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Thread: Paper Calls Strippers Victims

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    Default Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    So, the Washington Times recently ran a column by Elisabeth Eaves (who wrote the book Bare) saying, among other things, that trying to shut down strip clubs is basically dumb and pointless. That provoked a letter to the editor from someone saying he was a member of the “Christian Medical Association.�
    As so many people do, he basically implies that all strippers are victims, and – he says literally – destined for death by disease. His letter reads:
    “…strip clubs provide a common entry point for forms of modern-day slavery such as prostitution and sexual trafficking…Anyone who would assert libertarian or First Amendment arguments in defense of strip clubs ought to look into the vacant eyes of these victims destined for death by disease and ask them about free speech.
    JONATHAN IMBODY
    Senior policy analyst
    Christian Medical Association
    Ashburn, Va.�
    Thoughts, reactions? I’m sick of people who think like this.
    -Myna

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Wow. I suppose they are ignorant.

    There is no doubt that some strippers are victims. There is also no doubt that some are totally empowered and in control of their lives and their destinies.

    I think it is an individual thing. There are victims in every occupation. And it has to do with finding what makes you happy and comfortable - a balance.

    Obviously someone with an extreme Christian view. I like Christians. What I don't like is extremists, of any sort. The middle ground is where it's at.

    It doesn't make me angry. I think as time goes on, and I become more sure of myself, figure out who I am and become more well-adjusted, as well as accepting of the fact that there will be people who I don't agree with, they can't affect me as much.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    As I've said before, stripping is a job. In any chosen field I'm sure you'll find someone who is a victim of sorts, the sex industry just happens to be the easiest job class to be either a victim or victimized. With easy access to liquor and/or drugs, and with certain aspects of societys views on the role of a woman, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest to find the "christian" sect suggesting that women who dance are victims.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    I think that they've seen so many stories about the Russian Mafiya "forcing" their "employees" into stripping and prostitution that they just automatically assume that every dancer is in the same situation. It also comes from a view-point that dancers "would never do this by choice". They have a negative view about strip clubs, and so they would have a negative view about the dancers who work there.

    Nothing you can do to help these folks. They usually die from some weird case of "Darwinism". Heh

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Face it, hun, there are always going to be people that think like this. I'd bet the person that wrote the letter actually thinks the power lies with the guys in a SC, too.

    Plus, it's the washington times. It's owned by a guy that LITERALLY thinks he's God. Reverend Moon. The Moonies are basically a cult. Natch that some weird shit appears in there.

    I wouldn't take anything that comes up in the Washington times seriously.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Quote Originally Posted by Myna link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180086#msg18 0086 date=1095947060
    His letter reads:
    “…strip clubs provide a common entry point for forms of modern-day slavery such as prostitution and sexual trafficking…

    Thoughts, reactions? I’m sick of people who think like this.
    -Myna
    I think a victom is and will be a victom in all walks of life.Its not reserved for us and us alone.

    But can you say that the first part of his statement is untrue????

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    Senior Member Natascha's Avatar
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Big Green-
    I don't see all prostitution as modern-day slavery, especially first world prostitution that begins in a SC environment.

    Third world, poverty-based prostitution is entirely different and I think VG is correct about Mr. Christian Medical Ass confusing them. Its to be expected...most hardcore Christians get fuzzy in the head when contemplating anything sexual.



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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Quote Originally Posted by Natascha link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180260#msg18 0260 date=1095962806
    Big Green-
    I don't see all prostitution as modern-day slavery, especially first world prostitution that begins in a SC environment.

    Third world, poverty-based prostitution is entirely different and I think VG is correct about Mr. Christian Medical Ass confusing them. Its to be expected...most hardcore Christians get fuzzy in the head when contemplating anything sexual.


    I have known alot of prostitutes in my days.Not to many of them wanted to be prostitues.Some did at first,but none that i knew at the ends of their careers still wanted to hook.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180270#msg18 0270 date=1095963778
    Quote Originally Posted by Natascha link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180260#msg18 0260 date=1095962806
    Big Green-
    I don't see all prostitution as modern-day slavery, especially first world prostitution that begins in a SC environment.

