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Thread: Who is responsible ???

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    God/dess GoldCoastGirl's Avatar
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    Default Who is responsible ???

    ??? ??? ???


    I'm about to describe a situation.. I would really like some feedback..

    My flatmate holds once a week DnD (Dungeons and Dragons - RPG) sessions at my place (it is my place as it is in my name) in the sunroom (it is a room that used to be the balcony - the owners enclosed it with windows so now it is called a sunroom).

    Due to being the Dungeon Master (the one who is 'in control' of the game)... he has alot of the rule and such books. None of them are his.. they belong to some of his fellow gamers.

    Now.. he usually leaves them strewn throughout various parts of the house.. in his room.. in the living room.. or in the sunroom. This particular time they were left in the sunroom.

    It was raining one night and I had accidentially left the windows to the sunroom open due to wanting the air to come thru the unit (without those windows open.. things can get stuffy and smelling in the unit). Now.. they weren't WIDE open.. I never leave them wide open.. just open enough for the rain to come in and wet those books.

    Those books which HE had left in the sunroom.

    Now.. my question is.. does the responsibility of replacing those books (as they are ruined) lie with him because his friends had left those books in HIS care (due to him using them.. I don't touch them.. I don't have anything to do with his RPG sessions) or with me due to leaving the windows in the sunroom open hence having the rain ruin them ???

    I feel I am not the one responsible here.. I feel he is.. as his friends have left the books here under his care (due to him 'being in charge' of the games).. therefore he is the one who is to take responsiblity if anything happens to those books.. not me.

    If I am in the wrong with this opinion.. tell me.. I am open to that.. he's told me that I owe him $$$ to replace those ruined books.. I havn't said anything back due to wanting to make sure I am "in the right" as such... ????


    Am I in the right.. or is he.. or is the fault with the both of us ???


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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Well,I think he was careless in the placement of his books,but at the same time,if you saw the books lying there,you should have perhaps moved them in case.
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Allow me to be extremely clear and blunt. If something is important to me, it is my responsibility to put it somewhere safe. Period. It is not your job to keep track of those things for him. It's nice if you think about it, but if not, then tough shit. As a former D&D freak, he shames me for being so careless and for being ignorant in his lack of integrity.

    If you offered to spot him a few bucks, that would be very nice, although not necessary. This is his responsibility and the scare of the cost is what is fueling his assinine behavior.

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    Member Sophie Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    I completely agree with Mojo

    People are often quick to point the finger if they believe consciously they did nothing wrong while the event occured...which is of course ridiculous, that would mean that mistakes and accidents would never occur

    You are not responsible, not for the books nor his self-serving bias.

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    I agree with everyone here, GCG. It is in NO way shape, or form your responsibility. If something holds a great value to a person, they should take the steps necessary to protect it.

    The responsibility lies fully with him.

    **Hugs**

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    *phew*

    Thank you everyone. I've spoken about this with quite a few people just to make VERY sure that I am not really to blame here.

    I'll spot him $50 as he said it would cost him near $300 to replace all the books... just to keep the peace as he is otherwise a really decent flatmate.

    Do you think his fellow gamers will think the same ??? I'm assuming due to the response everyone has given me (which is basically that it is his fault regardless if I had been careless and left the windows open during a rain storm)... that they will.

    Thank you again everyone.. man I love SW


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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    The cost of the books does not shift the fact that he was careless. If they're that important, then keep them in a safe place. Duh.
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???


    Hmm... I don't necessarily agree with everyone else. This is my reasoning:

    If he (for example) left a book in the bathroom and you decided to do something that made the bathroom wet, it would be your responsibility to move the book, or replace it if you didn't.

    If he left a book on the floor next to the litterbox and your cat pissed on it, that's his fault (ie, common sense).

    This seems to lie somewhere in between. I guess the key issue is how often do you open the windows? If the sunroom area often gets wet, then it's his responsibility, totally. But, if the sunroom is generally a safe place to leave stuff and just this one time you opened the window and everything got wet, then the responsibility would lay more with you.

    Lena



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    Member Sophie Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Quote Originally Posted by GoldCoastGirl link=board=1;threadid=13322;start=msg174278#msg174 278 date=1095040819

    Do you think his fellow gamers will think the same ??? I'm assuming due to the response everyone has given me (which is basically that it is his fault regardless if I had been careless and left the windows open during a rain storm)... that they will.
    Not necessarily, considering since he believes it is your fault he will more than likely leave out any incriminating details on his part, relying solely on convenient external attributes which would make him appear to be the victim, when explaining to his D&D friends.

    Also, since and/or they don't know you personally, or at least as well as they know him, it is easier to place the blame with you.

