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Thread: Double Standard - Take 2

  1. #26
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Nah, that's not a perfect world. A world where anyone is being controlled is imperfect. By the SO telling you what they want you to do, and you abiding by that, you are restrained, and therefore, it is an imperfect situation. The women are doing the same god damn thing Darren. They are doing things they don't want you to know and then lying about it, or not telling it. Wouldn't it be perfect if none of us had to lie about it? All this is is allowing more control over one another, which leads to more imperfection. Restrained people are unhappy, people who lie would rather not. Eventually, if you restrain a person from what they want for so long, they will run. It's as imperfect as it gets.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25569#msg25569 date=1091315979
    Like I said before, if you have a mate you have to lie to because they wouldn't approve of something you do, then you need to find someone else you can be honest with. Why don't you all come clean and just say "Hey, I go to sc, I get lap dances." and give all the details. If they dont' like it, show them the fucking door. You'll be surprised at how free and alive you feel, because you aren't being controlled by another person or by the lies you tell.
    I'll take a guess at why they don't.

    First, a lot guys really love their SOs, but they also want to have their cake and eat it to. They really don't want to show their SO the door, but nor do they want to give up going to the SCs. Such is life. I am not saying it is right, but not every guy is in a rush to break up with their SOs.

    Second, don't take this the wrong way, but you are still a young, attractive woman. You have a lot of options about who you can hook up with, but a lot of guys have a much harder time finding someone they can have sex with. While you may have the option of booting an SO and finding a replacement, for a lot of guys that is going to mean no SO (and little or no sex) for a long time. I am not saying it is right, but there it is. Again, the guys aren't anxious to lose what they have, but they want their cake and eat it too.

    And now just to be facitious...

    I mean wouldn't it be a perfect world if men were just honest with their SOs and didn't use escorts or strippers? I am sure a lot of SOs would love that world. Too bad for the escorts and strippers though, most of them would be out of work. But it would be perfect

    And yes, I am just being facitious



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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25573#msg25573 date=1091317778
    Nah, that's not a perfect world. A world where anyone is being controlled is imperfect. By the SO telling you what they want you to do, and you abiding by that, you are restrained, and therefore, it is an imperfect situation. The women are doing the same god damn thing Darren. They are doing things they don't want you to know and then lying about it, or not telling it. Wouldn't it be perfect if none of us had to lie about it? All this is is allowing more control over one another, which leads to more imperfection. Restrained people are unhappy, people who lie would rather not. Eventually, if you restrain a person from what they want for so long, they will run. It's as imperfect as it gets.
    One problem with this definition is that people also want the right not to have to disclose everything. The old, "I have a right to have my own life" attitude. So then is it lying if you don't disclose all?

    In the end though it just a bunch of people with various wants and needs coming up with a set of compromises that work for both. That is not likely to change, so I'd still like to ask the question in that context.

    What is more important to the dancers?

    Their income?

    or

    Honest customers?

  4. #29
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Read my above two posts... I added some to the first one, Darren. It seems that what you think is right is based on what you want. It's ok to lie about going to an sc, but it's not ok to lie about working at one???? And, you want your cake and eat it too, eh? How would you like to find out your SO is doing the same damn thing? The Chippendales are in town this week.... who do you think goes to those reviews Darren? And since it is so much easier for a woman to cheat than a man, what makes you so sure your SO isn't hitting it somewhere as we speak? Dude, you are WAYYYY too sure of your relationship. Wake up, life isn't about the men having their cake and eating it too anymore, buddy. Women are cheating in record numbers. Your SO is probably too busy having fun out somewhere to be worried about your visit to the sc. How does your little perfect world feel now bud?

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25575#msg25575 date=1091318279
    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25573#msg25573 date=1091317778
    Nah, that's not a perfect world. A world where anyone is being controlled is imperfect. By the SO telling you what they want you to do, and you abiding by that, you are restrained, and therefore, it is an imperfect situation. The women are doing the same god damn thing Darren. They are doing things they don't want you to know and then lying about it, or not telling it. Wouldn't it be perfect if none of us had to lie about it? All this is is allowing more control over one another, which leads to more imperfection. Restrained people are unhappy, people who lie would rather not. Eventually, if you restrain a person from what they want for so long, they will run. It's as imperfect as it gets.
    One problem with this definition is that people also want the right not to have to disclose everything. The old, "I have a right to have my own life" attitude. So then is it lying if you don't disclose all?

