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Thread: ATF's

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    Default Re: Remebering names...

    Fishnet, i've been noticing that you've had some not so nice things to report about your ATF lately... maybe it's time to consider "punting".

    hmmm... there doesn't seem to be an appropriate smiley to demonstrate the punt formation (ya know, like a lil smiley bending over with a foot planted in it's bum).

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    Default Re: Remebering names...

    Alanna, the above comment wasn't meant to be derogatory. It was just an observation. I have seen very few girls actually use customer names. Mostly terms of endearment. I can understand that considering they probably meet a 100 guys a day. I'm sure not using names becomes habit to avoid mistakes.

    If you were refering to last Tuesday's comments, I had punted!!! Using your anology the ATF took the ball straight down the field and scored. LOL. I was standing firmly by those comments till a phone call at about 7:00pm Sat. night. From a logical point of view, her explanations had more holes than swiss cheese but for 10 months she has done everything right soooo she got the benefit of doubt. If I could remember what threads those comment were posted in, I'd edit them.

    Just as it is the little things that keep customers coming back, little things will drive us away too. Making a customer feel like nothing more than an ATM is a MAJOR faux pas. Nothing will drive us away quicker. By way of example one of our favorite board members found out from the bartender that his ATF called him a "cheap ass." 2 words, five seconds, she was toast. Never got another dime.
    When the man says, "I do," it is the happiest day of her life.-Al Bundy

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    Default ATF's

    ATF’s

    I really think we need a forum dedicated to anything and everything about ATF’s instead of several separate threads. LOL.

    This past week regular SCJ’s will have noticed contradictory comments I have made regarding my ATF. Alanna poked fun at me today so I thought more of an explanation may be in order. This is one crazy business. It is business and we all know that. Still the up close and personal nature of it does cause feelings and emotions to come into play. Dancers and customers alike can be hurt or at the very least, feel slighted by the actions of their ATF or regular customers.

    Once again, it is just business. As such, I expect good customer service. My ATF has always provided that till the end of May. I feel I have been taken for granted recently. And my ATF agreed with my laundry list of complaints, apologized and said she'll do better. Last weeks rant in which I declared the ATF history was a culmination of 5 weeks of poor communication, excuses and a business trip planned with a night spent at the club where I drove 400 miles and failed to hook up When I call, it is not to chat. It is to set-up a playdate. Phone calls need to be returned. I’ll only phone once and leave one message. Communication is key! You have to know when you are hooking up. Not only is timely response necessary to conduct business, it is only courteous. The illusion that it is not just about money is critical!!! Messages only sent a couple days away from a payday don’t cut it. No matter what the ATF says it comes off as: “I know you got paid. Come see me!” In this light, off pay period communication is a must. She needs to make some small talk, tell me if she saw her dad on father’s day or if she saw a good movie. Anything will do. I don’t have time in my schedule for the traditional dating game right now. I don’t go into the club looking for extras. Just give me great dances, good conversation and good customer service. Run your business like a business and I’m happy. Take me for granted and I’m gone.

    Is this too much? I think not. Others on this site have dubbed me a high roller though I don’t consider myself one. Last month my ATF earned $2100 in 2 visits. She has averaged over $1400 a month for 10 months. Would you take 15 minutes out of your life to send and e-mail or make a phone call once a week if you knew it would keep a customer like me happy?

    I posted this on the pink site. Some of you have already read it. It’s all I want. Iwrote it about my ATF 7 months ago.

    The Fantasy Angle

    I’ve started to write this post at least 5 times and have never been able to complete it. Hopefully, this will be the one that makes it to the board. Lol. When I first started getting lap dances, I never gave any thought to “the fantasy angle.” I simply thought if some dances are good more have to be better. It turned out, the dollars spent had little to do with how I felt at the end of the night. Some nights, I’d go home grinning like a Cheshire cat. On others, I’d wonder why I went. This happened even though I was using my favorite dancers. I always enjoyed their company when I was with them. The dances were great! Why was I going home disappointed? This has weighed on my mind for months. Finally, I think I have some answers. It is an accumulation of little things that really don’t take much time. In the grand scheme of things it adds up big!!! It turns out that how well a dancer works “the fantasy angle” makes the difference every time.

