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Thread: Dancer and escort - why?

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    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Dancer and escort - why?

    I know that some here do not like to discuss (or even admit, in some cases) connections between dancing and escort/prostitution work. If you are among that group, please do not continue to read this. I am posting not to offend anyone but only to report an interesting point made to me recently by a dancer-escort.

    I had several lap dances from a stripper at a well known club in Seattle a few weeks ago, dropped maybe $200 on her. She was pretty permissive and aggressive with her "extras", so I was not all that surprised when she offerred me her number and said that she would be happy to meet me for more totally satisfying experiences at either my place or hers; it was a pretty straightforward proposition.

    Anyway, we got to talking about various things, and she struck me as a smart and sensible person, so I asked her why she worked as a dancer instead of as just directly as an escort, given that she found the latter an acceptable way of making money. Her reply was interesting and reasonable enough to bear repeating I thought:

    She said that she had indeed worked strictly as an escort previouslly and that the part she couldn't stand was the danger of being hassled or assaulted by customers and the stress of worrying about it, etc. I got the impression that she might have had some rough/bad experiences, but she did not detail any. But she said that she found meeting customers in the strip club to be a wonderful way of screening them. She simply did not give her number to a guy until she felt comfortable that he would not be dangerous, difficult, unpleasant, cheap etc. She claimed that this worked well for her and that she only needed to dance a couple of nights per week to find enough clients to keep her busy in her work as an escort. Again she did not say so explicitly, but I'd guess that she made most of her income doing escort work.

    Anyway, while I am sure that many here will disapprove or disagree with her approach, I thought that it was at least a rational and interesting explanation.

    -Ww
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    While I can see how working out of a club might offer an extra level of safety to prostitutes but I still disagree with them using clubs for that reason. I feel that they should go work out of legal brothels instead.

    A brothel offers the most security in all areas (health physical abuse, etc.) as well a steady stream of customers.

    I cannot and do not respect a prostitute who works out of a stripclub as she puts everyone else at risk and I find that very selfish and offensive.

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wwanderer link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134348#msg13 4348 date=1089235584
    ...she said that she found meeting customers in the strip club to be a wonderful way of screening them.
    Because we all know people never lie or pretend to be someone they are not in a stripclub. I don't buy the whole, "it's safer to meet men this way" argument. She's just using the club, endangering all the girls trying to make a living strictly dancing, and trying to justify her own selfishness with that safety B.S.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    I think it's possible to get a decent read in a club, but I have a feeling she does it to feel better about herself

    So she can say she's a dancer and not a whore....

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134381#msg13 4381 date=1089238561
    I think it's possible to get a decent read in a club, but I have a feeling she does it to feel better about herself

    So she can say she's a dancer and not a whore....
    I absolutely think that has ALOT to do with it for these women and for the customers who seek extras as well. They don't want to admit they are John's and the women don't want to admit they are whores. It's total denial of the truth.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    I think it's just wrong. She may be screening for potential "customers", but she's making my job harder because I am not doing that. Yet, because of people like her, I get propositioned all night long. Don't give bj's or hj's? Well, there goes my money...won't meet someone outside of the club (this is just creepy) there goes a potential regular.

    Sure, it's nice to be able to get to know someone before banging them, but couldn't she just put an ad in the paper...meet them in public and then do as much as she wants? I mean, if she gets caught (in some states) she not only puts the club at risk, but if the police decide to raid, ALL of the dancers go down--even if they did nothing wrong--because of the "selfishness" of one dancer.

    Dancing and escorting do not combine.

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    venus....

    all things considered, would you really want a regular that was ultimately looking for extras?

    the best revenge against extra girls is to make the same (or more!) and not ever have to put up with the shit they put up with.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134381#msg13 4381 date=1089238561
    I think it's possible to get a decent read in a club, but I have a feeling she does it to feel better about herself

    So she can say she's a dancer and not a whore....
    LE hangs at clubs all the time (and are skilled) so she probably would be much safer, from an entrapment standpoint, to just work her website and/or escort BB's. From a customer appearance standpoint, not all hookers want to screw any guy that has the money to pay. Its nice to scope out the prospective customer and bang the bongos without puking afterwards.

    Emily, I suspect most have gotten over the fact that they are escorts. I dont think the W word would phase them really. Hell, to the uninitiated, being a dancer carries almost the same stigma. Thats why many many dancers hide their employment from their friends and family. How many posts have we seen here where dancers are crying about being discovered? Its sad really. I believe stripping is an honorable profession but I dont have a problem with escorts either.

