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Thread: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    Careful FBR, most pros will charge extra for that...
    Methinks Plan B still needs some massaging.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by FBR View Post
    Methinks Plan B still needs some massaging.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    An update on my situation with my ATF.

    I've been overdue for a trip, and had finally resolved to stop being a chicken shit and pick up the phone to call her tonight and straighten out this friends or customer thing that has kept me out of the club since she brought it up at the end of June. In a bizarre coincidence I can't even believe, she texted me before I got home (first contact in weeks). Just a friendly bit of catching up, and I responded back in kind. Then I laid it out; I asked her if she was still thinking that she’d rather have me as a friend than a customer, or if I may stop in and see her sometime? I said I was happy with either, so whichever she prefers. Simple, easy, straight to the point, she can say “customer” and I can go back to hot VIPs, right? Wrong!

    Well it turns out my message was too long and didn’t go through. Great. Then the phone rings right away and it’s her. I was all nervous (as usual). “You didn’t finish your message!” So I stumble through trying to summarize it, she sounds a little confused, but she finally understands after I nervously rush through the explanation. She said she doesn't care which, and that we haven’t really done anything yet to establish a friendship (no shit, you keep flaking on me and I’m sick of it). She’s been busy and things have been crazy with her baby’s daddy. She said: “oh, well we can do both.” Ugh, for crying out loud! C’mon, I gave her an “out,” she doesn’t need to keep up the OTC bait, just…c’mon! I say that both will be kind of weird, and she suggests that I come see her at work…tonight. Well I’m not up for it right now, and suggest tomorrow or next week. She says great, and suggests we go to [a local event] on Sunday. *sigh* I made it so damned easy for her, but no.
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    An update on my situation with my ATF.
    Listen to the rappers man, she fuckin witchoo.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    There is nothing to make easy for her 'stat. She will play the SS until death. Just keep in mind, you are a CUSTOMER, and that's it. If you were a friend, she wouldn't have flaked on you. No matter what she says. So go get dances if you like them...

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    When you say you "made it easy" - like you made what easy? Nobody is making you keep calling the chick. If you like being a customer - great. But she seems pretty clearly not interested in being friends INSTEAD of customer/dancer. And as easy as you think it sounds - try this on: "Oh... so you want me to choose between being friendly with you and having you spend money on me... hmm, I think I'm going to have to go with the cash." Try saying that to some poor schmuk who is nervously stammering through his pitch, and then tell me that it's easy. So your initial idea of pursuing a wholly non-financial relationship is toasted - you don't really need her to staple a memo in triplicate onto your forehead, do you?
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    "...no shit, you keep flaking on me and I’m sick of it..."
    For your sake state, I hope you really truly are sick of it, enough so that you'll listen to your big head and move on...

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    She’s been busy and things have been crazy with her baby’s daddy.
    etc., etc., etc., really, bro, you don't want this crazy shit in your life, I mean like really really REALLY you don't.

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    God/dess lestat1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Jenny, actually, I kind of do. But I understand that she has no way of knowing that I'm the sort of poor schmuck who does, as opposed to the ones who would stop being customers if she were that blunt with them. By that I mean that when I told her I was happy with either, I was being sincere. Friends would be nice and expand my circle of friends which is close but small, and business is hot dances. Both are good.

    I just realized that I'm *assuming* she's going to continue the OTC SS. She may stop and we can let it simply slip into memory. That would actually be ideal at this point, if it just stopped and we kept it strictly business and fun ITC (as opposed to that + BS). I'll know more after tomorrow night.

    By "make it easy:" I mean it takes work and effort for her to do the phone calls, "maintenance," keep coming up with excuses why she can't meet, etc. right? At that moment, she may have felt like she was in a pickle but in the long run isn't it so much easier to just have me happy to go in, pay her, and get dances? I've never called her first, only responded or called back.


    EDIT: Jenny, is there a way I could have phrased it better? I know several pages back when I was discussing my ATF and I, you had mentioned flat out asking her about the friends versus customer thing as a resolution. Is there a way this could have been easier for both of us?
    Last edited by lestat1; 08-08-2007 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Forgot something
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    "My Opinion", is that you're wasting your time pursuing an OTC relationship. Keep it in the club and don't even talk about taking it OTC. You might get OTC, but you'll probably regret it. You’ll have to find a different club then. No matter how good the pussy might be, at some point you'll get sick of her shit. When it’s an exchange of service for money, you’ll have less guilt about moving on in the club to a different dancer. I fucked up a good time in the club by talking about OTC activities to a dancer that I had no intentions of fulfilling and when I got called on it, I disappeared. I guess I when the flaky route.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Lestat, if she valued friendship with you more than the money then she would have come through by now. If she "flaked out" once on you then that may have been legitimate. If it has happenned more than once, then it is just SS. If she wanted to have more than a business relationship she would make the effort in her personal life to make that happen. That has not happenned. How long as this "OTC friendship carrot been dangling out there?

