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Thread: right to vote

  1. #26
    Veteran Member Ferrari's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by urnemesis link=board=1;threadid=10934;start=msg136329#msg136 329 date=1089663836
    I myself am an x con
    No, really? I'm shocked... :o

    Sorry, couldn't resist!
    Like the car, I'm exotic, erotic, and expensive....

  2. #27
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Laws should be applied equally. I'm all in favor of somebody criminally responsible for draining retirement accounts to get more of a sentence than someone who stole one person's cash and credit cards.

    Here's the reality. 98% of cases are pled out. "Hey, Mr. Criminal, if you plead guilty, the prosectuor will agree to four years. With good behavior, you can be out in two. If we take it to trial, you might be found not guilty, but they've got a good case - and if you're found guilty, jail time is up to the judge, and he can give you up to 16."

    Felons aren't denied the right to vote (or run for office or sit on a jury or face decreased employment opportunity) because of their influence on the voting pool. It's because they have proved themselves unwilling to live inside society's rules. So they lose some of the benefits of society, at least for a while.

    Anyone who kills or robs or rapes or steals or deals or cheats knows that they could go to jail. They're willing to take the risk. They make the choice to do what they do. If they're caught, they face the consequences. (That's the long version of "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.")

    It would be nice if jail was for rehabilitation, but we don't have the desire or the resources for rehabilitative efforts for everyone. Really, the practical purpose of prison is to warehouse criminals from the population so they don't have a chance to harm society while they're in jail. It used to be a tactic to make it nasty enough that they don't want to go back, but it's not quite working that way anymore. For that matter, a large number of first-time felons never see the inside of a state prison.

    Rehabilitation would be nice, but voters are having a hard time even wanting to fund prison space, let alone starting rehab programs. Whether we should have as many people in jail is another issue. The question was asked about the ones who are or have been.

    While I agree that people shouldn't be judged for what they might do, the sad fact remains that about half of those who leave state prison return there, whether for a new offense or they get parole revoked on the existing one.

    "The government commits crimes, so I can too." Now, there's a recipe for anarchy. I don't think the public or the prosecutors will buy into it.

    Ferrari, you don't need to apologize. You told him it was coming!

  3. #28
    Veteran Member urnemesis's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    polecat who the hell said i did not know it was illegle i knew it was when i did it.
    bush clinton and jfk all used drugs or are you so gullable and belive he did not inhale. but they dont get to go to jail buit can be president .

    white has nothing to do with anything thier are plenty of white minorities out their num nuts.
    selling drugs is not a color thing the designer of the Escalade was a jap.

    As far as a normal job in this day and age all dealers have a legal side job.

    its people like you that try to make threads about race puerto rican black white all have done time or are you one of the ones that think white people dont go to jail.

    As far as liquor store or tobacco shop owners driving hot rides i have seen alot of them with fly whips.

    My point is what the hell does going to jail have to do with voting why dont they take away the right to pay taxe's humm why voting.

    My crime was conspiricy to distibute 80lb when i asked to see it they lowerd it to 30 again i asked to see it yet agin they lowerd it to the point of 1 pound that was never produced .

    Yet i went away for conspiring to sell somthing i never had fuck that and they take my right to vote not that i would use it. no mater who wins we loose.

    90% of cospierisy drug cases are won on apeal to the lost of tax payer dollers.

    its all a scam.

    And another thing why do they crack down only in election year thease basterds spend three years doing nothing but in the fourth year they fool people like you into thinking they are doing thier job gullable voters always being led by words.

    You wana by the brooklyn bridge.

    AS far as everyone breaking the law we all do it maybe not as bad as others but we do the resone that some dont know it is they dont know all the laws.

    \examples giving head against the law in some state.

    that littile black cable box some of us have breaking the law .

    eating a red light breaking the law.

    speeding breaking the law.

    while they are small breaks in the law they are physical breaking of the law.

    conspiericy is not a physical crime its verble its stupid.
    as far as imagrants voting the mayor of ny is trying to alllow none citizen voting.

    and as far as being an xcon i am not ashamed of it i did mine half of you would have hunged yourself in my place. the system is fucked up thats what it boils down to.
    The only Bush i like is between your legs.


  4. #29
    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by urnemesis link=board=1;threadid=10934;start=msg136404#msg136 404 date=1089672948


    eating a red light breaking the law.

    huh? LOL

  5. #30
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by urnemesis link=board=1;threadid=10934;start=msg136404#msg136 404 date=1089672948
    bush clinton and jfk all used drugs or are you so gullable and belive he did not inhale. but they dont get to go to jail buit can be president .
    Invalid argument. Using drugs or possession of most drugs is NOT a felony, but a misdemeanor. You get busted for a couple joints, it's a misdemeanor. You get busted for a pound and a half, you're obviously a dealer and now a felon.