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    In response to Lena and the sunroom

    The sunroom windows are generally left open all the time unless it rains.. in which case most of them are shut by whoever is home... I had opened the windows prior to the rain becoming heavy and entering the sunroom... and basically wasn't home to close those windows.

    In my opinion, he knows that the sunroom is the one part of this whole unit that can suffer 'damage' (as such.. rain coming thru the fly screen windows) during a storm... so, in my opinion, leaving the books in there is a risk he took ultimately.



    In response to Sophie Rose

    His D&D buddies may not know me as well as him however they do know me... one of them I can lay claim as a mutual friend now. None-the-less, I do get what you are saying. Tho' if he does incriminate me to his D&D gamers/buddies whilst I am within ear shot... I will defent myself and inform them of the facts that he left out.

    Once they realise he has manipulated the story.. they won't keep the blame to me as they are older (25 years of age and older)....



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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    does your relationship with your flatmate have enough hit points to survive this round?

    I say toss him a few bucks for the books.Set a house rule to keep the books in a safe place next time.And when it rains,close the window.

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Yeah he's definitely the one responsible for the books. If he wants to ensure they don't get ruined he should keep them in a safe place rather than tossed about where ever they were last used. If you noticed the books lying in the sunroom when you opened the windows, it would've been good to move them, but it's still not your responsibility. It sounds like this guy has a bit of growing up to do, learning about what is responsibility.

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    First of all, any adult male still playing Dungeons & Dragons needs to seriously get a life. I mean, jeez, I outgrew that in 10th grade. Now, that aside, I think Lena is closest to the truth here. I don't think it's completely your fault per se, rather it is about 75% your fault and 25% his. The point that it becomes your fault is:

    1. When you recognized that his books were there and did nothing to protect them. The fact that they are left around your home regularly and irresponsably is irrelevant in this matter. The fact is, they were there, and all emotional frustration you may have with them being there has nothing to do with this matter. It probably taught him a lesson but it isn't his total fault that they were damaged.

    2. Although he assumes some risk of leaving the books in an area where it can be damaged more than other places in the home, he has to assume when they are put there that they will be safe if the windows are closed when he puts the books down. There is a higher element of risk leaving them in there, but still if he puts them down and the windows are closed, he has to logically assume they are safe there at that moment and will remain so unless an act of god happens.

    3. You were negligent in taking proper care of the environment by opening the windows. Ask yourself this, if you opened the windows and you had some of your own books there instead of his, would you have moved them? Probably so, even though it wasn't raining at that moment, there was a possibility that it could have, so you would have taken due dilligence in protecting your own property. You owe him the same right. The fact is, rain or no rain, the books would not have been damaged in any way if it had not been for you opening the windows. That's what legal negligence is all about. In other words, would this same event have taken place if you did not open those windows. The answer is no. For example, if I hose down my driveway and it freezes overnight, I would be legally responsible to pay for the medical bills if the FedEx driver slipped and hurt himself on the iced driveway. Why? Because if I had not waterd down the driveway, there would have been nothing there to freeze and it wouldn't have been a higher risk of causing injury. To take that to the next level, many lawsuits have won because it would snow overnight and freeze on a sidewalk which caused someone to get hurt. Why? Because even though I personally did nothing to cause the risk, I still am aware of potential risk and am hense responsible for making sure the area of my property is safe, even to strangers or even unwanted strangers. There was very little risk here for him to put his books down with the windows closed. When you opened the windows though, rain or not, you caused the risk to happen and should have taken measures to make sure the room was a safe environment to the contents inside. By actually acknowledging you saw the books there, it puts you in greater responsibility in fact. Again, if you had your own property there that was important to you, would you have moved it?

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    It's tough to make a determination who was at fault without all the details, but in the worst possible case, your flatmate at least shares half the responsibility, and all the responsibility otherwise.

    If he considered the sunroom a safe place to keep them with no knowledge of you opening the windows, then it's shared responsibility. If there was any chance his leaving them there was under some sort of understanding that the sunroom was a safe place, then you came along and opened or left open the windows during a good rain... then you would need to claim at least partial responsibility.

    But if those windows are always open for ventilation.. and he knows this, then it's 100% his responsibility as he knew the risks of water/weather damage of leaving books in an area exposed to the elements.
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Books belong on a bookshelf. (when they're not in use of course.)


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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    You are 100% responsible for allowing a D&D player such close proximity to a beautiful woman. If they think they might actually be able to talk to a chick, that just enables them to keep playing

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=1;threadid=13322;start=msg174695#msg174 695 date=1095107563
    You are 100% responsible for allowing a D&D player such close proximity to a beautiful woman. If they think they might actually be able to talk to a chick, that just enables them to keep playing
    Katrine... that's hilarious... then I'm definately guilty as not only am I friends with him (he's been my flatmate for near on 3 years)... I also came friends with one of his friends who also plays D&D (Tuesday night session)... LOL!!