    Third world, poverty-based prostitution is entirely different and I think VG is correct about Mr. Christian Medical Ass confusing them. Its to be expected...most hardcore Christians get fuzzy in the head when contemplating anything sexual.
    I have known alot of prostitutes in my days.Not to many of them wanted to be prostitues.Some did at first,but none that i knew at the ends of their careers still wanted to hook.
    How can this be blamed on strip clubs? Prostitution will always be a problem in the world. But do strip clubs add to this problem. IMHO, no.
    Plus in every occupation there are people who want to do it at first, but decide it isn't right for them. How many people change their majors in college? How many middle aged people go back to school in order to start all over again?

    Relating back to the quote by Imbody, I don't think it is anyone's place to condemn a group of people to death by disease. Perhaps he is the one who needs to look into the oh-so-vacant eyes of some of us victims.




    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    Veteran Member A.n.a.l.a.'s Avatar
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    couldn't said vacant eyes also be tiredness from a long shift, a cold coming on, boredom? doesn't that happen in all occupations? why do y'all automatically need to be "victims?"

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    I over heard a girl today talking on her cell phone while I was at school saying she was gonna go apply at a strip club to be a cocktail waitress. She then went on and on about how classless those places are and how she would only be able to stand it if she made ALOT of money. I just so happen to have booked at the club she was planning on applying at. It made me want to book there again just so I could kick her ass. Some people are so hypocritical and ignorant. They really aren't even worth wasting my breath on anymore.

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    Veteran Member azamber's Avatar
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Sounds like another critic who has never even seen the inside of a strip club in his life! I hate those types of people!

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Are these the same people who believe that masturbation causes blindness?

    As the saying goes there is no reasoning with unreasonable people.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180435#msg18 0435 date=1095987655
    Are these the same people who believe that masturbation causes blindness?

    As the saying goes there is no reasoning with unreasonable people.
    No, these are the same people that oogle you from the tip rail. See, you're sinning, they can just go home and ask for forgiveness. I know this is a religious thing because it comes from a man. If it had been from a woman, i'd thing 50% 50% religion/Femenism (Though misguided femenism, since the dancers have all the power in a SC, I get out of line and the dancer decides i need to go out the door, where do i go?)

    It makes me sick that most of the "you are doing it all wrong" Christians are also the ones that hide their porno in the closet. I don't mind the true blues, because they walk the way they talk, it's the wannabe's that bother me.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Related- people calling dancers victims/degraded/etc.

    Letter re: pole dancing classes in a local alternative weekly:

    http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=5017

    My response (second one. The first is my friend, the third is some guy who's f'ing funny! Not my real name, btw )

    http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=5211

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    Member domino0716's Avatar
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    That prick I bet is the same kind of freak that likes to be pissed or shit on. Or is on the Down- Low and is pissed of that he's a fag(no disrespect to gays)

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    Veteran Member Jo Weldon's Avatar
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    I think you could say that some people in the sex industry do feel that they're stuck in dead-end jobs. I'm not saying everybody is, but maybe some people are, just as people in other lines of work can be.

    However, slavery is a real phenomenon, not a metaphor for frustration or angst. Since it really occurs, I think it trivializes the desperate situations of those who are being held and forced against thier will to work, without any mobility or any chance of handling their own income, to equate a relatively voluntary situation with slavery.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180270#msg18 0270 date=1095963778
    Quote Originally Posted by Natascha link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180260#msg18 0260 date=1095962806
    Big Green-
    I don't see all prostitution as modern-day slavery, especially first world prostitution that begins in a SC environment.

    Third world, poverty-based prostitution is entirely different and I think VG is correct about Mr. Christian Medical Ass confusing them. Its to be expected...most hardcore Christians get fuzzy in the head when contemplating anything sexual.


    I have known alot of prostitutes in my days.Not to many of them wanted to be prostitues.Some did at first,but none that i knew at the ends of their careers still wanted to hook.
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  18. #18
    Big D
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Well, there are groups who bring women over from other countries and force them to strip. Every cent that these women make goes to the "Traffickers" just like pimping. We had some Russian women who were trafficked in my club. I always worried about some of the Asian women too.

