Porn

[Adina]

Guys, this is slightly off-topic, but I was wondering if I could pick your brains on the topic of porn.

I used to like porn. I really did. I started watching it when I was 15. My best friend & I even started "Friday Nite Porn Party" in high school, where we'd get together, watch porn, and get high. My fascination continues right up to this day.

The problem is lack of material that I like. Or actually, just porn that doesn't disgust me out or disturb me. Over the last 5 years or so, the trend in porn seems to be maximum gross-out plus misogyny. I used to disagree with feminists like Andrea Dworkin that porn was all about woman-hating but watching the newer stuff makes me wonder. Bukkake...cream pies...Max Hardcore...double penetration...TRIPLE penetration. I don't need or want to see that! Do you guys actually LIKE that stuff? Why?

I don't like Vivid Video/Andrew Blake with their augmented glamazons, but I also really have no interest in some Czech teenager being multiple penetrated in every single orifice and made to lick cum out of a bowl, know what I mean? Have any recommendations for a happy medium?

[lethalsoul]

http://adultdvdtalk.com/enter.asp?r=...Default.asp&q=

[doc-catfish]

The problem is lack of material that I like. Or actually, just porn that doesn't disgust me out or disturb me. Over the last 5 years or so, the trend in porn seems to be maximum gross-out plus misogyny. I used to disagree with feminists like Andrea Dworkin that porn was all about woman-hating but watching the newer stuff makes me wonder. Bukkake...cream pies...Max Hardcore...double penetration...TRIPLE penetration. I don't need or want to see that! Do you guys actually LIKE that stuff? Why?

Adina, I share your displeasure of what is passing off as adult "entertainment" these days.

I think what was happened over the last decade is that there has been such a glut of product with the traditional porn genres, (boy-girl, girl-girl), that all the video companies are trying to do something to get their product to stick out, which has led to this infestation of things that seem to be there more for shock value than masturbatory purposes. Seems to appeal more to the same people who like the Faces of Death movies, or websites like rotten.com than someone interested in sex.

I suppose there are a few who go for that sort of thing, but not me. In fact I find almost all video porn quite boring because it leaves nothing to my imagination. I frankly find more eroticism in a Playboy Newsstand Special, a Maxim spread, or dare I say it, some of the softer pics in the SW gallery.

What little hardcore porn that I do have, I've noticed that out of the entire movie, there's probably only about five minutes of action that I care to watch more or less making the rest of the tape a waste of money. The standard girl goes down on guy -> guy goes down on girl -> guy penetrates girl -> guy pulls out and cums on girl's face routine can only be done so many times before it all looks the same.

I don't like Vivid Video/Andrew Blake with their augmented glamazons, but I also really have no interest in some Czech teenager being multiple penetrated in every single orifice and made to lick cum out of a bowl, know what I mean? Have any recommendations for a happy medium?

The AB films are appealing to a lot of women because of the upscale scenery and beautiful actresses. They're a good intro for a gal whose curious about porn but never watched it. If some women have a complaint with Blake or Vivid, its that much like any professionally produced porn, it still lacks passion because the people you see in them are actors, and not folks who have genuine sexual chemistry between them.

If you don't mind "actors" who look like real people, you may want to consider trying some amateur videos. I mean REAL amateur videos, not some of the quasi-professional stuff you see anymore being passed off as amateur for marketing purposes. There's probably some offerings at your local adult video store, and a ton of it available on your friendly neighborhood internet. Its not my genre so I can't give you any specific titles or places to look, but perhaps a few guys here can. Of course, if you find amateur appealing, you might just want to grab your SO and a camcorder and make your own.

Whatever your preferences, my advice is to take stock of what really gets your buttons pushed in a porn flick and look for material that features a lot of that. Best of luck.