    TL, once again, you are equating extras at a club with prostitution. You appear to have a huge issue with it, presumably because you believe those alledged activities are cutting into your money. I can see where you might bitch about it but to call them whores? I say this as a guy who doesnt ask for or even like extras in a club. And trust me, Im well enough known that I could get them if I wanted. Id rather hang out, tip all the ladies I know generously, get a nice buzz and look forward to seeing the select few outside the club. Its a win-win. The dancers I like are going to get their fair share plus the club gets its cut too.

    Wwanderer, I enjoyed your post but as a word of warning...be careful of the topics you post. If you want interaction here and to be accepted, its pretty much a requirement to avoid certain topics and march in lock step with the majority of the dancers "public" opinions. Just review the posts and see who the "popular" guys are. How do you spell suckup?

    FBR




    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    this topic is: Same shit, different day.


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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    I never understood this "girls giving extras cut in to my money" thing. I've worked at a club that was ridden with extras and there were allot of nights I walked out with more money by just dancing than girls giving out hj's and bj's did....so I don't agree with that mentality.

    Do what you want. If I were a provider, I would go about it the same way this chick does. When an escort takes an appointment, it's not like she can ask the guy to send her a photo along with his references. I'd rather know that the guy is attractive enough to turn me on and make me want to give him my number.

    I have friends who are providers.....escorts, whatever. I don't care. If that's how they want to make money so be it, but I guarantee you, they are no different from you or I and if you met one on the street you'd have no idea.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134433#msg13 4433 date=1089244526
    this topic is: Same shit, different day.
    Saphire I agree...I just couldnt resist

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    At the risk of infecting MissT with my "cheats on his wife and brags about it" germs, I like her attitude. Same goes for Melonie whom Ive never spoken to but for whom I have great respect for her brains. She has the most realistic attitude Ive ever seen about the whole topic. She doesnt approve or agree but totally understands the economic and social dynamics.

    FBR

    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134433#msg13 4433 date=1089244526
    this topic is: Same shit, different day.
    My feelings exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerlilly link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134369#msg13 4369 date=1089237388
    I feel that they should go work out of legal brothels instead.
    Just had to add here.. Please don't suggest a 'legal brothel' as being some viable alternative because it's really not a legitimate answer. It would be nice if it were, but at current it is not... and completely unrealistic by any stretch of the imagination.

    One of my 'extras' yielding friends has returned from her yearly 14-day brothel stay and believe me, it's a total fucking joke:
    - You have to relocate to Nevada
    - You are sequestered from the outside world, 24/7 for several day stretches (by law to remove mid-STD test disease contagion)
    - You are forced to eat, sleep and bathe on the schedule created by the house 24/7
    - When you are allowed out of the brothel, it's only for enough time to grab shampoo, soap and a newspaper before performing your next STD check then back to being sequesterd in the 'house.
    - The house has a daily fee PLUS takes a 50% cut.. PLUS, as it's W-2/taxed paycheck so you also suffer complete automatic full withholdings from fed/state on every penny. (read McDonalds paycheck)
    - The house sets all prices so you have to work on their pricing schedule (you want to be woken up at 4:00am on a Wednesday morning for a $90 half-hour customer, from which you'll see $11 and change after cut, fee and taxes?).
    - Many houses have fixed fees without a variance by girl... that's right, you'll be working for the same price as the overweight, buck-toothed girl with 50 tattoos even if you're a supermodel.
    - Line-up ability can be based on favoritism or kick-downs amongst other girls at the 'house.

    Sorry to go off topic a little bit, but I do hear this 'legal brothel' scape goat thrown into the extras equation and it's unfortunately an unrealistic suggestion. Plenty of extras strippers and escorts have indeed tried this route and have always come back utterly traumatized from the experience and with less money than they could have made working at Target as a cashier, all for having to fuck a half dozen sweat stinking desert guys.

    If you're against extras, by all means this is a valid and realistic opinion... but brothels are unfortunately in invalid, fictional and completely unrealistic solution. If you are some four-time AVN award winning ex-porn star that can "feature" anywhere in the country for $2000/hr, then yah- brothels might bend the rules a bit and allow you to "feature" at their houses.. for all other realistic scenarios though, they are a completely invalid alternative.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    If I were a provider, I would go about it the same way this chick does. When an escort takes an appointment, it's not like she can ask the guy to send her a photo along with his references. I'd rather know that the guy is attractive enough to turn me on and make me want to give him my number.
    Sounds perfectly logical to me.

    I have friends who are providers.....escorts, whatever. I don't care. If that's how they want to make money so be it, but I guarantee you, they are no different from you or I and if you met one on the street you'd have no idea.
    Agreed.

