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Thread: Live music

  1. #1
    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Live music

    Has anyone been to a strip club with live music?

    You know, there are half a dozen or so strip clubs that I'd go to, and truthfully, I don't have very strong preferences for one over the other. One will serve better food, one is a little dingy but has better dancers, two are closer to my office. But I don't really have a very strong overall favorite.

    If any one of them started playing live music instead of a DJ, I'd go there all the time, and forget the rest.

    --TarzanBass

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    It would not be profitable.
    Instead of tipping one dj to play the music as it sounded when the artist recorded it,entertainers would have to tip the whole band.
    Entertainers wouldnt go for it.
    The band would take up alot more space,taking money seats out of the club.
    Owners wouldnt go for it.


    DJ's rule all aspects of "live"music now.Nightclubs,weddings,corp functions,etc.

    Milli Vanilli sealed the fate of most live music.

    people want perfection in their music,bands just cant do that on an every night basis.
    DJ's have the ability to change music as needed,most bands cant.

    DJ's win hands down.
    Even a (gasp)jukebox is better then a live band in this application.
    Bands make the music,dj's deliver it to the masses.

    Good bands make the money,dj's get the strippers.Thats the deal as described in the bi laws.

  3. #3
    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    DJs dehumanize and depersonalize the scene, which may be a good thing, in some ways. It contributes to the sense that we're not watching people, we're watching pornographic objects--media creations, of lighting, lies, and silicone, rather than humans with whom we can honestly interact. It's a recording, not a living human making the music. It's a fiction, not a human, on the stage.

    Maybe that protects the dancers. To me, it makes the scene a little cold and empty, and I'm not a frequent flyer.

    Live music is alive and well--changing in some ways, but still growing healthily, despite what the doom-sayers have been suggesting. The market is falling out of the recording market, and touring is where the real money is. I doubt anyone remembers Milli Vanilli anymore.

    But thanks for your insights. I think that you describe the current reality, as perceived and perpetuated by those in the business, very well.

    --TarzanBass

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    Featured Member phillydj's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    DJs dehumanize and depersonalize the scene, which may be a good thing, in some ways. It contributes to the sense that we're not watching people, we're watching pornographic objects--media creations, of lighting, lies, and silicone, rather than humans with whom we can honestly interact. It's a recording, not a living human making the music. It's a fiction, not a human, on the stage.
    Excuse me???? Wow, Ive never had a dancer or even a customer say that, ya gotta lay of the crack son. DEHUMANIZE the scene??? Humans you cant interact with?????? Oh F*@k it...I give up, your a moron.
    I Would Never Belong To Any Club That Would Have Me As A Member - Groucho Marx

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    DJs dehumanize and depersonalize the scene, which may be a good thing, in some ways. It contributes to the sense that we're not watching people, we're watching pornographic objects--media creations, of lighting, lies, and silicone, rather than humans with whom we can honestly interact. It's a recording, not a living human making the music. It's a fiction, not a human, on the stage.
    well,except for the "depersonalize"part....

    Zactly.
    This industry doesnt sell the artist or the music.We sell fantasy and sassperilla.
    A live band is not the "Star"of the show.
    The DJ is.








    JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!
    Maybe that protects the dancers. To me, it makes the scene a little cold and empty, and I'm not a frequent flyer.
    sorry you have not enjoyed your visits to whatever clubs you went to.I promise you there are alot of clubs that you wont find "cold and empty".Let me know what state your in and i can send you in the right direction.Just be warned,its a dj and not a live band.

    And just a quick question,if you dont fly often,why would you even want to do this??
    Live music is alive and well--changing in some ways, but still growing healthily, despite what the doom-sayers have been suggesting. The market is falling out of the recording market, and touring is where the real money is. I doubt anyone remembers Milli Vanilli anymore.
    Your right.
    One day history will mark milli vanilli as a huge turning point in how "live"music is done.
    I also agree that live music is alive and kicking.I have been a long time supporter,and will continue to do so for many more years i hope.
    Its not really the dj's to blame,its the internet downloads.
    But thanks for your insights. I think that you describe the current reality, as perceived and perpetuated by those in the business, very well.

    --TarzanBass
    Its just my personal opinion,in no means what any industry might agree or disagree with.
    I just dont think this will ever be the right application for rock and roll stars,except in the vip rooms getting lapdances.

  6. #6
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    TarzanBass, I think I am hearing someone who would like to see a genuine artistic performance, as opposed to the depersonalized stage routine we have all seen too often in stripclubs, especially in those clubs where either:

    1. The real money is being made via extras, and noone--neither customers nor dancers--cares about what is going on onstage.
    2. The DJ, in spite of his generally massive ego, either has no clue what kind of music the dancer might actually get inspired by, doesn't care, or is forbidden to play dancer requests by management.
    3. The DJ--either through natural inclination, through encouragement by management, or both--renders any aesthetic merit acheived by the dancers meaningless through tacky, crude commentary, such as frequently using the terms "dick", "pussy", "erection section" (the tipping rail), etc., etc.