    In the end though it just a bunch of people with various wants and needs coming up with a set of compromises that work for both. That is not likely to change, so I'd still like to ask the question in that context.

    What is more important to the dancers?

    Their income?

    or

    Honest customers?
    It's lying if your wife would consider it cheating. If she is aware that you go and what goes on there, then why would you have to give every detail? Yes, it is a compromise. A compromise should be based on facts and fairness, not lies. Lying is not compromising. Lying is saying, "hey, I'm going to do this, but I don't feel comfortable enough to tell you because I'm chickenshit that you won't approve and you'll leave me." also, "I won't tell you, because I'm afraid you will start going out and having fun too, and then leave me." WIMP! I am who I am, and if a guy doesn't like it, they can stick it. I am liberated, you are a scared, miserable liar.

  6. #31
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Kittie your perfect world with me going to clubs with my wife doesnt fit your mold. No way Jose. I'll post more later

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25576#msg25576 date=1091318410
    Read my above two posts... I added some to the first one, Darren. It seems that what you think is right is based on what you want. It's ok to lie about going to an sc, but it's not ok to lie about working at one???? And, you want your cake and eat it too, eh? How would you like to find out your SO is doing the same damn thing? The Chippendales are in town this week.... who do you think goes to those reviews Darren? And since it is so much easier for a woman to cheat than a man, what makes you so sure your SO isn't hitting it somewhere as we speak? Dude, you are WAYYYY too sure of your relationship. Wake up, life isn't about the men having their cake and eating it too anymore, buddy. Women are cheating in record numbers. Your SO is probably too busy having fun out somewhere to be worried about your visit to the sc. How does your little perfect world feel now bud?
    Erotic, you mis-interpreted what I wrote. Let me try to clear it up.

    I don't "approve" of the lying, but I also accept that people do lie. But I don't think lying is the ultimate sin either. I don't like it, but it happens.

    And yes I agreed with you in the posting. You were right on. But I also understood why Brandys did what she did. I think she f*cked up, but then people fuck up.

    I am not siding with the customers.

    Nor I am siding with the dancers.

    Nor do I think I should receive special treatment.

    Yes, women do/have been cheating in record numbers.

    Yes, my SO has cheated and lied about. Yes, I was too fucking stupid to see it at the time. But that is one negative vs a lot of positives. She has a good heart. She is truly kind. She listens and treats me well. I still love her, and got over it once I accepted that 1.) She isn't perfect. 2.) I am not perfect and I contributed in some ways to her straying. 3.) I am not going to find a perfect woman, people aren't perfect, but I have a damn good one.

    So back to the question,

    What is more important to strippers, your income or honest customers? There is no 3rd utopian world choice allowed




  8. #33
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25580#msg25580 date=1091319481
    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25576#msg25576 date=1091318410
    Read my above two posts... I added some to the first one, Darren. It seems that what you think is right is based on what you want. It's ok to lie about going to an sc, but it's not ok to lie about working at one???? And, you want your cake and eat it too, eh? How would you like to find out your SO is doing the same damn thing? The Chippendales are in town this week.... who do you think goes to those reviews Darren? And since it is so much easier for a woman to cheat than a man, what makes you so sure your SO isn't hitting it somewhere as we speak? Dude, you are WAYYYY too sure of your relationship. Wake up, life isn't about the men having their cake and eating it too anymore, buddy. Women are cheating in record numbers. Your SO is probably too busy having fun out somewhere to be worried about your visit to the sc. How does your little perfect world feel now bud?
    Erotic, you mis-interpreted what I wrote. Let me try to clear it up.

    I don't "approve" of the lying, but I also accept that people do lie. But I don't think lying is the ultimate sin either. I don't like it, but it happens.

    And yes I agreed with you in the posting. You were right on. But I also understood why Brandys did what she did. I think she f*cked up, but then people fuck up.

    I am not siding with the customers.

    Nor I am siding with the dancers.

    Nor do I think I should receive special treatment.

    Yes, women do/have been cheating in record numbers.