    I don't remember the president ever copping to smoking a pound and a half joint. If he did, he'd deserve a spot in the Guinness book.

    its people like you that try to make threads about race puerto rican black white all have done time or are you one of the ones that think white people dont go to jail.
    You said this whole thing was a way to get minorities in jail, not me. My comments were sarcasm for such a comment.

    My point is what the hell does going to jail have to do with voting why dont they take away the right to pay taxe's humm why voting.
    Because by being willing to commit a felony crime, you are accepting this risk. Period. It's the law. Again, nobody is forcing anyone to commit or accept the risk to commit a felony. If so, it's known as 'entrapment' and is also illegal.


    My crime was conspiricy to distibute 80lb when i asked to see it they lowerd it to 30 again i asked to see it yet agin they lowerd it to the point of 1 pound that was never produced .
    In order to prove conspiracy means you had testimony or evidence against you that you volunteered or otherwise agreed to distribute the drugs.

    Sting operations don't need the physical/tangible drugs... the expressed eagerness and decision to participate is the incriminating part. Whether or not those drugs exist or not is superfluous. If you're out there pledging to smuggle 80lbs of narcotics for a price, you're guilty.


    AS far as everyone breaking the law we all do it maybe not as bad as others but we do the resone that some dont know it is they dont know all the laws.
    Which is why crimes are divided into misdemeanors and felonies. Misdemeanor offenses do not revoke one's right to vote.


    and as far as being an xcon i am not ashamed of it i did mine half of you would have hunged yourself in my place. the system is fucked up thats what it boils down to.
    The question is, how many addicts have you turned off drugs?

    Sure you did YOUR time.. what about all the time of other's lives that could have been messed up by your selfish eagerness to participate in this cycle?

    Willingness to improve your own personal financial situation at the cost of others puts you in the felon category by my opinion and by the laws of this country.

    How many rock or 'tina addicted, controlled by dealer women have you pulled out of those situations? Or maybe this was the position you were looking to 'rise' into? Who knows. Not sticking you with things you may not be guilty of, but from the standpoint of felony punishment- this is the scenario it's designed to handle. I've flushed several years off my life getting several people OUT of those conditions where their entire lives are a series of being extorted for cash and sex to get their next fix. I'd be the first one to opt for death penalty for those busted. I think their losing the right to vote for willingness destroying other people's lives is far too humane a punishment.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  6. #31
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    <S> PC
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  7. #32
    Veteran Member Ferrari's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno link=board=1;threadid=10934;start=msg136403#msg136 403 date=1089672897
    Ferrari, you don&#039;t need to apologize. You told him it was coming!
    He was warned, wasn&#039;t he?
    Like the car, I'm exotic, erotic, and expensive....

  8. #33
    Featured Member Prester_John's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by urnemesis link=board=1;threadid=10934;start=msg136404#msg136 404 date=1089672948
    polecat who the hell said i did not know it was illegle i knew it was when i did it.
    bush clinton and jfk all used drugs or are you so gullable and belive he did not inhale. but they dont get to go to jail buit can be president .

    white has nothing to do with anything thier are plenty of white minorities out their num nuts.
    selling drugs is not a color thing the designer of the Escalade was a jap.

    As far as a normal job in this day and age all dealers have a legal side job.

    its people like you that try to make threads about race puerto rican black white all have done time or are you one of the ones that think white people dont go to jail.

    As far as liquor store or tobacco shop owners driving hot rides i have seen alot of them with fly whips.

    My point is what the hell does going to jail have to do with voting why dont they take away the right to pay taxe&#039;s humm why voting.

    My crime was conspiricy to distibute 80lb when i asked to see it they lowerd it to 30 again i asked to see it yet agin they lowerd it to the point of 1 pound that was never produced .

    Yet i went away for conspiring to sell somthing i never had fuck that and they take my right to vote not that i would use it. no mater who wins we loose.

    90% of cospierisy drug cases are won on apeal to the lost of tax payer dollers.

    its all a scam.

    And another thing why do they crack down only in election year thease basterds spend three years doing nothing but in the fourth year they fool people like you into thinking they are doing thier job gullable voters always being led by words.

    You wana by the brooklyn bridge.

    AS far as everyone breaking the law we all do it maybe not as bad as others but we do the resone that some dont know it is they dont know all the laws.

    \examples giving head against the law in some state.

    that littile black cable box some of us have breaking the law .

    eating a red light breaking the law.

    speeding breaking the law.

    while they are small breaks in the law they are physical breaking of the law.

    conspiericy is not a physical crime its verble its stupid.
    as far as imagrants voting the mayor of ny is trying to alllow none citizen voting.

    and as far as being an xcon i am not ashamed of it i did mine half of you would have hunged yourself in my place. the system is fucked up thats what it boils down to.
    Do you regret your crime, conviction and time served? Or do do merely regret the consequences of getting caught? It appears you are railing against the system for doing what the law required to do, and have no regrets for the crime you did. You did the time, but have not a shred of "rehabilitation" in your attitude about said crime. You provide a strong case for denying felons the right to vote. Simply put, you say the system is unfair and it sucks, so I shouldnt have to be penalized. Sounds like rationalization to me.