    In the latter cases, it may be part of a genuine effort on the part of the DJ and management to create an energetic, lively atmosphere. While this may be better than some boring monotone voice merely calling out the names of the next dancers, it all too often leads to the general tendency for the average customer to try as hard as possible to IGNORE what the DJ is saying. I always did when I was just a customer. Most SC DJs are quite literally morons (though generally speaking, the DJs here--being literate--are exceptions), who are basically being paid to be assholes.

    It doesn't have to be that way.

    I am an artist first and foremost, long before I ever thought of being a DJ. I have always endeavored, with a great degree of success, to create an atmosphere in which the dancer can actually feel like she is being creative. There is a mental state which artists of all kinds experience when they are truly inspired, which is intuitive as much or more than rational. This state is best described by the term "flow". I have seen it happen, but it can be very hard to pull off in many SCs.

    I get the impression that this is what you would like to see. If this is the case, I admire your sentiments--but you have to realize that this is not a business in which artistic feelings are encouraged. In fact SC DJs (again, most here being exceptional) and management have to be numbered among the least enlightened kind of person you are likely to encounter in any business.

    There are also a number of factors which, in practice, limit the efficacy of live bands and dancers working together.

    From my own and my girlfriend's experience, having a band onstage with the dancers just doesn't cut it, for a number of reasons. I worked a New Year's Eve at a SC that was having a hard time dealing with the big new club in town taking all the dancers and customers. So the manager, in spite of my vehement objections, decided to hire a band to play New Year's Eve.

    It was a disaster. The people who came to see the band really didn't care about the dancers, and sure as shit weren't buying VIPs. The band played music which suited the dancers' style only rarely and by sheer luck. Having the band and the dancer both onstage at once created a conflict of interest which was detrimental to both.

    The dancers, who were in this club prone to get high and party rather than act in a professional manner, hung out with the band in between sets, thus destroying any illusion on the part of the customers that they were attractive or interesting to the dancers.

    One of the better and more professional dancers there had made 600$ the year before on New Years. On this night she made 55$, and she did better than most.

    The club my girlfriend works in is trying this same strategy, and it is not only failing dismally on the nights the band plays, but is causing problems on the other nights, when the band members and their friends are coming in and trying, with a fair degree of success, to party with and pick up the dancers. In this area the kind of people who want to see live music are not the kind of people who want to buy dances anyway.

    What you would like to see happen is not inherently a bad idea, but is going to be extremely hard to pull off, if not impossible, in the present condition of the industry.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  7. #7
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    I think the naked woman onstage trumps a bunch of sweaty guys any day of the week. I know which of the two would have MY attention.

    Personally, i couldn't care less about live music on the SC scene. If that was what i wanted to see, i'd have gone to see a show rather than to a SC.

    Personally, if the DJ knows what he's doing all he does is add to the experience. OTOH I've run across several DJ's that had me wishing they'd just shut the fuck up.

  8. #8
    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    Hi Djoser,

    Thanks for a thoughtful and insightful post. Many good ideas here.

    PhillyDJ, you come across as being an insecure crybaby.

    Anyway, DJoser, I get what your saying about how the industry may not be geared to support live music, in its current state. As you imply, most patrons probably wouldn't pay more for it.

    I guess I'm in a minority that would prefer the scene to be less tacky, more artful, and more multi-dimensional.

    I also agree with your assessment that there are different levels of DJ. Generally, the best ones, in my opinion, are invisible, and support the energy of the crowd and the needs of the dancers. The worst ones are under the misimpression that their inane patter is part of the draw.

    There is definitely an art to being a DJ: its about both reading and supporting the crowd and also about technical things, like beat-matching, leveling, and so on (leading all the way up to techniques of turntablism, which is an art in its own right). The SC MC stuff leaves me cold, nearly always, and it's generally degrading to the dancers, patrons, and the scene in general.

    Live bands are also bombs, sometimes, in any situation: weddings, sweet sixteens, bar mitzvahs, whatever.

    But I think that it is possible for live music to greatly enhance the experience. You can't just hire a random band and turn them loose. If a band plays weddings, you have to understand the conventions of a wedding, and what music and pacing fit these scenarios--which is going to be different for each couple, to a certain extent.

    Since there isn't much of a tradition of live music at strip clubs, bands haven't developed the technique yet, of making it work. But it could work, and because live music has such strong energy and personality, compared to recorded music, it could intensify the whole scene.

    --TarzanBass

  9. #9
    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    Hey, BigGreenMnM,

    Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's the Internet that's killing the recording industry, not DJs or quacks. And DJs and the Internet are actually helping to pick up the live performance market.

    My state is MA. I used to travel a lot, and saw clubs all around North America. My favorite was probably the Landing Strip, outside Toronto. In my home state, I used to go to the Golden Banana, mostly (as it was a buddy's favorite), but then it was closed for a long time. (Maybe it reopened, by now.) I popped into other places, now and then, too.