    All customers that get lap dances on a regular basis, know walking in the door, it is all about the money for you ladies. That’s why you are there. When you work the magic you all do so well, in addition to the turn on, you make the customer feel very special. If you keep that feeling going till the customer is out the door, they feel good about the money spent and can’t wait to come back. Oddly it is this ability to make the customer at least consciously think, “it’s not about the money,” even though we know is, that keeps us coming back. Talk about twisted!

    For the most part, Sacramento is a blue-collar town. Someone in my trade earns a full 33% less in Sacramento than they would in the bay area. I mention this because I think dancers see so much cash change hands that they become jaded. A good night for one of you ladies is more than most earn in a week. If a minimum wage earner buys 4 dances, he just parted with 20% of his gross income in a two-week period. That may not even pay your rent and tip out but it is huge for him. Even though you only spent 12 minutes with that customer, if you worked your magic, that customer is feeling good and somewhat special. One of the biggest fantasy killers I’ve seen is when the entertainer slips out of character when the money changes hands. By this I mean there is a definite change in her body language or voice inflection. The customer can read it. In effect, by her actions the girl unintentionally, has said: “I got the money. Game over. I don’t have to be nice anymore. See ya sucker.” Chances are this customer won’t be a repeat. His head was up in the clouds and you popped the balloon before he ever got out of the PR. Big mistake! Obviously the more a customer spends, the more egregious this error is.

    If a regular customer spends a lot of money at the club, there is plenty of time for buyers- remorse to set in. Remember all expenditures at GCC are discretionary. I hesitate to say what a lot of money is simply because the figure will vary depending on the customer. Arbitrarily, let’s just say someone is spending $300 a month. Not even close to a good night’s work for you ladies!!! Still… that represents a car payment or more to most customers. It is your job to make the customer happier spending the money on you than they would be buying the new car, a digital camera or waiting 2 months and buying a new computer. By working the “fantasy angle,” you can maximize your chances of getting this kind of repeat business.

    I may be an anomaly in terms of the number of dances I get or how often I go to the club. Regardless, you ladies are in a customer service business and everyone responds to personalized service. How has my current regular worked the “fantasy angle” so successfully that she has gotten all my dances except 2 over the last 4 months????

    First, she followed my advice and joined the board. And she is working it. Lol. Since I have to drive 2.5 hours every time I go to the club, I want to be sure my lady is going to be there before setting a foot out the door. In nine outings we would have missed each other 3 times. If you aren’t on the board you can’t arrange play dates in advance! If you are on the board, you have to read and respond to your posts and PM's. That will take you maybe ½ an hour a week. No big deal. I always send a PM to let my dancer know when I’m coming up and she confirms she’ll be there. There are always a few personal comments as well. Neither of us attempts to duplicate “War and Peace.” LOL. Sweet! Easy so far right? I like to play as soon as she comes on the floor and she knows where to find me. Off we go. I get taken care without having to wait. She knows she’ll start the night off strong. We both win. Obviously I get great dances without exception! She never slips out of character. She has been so tired it looked like she was going to fall asleep during a break between songs once. She never once gave the impression she would rather be anywhere other than dancing for me… a real trooper. :wink: She acts like the money is inconsequential. I know what she charges. Any money talk is kept to a minimum. That just kills the fantasy. I do ask to be given periodic price checks so she doesn’t break the bank. When the dances are over she always hangs out. The time varies. As little as 10 minutes and as long as 45 minutes once. She never asks for the money or gives the impression she is in a hurry to get it. After the dances, most dancers will ask: “Are you leaving now or going to hang out?” And then don’t do anything with the information. My entertainer does. If I’m leaving, she walks me to the door just to say goodnight. There are three advantages that I can think of. It prevents other dancers from approaching me (that way I’ll be thinking of her when I leave), if the auto-teller should call my name, she is there to reap the benefits and it perpetuates the fantasy that she actually cares. If I hang around, she always says she will find me later and does so. Twice we just talked. On the other occasions I found myself coming up with enough for an extra video sale. I can’t help it. I just love to play. LMAO. Even if I weren’t getting the dances, I’m sure she would find me. It just keeps the illusion that it’s not “all” about the money going. I receive a PM from her at least every two weeks. Usually more. She is no dummy!!! She knows how often I get paid. LOL. She never asks when I’m coming in. If I know or have an idea, I’ll tell her. She gives me great-personalized service so I have no problem making it easy for her to get my money. As you can see, there are no big secrets. You all give great dances. Little things make the difference. Most regulars just want their business to be appreciated and to always be treated like people instead of a mark. My entertainer’s attention to detail has sent me home with that Cheshire cat grin every time.
    When the man says, "I do," it is the happiest day of her life.-Al Bundy

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    Default Re: ATF's

    Fish, you are making going to a stripclub way to complicated and putting too much work into it! LOL

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    Default Re: ATF's

    I like the email/PM idea. I wish ladies at my club would do this. Don't ask when your coming like Fish sez,just drop a lil note. That would mean alot
    Don't make me spank you!