    Sapphire, that&#039;s a great new avatar. <S>
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    FBR, you won&#039;t infect me with anything, don&#039;t worry

    I believe the men aren&#039;t paying the escorts for sex, they&#039;re paying them to leave!

  16. #16
    Pamela
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Nothing i read in that post was news to me. Hit the clubs i do in south Florida, you see it all the time. I really don&#039;t understand the point of the message this person wrote. Maybe i just don&#039;t get it.

    Hell my ex went to a club and picked up a ummmm dancer i guess you would call that if you like your sex with alot of different men she had before you, oh and he learned the hard way. Nothing new, it&#039;s all over. It&#039;s also YOUR health.

    Play safe

    Pamela

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Nothing i read in that post was news to me. you see it all the time. I really don&#039;t understand the point of the message this person wrote. Maybe i just don&#039;t get it. :-

    I don&#039;t get it either, Pam. Also, there is a lot about this topic, escorting?, & self defense techniques, in pg 2 of Other Work.


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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Anyway, while I am sure that many here will disapprove or disagree with her approach, I thought that it was at least a rational and interesting explanation

    Same goes for Melonie whom Ive never spoken to but for whom I have great respect for her brains. She has the most realistic attitude Ive ever seen about the whole topic. She doesnt approve or agree but totally understands the economic and social dynamics.
    First of all, I have absolutely no problem with girls who choose to escort. However, I do have a problem when they are soliciting customers for after hours action in the same club I am working in. I have a much larger problem if they are offering customers &#039;samples&#039; inside the club i.e. extras.

    While using a club to &#039;screen&#039; potential johns might be relatively safe and convenient for the escort/dancer, the fact that she is connecting prostitute/club/club dancers in the mind of both customers and anybody else who might be interested (i.e. local cops) creates an element of risk for both the club and the other dancers. If the escort/dancer is also prone to giving out samples i.e. extras inside the club, this creates an even greater risk for both the club and the other dancers.

    An escort/dancer may indeed create a negative impact on the earnings potential of other dancers who have chosen not to provide the same after hours action or extras inside the club. But this fact pales in comparison to the potential risk of cops being led to the club due to the escort/dancer&#039;s activities, with the potential outcome of bogus busts for other dancers.

    I&#039;ve been there, done that, and it cost me nearly 10 grand in legal fees, unreimbursed travel expenses and lost work to finally clear my name and avoid being saddled with a bogus misdemeanor prostitution charge simply because I was present when other girls were doing extras and local cops chose to bust everybody and let the judge sort it out.

    Some other girls who were also just dancing, but who did not have the ready cash to retain a good criminal attorney and bankroll an appeal of the bogus bust, wound up taking a plea bargain, paying a $500 fine, but also having a sexually related misdemeanor lewd conduct conviction on their permanent records. That record of conviction will prevent them from obtaining dancers&#039; licenses in cities that require them, and may also affect any attempts later in life for these girls to be hired for decent straight jobs. IMHO this was a hell of a high price to pay because a couple of dancer/escorts were also working out of the same club.

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    Featured Member SCGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    I think a lot of the girls on here are being super hypocritical. If anyone would understand this girl&#039;s position, it should be you guys. I understand your arguments about providing extras HOWEVER I don&#039;t see her as offering extras and I&#039;ll tell you why. She is NOT the girl in the club who gives it all up during a $20 lap dance. She&#039;s a dancer, no different than you. She&#039;s not giving bjs or hjs in the VIP room. She is a dancer when she is at work, that&#039;s all. So what if she hands them a card and says, "if you wanna meet up outside the club here&#039;s how to get a hold of me"?! Is that really a world different than her saying "I&#039;m a psychic, I&#039;d like to give you a reading" or "I like you, come by my shop and I&#039;ll give you a free hair-cut"? Some would argue it is, but I disagree. Just because it has to do with sex, and stripping is a sex-related industry, doesn&#039;t mean they have to interfere with each other. She&#039;s conducting an unrelated business OUTSIDE of the club. She&#039;s just using the club for advertising and I, for one, could think of a better or more safe environment to do it in. Think about it from her point of view. If you were into escorting, wouldn&#039;t you do the same?