[lestat1]

The problem is lack of material that I like. Or actually, just porn that doesn't disgust me out or disturb me. Over the last 5 years or so, the trend in porn seems to be maximum gross-out plus misogyny. I used to disagree with feminists like Andrea Dworkin that porn was all about woman-hating but watching the newer stuff makes me wonder. Bukkake...cream pies...Max Hardcore...double penetration...TRIPLE penetration. I don't need or want to see that! Do you guys actually LIKE that stuff? Why?

Yeah, I like it. Why? Porn is like expressionist film. In this case, it attempts to show and outwardly express the inward desires and lust. It adresses issues that cause men grief. Remember that most men don't get enough sex, and the biggest turn on in bed for men is a woman who is enthusiastic. So porn depicts wome having tons of sex (2 guy DP) who really, really like it, any way they can (so much so that gosh darnit they just want his cum all over their face). Men also hate getting rejected, so what does porn do? It shows a woman accepting everything about the man, whatever he offers, and enjoying it. That's a key part too. You can't have a porn movie without the woman really enjoying it the whole time, it just doesn't work. The 'moaning porn star' alleviates men's concerns over rejection, unenthusiasm, and not getting enough sex; because here is a woman that doesn't feel those things at all. Porn just takes these concerns and desires and adresses them to an extreme.

This is why I never bought that misogyeny BS, they just don't get it. Porn isn't about making men feel good by putting women down, it's about making men feel good by alleviating their griefs and concerns; showing them a woman who isn't rejecting, isn't bored in bed, and isn't going to leave him unsatisfied.

To use some analogies, porn for men is like a small kid being bullied who dreams of being (not a regular grown up) but a superhero! Or an orphan who dreams that their parents are loving and kind, desperately searching for their lost child to rescue them from the orphanage. Or a poor person dreaming of excessive wealth.

So that answers why I like it, as far as finding porn movies you'll enjoy, well...think about what your fantasies are and exactly what you'd like to see in that "happy medium." If you can think of it, I'm sure there's porn somewhere that caters to it. Try http://www.adultdvdempire.com
They have a large assortment with a lot of features that might make searching for what you'd like easier to find.

-lestat1

[Adina]

I dunno, lestat1, I hope it's that benign, but I don't think it is. Slapping, choking, and name-calling are frequent. I remember once my former BF and I rented a Kristy Myst video. The first scene? She's a babysitter bound, gagged, and raped by intruders all while the audio of baby crying plays in the background. We turned it off. Guess the title should have been a tip-off - "I'm a Cum-Sucking Slut Whore Bitch." Yikes. Seriously, it's more than portraying women as being accommodating; it's more like a sadistic payback.

I'm veering off on a tangent here, but I admit: I've been around the block. And I feel like porn has ruined a whole generation of men. When they have sex, they think they're supposed to act like the guys in pornos do. I admit, I like it rough sometimes, but when an FB ALWAYS wants to pull my hair, smack my ass, and come on my face, it gets really boring. Knowing myself, and knowing other women, we don't want to have 3 dicks up our asses simultaneously. That would hurt! :o

[electric_head]

Hey Adina,
I used to go to the walk-in to watch porn it was a lot better. Have you checked out some of the lady behind the camera stuff? I think Marilyn Chambers was doing some, anda few others. As for the SMF stuff you just look at it and say DAMN how do they do that.

[JimLovesJazz]

I also wonder about the women( and sometimes men) that allow this stuff to be done to them? I mean I get spam here and there of golden and even brown showers- gross! If thats not misogynistic, I don't know what is How does that turn someone on anyway?
And as for the double anal, well I don't care to put my cock up anyones ass, thanks anyway. To me sex is about feeling good myself AND making my partner feel good- not hurting her.

