is also the fact that we have to pay for our own insurance, hire our own accountants for taxes, and put away our own money if we want to have anything when we get old..... so the more I think about it, the stage fees suck!!!!


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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette link=board=27;threadid=10103;start=msg122275#msg12 2275 date=1087242569
    OMG Venus where on earth are you working??? Personally I think more than 25% is too much to cough up but more than half is just an out and out RIPOFF! That place should be burned down! I wouldn't be able to get out of there fast enough!

    >>Added: I guess we were writing at the same time. Girl I'd get the hell out of there. Your feeling exploited likely won't just get better and most clubs typically don't stop hiring too many girls once they start that VERY BAD practice. They do it to get the extra tipouts to offset the loss from slower customer traffic. In my experience that is a BAD sign and things don't generally improve for quite a while, if at all. Once customer traffic goes back up there are so many more girls in the club it's still harder to make money and basically nobody's earnings get back up to par.

    If you are willing to travel and/or move, how far are you willing to go and what kind of clubs can you handle?
    Where depends on the costs of accommodations/airfare and my potential earnings (won't go to a GREAT club Oregon to make $200/night). I can handle very light contact, but full/high contact is absolutely out of the question. I can't move, but if I could travel somewhere that would let me work weekends (so my SO could either come with me with my daughter...or stay home with her) I would rather do that. I am thinking about trying out Scores Chicago, but have heard they do about the same thing there as VIP's does.

    Penthouse Executive Club
    would definitely hire you and the house fees & tip-outs
    are less than 1/2 what you're paying now.
    Kid...What do you know about this club and do they have a website?

    Thanks everyone...didn't mean for the thread jack.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Even though it's slower here now, you should be able to clear 400-500+ per shift...
    A quick orbitz search shows air+hotel rates of 350-400 for 3 weekend nights.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    OK Ive read through the posts and most of the opinions are the same as mine so Im not going to repeat it all LOL. But I do have one thing that always goes through my mind with house fees.

    "Why would I PAY someone so that I could work. They should be paying ME!"

    Our club does not have house fees - thank Goddess - but they do keep a certain amount from lapdances and such so I think its fair.
    You think you know... but you have no idea!

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Venus- Based on your contact preferences Penthouse
    is probably your best option and on your off nights
    there you can work Stiletto's in Carlstadt, N.J. which is
    NO CONTACT for the guys. Both have web-sites. Rather
    than challenge my limited computer skills - just go to
    Stripclublist.com and go to the NY and NJ pages.then look up Penthouse Executive Club- go to their page
    and link to their web-site. Same for Stiletto's.
    At PEC during the week you can make anywhere from
    $500 to $2500+ per night but you have to hustle VIP
    and C.R.
    Come to think of it Delilah's Den has a few low mileage
    dancers who work the Night shift- you basically control
    & permit as much as you're comfy with so you could try there. tip-out & house fees are very low & you can get good deals at a few close by motels. The Day shift there & GoGoRama are probably beyond your comfort level.

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    Featured Member The_Kid's Avatar
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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Venus- Sorry but I just remembered - Devon Michaels
    opened her own club in Peoria. Go to Club-Chat on this site and do a search and you should pick up her posts
    about the club.

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Quote Originally Posted by StripperTips link=board=27;threadid=10103;start=msg121992#msg12 1992 date=1087206435
    However, I also do not have the potential to earn $20 in a 3 minute period of time, nor do I make any more one day versus another. It seems to me that the house charges some money in order to provide you with a place to make money. Sometimes not so much...but sometimes quite a bit.

    So, my question(s):
    How much is too much for the house to receive?
    Do you think it is fair or unfair?
    Do you look down on those people who spend less than $250 in a sitting?

    Help me be a better customer
    This is pretty dopey logic if you're basing it on income. Should surgeons give a cut of their surgical fees even though the patient may already be paying the hospital directly? Should an investment banker give part of his windfall to the bank after s/he orchestrates a successful merger? And so on and so forth.

    So be cause we have potential to make more than someone at Wal-Mart we DESERVE to get a chunk of our money taken?

    Any club that takes more that 1/4th of what I make won't have me as an "independent contractor" for very long. I try to find clubs that let me keep as much as possible, and I admit I'm pretty spoiled by that.

    As for customer spend, it depends. I know $20-$40 is a lot for some guys per dance, but if a guy is cool and gets just a dance or two, I don't look down on him, but nor do I spend a lot of time with him either.

    But tonight I sat with a guy who was a 29 yr. old banker from Chicago who said he's been spending too much on VIP's lately and he was afraid a half hour would turn into all night. I really didn't need to hear that, especially after seeing the wad of c-notes and Amex Platinum in his wallet. He got two dances and tipped me $20 extra for my time after I tried getting him to Champagne. I thought HE was cheap. It's all relative.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Should surgeons give a cut of their surgical fees even though the patient may already be paying the hospital directly?
    Have you ever gone into a hospital for surgery and only had to pay the surgeon? The hospital most certainly gets their cut.

    I don't mean to use "dopey logic", I'm just trying to develop and understanding for how the system works.

    So be cause we have potential to make more than someone at Wal-Mart we DESERVE to get a chunk of our money taken?
    I would be interested to hear the POV from a club owner or manager. The flip side to your statement is likely "We are providing a place for you to dance and to make money." which seems sorta reasonable. Then again, you could say to them "We are the ones making people come into this place and pay $5 for a beer."

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    Default Re:Pay to Play

    Have you ever gone into a hospital for surgery and only had to pay the surgeon? The hospital most certainly gets their cut.
    Absolutely true. The one thing that helps in the hospital example, though, is that the bill it itemized such that the surgeon's fee, the OR fee, the anesthesia fee, the lab fee etc. are all spelled out to the patient. In a strip club the customer doesn't get the same sort of itemized bill and only pays the dancer directly (yes I know, sometimes they pay the club directly through the cash register), and it's left to the dancer to distribute the money to the club, bouncers, DJ etc.

    Actually I wish that strip club customers DID get an itemized bill, because then they would then know that the dancer isn't actually earning anywhere near as much as if she could keep 100% of the customer's money and would probably tip more.

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