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Thread: Guys a little help here please?!

  1. #1
    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Guys a little help here please?!

    Ok, Here's the deal. I have a friend at work (no names) who is going through a shit storm right now. She has a major stalker who the police say they can't do anything about. (he hasen't hurt her yet) She's about to loose her apt. cause she isn't making the money she used to (this time of year it blows around here), and she's the type of girl that dancing is her lifestyle, not just a job.

    With that all said, she asked me my opinion Sat. night if she should give up temp. custody of her son to her sister, till this stuff gets straightened out.

    Her sister is married, has 2 kids of her own, and she's a devoted, sweet person who loves kids.

    She isn't wanting to give up her son so she can party more or do drugs or anything like that. I really feel that she understands that she just isn't in the postition to take care of him like she should right now. That's what's spurring this decision to do this.

    So now, what would you guys tell her? I told her I would think about it a little and tell her tommorrow what I felt.

    I think if she is doing it for the best of her child; then maybe she should, at least until she gets her shit straight.

    The way I see it is that she is putting her selfishness and her own feelings aside for the sake, welfare, and well being of her child.

    I was just looking for a little input on what you guys might think. Or maybe a side of it that I haven't been able to see.

    Thanks guys & gals!

    Kitana

    Oh, BTW I told her also no matter what I am still her friend and I will support her no matter what she chooses. I can say I mean that too.

    K.
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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    How old is the child, and what happened to his father? IMO, both will make a big difference re the psychological effect this will have on him.
    "That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
    - Luke
    "Some men, you just can't reach...."
    - Boss, re Luke

    If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
    it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
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    Senior Member brandys's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    If she is doing it for her son&#039;s sake she is making the right desision. But tell her to think about what her son is going to think about it years from now. It might harm there realtionship to much to be worth it . Every parent goes thru tough times , tell her if she is really worried about her kid , then SHE needs to take care of her probs.
    not trying to sound like a bitch ,, it&#039;s just my opionion........

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Brandys - my point exactly. If he&#039;s still fairly young and has already had to deal with all the feelings kids go through when they&#039;re minus a parent, this could wind up being the final "abandonment" straw for him - &#039;cause no matter what you tell them, sometimes kids get an erroneous read from something that no amount of explaining will ever change.
    "That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
    - Luke
    "Some men, you just can't reach...."
    - Boss, re Luke

    If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
    it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
    -Cowboy Junkies

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    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Ok well a little more info, he is around 3 yrs old I think and I don&#039;t know anything about his dad at all. I understand what you guys are saying and I thank you for your opnions.

    Brandys, that&#039;s why she is doing this (maybe) so she can get her shit straight. And he will see her regularly, since he would be with his Aunt.

    Kitana
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExoticEngineer View Post
    Feel like a damn salt lick at the goats petting zoo!
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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    She isn&#039;t wanting to give up her son so she can party more or do drugs or anything like that. I really feel that she understands that she just isn&#039;t in the postition to take care of him like she should right now. That&#039;s what&#039;s spurring this decision to do this.

    Not meaning to muddy the waters, but she should seriously consider the impact that &#039;voluntary relinquishment of child custody&#039; has of the Family Courts. Once a mother has given up custody of her child, whatever the extenuating circumstances, the Family Courts take an extremely dim view of the mother&#039;s situation if and when she attempts to regain custody in the future. This will be particularly bad should the child&#039;s father decides to interject himself into the fray after being informed of the temporary custody change - at which point the child&#039;s father could potentially seek permanent custody of the child himself, or seek to have the child made a &#039;ward of the state&#039; based on the fact that the child&#039;s mother is a stripper who is seeking voluntary relinquishment of custody (which would also remove the father&#039;s child support obligations). It will be a hard sell to convince the court that the stripper stereotype doesn&#039;t apply in this girl&#039;s case, particularly if the child&#039;s father&#039;s attorney can point to examples of the mother&#039;s &#039;stripper lifestyle&#039;. Making the assumption that the mother will actually be able to transfer temporary custody of the child to her sister without opposition from the child&#039;s father or the Family Courts is NOT a safe bet.

    It&#039;s sad and ironic that the law gives a stalker the benefit of the doubt, but usually does not give the same benefit of the doubt to mothers who happen to work as strippers !

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    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Mel I understand that completely, but I think all she is going to do is let her son live with her sister. I don&#039;t think they are going through any legal channels at all. More like an extended visit kind of thing.

    Kitana
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExoticEngineer View Post
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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Here is what I would tell one of my friends -

    I understand how exhausted and frightened you feel, and I will do what I can to help out (such as babysitting if we workied different shifts and having a buddy system or letting her be a temporary roomate) - but PULL UP YOUR HUGGIES! There are people down the road who make it by with more children flipping burgers. Get government assistance....get another job....do something. You give up your child once, and you&#039;re setting the groundwork for a lot of problems later. (See Mel&#039;s comments above). You are not going to give up on your child...that&#039;s your number 1 job...and you do what you have to do.