[mr_punk]

I think what was happened over the last decade is that there has been such a glut of product with the traditional porn genres, (boy-girl, girl-girl), that all the video companies are trying to do something to get their product to stick out

i agree. anyone can make porn. i mean that literally. unlike the so-called "golden age of porn" in the 70-early 80's when the production values were higher, when an attempt was made to write a decent script, when facials and anal were not as common. although, some of them had rough scenes dipicting rape, rough sex, golden showers,etc, it just wasn't as common because you had fewer offerings compared to today.

today, porn is fairly cheap to make. the talent is very cheap. time wise, you can shoot a complete porn video in a day and can make a decent profit if it can be promoted and distributed effectively. as a result, the market is oversaturated with product offerings. eventually, there will be a shaking out due to competition leaving only the major companies like Vivid, Private, etc (and some smaller niche offerings). however, for now there is a little something for everyone. porn pretty much caters to any niche, if it can sell.

I suppose there are a few who go for that sort of thing, but not me. In fact I find almost all video porn quite boring because it leaves nothing to my imagination.

a few? some of the most profitable videos are the videos that appeal to raincoater market. FYI, Raincoaters are people who are turned on by extremely explicit, hardcore material as opposed to the "romantic" couples type video. raincoaters are heavy renters/buyers. so, they make up a large percentage of the industry's income. raincoaters usually hate videos from companies like Vivid because they don't usually have scenes like A2M, DAP, etc.

Seems to appeal more to the same people who like the Faces of Death movies, or websites like rotten.com than someone interested in sex.

really? one man's garbage is another man's fantasy. about 4 or 5(?) years ago there was this movie called "Rough Sex" that had the newgroup, rec.arts.movies.erotica up in arms. the movie had scenes of spanking, face slapping, forced sex, suffocation, etc. some people liked it. OTOH, some people hated it because they felt that it provided the perfect excuse for people like Dworkin (and later Ashcroft) to come after the porn industry. while others found it disturbing because of the level of brutality depicted in the movie. in any case, i didn't find anything particularly disturbing about the movie. i didn't find it erotic either, but that had more to do with the female actors rather than the scenes themselves, which i found to be kinky, but not violent.

[Adina]

mr_punk, as usual, knows everything and has all the answers. Hey, you know what would really turn me on? A porno with me sporting a 12" strap-on, and mr. punk as my BOB (bend-over boyfriend). Whaddya say, punk, are you game?

[mr_punk]

i didn't know you cared. to answer your question, that would depend. i have a 2 hour minimum. my rates are $100/hr, but if you expect me to shut up and not to be an obnoxious smart ass then my rates $1000/hr.

[SportsWriter2]

I'm not a big porn fan, but I like because it's safe and yummy.... I like some dancers who play rough, so I watch the IR gangbangs they talk about.... I like Jenna Haze sometimes.... My favorites are documentaries I made of young dancers talking about their lonely lives.

[JimLovesJazz]

the movie had scenes of spanking, face slapping, forced sex, suffocation, etc. some people liked it. OTOH, some people hated it because they felt that it provided the perfect excuse for people like Dworkin (and later Ashcroft) to come after the porn industry. while others found it disturbing because of the level of brutality depicted in the movie. in any case, i didn't find anything particularly disturbing about the movie. i didn't find it erotic either, but that had more to do with the female actors rather than the scenes themselves, which i found to be kinky, but not violent.

You found scenes of forced sex and suffocation to be kinky but not violent ???

How is rape and choking someone not violent

[mr_punk]

You found scenes of forced sex and suffocation to be kinky but not violent
How is rape and choking someone not violent

that's a pretty loaded question, don't you think? there is a big difference between an actual rape which is a violent and non-consensual act and two consenting adults having kinky sex. have you ever tried kinky sex, JLJ?

To me sex is about feeling good myself AND making my partner feel good- not hurting her

nevermind. i know this might seem a bit shocking, but if sex is about feeling good and not hurting your partner. isn't it possible to achieve that same feeling by choking, flogging, spanking or by tying your partner up like a thanksgiving turkey? believe it or not, some men and women actually enjoy being face slapped, spanked, choked, humilated (verbally and pubilcally), tied-up, etc. you may see it as hurting your partner, but they see it otherwise.