    Yes, my SO has cheated and lied about. Yes, I was too fucking stupid to see it at the time. But that is one negative vs a lot of positives. She has a good heart. She is truly kind. She listens and treats me well. I still love her, and got over it once I accepted that 1.) She isn't perfect. 2.) I am not perfect and I contributed in some ways to her straying. 3.) I am not going to find a perfect woman, people aren't perfect, but I have a damn good one.

    So back to the question,

    What is more important to strippers, your income or honest customers? There is no 3rd utopian world choice allowed



    Darren,

    What do you do for a living?

    I gotcha now.... so what you said here is, "it's ok for you to cheat, i will forgive you if you stray" to her. All is well I suppose, since you have BOTH agreed that it's ok to cheat and lie.



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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25578#msg25578 date=1091319176
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25575#msg25575 date=1091318279
    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25573#msg25573 date=1091317778
    Nah, that's not a perfect world. A world where anyone is being controlled is imperfect. By the SO telling you what they want you to do, and you abiding by that, you are restrained, and therefore, it is an imperfect situation. The women are doing the same god damn thing Darren. They are doing things they don't want you to know and then lying about it, or not telling it. Wouldn't it be perfect if none of us had to lie about it? All this is is allowing more control over one another, which leads to more imperfection. Restrained people are unhappy, people who lie would rather not. Eventually, if you restrain a person from what they want for so long, they will run. It's as imperfect as it gets.
    One problem with this definition is that people also want the right not to have to disclose everything. The old, "I have a right to have my own life" attitude. So then is it lying if you don't disclose all?

    In the end though it just a bunch of people with various wants and needs coming up with a set of compromises that work for both. That is not likely to change, so I'd still like to ask the question in that context.

    What is more important to the dancers?

    Their income?

    or

    Honest customers?
    It's lying if your wife would consider it cheating. If she is aware that you go and what goes on there, then why would you have to give every detail? Yes, it is a compromise. A compromise should be based on facts and fairness, not lies. Lying is not compromising. Lying is saying, "hey, I'm going to do this, but I don't feel comfortable enough to tell you because I'm chickenshit that you won't approve and you'll leave me." also, "I won't tell you, because I'm afraid you will start going out and having fun too, and then leave me." WIMP! I am who I am, and if a guy doesn't like it, they can stick it. I am liberated, you are a scared, miserable liar.
    It sounds like lying is a big/key issue with you.

    It use to be with me, but for whatever reasons I've come to accept that people lie, yes even to those they love. It's just not the end of the world to me. I don't like it, but I don't have nightmares about it either. It is what it is.

    People are all about mixed emotions, mixed wants, mixed needs. Sometimes they lie, but that doesn't invalidate the entire person. Even people that lie can have a lot of good traits and I try to see the big picture when I evaluate a person.



  10. #35
    God/dess erotictonic's Avatar
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25582#msg25582 date=1091319842
    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25578#msg25578 date=1091319176
    Quote Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25575#msg25575 date=1091318279
    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25573#msg25573 date=1091317778
    Nah, that's not a perfect world. A world where anyone is being controlled is imperfect. By the SO telling you what they want you to do, and you abiding by that, you are restrained, and therefore, it is an imperfect situation. The women are doing the same god damn thing Darren. They are doing things they don't want you to know and then lying about it, or not telling it. Wouldn't it be perfect if none of us had to lie about it? All this is is allowing more control over one another, which leads to more imperfection. Restrained people are unhappy, people who lie would rather not. Eventually, if you restrain a person from what they want for so long, they will run. It's as imperfect as it gets.
    One problem with this definition is that people also want the right not to have to disclose everything. The old, "I have a right to have my own life" attitude. So then is it lying if you don't disclose all?

    In the end though it just a bunch of people with various wants and needs coming up with a set of compromises that work for both. That is not likely to change, so I'd still like to ask the question in that context.

    What is more important to the dancers?

    Their income?

    or

    Honest customers?
    It's lying if your wife would consider it cheating. If she is aware that you go and what goes on there, then why would you have to give every detail? Yes, it is a compromise. A compromise should be based on facts and fairness, not lies. Lying is not compromising. Lying is saying, "hey, I'm going to do this, but I don't feel comfortable enough to tell you because I'm chickenshit that you won't approve and you'll leave me." also, "I won't tell you, because I'm afraid you will start going out and having fun too, and then leave me." WIMP! I am who I am, and if a guy doesn't like it, they can stick it. I am liberated, you are a scared, miserable liar.
    It sounds like lying is a big/key issue with you.