    Then I&#039;d make her dinner....and go over a little financial planning.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
    -Humphrey Bogart

    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Why couldn&#039;t she stay with her siser for a while, until she gets back on her feet? Seems to me if the sister would be willng to take care of the child she&#039;d also be willing to have the child&#039;s mother stay to help out with that. I think that would be better for the child also - at least he wouldn&#039;t have to deal with being left by his mother, even if it&#039;s with family and there are regular visits. Little kids don&#039;t understand anything about a situation like that but that mommy is leaving them. She also would likely be safer from this stalker if she&#039;s staying with family.

    I&#039;d tell her to stay with sis (or whatever other family) WITH the child, work a full schedule and budget herself to get into a new place asap. I think that leaving the child with someone else is just an easy way out and not the responsible thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Senior Member Natascha's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    I think Melonie is right. Its too risky.
    I have personally known 2 dancers who went through living hell on top of 10s of thousands of dollars as they struggled to maintain custody rights in the face of an anti-stripper courtroom.
    These were girls who kept their children in the best daycares and provided them with medical and dental insurance. They worked sober dayshifts, owned their own homes, etc. etc. And they were struggling against fathers who were deadbeat losers.

    The courts will be biased enough against a stripper and adding a voluntary relinquishment of custody to the equation, whether it be legally domumented or not, could cause major problems.
    The courts usually favor the mother, that is common knowledge. But what they are more and more concerned with is consistency and stability. Does the child have a daily routine that is adhered to, does it have a set bedtime, does it lay down every night in the same bed, does it have a safe home etc. Stripping is understood to be a temporary job, so the courts will see the child&#039;s situation as potentially volatile. I don&#039;t think its a simple case of conservative, anti-sex policies (though I am sure that is a partial factor).

    Anyway, if on a whim the child&#039;s father decides to challenge her role as primary custodian of the child, she should really try to have everything in order. Getting evicted is very bad in the eyes of the court, as well.
    It sounds like she should live with her sister and her child to avoid homelessness while continuing to care for her child. The fact that she hasn&#039;t mentioned this as an option makes me think there is more to this story.
    I hope things work out for her, though.

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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    What B said.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
    -Humphrey Bogart

    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Well, every kid&#039;s different, and I suppose there are situations where it&#039;s so bad this kind of thing would be for the best, but I had a 3 1/2 yr. old when divorce occurred, and the effects were horrendous. Can&#039;t even imagine what it&#039;d have done to him if his mother had then had to do this!

    She really ought to try anything and everything else possible before resorting to this - could easily wind up doing the kind of damage you just can&#039;t ever really fix completely.
    "That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
    - Luke
    "Some men, you just can't reach...."
    - Boss, re Luke

    If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
    it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
    -Cowboy Junkies

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    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    See?! This is why I come here. I never even thought of that as an option to mention to her B, I love you guys so much! I will tell her that tonight. Maybe you are right Nat, there might be more than what she told me, but I just know what she said. If me and D/H had any more room, I would ask them to stay with us for a little while. But we might be getting my daughter back full time soon.

    I too lost custody of my child because of my job dancing, never mind he only made $4.75/hr and isn&#039;t even working now or hasen&#039;t in the past 2 yrs.

    "Your a stripper, so you must be a drunk, unstable, money hungry whore." "You have no right to raise you child."

    That&#039;s what I was told by the court. I told them then I would quit, but by then it didn&#039;t matter. Judges suck!

    Kitana
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExoticEngineer View Post
    Feel like a damn salt lick at the goats petting zoo!
    <08SM>

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    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Just some information here. I know alot of dancers who are held almost hostage by loser worthless boyfriends who keep them trapped by threatening to have thier kid/kids taken away. It&#039;s become gang-banger common knowledge (thanks to rap lyrics by 2short and others) that your meal ticket is to knock up a stripper. When the loser wants something (money pussy crib)he will play the custody card and dancers KNOW they will probably lose in court so .....they cave. Sad but true in many cases.


    DISCLAIMER: Not all dancers automatically lose custody and MOST dancers who post here at stripperweb would NOT Lose. Unfortunately the dancers represented here do not represent the norm.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it&#039;s been"

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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    ^^^ Uuugggghhhhh.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Okay, here&#039;s the thing. A three year old is still in the basic stages of forming their identity. At that age they define themselves by the things around them. Ask a three year old who he is and he&#039;ll tell you about his family, his pets, his house, etc. When you remove a three year old from those things you remove him from himself. His identity development is stunted, and he may have issues maintaining a consistant identity later in life.

    Now, if he already spends a lot of time at the aunts house (such that that environment/those people are a part of his identity) then no problem.

    It&#039;s been my experience that when a parent has trouble taking care of a child this young, that tends to be a pattern throughout the childs life. So, if the aunt is willing to take him now, that may be the best option.