[SportsWriter2]

Hurt so good.
Come on baby, make it hurt so good.
Sometimes love don't feel like it should.
You make it hurt so good.

[Adina]

If you watch porn you'd believe that 100% of women like to be slapped, choked, triple-penetrated, called whores, and take a load on their face. In reality, I think about 1% of women fall into that category. Yeah, BDSM has been with us for a while, live and let live and all that shit, but I can't help but wonder what happened in someone's childhood to make them like that stuff, and whether or not indulgence in it is really the most constructive way to come to terms with the past. That's why I couldn't be a dominatrix. I don't want to hurt people, even if they say they like it. Except for MP of course. I could hurt him, and like it.

When I was a kid, Debbie Gibson and Tiffany were the teen idols of the day. They seem downright chaste when you compare them to Britney and Christina. It makes you wonder, with the upping of the ante as to what is shocking and what isn't, what comes next? Amputation? Pedophilia? Ah, I think I am becoming a bit of reactionary in my old age (27)...

SW2, the link you posted is a website with HUNGARIAN teenagers getting fisted instead of Czech ones...still not my cup of tea. Amateur can sometimes yield surpises, yes, but by the time you get to them you're already sick from watching fat, hairy, sweaty ugs getting it on.

Oh, by the way MP, I was going to make you wear one of these anyway, so does the $100/hr. rate still apply?

[polecat]

I'm with Adina on this one. I find 99.9% of the porn unappealing and uninventive. I'm not so much appauled by the context or portrayal, I just find it so utterly boring and senseless that it ranks right up there with watching CSPAN or golf.

The men are usually pretty goofy looking, lick like they are painting a fence, and screw like a sewing machine. The dialogue is sappy, acting poor, lighting/camera work is amateur, continuity of scenes is normally broken and abrupt, etc. etc. I just don't see much value nor do I find it inducive of arousal.

SOME lesbian porn is almost acceptable, but then from a man's perspective, no amount of fantasy or displacement can occur from viewing of such.

And on BDSM- I have yet to see an adult/porn movie that even has the slightest correlation to this lifestyle. The whole mind-fuck and master->slave adoration is totally missing. It seems if you outfit a couple people in leather, ropes and gags and display flogging, you have a runaway smash porn BDSM hit. It's unfortunate that the entire arousing component of BDSM is totally devoid and missing.

I personally think a lot of the dysfunction in pornography stems from a backwards public ethic and censorship policy. While violence, death, and murder is allowed close to free expression- throw in some nudity, sex or intimacy and the ratings/censorship goes off the deep end. Parents can sit quietly with their children and watch someone on the big screen get impaled, yet when a woman climbs aboard a man to straddle for a softcore sex scene, discomfort usually ensues for the masses. I think if this ethic flips 180 degrees around, pornography would stand to see improvements as it's rougher/cheaper and more yawn-inspiring result I consider the effect of such a public dismissal of intimacy and the wonderful nature of sexual intimacy.

[Chuck149]

Adina, try making your own porn, It can be exciting to watch

[BigRed1970]

if I watch porn, it is mostly the amature stuff, most of that is just strait fucking with maybe some anal as a cap off, but the other best way to get just hot sex is to get find movies by big name porn stars, they cost more but are usually fairly uh, clean.... :o

[doc-catfish]

Adina, try making your own porn, It can be exciting to watch

I don't want to hurt people, even if they say they like it. Except for MP of course. I could hurt him, and like it.

Oh, by the way MP, I was going to make you wear one of these anyway, so does the $100/hr. rate still apply?

Hmm interesting. You know guys, I think Adina might need a crew to help assist with the movie. Maybe someone to help with lighting, a sound man, perhaps even a second camera for multiple angles. Maybe we could even help defer production costs by buying dances from her before the shoot.