    It use to be with me, but for whatever reasons I've come to accept that people lie, yes even to those they love. It's just not the end of the world to me. I don't like it, but I don't have nightmares about it either. It is what it is.

    People are all about mixed emotions, mixed wants, mixed needs. Sometimes they lie, but that doesn't invalidate the entire person. Even people that lie can have a lot of good traits and I try to see the big picture when I evaluate a person.


    '

    I see where you are coming from.... lying and cheating is acceptable to the two of you, which if that's what works for you, so be it. I simply believe in equality.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25581#msg25581 date=1091319819
    What do you do for a living?

    I gotcha now.... so what you said here is, "it's ok for you to cheat, i will forgive you if you stray" to her. All is well I suppose, since you have BOTH agreed that it's ok to cheat and lie.
    If she wants to go chippendales I really couldn't care less. In fact I encourage her to go... she says she doesn't want to but I really don't care if she goes just so long as it doesn't become an expensive habit. And she has gone a couple of times with her friends - woohoo!!

    No, it is not okay if she goes on cheating, but nor does that invalidate her entire life or our entire relationship. We get some scars along the way sometimes. Doesn't mean we want more scars but we don't commit suicide and throw our whole lives away because of a bad scar. Same with relationships - when you throw them away you are also throwing away the good things.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Regardless of what any of you fucked-up-in-the-head men have to say, LYING IS NOT LOVE. LYING IS HATE. If you lie to your wives, you can't possibly "love" them, nor respect them. Anyone who cheats has absolutely no respect for the one they are cheating on, or they would care enough not to make them look like a god damn fool.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25585#msg25585 date=1091324089
    Regardless of what any of you fucked-up-in-the-head men have to say, LYING IS NOT LOVE. LYING IS HATE. If you lie to your wives, you can't possibly "love" them, nor respect them. Anyone who cheats has absolutely no respect for the one they are cheating on, or they would care enough not to make them look like a god damn fool.
    So back to the original question (reworded once more below)

    If strippers (and escorts) are making most of their money off men/women who don't tell their SOs (aka lie about), is it wrong that strippers/escorts make their living selling sexual stimulation to customers that lie? What is more important to strippers/escorts, their income, or would they really rather have all customers stop lying about it (even if that means their income would take a major dive).



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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Darren,

    Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer to the question you've posed a number of times....its basically the entire point of my original posting on this topic...and the one thing no stripper/dancer/entertainer wants to think about.

    From all of the responses I've read, they'd rather talk about how what they offer is as innocent as cell-phone service, to why "fucked up in the head men" are replying with them....they can't face the basic fact that what they do ENCOURAGES the very behavior they claim is 'fucked up." They are willingly accepting $$$ (and trying hard to get it, if they're doing their job!) from men that are lying/cheating/whatever with their SO. They NEED this kind of guy to survive. I'm sure if they think about it too hard, it will burst their little bubble of innocence.

    Its so silly, but rather than answer your question, certain 'entertainers' would rather branch off and attack you, Darren, and your awful lying ways, rather than face the real issue at hand. Doesn't take a psychology major to see the denial at work here.

    So...don't expect any answers to that question...they know they answer, they just don't want to be honest with us, or more importantly, themselves.
    Nobodys perfect. Well, there was this one guy, but we killed him.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mobius7 link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25590#msg25590 date=1091364419
    Darren,

    Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer to the question you've posed a number of times....its basically the entire point of my original posting on this topic...and the one thing no stripper/dancer/entertainer wants to think about.
    Yea, I understood your original question very well. And I agree, probably not going to get an answer to the question. I think it is a fair one, but I understand why no answer will be coming. It is painfully hard to see oneself as entangled/perpetuating the things you disapprove of. We all do it, but it is hard to see when we are doing it (e.g., we benefit from inexpensivegoods at the expense of others).