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    Default Re: ATF's

    My ATF sends thoughtful, personal e-mails at least twice a week. That's more endearing to me than anything else she could do.

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    Default Re: Remebering names...

    Your point is well taken Amber! It wasn't my experience though. I'm sure what the bartender said corraborated the dancers actions. I'm sure the person this happened to will chime in. He is not a shy one. LOL.
    When the man says, "I do," it is the happiest day of her life.-Al Bundy

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    Default Re: ATF's

    My ATF became my ATF one night when I was leaving the club. We had already spent quite a while together and she was with another customer. We had a habit of always saying goodnight to each other so I waited a while for her to finish with this guy but he wasn't eager to spend his money nor was he eager to shut up. It was getting late and I have a long drive so I got up and headed downstairs and to the exit. As I got to the bottom of the stairs I heard the unmistakeable sound of my ATF's high heels shuffling quickly in the distance, heading in my direction. She saw me leaving-She had left her customer at the bar, run across the room and down a flight of stairs in heels and a gown to say good night to me. I was floored.
    I'm an old school SCJ. I know where the line is drawn between fantasy and reality in these clubs and she was and is to this day, the only woman who has ever done anything like that to me.

    This girl isn't dancing right now, she may or may not dance again, but she'll always be my ATF.
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    Default Re: ATF's

    Yeah, mine also kept me interested with e-mail.

    But she also said something that no one had said to me before "I'm with you, until you leave". Now I was into it enough at the time to realize that she's there to make money, not to keep me entertained, so I didn't abuse that privilege.

    She also gave me a look one time, when coming off-stage and across the room, which "took my head off" and made me spill my beer.

    Those kinds of things made me patient to wait for her for hours, even when I was bored to death in the club. Whatever club at the time she was at didn't really matter. It was enjoying her beauty, sexiness and twisted sense of humor.

    -Sad-
    Blonde jokes are two lines long so that men can understand them.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    LOL Sad, I think I know what look your talking about
    Don't make me spank you!

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    Default Re: Remebering names...

    Just as it is the little things that keep customers coming back, little things will drive us away too. Making a customer feel like nothing more than an ATM is a MAJOR faux pas. Nothing will drive us away quicker.
    that's pretty much what i was referring to. from your comments, it looked like your ATF started taking you for granted. good for you that you punted when you started feeling unappreciated. hopefully, she'll learn from this experience and figure out that she lost you as a customer when she "fumbled" so she won't make the same mistake again.

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    Default Re: Remebering names...

    Amber, the guy Fish is referring to is me...TA DAAAA LOL The bartender who made the comment to me had always been straight with me in the past. He ever prefaced his comment by saying "...look, it's probably none of my business but youre a good guy and I dont want to see you get f**ked over..." He was aware of my relationship with my then ATF (inside and outside the bar...no secrets at a strip club LOL) I never confronted her about her "comment"...maybe I should have. But based on some signs I had been receiving from her previously, I believed him. She was offended at a $200 tip (...not LD money...pure tip). I guess that overshadowed the $20K she had received in the past. Go figure.

    PS to Chuck: This probably should be in the ATF thread rather than this one but I just wanted to clarify and expound upon the convers between Fish and Amber
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    I wish I could start an anonymous poll regarding ATF relationships outside the bar. Ive been very open with my past experience (probably too much so LOL) but dont recall any of the guys here mentioning anything beyond "normal" club activities. Am I a lone voice, crying in the wilderness? In retrospect, I was a crazy bastard and put my whole life in jeopardy but damn, those memories STILL drive me crazy after almost a year. Comments?
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    Everyone is looking for something different but my favs and my ATF are all a little older and are pretty much too smart to get involved with a customer-fine by me as I'm not looking for that anyway. I always assume there is a SO even if they don't talk about him...
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    Default Re: ATF's