    Lena



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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Mel I understand that completely, but I think all she is going to do is let her son live with her sister. I don&#039;t think they are going through any legal channels at all. More like an extended visit kind of thing.
    Kit, this approach really depends on just how much of an asshole the child&#039;s father is. Even if there are no official documents reflecting a temporary change of custody, if the child is left to live more or less full time with an aunt while the mother is living somewhere else the child&#039;s father would have sufficient grounds to raise the issue of custody in family court. Even if the child and mother are together and living with the mother&#039;s sister, there would still be some grounds to bring a custody case based on irresponsibility or overcrowding, or to bring an amended child support case based on visitation conditions. If the mother and her child are not living on their own in a "suitable environment", it can really open Pandora&#039;s box as far as Family Court goes.

    I don&#039;t mean to be cruel by asking, but even if a dancer is only able to earn $100 a night on the average there should be no reason why she should be in financial difficulties with a landlord. I have to admit that, like Natascha posted, there seems to be more to this story ...


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    God/dess NinaDaisy's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie link=board=1;threadid=12880;start=msg167133#msg167 133 date=1093902091
    Mel I understand that completely, but I think all she is going to do is let her son live with her sister. I don&#039;t think they are going through any legal channels at all. More like an extended visit kind of thing.
    Kit, this approach really depends on just how much of an asshole the child&#039;s father is. Even if there are no official documents reflecting a temporary change of custody, if the child is left to live more or less full time with an aunt while the mother is living somewhere else the child&#039;s father would have sufficient grounds to raise the issue of custody in family court. Even if the child and mother are together and living with the mother&#039;s sister, there would still be some grounds to bring a custody case based on irresponsibility or overcrowding, or to bring an amended child support case based on visitation conditions. If the mother and her child are not living on their own in a "suitable environment", it can really open Pandora&#039;s box as far as Family Court goes.

    I don&#039;t mean to be cruel by asking, but even if a dancer is only able to earn $100 a night on the average there should be no reason why she should be in financial difficulties with a landlord. I have to admit that, like Natascha posted, there seems to be more to this story ...

    I agree Mel. You mentioned that dancing for your friend is also a "lifestyle"? What exactly does that mean? To many it includes drugs and partying, but you say your friend isn&#039;t into that.

    Like Melonie said, even if she&#039;s making just $100 a shift, there are adjustments that she can make in her budget, even if she has "bills". Kids are expensive too. I don&#039;t want to sound cruel here, but it seems like she&#039;s willing to cut the expense of having a kid but not willing to give up her "lifestyle".

    I know of another dancer I used to work with who gave up custody of her kid to her parents "temporarily". That was almost TWO years ago, and she moved across the country. We still have a few mutual friends.

    Again, there&#039;s something more to this story that your friend might not be telling you.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Quote Originally Posted by NinaDaisy link=board=1;threadid=12880;start=msg167156#msg167 156 date=1093904656
    Like Melonie said, even if she&#039;s making just $100 a shift, there are adjustments that she can make in her budget, even if she has "bills". Kids are expensive too. I don&#039;t want to sound cruel here, but it seems like she&#039;s willing to cut the expense of having a kid but not willing to give up her "lifestyle".
    and
    Again, there&#039;s something more to this story that your friend might not be telling you.
    Thanks Nina.. I was about to post just about the same thing, but you nailed it better than I ever could.

    I&#039;m sorry, but I know single mom&#039;s with two or more children out here in one of THE most expensive cost of living in the country, yet able to do so with Walmart/Walgreens cashier salary.

    There is definately someplace her money is going even at the absolute WORST club imaginable. She&#039;s either got a significant amount of debt from frivolous spending, unmentioned places her money is going, or just an unwise spender. In all cases, losing a child to someone else is not a valid option and all avenues of keeping this child in her presence and possession need to be explored. These things DO have impact on young children and it&#039;s unfair if it&#039;s a &#039;quality of life&#039; situation being chosen over a child.

    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena link=board=1;threadid=12880;start=msg167055#msg167 055 date=1093894845
    Okay, here&#039;s the thing. A three year old is still in the basic stages of forming their identity. At that age they define themselves by the things around them. Ask a three year old who he is and he&#039;ll tell you about his family, his pets, his house, etc. When you remove a three year old from those things you remove him from himself. His identity development is stunted, and he may have issues maintaining a consistant identity later in life.
    Thank you Lena - this is what I was trying to get at but couldn&#039;t figure out how to properly explain. I&#039;ve seen this firsthand and the effect on the child is profound - it can alter the trajectory of their entire life because it fundamentally affects their self-image and their view of everything around them. It&#039;s just too much for them at that age, and if there&#039;s any possible way to avoid doing this to him she should.
    "That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
    - Luke
    "Some men, you just can't reach...."
    - Boss, re Luke

    If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
    it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
    -Cowboy Junkies

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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    update?
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
    -Humphrey Bogart

    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

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    Member python fan's Avatar
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    Default Re:Guys a little help here please?!

    I agree with Melonie. Don&#039;t have her give up the child -- even temporary. This opens the door for the Father to pursue permanent custody. This can be very messy and harm the child. I would have her get a part-time job to make ends meet or until business picks up. Also talk over your situation with your landlord. If they&#039;re understandable usually you can work out a payment schedule. I know this has work with some people I know. Landlords know a little money is better than no money.
    "Rejoice O young man in thy youth."

    - Ecclesiastes

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