    Given the context of how you have stated things on this site then there is no way she does not understand what you were trying to explain (regardiing OTC vs. ITC). No matter how much you stammered while saying it (unless she is not very smart, but I will giver her the benefit of the doubt) she knows what you are saying.

    You seem like a nice guy. Take some control for your own good. You cannot control her, but you can control yourself. Don't waste time beating yourself up over this situation. It is not worth it brother. If you like her as a dancer then ignore the texts and phone calls and show up to the club when you are in the mood to spend some time with her and money on her. If you lose that feeling then drop the business relationship completely.

    That is just my two cents. Good luck and take care.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    When you say you "made it easy" - like you made what easy? Nobody is making you keep calling the chick.
    Exactly.

    Move forward, dude. You're engaging in drama with no ROI.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Stat -

    I think you have to ask yourself what you want in this situation. If you want an OTC friendship, tell her that and resolve yourself to no more dances either way. If she says yes, the dances will be awkward because you are legitimately friends. If she says no, the dances will be awkward because your desire for something else will still be there. She knows that, that's why she is procrastinating. The "out" I see that you are giving her is the option to not make a decision and keep dangling that carrot in front of you. That's the only "out" you are providing her.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    By "make it easy:" I mean it takes work and effort for her to do the phone calls, "maintenance," keep coming up with excuses why she can't meet, etc. right? At that moment, she may have felt like she was in a pickle but in the long run isn't it so much easier to just have me happy to go in, pay her, and get dances? I've never called her first, only responded or called back.
    Yes, in the long run it is easier... but... it's also incredibly awkward to tell someone - especially someone you've led on - that you just don't really like them and you just want their money. Have you never had to do this? Like, not this exactly, but something like it?

    Okay. You've had your answer. I know you don't want it, I know it's not the answer you wanted or were hoping for - and yet. there it is. Out there. She already said that she doesn't want to give you up as a customer. She said that between the two, she wants you as a customer. It's there. It's said. It's out. You've heard it. It's been laid down. Now you just have to accept it. I know that bem thinks he's stripper catnip, but I really wouldn't count on her suddenly "really" liking you if you just cut off the money after she's said that she would prefer to have you as a customer than a friend. Like if a regular asked me out and I said I would prefer to keep it professional and then he thought "aha! I will simply remove the professional component - then she will have no choice!" - I mean, he would certainly have the option of not buying dances from me anymore, but it really, definitely, certainly would not make me go out with him.

    So if you would still enjoy her professional services, enjoy them. If you wouldn't - don't. But the issue is gone.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I know that bem thinks he's stripper catnip, but I really wouldn't count on her suddenly "really" liking you if you just cut off the money after she's said that she would prefer to have you as a customer than a friend. Like if a regular asked me out and I said I would prefer to keep it professional and then he thought "aha! I will simply remove the professional component - then she will have no choice!" - I mean, he would certainly have the option of not buying dances from me anymore, but it really, definitely, certainly would not make me go out with him.

    So if you would still enjoy her professional services, enjoy them. If you wouldn't - don't. But the issue is gone.
    Well, if she told him she'd rather he be a customer than a friend, he has his answer, but I don't recall that phrasing in anything he wrote.

    And Jenny, my post didn't mention money once and you turned this into a money thing.

    The dances ought to end after her decision for one of 2 reasons:
    1. They become friends IRL and the dances thus become awkward;
    2. She refuses to become friends IRL, in which case he'd be reminded of that (even if the dances were free) every time he danced with her..

    Ending the dances has nothing to do with punishing her and everything to do with not punishing himself if what he really wants is something more than some hot dances.

    If he really isn't bothered by the fact that she has rejected him as a friend IRL , then obviously he is free to continue enjoying her professional services.

    In any event it seems he is weary of her indecisiveness and that seems to be what he is really complaining about.
    "never trust a big butt and a smile"-- Bell Biv DeVoe

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by bem401 View Post
    Well, if she told him she'd rather he be a customer than a friend, he has his answer, but I don't recall that phrasing in anything he wrote.
    Well when he told her that he would like to be friends and would feel awkward being her customer she said that she didn't know what to do with that, that they didn't really have a friendship and that "maybe they could do both". She clearly has no interest in giving him up as a customer.
    And Jenny, my post didn't mention money once and you turned this into a money thing.
    Okay... well then let's just pretend that the fact that he pays her for dances has no relevance.