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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25585#msg25585 date=1091324089
    Regardless of what any of you fucked-up-in-the-head men have to say, LYING IS NOT LOVE. LYING IS HATE. If you lie to your wives, you can't possibly "love" them, nor respect them. Anyone who cheats has absolutely no respect for the one they are cheating on, or they would care enough not to make them look like a god damn fool.
    I dunno. I suspect that many people who love (there's degrees of love) and yet who lie (and there's degrees of lying) look upon it as either love or hate. They look upon it as a situational convenience that isn't intended to be slathered over the whole relationship.

    A lot of people's happiness and love isn't an on-off switch - if you do one thing, it's love - another, and it's hate. Rather, their happiness and love is a balancing act. If the balance falls consistently on the side of preserving the love aspects of their marriage, they tend to stay together. But it doesn't mean that the balance falls that way solidly every time.


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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    OK since you have worked so god damn dilligently to shove us into a corner, Darren, and you too mobius, I will answer your RIDICULOUS rhetorical question.

    As I have said countless times on this inane board full of fucked-up-in-the-head men like mobius who are so far gone that they can't even see reality anymore, and it is rather POINTLESS to answer the RIDICULOUS question anyway, EVERYONE DOES BUSINESS WITH PEOPLE THAT THEY DON'T AGREE WITH MORALLY!!!!!!!!!!
    YOU GOT THAT ????????????????
    EVERYONE! NOT JUST ME, NOT JUST YOU.

    SO STOP TRYING TO PUSH US INTO A CORNER.... NO I DON'T AGREE THAT A BUNCH OF GOD DAMN LIARS ARE CORRECT TO BE DOING SO AND I NEVER, EVER WILL, SO STOP TRYING TO RATIONALIZE AND DENY... YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! END OF FUCKING STORY!

    As for the question at hand, HELL FUCKING YES I would rather people be honest than do business with me.... If my money was gone, I would just change jobs. Money means about as much to me as nothing, that's why I haven't made one red fucking cent in two years. Regardless of what mobius says, I DON'T need PLs to pay my fucking rent.... I haven't danced in 5 years... I had a 9 to 5. Yes, I put the state of the world before everything else and always will. I believe in peace, love, and happiness, and freedom, and that includes HONESTY. I do business in an honest way, I never lie to customers, and I expect the fucking same from them. But I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT THEY DO IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES. JUST LIKE I COULDN'T IF I WERE SELLING CLOTHES TO PSYCHOPATHS AT JC PENNEY. DO I LIKE THEM OR WHAT THEY DO??? HELL NO! BUT I CAN'T CONTROL WHAT THEY DO! AM I SUPPOSED TO NOT SELL THEM A SHIRT BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THEM? HELL NO! SAME FUCKING SITUATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU CAN'T AVOID GOD DAMN LIARS NO MATTER WHAT!!!!!! END OF FUCKING STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'M TIRED OF BEING BLAMED FOR SOMETHING I CAN'T CONTROL.... IF YOU WANNA LIE, I CAN'T FUCKING STOP YOU, SO STOP BLAMING ME! I PROVIDE A SERVICE, YOU BUY IT. I CAN'T HELP IT IF YOUR FUCKING WIFE DOESN'T KNOW IT, JUST LIKE I COUDLN'T HELP IT IF I SOLD YOU A SHIRT AT JCPENNEY THAT YOU GAVE TO YOUR GF BEHIND YOUR WIFE'S BACK. I STILL CONTRIBUTED TO THE BULLSHIT.... IT DOESN'T MATTER... PEOPLE THAT DO SHIT I DON'T AGREE WITH ARE EVERY FUCKING WHERE! IF I TRIED TO DO SOMETHING WHERE I DIDN'T COME IN CONTACT WITH THEM I WOULD HAVE TO CLIMB IN A FUCKING HOLE.

    IF YOU FEEL BAD BECAUSE YOU ARE A LIAR AND YOU ARE TRYING TO RATIONALIZE AND DENY, MAKE EXCUSES AND POINT THE FINGER AT US, GET THE FUCK OVER IT!!!!!!! NO ONE MADE YOU LIE BUT YOU!!!!!!!!! LIVE WITH IT YOU FUCKING LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And i don't have to agree wiht you or like you if you lie.... I don't like liars of any sort and I never, ever will.