    > And just a quick question,if you dont fly often,
    > why would you even want to do this??

    You know, that's an excellent question, and I hope you don't mind an answer that is on the philosophical side.

    I believe that SCs present a form of erotic performance art, which you can see either as the presentation of beautiful forms or as presentation of the dances (which I'm the first person to say are generally far from artful).

    As an artist myself, I see a potential opportunity for a greater level of beauty possible in the world, and that's why I bring up the subject.

    People will differ with my analysis. They'll say, no, it's not art, it's more like soft-core prostitution. I guess, for many (maybe most), it is.

    --TarzanBass

    P.S. Though I've never hired a prostitute, I consider prostitution more like a form of massage than as a substitute for real love or personal relationships. If it wasn't for the high price, disease potential, illegality, slave traders, thug pimps, and other problems with that scene, I might have partaken, by now, but as it stands, I probably never will.

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    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    By the way, I'm not looking for gigs! Too busy and too married to be shifting my career to the SC scene. These are ideas for others to run with.

    --TarzanBass

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    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    Hey MadCap,

    Sorry, all, for this long stream of posts. I'm not trying to keep this thread fresh, I'm just trying to reply to all thoughtful respondents.

    MadCap, I agree that the dancers should be the main draw. At any party, it's about the people, not the entertainers. I think a good SC band would be way off stage, in a corner, and should serve to enhance and support what the dancers are doing.

    Ideally, you wouldn't necessarily know that they were there, but you'd feel the energy and vibrations that live music adds to any scene.

    I agree, many DJs talk too much.

    --TarzanBass

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    Featured Member phillydj's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    Insecure crybabay?? Naw, Im just to tired and busy to write what my other cohorts said so well. Theres no way a live band would work in this biz: PERIOD....I could just here the girls bitching about them now,lol (Whattaya meen you dont know that song...you played that to fast....dont you know anything slower.....) Not to mention the handling of rotation and general club announcements. I'm not an insecure crybaby, I've been in the biz long enough to know a stupid idea when I see one. And sorry, most dj's I know add to the show and the energy and not "dehumanize" the experiance. Just because some of my fellow djs gave you a very well put together reply dosent meen that you post wasnt insulting to , well at least me. Why don't you go on the other forum and tell the girls they should be replaced. Since I've found these two forums I've come to the basic conclusion that 85% of the djs are idiots and should be replaced, but a live band isnt the answer, training the dj's is. And so as you know I am a guitar player, had a couple albums out in the early 90's.
    I Would Never Belong To Any Club That Would Have Me As A Member - Groucho Marx

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    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    PhillyDJ, that's fine, that you think it's a stupid idea. Personally, I think that surfing the Web and calling people "moron" when you're busy and tired is a stupid idea, but different strokes.

    I shouldn't have called you a crybaby, even though you called me a moron. I should have just told you to chill out. So, I apologize for that. No need to escalate the violence.

    You know, I didn't say that all DJs should be replaced. I said that as a customer, I'd be more apt to patronize a club that had live music, and I gave reasons for my preference.

    I was under the impression that the primary focus of this site was for industry professionals to talk shop, and so I offered some insight into what would appeal to me, as a customer.

    If people pay for it, it's not a stupid idea, and I'm telling you, I'd pay. Maybe others would too. The people I've gone to strip clubs with are the same people I go to hear live music with.

    --TarzanBass

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    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    I hope you guys can be cool with each other about this. God knows it is easy to get riled up sometimes on this forum, ridiculous as it seems a week or two later. I've done it myself.

    I think TarzanBass has an idealistic vision of what could be done in a strip club, but if he could pull it off, I would be the first to cheer. Who am I to say it's completely impossible? Though it would be very hard to pull off, from my experience. If more bands had his attitude, it might be a lot easier. I don't think he really meant to be insulting--he probably just hasn't seen enough guys like philly as DJs.

    Phillydj has shown himself to be a very resourceful member with a lot to contribute here. He is no doubt very much an exception to that 85% of DJs who do so much to ruin what could be a very good thing. Some of us don't dehumanize the dancers (and ourselves in the process), but do all we can to make them feel worthy of respect as women and performers.

    And some of us are actually capable of creating a mood, an energy which is conducive to creativity--though my friends who haven't seen me in action scoff at this assertion.

    I would actually love to see a club, or clubs, which defied the rules--clubs dedicated to the Erotic Arts. Clubs where dancers, musicians, and DJs could collaborate freely. It would have to be in a big city with a very cosmopolitan and open-minded populace, and might not even work there, but we can dream, eh?
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
    George Clinton

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  15. #15
    Member TarzanBass's Avatar
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    Default Re:Live music

    DJoser, I think you make a good point that region might have a lot to do with this. What flies in Boston or SF or New Orleans wouldn't fly in Philly or Detroit. Different vibes and scenes.

    Have you heard of DJ-I-Robot?

    http://www.dj-i-robot.com/

    --TarzanBass

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