    Anyhoo - I am sure that most of you have seen this website but for those who havn't - take a peek at the manual. It will really piss you off!

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Right, but you can easily distinguish trafficked dancers (not by sight but legally) from the others who would rather not do it but aren't willing to give it up yet.

    I've been in some legislative hearings where the goal of the anti-sex-industry people was to break down that distinction, to say that being unhappy about being there was the same as slavery, and I just don't think it is.

    Personally, there were times when I was glad to be there, and times when I was wanted to get out and stayed anyway. But I did stop dancing for a living because I really prepared to go on to something else, not because a trafficker allowed me to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg181384#msg18 1384 date=1096140150
    Well, there are groups who bring women over from other countries and force them to strip. Every cent that these women make goes to the "Traffickers" just like pimping. We had some Russian women who were trafficked in my club. I always worried about some of the Asian women too.

    Anyhoo - I am sure that most of you have seen this website but for those who havn't - take a peek at the manual. It will really piss you off!

    http://www.lightdancers.org/
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


  20. #20
    Big D
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Yes, I think most of the girls know who is working for someone else.

    All in all, it surprises me when women say they actually "like" this occupation and want to be in it. I say that if we all had the chance to do something else, make the same amount of money and work the same amount of hours and keep our clothes on we would do it.

    This is a very painful occupation and what makes it even harder is society's opinion about what we do. Over the years, I made do because of the money but I don't think that I ever liked it, wanted to do it or thought that I would be doing it for such a long time. In a sense, I felt trapped because, aside from going to school it was all I had ever done. And, who was ever going to hire me, even with education, knowing what I had done?

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    I think the flexibility of schedule is more of an attraction than the money, at times. But there were times when I genuinely loved it, as well as times when I genuinely hated it. And when I did quit, it wasn't because I was hating it, but because I was ready to start doing something else. i can't explain really why I was ready, I just was. There was opportunity, and I had the energy for it.

    I don't think a career change is ever easy for anybody, and I do think the lack of resume stripping leaves you with is a real concern. But there are worlds of ways to make a living besides getting job with a resume or being a stripper.

    I miss working parttime, no matter how I felt about the job. Now I have a sales job in addition to having a partner with an online business, as well as occasional other endeavors, and I don't get to socialize, spend time with my family, or read as much as as I used to. I'm not complaining, just saying that you're right, you do have to give up some things to get others, most of the time. For instance, I really miss reading time, but I don't miss getting off work at 4 am.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big D link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg181417#msg18 1417 date=1096142580
    Yes, I think most of the girls know who is working for someone else.

    All in all, it surprises me when women say they actually "like" this occupation and want to be in it. I say that if we all had the chance to do something else, make the same amount of money and work the same amount of hours and keep our clothes on we would do it.

    This is a very painful occupation and what makes it even harder is society's opinion about what we do. Over the years, I made do because of the money but I don't think that I ever liked it, wanted to do it or thought that I would be doing it for such a long time. In a sense, I felt trapped because, aside from going to school it was all I had ever done. And, who was ever going to hire me, even with education, knowing what I had done?
    Blog:


    Burlesque classes and info:


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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Quote Originally Posted by Jo Weldon link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg181307#msg18 1307 date=1096132243
    I think you could say that some people in the sex industry do feel that they're stuck in dead-end jobs. I'm not saying everybody is, but maybe some people are, just as people in other lines of work can be.

    However, slavery is a real phenomenon, not a metaphor for frustration or angst. Since it really occurs, I think it trivializes the desperate situations of those who are being held and forced against thier will to work, without any mobility or any chance of handling their own income, to equate a relatively voluntary situation with slavery.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180270#msg18 0270 date=1095963778
    Quote Originally Posted by Natascha link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg180260#msg18 0260 date=1095962806
    Big Green-
    I don't see all prostitution as modern-day slavery, especially first world prostitution that begins in a SC environment.

    Third world, poverty-based prostitution is entirely different and I think VG is correct about Mr. Christian Medical Ass confusing them. Its to be expected...most hardcore Christians get fuzzy in the head when contemplating anything sexual.