    And why, may I ask, is an escort a whore?! That&#039;s seems awfully close-minded of you to say. For many people in this country, they consider nudity sacred. WHen you take your top off and want to get paid for it, they call you a whore. You take offense to that. You consider sex acts sacred. When this woman has sex with these men and wants to get paid, you call HER a whore. So what if she doesn&#039;t put the same stock in sex that you do? You don&#039;t put the same stock in nudity that other people do! Sex being sacred is a religious and cultural conept. It isn&#039;t sacred to animals. It isn&#039;t sacred in certain cultures or religions. It&#039;s all just a societal construct like language. Why do people get offended by the word "fuck"? Because society tells us that "fuck" is a bad and offensive word. Does anyone see my point here?

    I guess my basic point is that, if guys are in the club to get dances, they&#039;ll get dances. If the guys are there for extras, she&#039;ll take them outside the club for it. She&#039;s not doing the other dancer&#039;s a disservice. If the guy wants sex, he&#039;ll get it from somewhere. Be happy he won&#039;t be barking at you for it! She&#039;s a dancer and is there to dance. As long as she&#039;s doing her job and not breaking the rules, I really can&#039;t understand your problem with it.
    "You did then what you knew how to do; when you knew better, you did better" ~Maya Angelou

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    So what if she hands them a card and says, "if you wanna meet up outside the club here&#039;s how to get a hold of me"?! Is that really a world different than her saying "I&#039;m a psychic, I&#039;d like to give you a reading" or "I like you, come by my shop and I&#039;ll give you a free hair-cut"? Some would argue it is, but I disagree. Just because it has to do with sex, and stripping is a sex-related industry, doesn&#039;t mean they have to interfere with each other. She&#039;s conducting an unrelated business OUTSIDE of the club.
    Sorry, but there&#039;s a massive distinction here. Psychic readings and hair cuts are legal businesses, escorting is not. Handing out psychic or hair salon business cards is not going to attract the attention of local cops - advertising escort services will ! I agree that these days strip clubs are considered to be part of the sex business - however - there are legal sex businesses and illegal sex businesses. With all of the popular misconceptions about dancers stemming from the Hollywood stereotype, all cops need is a whiff that something illegal is going on to potentially come down on the club and EVERYBODY working there. Once charged, it is extremely difficult for a clean dancer to prove her innocence in a court of law when the jury consists of housewives, bible thumpers, civil servants, retirees etc. who in their own minds already know that every stripper is a lying, stealing, drug addicted whore.

    I know that in an ideal world where cops actually investigated every detail before making busts and where judges actually listened to both sides of every case that no additional risk should exist for clean dancers. However, we live in the real world and, trust me, things just don&#039;t work that way. In the real world, if a clean dancer is bogusly busted, unless there is a club security tape available which clearly proves her innocence, she WILL be found guilty by the first local judge that hears her case. An appeals court WILL listen to both sides of the story, and WILL dismiss the charges unless the cops can come up with hard evidence - BUT - to get to appeals court requires a criminal attorney and lots of time and money on the part of the clean dancer (which will not be refunded when the charges are dropped) !

    I&#039;m sure that your opinion would change quickly if your club is ever swept on a friday night because a dancer is escorting or offering extras at your club and has attracted the attention of undercover cops, after you&#039;ve been bogusly busted and spent the night in a holding cell, and at 5am some magistrate asks you to pony up $500 cash bail (which you probably didn&#039;t earn yet by the time the cops busted the club) or spend a free weekend in the county lockup until you can be brought before a judge on monday morning.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by FBR link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134425#msg13 4425 date=1089243720

    TL, once again, you are equating extras at a club with prostitution. You appear to have a huge issue with it, presumably because you believe those alledged activities are cutting into your money. I can see where you might bitch about it but to call them whores?
    Wrong. I already stated why I dislike them so -- because they put everyone else at risk. I like many others define extras as things like BJ&#039;s, HJ&#039;s FS ( which are indeed acts of prostitution)

    If their activities cut into my money, I wasn&#039;t aware of it and neither is my bank account BTW- I am retired and odds are will never need to work every again and I&#039;m not quite 30 so I guess that blows your theory FBR

    As for calling them whores, that&#039;s what they are -- it&#039;s one of several words that describe their profession and I have heard plenty of them call themselves that as well so I really don&#039;t see what is wrong with it. And yes I know people have called me that because I danced so save it .