    So i guess I am encouraging shoplifting and overspending if I work at JC Penneys, right mobius, or I am encouraging alcoholism if I work at Wal-mart where they sell beer.... Sorry, but your logic just doesn't make ANY sense!!! Don't you see, anything can be abused.... ANYTHING! But just because we work in a business it is NOT saying that we are encouraging abuse! "Please come in JC Penney and buy your gf a bunch of clothes on your credit card behind your wife's back." "Please come in Wal-mart everyday and buy a twelve pack so the store can make money and I can get paid." "Please come in Rick's behind your wife's back, and spend $300 on me so I can pay my rent." I wouldn't think ANY of these things if I worked at any of these places! I think they are all wrong, but if I'm employed in any of these places, according to your logic, I am ENCOURAGING this behavior! Can I stop ANY of these people for making the decisions they make? HELL NO, but I DON'T have to agree with their actions, and I DON'T.

    END OF FUCKING STORY. YOU FUCKING LOSE, mobius, AS USUAL.

    There, now I feel better about that problem I had.... lol.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Erotic, we understand that you have strong hatred of liars ... we got it ... but please chill with the self righteousness. I can go find you some bible thumpers that will get all self righteous on your ass about being a stripper, or even more so on the escorts (who also just provide a service). Or they will get self righteous on you about your life style, or whatever. I am sure in their mind being a sexual temptress is the worst sin on the planet, while in yours being a liar is.

    I am sure you have never ever lied to anyone... all of the rest of liars will go to liar hell and we won't see you there right because the only people that don't go are those who have never ever lied to anyone. We will miss you.

    Basically your answer is you would give up the money, which is fine, though you aren't dancing anymore either so it is easier to say I don't care when your livelyhood doesn't depend on the income.




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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    I don't hate anyone... except some people who have personally fucked me over. Where do you get that I am being self-righteous? Did I tell anyone they were going to hell? NADA. Ummm, I am just retorting to mobius'es and a few other hateful posts. I don't hate liars, but I sure am not willing to take the blame for their bullshit. Lying is FAR from being the worst sin on the planet, but I sure as hell am not taking the blame for someone else's lies either. You are the ones who have to rationalize and deny and point the finger at us to make your lying, cheating selves feel better about being fucking scumbags. Face it. I am NOT judging anyone saying they are going to hell. I am NOT being self-righteous, and sure I have lied, when I was much younger. But I am NOT willing to lie to someone on a continual basis to make myself appear to be someone I'm not, which is what you guys are doing. That is being a con artist. And yes, I think anyone with half a conscience will agree that it is wrong. Yes, I may be a whore and whatever else by someone's definition, but I am not hurting or conning anyone else.

    I am dancing. I returned to the biz after a 5 year hiatus.

    How about you Darren? If you had the choice, would you take less pay to know that the people you are dealing with in business are honest?

    I can see you really got the gist of my post Darren. As usual. All you did was continue to point the finger. Wake up and smell the coffee. Brush up on your reading comprehension skills please.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622
    Where do you get that I am being self-righteous?
    Your posting came across that way - you don't lie, so you are perfect. We do so we are worthless men (or whatever).

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622
    Did I tell anyone they were going to hell?
    I was just being facitious because you were coming across as holier than thou, the sinless one.

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622

    but I sure as hell am not taking the blame for someone else's lies either.
    You are taking the question personally, and getting defensive. It isn't a question about blaiming you.

    When the guys lie about going to a SC they aren't blaiming you or the other dancers for providing a service. The question was about a double standard. Not are you to blaim for men who lie, but is it a double standard for a dancer/escort to claim she hates lying men on the one hand, while making most of her living off those very same men on the other.


    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622

    and sure I have lied, when I was much younger.
    Okay, well then what can I say. You are more advanced in this way then some of the guys. Maybe we will get to that point too and catch up.

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622

    But I am NOT willing to lie to someone on a continual basis to make myself appear to be someone I'm not, which is what you guys are doing. That is being a con artist. And yes, I think anyone with half a conscience will agree that it is wrong.
    The question on the table was not about the men's lying. You keep wanting to turn the conversation into a conversation about the evils of lying men. We get it.

    Nor is the question really about is it wrong to make money from dancing for men who lie.

    The question is are dancers living a double standard if on the one hand they claim to hate men who lie to women, but on the other hand thrive off those same men. The question is not about you personally, it is a general question. NO fingers are being pointed. Try to not to take it personally because it really throws the entire conversation completely off track.

