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Thread: New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

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    Default New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Strip clubs to fight new law
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    By Luke E. Saladin
    Post staff reporter

    The owners of seven Northern Kentucky strip clubs said they will file a lawsuit in the next week challenging a regulating ordinance adopted Tuesday by Kenton County Fiscal Court. They claim the ordinance violates their First Amendment right to free speech.
    Kenton County was the first Northern Kentucky government to adopt the new ordinance, which imposes regulations on all types of sexually oriented business, including strip clubs, escort services and adult bookstores.

    Jeffrey Willis, CEO of the La Fox Group, which owns Rodney's La Fox and Viva La Fox in Covington, said Cincinnati lawyer H. Louis Sirkin would file the suit by Fridayon behalf of club owners.

    Other clubs participating in the suit, Willis said, are Club Venus and The Pad in Covington; The Brass Bull and The Brass Mule in Newport; and The Playpen Gentleman's Club in Wilder.

    Willis said he and the other owners are in favor of regulation, but that Kenton County's ordinance simply goes too far and hinders the ability of club owners and entertainers to make a living and operate. He disputed government officials' assertion that the clubs are breaking the law.

    "We're already under one of the most stringent ordinances in Covington and now they are trying to say that our performers can't even talk to anyone," Willis said, referring to a provision in the Kenton County measure that prohibits dancers who perform on stage from setting foot in areas of the club open to customers.

    "When did these people get the right to tell somebody who they could and couldn't talk to?" Willis said. "They have no right to do that."

    The leading proponent of the new ordinance, Kenton County Attorney Garry Edmondson, said he anticipated that adult business owners would challenge it.

    "If they didn't put up a fight, I would have worried that we didn't make the ordinance strong enough," Edmondson said. "The ordinance passes all constitutional muster and uses tested case law from around the country. We're ready for the fight."

    Willis said the lawsuit would argue that Fiscal Court made several procedural errors when adopting the ordinances. He said specifics would be laid out in the lawsuit.

    Sirkin, who has made a name for himself representing adult business owners like Larry Flynt, could not be rea-

    ched for comment Friday.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that that, while communities must allow for adult business, they are permitted to regulate them. What designates a "community," though, has always remained ambiguous.

    Kenton and Campbell counties are trying to unify their sexually oriented business ordinances so that they can make a case that the two counties operate as one community.

    If they can get the courts to buy that argument, they think that would relieve most of the 37 cities in the two counties from the requirement to each create a zone for adult businesses.

    A study by Duncan Associates, an Austin, Texas-based consulting firm hired by the counties and cities, was used in drafting the ordinance. The second portion of the study will determine which areas in the region should be zoned for sexually oriented business.

    Proponents of the ordinance unapologetically admit they hope the ordinance will deter new adult businesses from opening in the two counties and encourage those already there to close.

    That tells clubs that they are unfairly being singled out, said Brian LeGory, co-owner of Club Venus in Covington.

    He says too often people take the word of politicians who claim the clubs are havens for drugs and prostitution.

    "I admit I am not running a church, but it is not a house of prostitution either," LeGory said. "I support regulations because they make my job easier, but these are politically motivated and they make no sense."

    Club owners say studies reflect an agenda on the part of local authorities and are set up to intentionally skew the facts, lumping the clubs and the dancers with escorts and drug dealers that work on the streets.

    Dancers in Covington must have no felony record and pay a $155 a year licensing fee to work in the clubs.

    Dancers with any prostitution or drug convictions under Covington's ordinance are barred from employment in the clubs. Kenton County's new ordinance includes the same language.

    Darlene Gram who said she has worked as a bartender at Viva La Fox for the past three years, said the new Kenton County law will make it harder for entertainers to get by.

    "A lot of the girls that come in here don't have a lot of money to begin with. That doesn't make them prostitutes," she said.

    "It's hard enough to pay the licensing fees," she added. "I agree we need regulations, but once a girl is convicted of prostitution, she is not allowed to work at the clubs again. Nobody who works here has ever been convicted of anything, so why are additional regulations needed? If there is a problem, just take their licenses away."

    Edmondson said if the threatened lawsuit includes Campbell County clubs, it would be thrown out because Campbell County hasn't approved its adult business zone ordinance yet.