    Would you be more comfortable if I used one of those sugar coated in denial terms like "Provider"

    Quote Originally Posted by FBR link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134425#msg13 4425 date=1089243720
    its pretty much a requirement to avoid certain topics and march in lock step with the majority of the dancers "public" opinions. Just review the posts and see who the "popular" guys are. How do you spell suckup?
    And ofcourse none of that goes on on the the Junkie/Blue site. You guys are just so accepting to upscale club customers who aren&#039;t into the highest mileage they can get, right ? Give me a break

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    Featured Member SCGirl's Avatar
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    ok, I understand your point Melonie....but it wasn&#039;t what I was trying to get at. People on this site tend to snub escorts because they are "whores" or what-have you, not because what they are doing is illegal. Of course I understand that advertising illegal businesses is a bad idea no matter what--be it downloaded DVDs, sex, or anything else--I wouldn&#039;t argue that at all.
    "You did then what you knew how to do; when you knew better, you did better" ~Maya Angelou

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Again, please don&#039;t misinterpret my own position on escorts. Escorting is actually hard work and "honest" work compared to dancers offering extras in clubs. I have absolutely no problem with girls who choose to work exclusively as escorts. But the minute an escort dances and does escorting in the same town, and shares the same customers both inside a club and after hours, it is definitely a magnet to attract attention from local cops. Once the attention of local cops has been focused on a club, the dancer/escort is putting everybody else who works there at risk of a bogus bust even if every other dancer is actually squeaky clean and law abiding.

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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=27;threadid=10834;start=msg134533#msg13 4533 date=1089257257
    Again, please don&#039;t misinterpret my own position on escorts. Escorting is actually hard work and "honest" work compared to dancers offering extras in clubs. I have absolutely no problem with girls who choose to work exclusively as escorts.

    I feel the same way. If they want to do that and are only putting their own behinds at risk, fine it&#039;s their bodies and their lives. But if they CHOOSE to put lots of others at risk while doing their job, well then I have a problem. That I can&#039;t and wont respect.

    I have the upmost respect for the hookers who work out of the NV brothels. Why because they are completely honest. They work legal and in a safe ( std tested) enviroment plus I am pretty sure they all pay taxes too

  25. #25
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    Default Re:Dancer and escort - why?

    A lot of interesting responses - thanks!

    A few comments in return:

    - I agree with the point so many have made that this dancer-escort&#039;s technique for screening her customers puts the other dancers (as well as club owners etc) at legal risk. The thought actually occurred to me while we were talking, and maybe I should have asked her about it...might still if I ever see her again, but I didn&#039;t. It seemed a bit too critical/aggressive, and I did not want to spoil the friendly mood of our conversation.

    - Destiny, while you are certainly right that her system does not make her perfectly safe (obviously someone might fool her in the club and turn ugly in private), I think it is pretty obvious that it must help. Surely she can spot at least some guys who would be bad news as customers for her escort services. In most modes of being a prostitute, the woman has no idea at all who will be on the other side of the door, so to speak, until it opens. Her system almost certainly makes her work as an escort much much easier and less stressful for her.

    - Emily & Tigerlilly, while I agree that there are prostitutes and johns who use the fact that they meet via strip clubs as an aid to their denial, the dancer I was talking to is not one of them imo. Once the topic was broached and we got to talking, she seemed completely comfortable discussing her work and history as a prostitute. This is the situation for most prostitutes, btw; they may or may not like the work, but most are completely aware of what they are doing. (And, btw and fwiiw, I am happy to admit that I have been a john frequently...for decades and all over the world...and plan to continue buying sex as long as I continue to enjoy it. Not all are in denial on the guy&#039;s side of the bed either.)

    - FBR, thanks for the warning, but I don&#039;t plan to worry about it; if it makes me unpopular (or even gets me banned) here, so be it. However, in my experience, you can discuss a lot of "forbidden topics" (in many contexts and venues) if you are polite, respectful and straightforward about it. We&#039;ll see.

    - polecat is certainly right about legal brothels not being a realistic alternative (in this country).

    - SCGirl, I completely agree with your basic point about the sad and ironic hypocrisy in the world of sex work. It runs through and through I am afraid. Dancers look down on prostitutes. Dancers look down on dancers who are more permissive (provide more of those so loosely defined "extras") than they are. I remember before lap dances were common when many dancers looked down on other dancers who worked in lap dance clubs at all...called them "whores" typically. And it runs into the world of prostitution too. Fancy, upscale indies who see only wealthy white-collar professional clients look down on the women who work for outcall agencies or in massage parlours...who in turn look down on the streetwalkers and so on. It is too bad that so many (not all, I know) are so willing to make themselves feel better by condemning others and fail to see that they are themselves the victims of essentially identical morally superior attitudes held by others...including the public at large. <sigh>

    Anyway, my original point was not to convince anyone that this young woman was behaving in a completely fair, unselfish and acceptable way; rather I just wanted to point out that she was doing something quite deliberately which is perfectly sensible and understandable from her own perspective...as MissT points out.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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