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Thread: fahrenheit 9/11

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by ace_barker link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129243#msg129 243 date=1088380857
    What a load of Bullshit.
    Nope, it's a load of propaganda (rather like the shit Karl Rove spoonfeeds us). But at least it will be entertaining propaganda.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by ace_barker link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129243#msg129 243 date=1088380857
    What a load of Bullshit.
    typical, its bullshit but u cant show any reasonable reason why- whatever u brainwashed jackass whatever

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    The whole line of shit that "this movie is all Moore's opinion" is such BS. Of course it is his opinion that bush is an asshole but he sure does back that opinion up with tons and tons of facts.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129206#msg129 206 date=1088373618
    What's the difference between a liberal and a conservative ? ...about 20 years !
    I don't know about the exact figure, but I was raised in a very conservative, Republican background, including the entire extended family on my mother's side. When I was in high school, my already extensive readings in military history made me a vociferous critic of the spineless commie sympathisers (i.e. 'liberals'--the gutless swine) who were ruining the global political situation.

    Then I started reading a lot more, about war, politics, and history. Real war, not just armchair military history--which is often dangerously akin to sportswriting--written by guys who would pee their pants if someone started shooting at them. An excellent book to read for a glimpse of what war is really like would be "With the Old Breed", by E.B. Sledge, a marine who served on Peleliu and Okinawa.

    I started looking into what percentage of the nation's wealth is owned by what percentage of the nation's population, and which way the trend is going.

    I read about the bullshit perpetrated upon America by a President almost as dishonest, deceitful, and downright frightening as Bush, Richard M. Nixon. Meanwhile, a mediocre actor steering the Ship of State had completed his second term in office. His bald-faced lies were unchallenged, since they were for the most part hokey and amusing. "There's no word for "freedom" in the Russian language..." being the most benign, his denial of involvement in the Iran/Contra affair being his most blatant and evil.

    I observed the steady and unchallenged seizure of ideological influence and power within the ranks of the party I had always believed in, by demagogues and moralistic goons whose goal is to ensure that everyone reads, writes, fucks, and spends every waking moment living in accordence with THEIR God's rules.

    I watched the Bush dynasty gain influence and go to war, selecting the human rights' violators with care, so that their constituents would profit handsomely. Forget North Korea, there's no oil there.

    I observed the party which finally decided it was time to give women the vote (Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose/Republican party adopted suffrage as a plank--though it didn't happen immediately), move farther and farther towards stifling the freedom of women to control their bodies and otherwise move beyond restrictions imposed by patriarchical society.

    Along with many of the women, and a couple of men, in the extended family founded by an industrialist of some merit (and a steadfast opponent of FDR), I renounced my conservative, Republican heritage.

    To my dismay, and sometimes my amusement, I found myself labelled a 'liberal'--the term frequently being uttered with contempt and derision, complete with accusations of my ingestion of warped and biased literature. This was in spite of my advocacy of a strong military, an invigorated Space program, the curtailment of Welfare, etc., etc.

    And then, five years ago, I started working in an industry which is fueled largely by money spent by conservatives, but is the target of a deadly assault by Christian Fundamentalists. I fear those within the industry who scoff at the ability for these elements to affect them and their livelihood are sadly mistaken at best, and delusional at worst.

    It didn't take twenty years to change my mind, but I'll be damned (literally, according to Jerry Falwell) if I will support a party that fails to stop this insane and unAmerican lunacy taking hold in its ranks.

    I will sum up with the words of a Republican...

    " 'What the Christian right spends a lot of time doing," says Marc Wolin, a moderate Republican who ran unsuccessfully for Congress from San Francisco last year, "is going after obscure party posts. They try to control the party apparatus in each county. We have a lot to fear from these people. They want to set up a theocracy in America.' "

    Guess what will happen to strippers in the theocracy?



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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Ace is a bit militant in his inability to accept that people dissagree with him, but i don't think he's brainwashed. He probably believes what he says. That said, i'll take melonies well thought out and reasoned opinions any day over arbitrary "you're wrong's" from Ace.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    We're not swallowing it, we're taking into consideration along with all the other explanations out there......
    So I guess you'll be running out and buying Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, which point-by-point exposes Moore's elitist hypocrisy?

    Just a few pieces where Moore reinvents himself at will.