    It is an injustice if you were convicted of a crime and others who commited crimes go free. However, the injustice is NOT in your conviction, but in the failure to convict them. The Law was served in your case. Thats the way the system should work. It was not served in someone getting away with a crime, by either avoiding conviction altogether, or by getting a slap on the wrist in terms of potential pentalty.

    Someone else getting away with a crime should not now and should never be justification for someone else getting away with a crime.

  9. #34
    Veteran Member urnemesis's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    I do not regreat my timeOR crime because i did not commit a crime i needed no "rehabilitation".
    My point is i went away for somthing i did not do ive been home for five years and i am a model citezen and still i say i did not do what they say i did so fuck the system.
    The only Bush i like is between your legs.


  10. #35
    Featured Member Prester_John's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Quote Originally Posted by urnemesis link=board=1;threadid=10934;start=msg137179#msg137 179 date=1089762670
    I do not regreat my timeOR crime because i did not commit a crime i needed no "rehabilitation".
    My point is i went away for somthing i did not do ive been home for five years and i am a model citezen and still i say i did not do what they say i did so fuck the system.
    yeah, THATS a good way to get your right to vote back.

  11. #36
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Did you &#039;conspire to distribute&#039; marijuana, or coke? Was it 80 pounds you were involved in trying to distribute? Or 30, or one? Or none? Why were you arrested, if you did nothing? Of course innocent people do occasionally go to jail, and that is wrong, but I don&#039;t have enough information to say how much harm the drugs you were trying to buy, sell, or trade might have caused.

    Look, I think most drugs should be legalized, but coke can kill you if you are dumb enough to do too much--and lots of people are that fucking dumb. The fact that Bush used to do it and should probably have been in jail for that--and many other things as well--doesn&#039;t mean that trying to set yourself or your friends up as a coke dealer is harmless.

    white has nothing to do with anything thier are plenty of white minorities out their num nuts.
    selling drugs is not a color thing the designer of the Escalade was a jap.
    The "jap" (or was it a "chink"?) who designed the Escalade was not &#039;white&#039;, by any ethnic classification system I know of.

    If you are going to bitch about people criticizing you for bad grammar or spelling, you might want to pick a better derogatory term for someone you are arguing with than "num nuts".

    Be glad you are out, from what I&#039;ve seen of the inside, it is a lot more boring than scary, and it is a lot worse than posting pictures of babes in an attempt to get strippers to quit liking Jon Bon Jovi instead of talking to you more.

    You are free now, so go try hard to get your right to vote back, and quit bitching about it here--as you can see, you aren&#039;t getting a lot of sympathy from anyone about it.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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  12. #37
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Actually the issue of voting rights has his historical foundations in the principle that the "judgement" of the persons voting should be sound. For 100+ years, this principle meant that women weren&#039;t allowed to vote, based I suppose on the premise that women&#039;s minds couldn&#039;t grasp the implications of the issues and candidates they would be voting for. For 150+ years, this principle meant that other citizens weren&#039;t allowed to vote because they were illiterate, based I suppose on the premise that being illiterate meant that they couldn&#039;t read and understand the issues of the day which they would be voting on. Where voting rights of felons are concerned, IMHO the question of sound judgement still applies in the vast majority of cases.

  13. #38
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re:right to vote

    Now I&#039;m confused, but I&#039;m sure there&#039;s a simple explanation.

    The original question was, I thought, should convicts be allowed to vote? Then there&#039;s varying response, punctuated by statements like most people don&#039;t go back to jail (incorrect) and most drug convictions are overturned on appeal (also incorrect). Then there&#039;s a protest that the crime was wrongfully charged.

    Well, nobody wants innocent people to lose their vote. But the question was convicts. Are some innocent people convicted? Tragically, yes. The system is not and can never be perfect.

    But if conspiracy or sale was wrongly charged here, then I&#039;d ordinarily assume there was a trial. At a trial, one would think that the government would have to have evidence to present in order to get a conviction.

    But it doesn&#039;t sound like there was a trial here. If not, then in the case of a plea bargain, the defendant decides to plead guilty, has a hearing before a judge in which he&#039;s asked various questions like, "Do you really mean to plead guilty? Are you happy with your lawyer? Do you understand what can happen now? Did you commit the crime as charged?" before the judge accepts the plea and hammers the sentence (which is often agreed to in advance).

    If the statement is that whatever was done shouldn&#039;t be a crime, well that&#039;s good, but the laws of society determine what a crime is, not what we feel good about doing.

    So back to the original question. Should felons be allowed to vote? Almost everyone says no while they&#039;re in jail. Some say yes when they get out of jail or after some reasonable time. But I don&#039;t think there&#039;s any big protest to bring voting rights to convicts. We&#039;ve seen too many of the results and victims of the crime to get up enough sympathy for felons to make it any kind of passionate cause.

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