    "I don't think they've looked very hard at the legal issues here, which doesn't surprise me," Edmondson said. "We invited representatives from all the clubs as well as their legal counsel to participate in the drafting of the ordinance, but we never heard a peep from them. We had a first reading of the ordinance and they said nothing."

    Club owners said they chose to keep a low profile until it became clear in which direction the Kenton ordinance was going. Now that it's official, owners say they are gearing up for a full-scale fight.

    "The bottom line is that we are going to make this a very public case," Willis said.

    "We want the people of Kenton County to know exactly how much was spent on this worthless piece of paper."




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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    KY is only 45 minutes away but I never go there

    FBR
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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Newport is tame these days. I remember when the club in Newport was the Brass ASS (I was there once in the early 1980s). By todays standards THAT was tame.

    Newport used to be a wide open city replete with gambling establishment until they got stupid and drugged a prosecutor in the early/mid 1950s or so. Successive waves of gentrification have made it a yuppy hangout.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Monty I havent been to Newport in years. I was in Covington maybe 3 yrs ago. My buddy and I hit this club on Main Street that had a sign out front "Kentuckys Best Women". They lied LOL

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    This is bad but not a disaster.

    Dancers could have a few 3 x 5 cards with the usual chit-chat written out on them ahead of time, i.e. "Hi - want a lap dance?" or "Hello, my name is Chastity, what's your name?" and so forth. Or they could have a little blackboard with chalk which they can have written conversations with their clients with so all is not lost.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    There must be a lot of rednecks there. IMO they should let the dancers chit chat all they want and pass the law that at home wives aren't allowed to speak. LOL.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    IMO they should let the dancers chit chat all they want and pass the law that at home wives aren't allowed to speak. LOL.
    That law could catch on nationwide.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    LOL...well, they're only in trouble as soon as they pass a law that dancers can no longer communicate using body language.

    They'll probably get the law turned over...you cannot tell anyone who they can or can not talk to. I'm surprised it was even passed just based on the fact that it is in direct contradiction to the Constitution.

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    Senior Member brandys's Avatar
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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Well , this really scares to shit out of me.........
    I live in louisville , and we are fighting regulations down here too. If they can pass it there , why couldn't they do it here , you know ?
    And the felony thing really sucks. I know so many girls who would lose there jobs , myself included. That was why i started dancing in the first place , it made it so hard to get a 'regular '' job. All over some stupid stuff I did as a child.
    well please , keep us posted............

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Well I find this to be most unusual.I don't see how they can pass this law,or even enforce it.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    How the hell can a law like this be passed in AMERICA???? How dare the governmet try to intrude to the point of being able to tell dancers when they can and cannot talk!!! This is crazy and very unsettling....

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Which is most likely why it will be turned over. If not by a higher court in KY, then definitely by the Supreme Court.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=27;threadid=12476;start=msg161577#msg16 1577 date=1093274335
    IMO they should let the dancers chit chat all they want and pass the law that at home wives aren't allowed to speak. LOL.
    That law could catch on nationwide.

    wouldn't that be great. That or wives are only permitted to speak provided they dress like strippers at home and allow a go go pole in the bedroom.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pazzo link=board=27;threadid=12476;start=msg161702#msg16 1702 date=1093283224
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=27;threadid=12476;start=msg161577#msg16 1577 date=1093274335
    IMO they should let the dancers chit chat all they want and pass the law that at home wives aren't allowed to speak. LOL.
    That law could catch on nationwide.

    wouldn't that be great. That or wives are only permitted to speak provided they dress like strippers at home and allow a go go pole in the bedroom.
    LMAO!!!
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest link=board=27;threadid=12476;start=msg161706#msg16 1706 date=1093283448
    Quote Originally Posted by Pazzo link=board=27;threadid=12476;start=msg161702#msg16 1702 date=1093283224
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer link=board=27;threadid=12476;start=msg161577#msg16 1577 date=1093274335
    IMO they should let the dancers chit chat all they want and pass the law that at home wives aren't allowed to speak. LOL.
    That law could catch on nationwide.

    wouldn't that be great. That or wives are only permitted to speak provided they dress like strippers at home and allow a go go pole in the bedroom.
    LMAO!!!
    One day Ill be president and this will be a great country again.

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.



    Too funny!!