    And I thought only X-Files fans were conspiracy freaks.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129272#msg129 272 date=1088383175

    So I guess you'll be running out and buying Michael Moore Is A Big Fat Stupid White Man, which point-by-point exposes Moore's elitist hypocrisy?

    Just a few pieces where Moore reinvents himself at will.
    sure why not ? Unlike some people (aka Bush Patsies) posting here I'm not opposed to looking at things from a different perspective

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Ace barker, I never said the feds are raiding my club.

    I said the feds are behind the Treasures money laundering issue.

    I know the mayor is democrat. I never said democratic politicians were going to openly support strip clubs.

    I am saying that behind the scene pressures cause the elected officials to take that direction. And those pressures come from the religious right groups.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Here is some interesting info regarding our beloved administration:

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Federalist Society, formed 20 years ago in reaction to the powers the Supreme Court was granting the Federal Government.

    It is hostile to civil rights, environmental protections, worker safety laws, a separation of church and state, and more.

    Some prominent leaders of the Religious Right play a dominant role in the Federalist Society and:

    24 of bush's top cabinent members and most of his court nominations are members of this society.

    The list includes:

    John Ashcroft, Attorney General
    Spencer Abraham, Secretary of Energy
    Gail Norton, Secretary of the Interior
    Thedore Olsen, Solicitor General
    Supreme Court Justices -Scalia and Thomas

    Orrin Hatch (Gold ole Mormon Boy)
    and our buddy- Kenneth Star.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    As soon as Clinton took office, a vast far right network was out to get him.

    Richard mellon Scaife. a MAJOR donor to the Religious Right financed the withc hunt with $2.4 million.

    Arkansas investigators used that to pay witnesses to testify against the Clintons in Whitewater. Even though no wrongdoing was commited, Clinton was stuck with the legal bills.

    Jerry Falwell and a California political group helped finance a huge anti Clinton propaganda campaign during the early years.

    The same tactics are being used on John Kerry.

    These groups are major fuckers with lots of money and clout, huh?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    The War against Women

    Here is the Religious Rights stance:

    "Wives, submit to your own husband as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife, as christ is head of the church."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Bush has cut off the $34 million a year American contribution to the UN population fund.

    He doesn't believe in money going for family planning.

    Also, federal drug regulators this year banned over the counter sales of the morning after pill.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Abstinence only Sex Education

    Bush's FY 2003 budget called for a $33 million increase in funding and is maintained in 2004 for abstinence until marriage sex education programs.

    These programs MUST refrain from any discussion of the health benefits of contraception, including condoms, in preventing unintended pregnancy, STD's and HIV/AIDS.

    In Louisiana, 7th grade abstinence only classes 1st and foremost were about terrifying diseases, boils, endless rashes, sterility and rashes and cancers along with physical and psychic morbidity with which they are punished for having sex before marriage.

    Federal monies were used to have these classes taught by faith based organizations.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT GOT SO POWERFUL BECAUSE OF VOTER APATHY, OR MANY NORMAL CITIZENS NOT VOTING!!!

    THIS VOTER APATHY OF OTHER AMERICANS IS IMPORTANT TO CHRISTIANS. "

    "If just 10% of all Christians in Americatoday woke up and realized how easy it is, got involved consistently for the long haul, it would not take long to reform America completely."

    How long?

    "Believe it or not it could be done in 10 years."

    "Every godly representative in the state legislature could work with a godly president. New judicial appointments would begin radically changing the courts."
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    When Bush talks about too much Government he means removing restrictions from big business, abolishing the IRS, making the church in charge of education and welfare, phasing out social security for a private pension plan, and taxes would be in the form of a tithe to the church of around 10% of income plus some other assessments.

    Education would have to have biblical roots as well. In other words the justifcation of everything taught would have to come from the bible.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    SO, HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT?

    Our lack of voting and involvement has allowed this element to make large headway in the republican party since 1989.

    Putting Schwartzenegger in the recall election in CA as a moderate Republican was a ploy to get democrats to cross party lines and vote Republican in an attempt to retake the largest state in the nation. People were duped.

    The state of Texas has taken blacks and hispanics out of congressional districts and moved them into already democratic ones so that republicans could have control of that state.

    One has to wonder why the good ole boys have so much power in Texas where the bulk of the population resides in Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, Austin, San Antonio, El Paso and even throw in Beaumont and Tyler all which have substantial ethnic populations and the good ole boys club still has power.