    The guys will admit sometimes they lie.

    They guys don't blaim the dancers for their lies.

    But the guys find it ironic when a dancer (or escort) makes a big deal about men who lie, while at the same time they post how their best customers are married men (men who they know lie about using their services).

    Is the pot calling the kettle black?

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622

    Yes, I may be a whore and whatever else by someone's definition, but I am not hurting or conning anyone else.
    Some women (and some bible/Koran thumping men) would strongly disagree with you. They would say that a "whore" (or dancer) knowingly sleeps with, or sexually stimulates married men and ruins marraiges. They would say whore's encourage violence and objectification of women.

    I don't see it that way but many people do see stripping/escorting as evil activities that hurt others. We should always be careful about throwing stones in our glass houses. Others have different ideas about what is and isn't wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622
    I am dancing. I returned to the biz after a 5 year hiatus.
    Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622
    How about you Darren? If you had the choice, would you take less pay to know that the people you are dealing with in business are honest?
    Well, two part answer. First, I am in a technical business. There is not much to lie about, though our marketing people like to stretch the truth, and I don't. Our customers are buying expensive technical solutions, not sneaky gifts for their GFs. So kind of hard to answer.

    Second, the original question was about a double standard... the issue was not is lying bad (or not) and it is not is it bad to take money from liars. But is it a double standard if on the one hand a dancer/escort claims to desipse liars, while on the other make most of their money from people that have to lie about using the service they provide.

    So yes I would take the money if I chose to be in the business. I would accept that I was making money off of people that have to lie to their SOs about using my service and that I was exploiting the situation. And if I was called on living a double standard, if I was blaiming my customers for being liars, I'd try to consider it that it is at least possible I am being inconsistent in my beliefs. I can accept that I am not perfect and that some situations in life are less than perfect.

    Quote Originally Posted by erotictonic link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25606#msg25606 date=1091419622
    I can see you really got the gist of my post Darren. As usual. All you did was continue to point the finger. Wake up and smell the coffee. Brush up on your reading comprehension skills please.
    Sigh

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    erotictonic...

    I barely have said anything in regards to this post....please show me the 'hateful' things you are attaching to my name.

    SHOUTING DOESN"T MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS MORE CONVINCING.....just a little tip for next time.

    Obviously this has struck a nerve with you....mucho venom spewing forth....

    when writing the orignal post (which was only about 3 sentances long!) I was just pointing out what I thought was a bit of hypocrisy....I never said I was perfect, or didn't lie, or any of that. Just seems sort of interesting to me that strippers don't want to admit that they are getting the bulk of their cash from guys that are lying. Is it the stripper's fault? Nope. We're all responsible for our own actions. Of course, using this logic, its not the drug dealer's fault either that the junkie keeps handing over the cash....its the junkie's choice, right?
    Nobodys perfect. Well, there was this one guy, but we killed him.

  22. #47
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mobius7 link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25609#msg25609 date=1091426509
    I barely have said anything in regards to this post....please show me the 'hateful' things you are attaching to my name.
    ....
    ....
    when writing the orignal post (which was only about 3 sentances long!) I was just pointing out what I thought was a bit of hypocrisy....
    You're going to get this kind of response mobius since the original question IS hateful and a big circle jerk of displaced blame.

    It's a pretty simple concept that those in incredibly deep denial just can't fathom.. and if they ever did, it would become a non-issue.

    Strippers, dancers, escorts, sex workers.. whatever. They aren't simply dirty dishrags from which you to wipe clean all your sins away upon.

    To try and create a basis of 'double standard' or 'hypocrisy' on this is simply the vehicle of someone trying to displace blame off themselves and unto an innocent target.

    The dancers (and myself!) have made it very clear what the reality of the situation is: there is no way to police it, and if it could be policed, it's not some desired outcome.

    What's next? Blame Walgreens for selling you condoms for when you fuck someone behind your wife's back? Those damn pharmacy clerks! They saw the wedding ring! It's a well known fact that men wearing a wedding ring and buying condoms are about to cheat! IT'S ALL WALGREENS FAULT! DAMN THEM!