Any volunteers? :

[mr_punk]

If you watch porn you'd believe that 100% of women like to be slapped, choked, triple-penetrated, called whores, and take a load on their face.

and if men actually believed porn, they would all become pizza deliver boys or pool cleaners. it's just a movie. if a fashion magazine represents a man's (or a woman's) idealized version of a woman's beauty. one of the characteristics that attracts men to porn is that it is a man's idealized version of a woman's sexuality. hence, the women in porn are either sexually agressive or sufficently submissive (or both) and enjoys sex for the sake of sex.

Yeah, BDSM has been with us for a while, live and let live and all that shit, but I can't help but wonder what happened in someone's childhood to make them like that stuff, and whether or not indulgence in it is really the most constructive way to come to terms with the past.

i don't dispute the idea that something may have happened in someone's childhood that attracts them to BDSM. we are all the sum of our experiences to a certain extent. however, that's not always the case. a common misconception about BDSM is that it is all about inflicting excruciating pain and it can be that if you want it, but pain doesn't have to be part of the experience. the basis of BDSM, IMHO, is D/s (Dominance and submission). D/s is a consensual exchange of power and BDSM are the tools of that exchange. while a lot of people may not have direct knowledge or experience in BDSM, they do engage in D/s or use elements of D/s, either unwittingly or to a lesser degree.

I admit, I like it rough sometimes, but when an FB ALWAYS wants to pull my hair, smack my ass, and come on my face, it gets really boring.

if a man had to name a common male fantasy he would probably say a menage a trois. OTOH, if a man had to name a common female fantasy the last thing they would probably think of is a rape fantasy, whether it is with one man or multiple partners. however, role-playing is pretty common in D/s.
for example, a woman is getting dressed. suddenly, she is seized by a masked man dressed in black and armed with a knife. he cuts off her clothes with the knife. he verbally threatens her, handles her roughly and physically (seemingly) forces her to perform sexual acts. one hour later, they order out for chinese food.
for a lot of people this would be considered kinky. however, i hardly think the act itself nessarilily means that something traumatic happened in their childhood. responsible adults who engage in BDSM or D/s always go thru a process of negotiation. basically, it's just talking to the other person to get a sense of their mental state, physical condition and sexual limits or boundaries. there is nothing worse than doing something during D/s or BDSM scene because you thought it might turn the other person on. so, while a woman might be turned on by being called a "cock-sucking whore". OTOH, she might not be so turned on, if you call her a "freckled cock-sucking whore" because you didn't take the time to find out, that she is sensitive about her freckles.

SW2, the link you posted is a website with HUNGARIAN teenagers getting fisted instead of Czech ones...still not my cup of tea. Amateur can sometimes yield surpises, yes, but by the time you get to them you're already sick from watching fat, hairy, sweaty ugs getting it on.

try this website. they have a number of videos that are produced by women (like 70's porn star Candida Royalle) and geared towards couples or women. they even carry the B.O.B series and some 70's golden age porn.

That's why I couldn't be a dominatrix. I don't want to hurt people, even if they say they like it. Except for MP of course. I could hurt him, and like it.

for some strange reason, i get that a lot from women (especially from my ex-wives), but stop it, you're making me blush.

Oh, by the way MP, I was going to make you wear one of these anyway, so does the $100/hr. rate still apply?

is that all? a ball gag and handcuffs. oh well, i suppose it could be worse. i suppose, i should be glad it isn't a bit and bridle or a ball stretcher a with 10 lb weight attachment. :o in any case, that would require me to shup up and not be an obnoxious asshole, which is costs extra. sorry, no discount for you.