    So with all of this CRAP happening, how is Michael Moore the bad guy?

    He might just be saving us from a situation we could never recover from if we all make sure to vote George W and that party OUT of office, right??

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    The Federalist Society, formed 20 years ago in reaction to the powers the Supreme Court was granting the Federal Government.
    Thank Christ for that. The Federalist Society knows what the Constitutional responsibilities of the judiciary are, and that legislating from the bench isn't part of that. Constitutional lawyers and jurists adhering to a strict constructionist view make up the bulk of Federalist Society members. There wouldn't be a Federalist Society if the left wasn't making law from the bench--it's a case of reaping what's been sown.

    Bush has cut off the $34 million a year American contribution to the UN population fund.
    Great! The UN is a bloated bureaucracy that lives to thwart American influence. They're great at delivering polio vaccines and drilling water wells, but they are completely incapable of dealing with conflict.

    Bush's FY 2003 budget called for a $33 million increase in funding and is maintained in 2004 for abstinence until marriage sex education programs.
    Total waste of money. The federal government should have nothing to do with sex education, or any education, outside of student loan funding. Abolish the Department of Education.

    Here is the Religious Rights stance:

    "Wives, submit to your own husband as to the Lord, for the husband is head of the wife, as christ is head of the church."
    Here's a tip, Tina; don't marry a Promisekeeper, and you'll be fine.

    THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT GOT SO POWERFUL BECAUSE OF VOTER APATHY, OR MANY NORMAL CITIZENS NOT VOTING!!!
    No, the right came to be powerful because there were enough of them pissed off about something (or many things) to become organized, financed and active. This is not unusual or unique to the right side of the political spectrum.

    When Bush talks about too much Government he means removing restrictions from big business, abolishing the IRS, making the church in charge of education and welfare, phasing out social security for a private pension plan,
    Great! Too bad the DNC is too strong and too stupid to know that we need radical tax reform, local educational control, and the elimination of social security as we know it. Ah well, you can't win them all. Not all at once anyway.

    The state of Texas has taken blacks and hispanics out of congressional districts and moved them into already democratic ones so that republicans could have control of that state.
    It's called racial gerrymandering, and the DNC has made an art out of it in the last forty years. They just don't like that they're not controlling enough state houses to prevent it from happening to them anymore.

    So with all of this CRAP happening, how is Michael Moore the bad guy?
    He's not the bad guy; he's simply representing himself and his agenda as that of the common man when he's as elitist as they come. Michael Moore can do as he will; some of us just aren't going to accept his slickly-edited agenda as historical fact, knowing his professional tendencies.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129316#msg129 316 date=1088391584
    ...some of us just aren't going to accept his slickly-edited agenda as historical fact, knowing his professional tendencies.
    That's exactly the way I, and a growing number of people, feel about Bush. At least Moore isn't sending anyone to get his balls blown off for Halliburton, et al...
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

    Free your mind, and your ass will follow.
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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129226#msg129 226 date=1088378357
    Well IMHO this election could be pivotal to the near term future of strip clubs and dancers' incomes - but not for the reasons that you think. I would make the case that if democrats regain power, anticipation of the return to tax and spend policies will tank the stock market, tank the economic recovery, and as a result leave strip club customers with significantly less 'discretionary' money to spend in strip clubs.
    LOL, where have you been the last 4 years, that's exactly what has already happened under Bush, have you seen the size of the deficit Bush has run up, have you seen the rise in unemployment, the outsourcing of jobs, the stagnating wages, all of which lead to a poor stock market and less "discretionary" spending money.




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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    He picked Ashcroft.

    If there's a more damning thing about GWB i don't know what it is.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122680,00.html

    'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation :o Tuesday, June 15, 2004
    By Roger Friedman
    PHOTOS



    'Fahrenheit 9/11' Gets Standing Ovation ???

    The crowd that gave Michael Moore's controversial "Fahrenheit 9/11" documentary a standing ovation last night at the Ziegfeld Theater premiere certainly didn't have to be encouraged to show their appreciation. From liberal radio host/writer Al Franken to actor/director Tim Robbins, Moore was in his element.

    But once "F9/11" gets to audiences beyond screenings, it won't be dependent on celebrities for approbation. It turns out to be a really brilliant piece of work, and a film that members of all political parties should see without fail.