    Oh yeah.. never will have to worry about my flatmate hitting on me.. he learnt a long time ago he has no chance with me as he so is NOT my type. He's a great mate.. that's all he'll ever be.. he's happy with that.


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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    polecat - the windows are left open and ONLY closed during rain/storm or other similiar weather... and then re-opened once the rain/storm has passed.

    Everyone else.. I'm going to throw him a few bucks as whilst I am not totally at fault... nor is he in the end. We are both at fault as there are things we both could've done to avoid this whole mess... so I won't pay for the books totally.. just give him something.

    At least now he knows that whatever is kept in the sunroom isn't totally "safe" (it never was to begin with .. just that it is a lesson he had to learn the hard way).



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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine link=board=1;threadid=13322;start=msg174695#msg174 695 date=1095107563
    You are 100% responsible for allowing a D&D player such close proximity to a beautiful woman. If they think they might actually be able to talk to a chick, that just enables them to keep playing
    Good God, isn't that the truth! When I first got out of college, I got a job as Art Director for a game company that made similar games. I was more into the historical/military games than the fantasy/elf/hobbit shit, but almost all the damned gamers from both genres were geeks and nerds of the worst variety. As part of my job I got to go to gaming conventions, which were comedic at times.

    I wound up hanging out with two Canadian women who were sent to the conventions as a scam by the husband of one of them (who was having an affair with the other, the lying sack of shit, lol). These were very good-looking and flirtatious women who were immediately granted unlimited credit by the owners of the various game companies--who were as geeky and nerdy as any of them, and as helpless around female pulchitrude as that sort generally is.

    Their husband never paid any of the game companies, so made a killing in Canada. As it turns out, though my motives were honorable, I wound up having an affair with the wife (who had found out about her husband's innumerable indiscretions). My boss, who in spite of being married himself, was completely smitten by the Canadian wife (and fleeced by the husband as a result), went into a rage when he found out about my affair and fired me.

    This story is actually very involved and quite funny, with multiple demonstrations of the Laws of Karma in action; but too much to go into here, not to mention being off-topic. The woman and I have remained friends, and she still plays the D & D, so I hear.

    BTW, I think you did the right thing to toss him a few bucks for the books, even though it was really his fault.
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    It's a matter of culpability, and assigning a percentage of the reasonable responsibility to each party. For the most part it was his fault, if not entirely. If, however, based on past experiences he had a reasonable expectation to have those books in that room, and if you knew about it and permitted it, then it COULD be argued that he could reasonably expect them to be safe.

    But I maintain my previous argument...his fault...and really like the statement made earlier by someone - "books belong on a book shelf".

    Okay okay...is this horse dead, yet?
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    hmmm, at the risk of an unpopular opinion....

    I think you may well be responsible.

    I am swayed by an example of the landlord and tenant act - where as if you left a window open and the pipes froze the landlord sues you for negligence.

    even if you didnt think the temperature would drop low enough to cause freezing (or if it could rain and cause rain damage in the sunroom)
    is of no consequence, you still are at fault.

    Surely it is an accident - thats no question - but that doesnt lift the responsibility.

    I think admonishing him for leaving the books wherever they may lay (strewn about or however) is a moot point. This isnt about an untidy roommate and his habits inasmuch as the actual event itself - the books got wet - you left the wondows open.

    If you left the window open and someone broke in - would the robbers be allowed to get away with getting into your place and cleaning you out? Think in court the judge would say - oh well Ma'am - I must let these robbers go?

    It was careless to leave the windows open when no one was home - and whether it was rain damage or a robbery it leads back to you leaving the windows open.

    Dont get me wrong - I do believe it was an accident you wouldn't or couldnt have forseen the results - but it is still negligence on your part.

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    I hope that he left out some first edition books, that would surely piss me off if I loaned my DM a first edition players handbook or unearthed arcania and he left it out to get ruined!

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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Blade is a D.j. link=board=1;threadid=13322;start=msg175172#msg175 172 date=1095171741
    I hope that he left out some first edition books, that would surely piss me off if I loaned my DM a first edition players handbook or unearthed arcania and he left it out to get ruined!
    Sorry Blade.. they weren't... don't know exactly what edition all I know is they definately weren't first..


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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    I am swayed by an example of the landlord and tenant act - where as if you left a window open and the pipes froze the landlord sues you for negligence.
    In that case, the pipes are where they are supposed to be. In this case, the books are moveable items being kept in an area that is generally left open (according to testimony) to the elements (though closed during rain....when possible.)

    Is the horse dead yet?
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    Default Re:Who is responsible ???

    k how bout the robbery example then? LOL!
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