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    They'll probably get the law turned over...you cannot tell anyone who they can or can not talk to. I'm surprised it was even passed just based on the fact that it is in direct contradiction to the Constitution
    Yes, I would be very interested in seeing the exact wording of this ordinance. The constitution does protect free speech, but it does also leave wiggle room for restricting free speech under certain circumstances i.e. yelling fire in a crowded theatre. But even in my most paranoid dreams I can't think of any legal basis for prohibiting dancers from speaking with club customers !

    The next key factor of course is whether or not the clubowner's consortium can find a KY superior court judge who will grant a stay of the ordinance while the appeal is in progress, or whether the clubs will be forced to follow the ordinance until it is officially overturned. The game being played here, of course, is that the clubowner's consortium is potentially facing tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to appeal the case in KY, and potentially facing 100 grand plus to take the case to federal court. If the numbers crunch out to show that they can never hope to recoup this money even if their appeal is successful, they may opt to close up shop rather than "throwing good money after bad".

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    So basically what the club owners should do is not let the girls dance on stage anymore. I know it sounds wierd but it is a loop hole. I'm sure one that will be addressed as soon as they figure that out.

    If they are saying girls who dance on stage can't talk or have any more contact with the customers than that, then just get rid of the stage dancing.

    Anyone else think that will work? Even for a little while?

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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    This is just more typicall election-year bullshit.

    Whether or not these idiots making these ordinances know it, this type of ordinance just encourages what they&#039;re supposedly trying to stop (prostitution) by just pushing it underground. But since the clubs are theoretically more visible than escort agencies and the like, they&#039;re obviously an easier target.

    Those clubs are private property, and I don&#039;t believe the government is within its rights to make this ordinance. I would say this is a fairly clear-cut First Amendment violation, but I guess we&#039;ll see what happens.
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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Here ya go Pan Dah and Melonie, see page 25, #10 ....

    "Ensure that an entertainer does not enter the portions of the sexually oriented
    business occupied by customers on the day of any performance by that performer
    and that the entertainer remain on the stage during their performance."

    KY Ordinance:
    http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...2004-17-04.pdf
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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    OK this ordinance is nasty ...

    A. it requires that all dancers obtain licenses, which can be denied for conviction of any dancing ordinance or sexually related misdemeanor charge for the last 10 years (in any jurisdiction not just northern KY).

    B. it bans total nudity (spread legs anyhow)

    C. it bans direct exchange of money between customers and dancers

    D. it ostensibly bans girls from dancing on stage and also interacting with customers on the same day

    E. it creates an affirmative responsibility for the club such that a dancer being busted can result in the club losing its license and being forced to close.

    F. it establishes the burden of proof as merely being "a preponderance of the evidence" by the License Inspector - which effectively allows the License Inspector to suspend licenses and put the club and dancers out of business based on circumstantial evidence or police accusations without anyone having to prove the clubowner or dancers guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" in a court of law.

    While some provisions of this ordinance like the no dancing and interacting with customers on the same day appear to be fair game for "excessive restraint" of communication appeals, many of the ordinance&#039;s provisions do have precedent in ordinances of other cities which have already successfully withstood appeals. This one is going to be nasty - especially if no judge will grant a stay during the appeals process.


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    Default Re:New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Wow, Melonie! That ordinance IS harsh!!

    Thank god I&#039;m not dancing in KY!!

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    Default Re: New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    THIS IS UPDATED 2-22-08 SCARY FOLKS!!

    http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.d...0323/1009/EDIT

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    Default Re: New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pan Dah View Post
    The title of the thread has side-tracked us a bit here. The proposed ban is not exactly on talking to customers (according to the article), it seems to be more about keeping stage entertainers from mingling with customers after the show. I'm sure they'll come up with some BS about deterring prostitution and public indecency.

    If that's the approach they're taking, I'm not quite as sanguine as some of you about this being overturned as a free speech issue.
    Thanks for quoting that Pandah, so this is EASY to get around!

    Just have NO more stage shows and let the girls walk around a talk to all the guys and do a little tease dance in front of them, THEN go do the real dances in the back, no harm no foul right?
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    Default Re: New KY law prohibits strippers to talk with customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by castiglione View Post
    This is bad but not a disaster.

    Dancers could have a few 3 x 5 cards with the usual chit-chat written out on them ahead of time, i.e. "Hi - want a lap dance?" or "Hello, my name is Chastity, what's your name?" and so forth. Or they could have a little blackboard with chalk which they can have written conversations with their clients with so all is not lost.
    That is the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard of.


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