    As much as some might try to marginalize this film as a screed against President George Bush, "F9/11" — as we saw last night — is a tribute to patriotism, to the American sense of duty — and at the same time a indictment of stupidity and avarice.

    Readers of this column may recall that I had a lot of problems with Moore's "Bowling for Columbine," particularly where I thought he took gratuitous shots at helpless targets such as Charlton Heston. "Columbine" too easily succeeded by shooting fish in a barrel, as they used to say.


    Not so with "F9/11," which instead relies on lots of film footage and actual interviews to make its case against the war in Iraq and tell the story of the intertwining histories of the Bush and bin Laden families.

    First, I know you want to know who came to the Ziegfeld, so here is a partial list:

    Besides Franken and Robbins, Al Sharpton, Mike Myers, Tony Bennett, Glenn Close, Gretchen Mol (newly married over the weekend to director Todd Williams), Lori Singer, Tony Kushner, "Angela's Ashes" author Frank McCourt, Jill Krementz and Kurt Vonnegut, Lauren Bacall (chatting up a fully refurbished Lauren Hutton), Richard Gere, John McEnroe and Patti Smythe, former U.N. ambassador Richard Holbrooke, Carson Daly, NBC's Jeff Zucker, a very pregnant Rory Kennedy, playwright Israel Horovitz, Macaulay Culkin, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Kyra Sedgwick, Linda Evangelista, Ed Bradley, Tom and Meredith Brokaw, director Barry Levinson, NBC anchor Brian Williams, Vernon Jordan, Eva Mendes, Sandra Bernhard and the always humorous Joy Behar.

    If that's not enough, how about Yoko Ono, accompanied by her son, Sean, who's let his hair grow out and is now sporting a bushy beard that makes him look like his late, beloved father John Lennon?

    And then, just to show you how much people wanted to see this film, there was Martha Stewart, looking terrific. I mean, talk about an eclectic group!

    Now, unless you've been living under a rock, you know that this movie has been the cause of a lot of trouble. Miramax and Disney have gone to war over it, and "The Passion of the Christ" seems like "Mary Poppins" in retrospect. Before anyone's even seen it, there have been partisan debates over which way Moore may have spun this or that to get a desired effect.

    But, really, in the end, not seeing "F9/11" would be like allowing your First Amendment rights to be abrogated, no matter whether you're a Republican or a Democrat.

    The film does Bush no favors, that's for sure, but it also finds an unexpectedly poignant and universal groove in the story of Lila Lipscombe, a Flint, Mich., mother who sends her kids into the Army for the opportunities it can provide — just like the commercials say — and lives to regret it.

    Lipscombe's story is so powerful, and so completely middle-American, that I think it will take Moore's critics by surprise. She will certainly move to tears everyone who encounters her.

    "F9/11" isn't perfect, and of course, there are leaps of logic sometimes. One set piece is about African-American congressmen and women presenting petitions on the Florida recount, and wondering why there are no senators to support them.

    Indeed, those absent senators include John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy, among others, which Moore does not elaborate upon. At no point are liberals or Democrats taken to task for not supporting these elected officials, and I would have liked to have seen that.

    On the other hand, there are more than enough moments that seemed to resonate with the huge Ziegfeld audience.

    The most indelible is Bush's reaction to hearing on the morning of Sept. 11, 2001, that the first plane had crashed into the World Trade Center.

    Bush was reading to a grade-school class in Florida at that moment. Instead of jumping up and leaving, he instead sat in front of the class, with an unfortunate look of confusion, for nearly 11 minutes.

    Moore obtained the footage from a teacher at the school who videotaped the morning program. There Bush sits, with no access to his advisers, while New York is being viciously attacked. I guarantee you that no one who sees this film forgets this episode.

    More than even "The Passion of the Christ," "F9/11" is going to be a "see it for yourself" movie when it hits theaters on June 25. It simply cannot be missed, and I predict it will be a huge moneymaker.

    And that's where Disney's Michael Eisner comes in. Not releasing this film will turn out to be the curse of his career.

    When Eisner came into Disney years ago, the studio was at a low point. He turned it around with a revived animation department and comedy hits such as "Pretty Woman" and "Down and Out in Beverly Hills."

    But Eisner's short-sightedness on many recent matters has been his undoing. And this last misadventure is one that will follow him right out the doors of the Magic Kingdom.