    I have known alot of prostitutes in my days.Not to many of them wanted to be prostitues.Some did at first,but none that i knew at the ends of their careers still wanted to hook.
    good point

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Since, I am a Christian and what I consider Conservative in that respect I took note of some of the posts in this topic. Christian Medical Society is a respectable Group comprising of over 10,000 Doctors and Dentists and other high ranking Medical Professionals who also acknowledge that they are Christians. The Group is partly known for its responses to some of the AMA policies and viewpoints. Most notably the AMA policy regarding Homosexuals and other non Heterosexual lifestyles. It is a Pro Family and Pro Life organization.

    CMS often involves itself in affairs related to emotional and mental health when it involves some type of sexual orientation or practice especially when it involves a behavior that is self destructive or detrimental to others.

    Some Dancers are indeed victims of past sexual offenses. Most Adult Stars, Entertainers and other Sex Industry Workers admit to past sex activity while in their early ages. It is a fact that Women who are raped or sexually abused react to a degree that effects almost every aspect of thier life. Even in consensual Sex most Women hold to it a much higher emotional degree then that of men. (Not always the case). However, not all Dancers or Adult Industry Workers had such experiences.

    Some of the Christians who criticize the Adult Industry do justly criticize it. Too many in the industry take advantage of vulnerable Women who use these Women to line their own pockets. Some of these Women have Boyfriends and even Husbands who act as Pimps. I think the Adult Industry needs to self regulate itself. Get rid of the Escort Agencies and the Mafia Influence as well as getting rid of the frauds in the Industry. Strip Club Chains are nothing more then a Pimp Service with Mafia connections.

    Strip Clubs who take a cut in a Dancers wage are no better then Pimps. Dancers should be Independent Contractors and should not have to pay out a % of their earnings. At most a Club should not be allowed to get more then $20 a night from a Dancer.

    I dont think in the U.S, Sex Slavery is a problem except among a small group of persons from a non Western Culture. However in other parts of the World such as in India and Africa it is a problem.

    You should not be critical of a persons religious beliefs. I saw a lot of insults of people in this topic without adressing the issue.

    In any case, a Dancer who does not like her job should find a different occupation.


  24. #24
    Big D
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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    I found this website last night and decided to pass it on to you all. I think the 12-steps can be used in every area of our lives, whether is it to help with an addiction or to lessen the psychological effects of stripping. Anyway, maybe someone will find this helpful.

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    Default Re:Paper Calls Strippers Victims

    Quote Originally Posted by sgtjohnny link=board=27;threadid=13747;start=msg181474#msg18 1474 date=1096147758

    CMS often involves itself in affairs related to emotional and mental health when it involves some type of sexual orientation or practice especially when it involves a behavior that is self destructive or detrimental to others.
    I think we all appreciate and respect your religious beliefs. However, religious beliefs have an unfortunate tendency to slip into religious intolerance when people in large organizations become convinced that their faith grants them the right to judge the sexual behavior of others (see also, "Islamic Fundamentalism"). Who determines what sexual behavior is "self-destructive" or "detrimental to others?" I understand that Imbody wants to make that judgment, but he's not fooling anybody. It's also why he takes that shot at libertarians and First Amendment defenders because they (we) have the argument precisely right. Government has no business in our bedrooms or private lives (the framers saw to this, particularly Benjamin Franklin, who was busy sleeping with half the married women in New England and later, France).

    I noticed that Jonathan Imbody seems to get a lot of press, but it is suspiciously concentrated almost exclusive with the Washington Times and the religious member organizations supporting his group. If he's really interested in the "vacant eyes of victims," he should consider the tens of thousands of adherents to the Unification Church, which publishes the Washington Times at a spectacular financial loss. They are the victims who toil in poverty to support the megalomaniacal Sun Yung Moon and assure this paper is actually published and Mr. Imbody's words see daylight.

    Final thought. I have my doubts about whether CMS is actually real or is simply an elaborate front. It carries a series of different names -- "Christian Medical Society," "Christian Medical Association" and "Christian Medical and Dental Society" all under the international organization of the latter name, which seems to have folded up its tent and run off to South Africa.


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