    The dances ought to end after her decision for one of 2 reasons:
    1. They become friends IRL and the dances thus become awkward;
    2. She refuses to become friends IRL, in which case he'd be reminded of that (even if the dances were free) every time he danced with her.
    Well. That's you, not him. He already said that he would like to retain her professional services even if no relationship surfaced. He said that many times, clearly. I also said that if he didn't want her professional services he shouldn't get them. I will, however, flatter him by acting like he knows what he wants better than I do. In any case - his situation and he is free to take your advice, my advice, neither or some combination of the two. I am merely suggesting that removing himself as her customer in an effort to cultivate a friendship will not likely be effective.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    She said she doesn't care which, and that we haven’t really done anything yet to establish a friendship (no shit, you keep flaking on me and I’m sick of it). She’s been busy and things have been crazy with her baby’s daddy. She said: “oh, well we can do both.” Ugh, for crying out loud!
    LOL..she's funny. still, don't you think your expectations of her were just a wee bit too high? i mean, you wouldn't expect dullard to give you a coherent answer about the therory of relativity, would you? so, why would you expect a straight answer from a flaky stripper?
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    There is nothing to make easy for her 'stat. She will play the SS until death. Just keep in mind, you are a CUSTOMER, and that's it.
    that's true. as a general rule, whenever a stripper professes to be something other than a source of amusement or distraction like an organ-grinder's monkey. watch out! it's about to get very, very deep.
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Wow, am I glad I went through all of this BS ten years ago and got it over with....
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Thanks to everyone for their replies. As I've said before I always listen to advice, then combine it with what I know and decide what to do.

    Jenny,
    I carefully avoided ever expressing a preference to her regarding customer versus friend. I said I would be fine with either one, but that "both" would be awkward. The truth, if I'm really honest with myself, puts my preferences like so:

    (1) Friends with possibility of "more"
    (2) Professional relationship
    (3) Just friends

    with (1) being way in the lead, and (2) and (3) very close.

    A month ago I thought (1) and (3) had a one-in-a-million, and one-in-a-thousand chance, respectively. After a month of her flakiness and the advice on here, I think they're basically zero.

    So what do I want? (2) with no more OTC-carrot-dangling from her, and no awkwardness due to either of us having to be rude to the other. How to get it? Head ITC tonight, get some great VIP dances, and politely decline any other offer. I suspect in time she'll stop asking to hang out OTC.

    Sounds simple, stay tuned to see how it goes/went...


    (If nothing else, I got to discuss drama for several pages, which is more excitement than I usually have! LOL)
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    SS is easy to spread, its like warm smooth creamy peanut butter. She'll continue the OTC SS because she knows that once she tells you there's no chance, you'll stop coming in and spending money on her. And you will....

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post

    (If nothing else, I got to discuss drama for several pages, which is more excitement than I usually have! LOL)
    Stat, your drama is always fun to read I have to agree with the majority of the posters that if forced to choose, she will choose the money over "friendship". Considering the quality of her dances, I don't think she has short changed you and really, it's a pain in the ass to find a dancer who will consistently deliver as promised ITC. So if you truly are acceptant of that, you should be able to pick it up from there.

    FBR
    Last edited by FBR; 08-09-2007 at 05:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by FBR View Post
    it's a pain in the ass to find a dancer who will consistently deliver as promised ITC.
    FBR
    Amen to that.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    SS is easy to spread, its like warm smooth creamy peanut butter.
    And guys will eat it right out of the jar in big spoonfuls.

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Day-um I had a great VIP!

    Katrine was right, my ATF is going to keep up the SS until death. She brought her A-game to the VIP, and she brought the SS to obscene levels. Get your popcorn out; LOL!

    I just posted it to the trip reports thread, enjoy:
    http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/sho...64#post1165864
    Quote Originally Posted by _Avery_ View Post
    omg, why is it so huge?!! lol lol

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Lestat,

    I have enjoyed reading about your quandry. I had a very similar experience with my ATF 10-12 yrs ago. I had seen her a few times when she suggested we meet for lunch; she even gave a specific date, time, and place. And, I fell for it - hook, line, and sinker; just like you did. The only smart thing I did was to give her my number and refuse hers. I told her - "Call me if you really want to do this; I won't show up if I don't hear from you." I cleared my calendar for Wed lunch and I was as anxious as a kid at Christmas.

    She never called. I went back a month or so later - same proposition, almost verbatim. Still, no call. It took a half dozen times for me to realize that it was just better SS than I had ever been subjected to before. After that, I answered with the best CS that I could muster - "Instead of Chinese, why don't we have a picnic? I'll bring everything including wine and we can spend the afternoon together." I proposed gourmet lunches at expensive restaurants and anything else I could imagine. It became a challenge to come up with new and even more lavish lunch date than the time before. I knew that it never was going to happen - and so did she. It continued until she retired many years later. I miss her.

    You have gotten good advice here. Enjoy the dances and take the SS for what it is.

    slcdon

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    Default Re: Outside the Club (aka "The Holy Grail")

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdon View Post
    The only smart thing I did was to give her my number and refuse hers. I told her - "Call me if you really want to do this; I won't show up if I don't hear from you."
    You know what, that's brilliant!

    I've jousted with several dancers over the years about OTC possibilities, and have wallowed in the temporary ego rush of them giving me their phone number. One in particular said she wanted to meet for breakfast, and to call her so I could pick her up. I made a complete fool of myself calling, no answer, calling, no answer-leave message, calling, no answer-leave another message, calling, sounding unbelievably desperate I'm sure. It would have been much smarter to just not have her number and put the ball in her court to call me. The only problem is that she was so freakin hot that I would probably still be sitting in that booth waiting for her call!

    Of course I'm much wiser now and would never fall for such glorious SS!
    Last edited by azdd; 08-10-2007 at 12:27 AM.

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