    Fatboyroy, crazy bastards rule. I've lived Fatal Attraction 2 and Clueless 2. No regrets; it's all good. Write me if you want.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    Some of us have been to dinner and drinks. Haven't had the outside the club experiences you have FBR.
    When the man says, "I do," it is the happiest day of her life.-Al Bundy

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    Default Re: ATF's

    Is this too much? I think not. Others on this site have dubbed me a high roller though I don’t consider myself one. Last month my ATF earned $2100 in 2 visits. She has averaged over $1400 a month for 10 months. Would you take 15 minutes out of your life to send and e-mail or make a phone call once a week if you knew it would keep a customer like me happy?
    $1400 a month for 10 months is not being a high roller?
    [rotflmao]No need for your ATF to email or call you, you're hooked [devil]



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    Default Re: ATF's

    Carlos, the point is she DOES need to email and/or call him. If shes not careful she may be longing for the Fish that got away (no pun intended LOL)
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    Actually, FBR, if she has no out-of-club relationship with him, she doesn't, because it is what it is, sadly. It's all money and dance. Some dancers do communicate, some don't. It's just fun when they do.

    When it goes outside of the club, it's another ball game.

    That last part I am still dealing with myself.

    -Sad-
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    Default Re: ATF's

    Sad, I agree that an outside the bar relationship does change things big time, but damnnnn considering the kind of money often spent by "high rollers" on a single ATF, I dont think an email or call once in a while is a big imposition. My ex ATF bought a new silver Dodge Stratus 2 door coupe which was a sweet ride. I know I helped her pay for at least a portion of it. IMHO, its about respect I guess.
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Featured Member sadbuttrue's Avatar
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    Default Re: ATF's

    This thread got scrambled and mine got posted in the middle somewhere so here is the first in response to FBR at 6:17:

    The answer is, she doesn't care enough. He should just drop her, if he actually makes phone calls, sets up times has a schedule, etc. as he alluded to.

    -Sad-

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    Featured Member sadbuttrue's Avatar
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    Default Re: ATF's

    And the second:

    I wanted to get those words out so you weren't left hanging.

    If she wants to keep him as a customer, yes. But she doesn't have to do anything.

    I have a Fave right now, that I am with every other Wed. She's cute, sexy and just feels good. We don't communicate at all outside. It just is consistent and I made it clear that's what I wanted. Last Wed. she was busy, but making the attempt to at least get away from who she's with to say "Hello". So I chattered with another girl for the same price per hour. I wasn't throwing it in her face. I just told her I'd see her in two weeks. And she seems OK. She knows I wanted to be with her.

    Another I see, but not on a schedule. I just show up on a Saturday sometime and we do our thing.

    They know about each other...I told them. They are in two different clubs up the road from each other.

    I am trying not be emotionally invested in them. Because I let that happen before.

    -Sad but true- lol

    Sorry Sad! I moved some off topic remarks to this thread and your post got a little out of sync, Carry on! LOL
    Chuck
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    Featured Member sadbuttrue's Avatar
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    Default Re: ATF's

    Ok...fine!!!

    -Sad-
    Blonde jokes are two lines long so that men can understand them.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    Since my ATF reads the threads, what started out as a once a week visit to the club for an hour as no turned into an odd friendship outside the club. We go shopping (no I don't pay), lunch, dinner, movies, play pool and go bowling. We talk everyday. I'm married, she's married, we've become best friends. I tell her and she tells me things we would never tell our spouses.

    We get together as a couples and go out. Neither spouses know that we speak everyday. Even when we can't speak in person, we would leave messages on our cell phone voice mail.

    It's been a good two years and we both know that this "odd" friendship will last forever. And it goes to prove that a man and a woman can be friends without sex.

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    Default Re: ATF's

    It's all money and dance.

    When it goes outside of the club, it's another ballgame.
    Exactly!!! That is why she needs to communicate!!! I live an hour an 15 minutes from the club. We always set things up in advance. She didn't respond in a timely manner to PMs I knew she read. Our board tells us that. I planned a side job to coincide with her work schedule. Drove to Reno did the job, drove to Sac, hit the gym, cleaned up and rolled in with 2K. She would not have gotten it all. No telling how much. It cost her money that night because she didn't show for her usual shift. It is the only time we have missed each other. Sure, I could have called her and she would have come running lickety split. As far as I was concerned, TS! She blew it. FBR is right. It is about respect. We did get things straightened out so it's all good for now.

    BTW- it has gone outside the club too.


    When the man says, "I do," it is the happiest day of her life.-Al Bundy

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