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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by bjmcinti link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg127988#msg127 988 date=1088180151
    Hey! If you are coing to make a point - please state your arguements. In your post, I see not clear information as to your beliefs! If you can provide a little more research as to why you believe the way that you do, I would like to read it! SO far, you are only saying that you do not like President Bush. I do not consider that an act of treason, what I do consider an act of treason is making a documentary that is slanderous of the leader of our country.
    Big D
    Look out, it's the treason police!!!


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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Considering the fact that TREASON is a crime punishable by death, people need to stop slinging that word around as easily as they do. Free speech isn't easy, half the time you won't like what you hear.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Big D - How are you so painfully Naive ? What you need to go do is go watch the movie for yourself and see what's up. Instead of talking about it, be about it. Close-minded people like yourself will have the most to learn from this movie.

    For the record I don't agree with everything Moore does and says but he makes enough valid factual points in this movie that as a responsible american everyone should see this movie. It shows politics at their nastiest, the stuff they don't show on the heavily government media we have in this country. Just seeing the irrefutible facts surrounding the election, Bush's history and the obscure footage of Bush is enough reason to see the movie.

    I guess my point is don't talk shit about the movie when you haven't seen it. Do yourself a favor, take 8 bucks, go see the movie and then come back and join the conversation.


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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Dallas has her opinion, that's cool. I wish she wouldn;t use the word "Treason" (Considering it's a crime comparable to Murder on the books) but what can ya do. She may have seen Bowling for Columbine and formulater her thoughts based on that.

    Personally, i think Moore is more about Moore than he is about anything else. But, sure, i'll see his propaganda. It's like Al Franken, at least he's entertaining.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129085#msg129 085 date=1088346287
    A little harsh don't you thinK? I am very spiritual. It is obvious that you are not...what a shame.

    Applaud you? Shit! I'd like to smack you across the face!

    You should be ashamed.

    Are you doing too many drugs? Yes, it is all a conspiracy to fuck you!

    However, I would not bash you for your beliefs.
    "However i would not want to bash your beliefs" WTF! are you kidding me?

    Oh and btw great comments .. how very "spritual" and "christain-like" of you

    Seraya.


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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    If anyone believes this is an accurate representation of reality, remind yourself of Hollywood's portrayal of dancers/strippers.

    Then keep telling yourself "This movie is different. This movie is different."

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    LOL, where have you been the last 4 years, that's exactly what has already happened under Bush, have you seen the size of the deficit Bush has run up, have you seen the rise in unemployment, the outsourcing of jobs, the stagnating wages, all of which lead to a poor stock market and less "discretionary" spending money.
    If you'll check the stock market ticker you'll see that the downturn happened in the summer/fall of 1999, and George W. wasn't inaugurated until January 2001. While a lot of the aftermath of the economic downturn continued to hit on Bush's watch, the seeds of that downturn were planted throughout the second half of the '90's as a result of Bill Clinton's economic policies. These included incremental tax increases, tons of additional government regulations on businesses, a strengthening US dollar etc.

    Most of the actual decisions made by US corporations to start moving offshore were made in the late 90's - however it took a couple of years for those decisions to become reality. This time lag between cause and effect is typical, and also explains why it took a year or so for Bush's tax cuts to re-stimulate the economy, and for the stock market to return to the same level it was at when Bush took office.

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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg129352#msg129 352 date=1088398922

    Pathetic is coming on to this site and making a comlete ass of yourself! Kiss my republican, educated, non-abortion having

    Big D

    70% of MEN are against abortion. 100% of these men will never get pregnant.
    Oh and of course you are a non-abortion having You are a man.


  23. #148
    Pamela
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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Wow what a thread!

    When it comes out on DVD if my ex (who watches movies at home) asks me over. Other than that, i wont pay to see it.

    Pamela

  24. #149
    God/dess Lexi's Avatar
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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Hey for some reason I thought your name was Big DJ (oops)
    Anyway my comment was if you were male. Obviously ANY one is entitled to theirr own opinion regarding abortion. I was saying though, that men are usually the ones who are against it...

  25. #150
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re:fahrenheit 9/11

    Quote Originally Posted by bjmcinti link=board=1;threadid=10447;start=msg127988#msg127 988 date=1088180151
    I do not consider that an act of treason, what I do consider an act of treason is making a documentary that is slanderous of the leader of our country.
    Big D
    Would this include potential numerous acts of "treason" commited between January 1993 and January 2001? I'm curious.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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