[mr_punk]

I personally think a lot of the dysfunction in pornography stems from a backwards public ethic and censorship policy.

the MPAA isn't a censorship board. any porn producer can submit a film to the MPAA it would just be rated NC-17 (formerly the "X" rating), so why bother submitting a film. one of the reasons, the MPAA was created because when major studio films were released, they were subject to mandatory censorship under the Production Code and by state censorship boards. foreign (e.g. "sex education" films) and independent (e.g."roughies" and "nudie cuties") movies began to push the boundaries of the Production Code. they were profitable and the major studios hopped on the bandwagon. the MPAA was created as a compromise by the studios. any film can be submitted to the MPAA as long as the producer is willing to recieve an NC-17 rating. if not, then he has to tone down his content to get a lower rating. the film "Midnight Cowboy" (a really great film) was an "X" rated (or unrated by the MPAA) movie at the time of it's release. this was before people started to associate the "X" rating with porn films. ratings like "XX" and "XXX" are nothing more than a marketing gimmick by the porn industry. today, an NC-17 rating is the box office kiss of death. so, who do you blame? the MPAA can't stop the release of the film or force the producer to make cuts. however, if the public would actually support these films, then the studios would make more of them.

While violence, death, and murder is allowed close to free expression- throw in some nudity, sex or intimacy and the ratings/censorship goes off the deep end.

i agree. Jack Valenti (head of the MPAA) will probably tell you that parents are more likely to get upset over the amount of sex and nudity rather than the amount of violence. also, keep in mind that PG-13 movies are more profitable than R-rated movies. the film industry know this and markets to that demographic.

I think if this ethic flips 180 degrees around, pornography would stand to see improvements as it's rougher/cheaper and more yawn-inspiring result I consider the effect of such a public dismissal of intimacy and the wonderful nature of sexual intimacy.

i wouldn't hold my breath on putting that idea to the test. the MPAA is a powerful organization and lobbying group. a lot of people outside (including myself) and inside the movie industry may hate the organization, but i don't think they want to go back to the old days of the Production Code and state censorship boards, either.

[mr_punk]

Hmm interesting. You know guys, I think Adina might need a crew to help assist with the movie. Maybe someone to help with lighting, a sound man, perhaps even a second camera for multiple angles. Maybe we could even help defer production costs by buying dances from her before the shoot.

help her defer production costs by buying dances? well, it better be a lot of f#$*ing dances,buddy! what do i look like chopped f#$*ing liver! i am the star of this f#$*ing production and i better start getting some f#$*ing respect around here! i want a air-conditioned trailer with a plasma screen tv/satellite dish and a hot tub. i also want a personal assistant, a personal masseuse, a bowl of M&M's (red and green only), an unlimited supply of bottled water, a private jet for myself and my entourage, a case of expensive vintage wines and a big f#$*ing fruit basket. if my demands aren't met, you guys can talk to my f#$*ing agent.

[Adina]

You guys are too funny!

Seriously though, along the lines of what mr_punk and polecat were saying, I believe Jack Nicholson once said something like "Kiss a tit, get an X. Cut a tit off, get a PG-13."

Thanks for the link, mr_punk. I will check that out.

[SportsWriter2]

SW2, the link you posted is a website with HUNGARIAN teenagers getting fisted instead of Czech ones...still not my cup of tea

Adina, most of the models are American and European. I think their last model search was in Hungary. Liv, the production assistant, has a very small fist and she slides in slowly with lots of lubrication.

[Katrine]

Once you have opened Pandora's box, its hard to go back....

First porn I saw, I was 15, and it was a Swedish 70's porn, 2girls-1 guy, pretty basic frolicking...all stuff I've engaged in over the years....

By now, I have seen and done so much, if I'm not watching Belladonna get two cocks in her ass from Rocco and Max Hardcore, I'll just read Maxim or something.....

I don't know why, but I love the dirty and disguisting abusive porn....its like an accident and I can't stop rubbernecking....I don't think I was abused as a child, but there was definately some violence......just something very appealing about completely giving up power and control....like skydiving, or any other cheap thrill......

Maybe its the Eastern European thing...everyone keeps telling me all the ladies from my neck of the woods are completely uninhibited amoral sluts in the sack....meow!