    The 'fucked-up PL' bit comes from those that are just so hardset to try and get some sort of 'confession' that strippers are there to cause infidelity or stripclubs exist solely to encourage and create this behavior. THE BUCK STOPS HERE, GUYS. If you are unfaithful, lie to a wife/SO, or behave poorly- the accountability lies 100% upon YOUR shoulders, no matter how hard you try to badger these ladies in trying to believe otherwise. They can exist guilt-free. Can you?

    No matter what ill-logic, faulty customer ratios or whatnot you may try to invent, it just isn't reality. Stripclub patrons are NOT all married or cheating men. Hell, the highest portion of customers I see out here in SF are fucked up, lonely, girlfriend-less PL's looking for company and attention. And of the married ones that wander into the clubs- most of them have wives that know. Either it's discussed or not discussed, but it's a known thing.

    Good luck trying to bully this concept into other, more naive dancers. For a few it might even work. I'm glad to see the SW representation wise enough to see the real source of this kind of discussion and fire back accordingly (good job erotictonic!).
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25608#msg25608 date=1091426304
    Your posting came across that way - you don't lie, so you are perfect. We do so we are worthless men (or whatever).
    ....
    ....
    I was just being facitious because you were coming across as holier than thou, the sinless one.
    This is always the scapegoat.. i.e. just simply cast anyone that lives with even a shred of morality, honesty, dignity or honor as simply being elitists or 'holier than thou'...

    For as long as people such as these simply discount or fabricate that such people do not exist, the 'holier than thou' label will continue to be thrown. Perhaps instead of all this typical and redundant displacement, it is time to focus inwards versus simply erasing everyone else that you somehow feel couldn't possibly exist.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    Quote Originally Posted by mobius7 link=board=1;threadid=1602;start=msg25609#msg25609 date=1091426509
    erotictonic...

    I barely have said anything in regards to this post....please show me the 'hateful' things you are attaching to my name.

    SHOUTING DOESN"T MAKE YOUR ARGUMENTS MORE CONVINCING.....just a little tip for next time.

    Obviously this has struck a nerve with you....mucho venom spewing forth....

    when writing the orignal post (which was only about 3 sentances long!) I was just pointing out what I thought was a bit of hypocrisy....I never said I was perfect, or didn't lie, or any of that. Just seems sort of interesting to me that strippers don't want to admit that they are getting the bulk of their cash from guys that are lying. Is it the stripper's fault? Nope. We're all responsible for our own actions. Of course, using this logic, its not the drug dealer's fault either that the junkie keeps handing over the cash....its the junkie's choice, right?
    Wrong again. To compare going to a sc with a junkie is fucking ridiculous. I do not seek out people to try to "hook" them on an illegal substance, so they will continue to buy it from me. lol. I sell dances to people who have chosen on their own will to come in seeking them.

    Question: How in the flying fuck do you know that strippers are getting the bulk of their money from guys that are lying? YOU DON'T. Stop thinking that just because you are a liar, everyone else is, and a little lying is "human" and okay. Not in my book. Your last post is incredibly hateful, and yes, this shouldn't even be an issue.

    Polecat's posts are fucking dead-on, as usual.

    More later when I feel like it.

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    Default Re:Double Standard - Take 2

    I am done with this one.

    You guys are right. Drug dealers, tobacco companies, gun runners, sweatshop owners, slum lords, you know what, there are no interdependencies... these are all just good hard working people trying to make a buck. There is no such thing as explotation. God it is sure is easier to sleep at knowing I am free of any responsibilities in life.

    This has been like trying to have a discussion with someone that has borderline personality disorder. Go on and keep on screaming at men erotic... keep raging and telling men how fucked up they are. You will enjoy a wonderful lifetime of perpetually fucked up relationships. You have had nothing whatsoever to do with the outcome of your relationships with men. It is all just been someone elses fault. You behavior is perfect.

    Keep on lying to yourself about yourself and you will sleep great at night knowing you are completely without responsibility - all your problems are due to someone else - you are just an innocent perfect person. Oh and a hot one too... so fortunately can always find men willing to tell you whatever you want to hear to get into your pants.

    :pat on the head:

    And hey, the liars, not really their fault either you know. If everyone else wasn't so fucking controlling they could just do whatever they want. Damn those other people for trying to suggest that the somehow their actions have negative impact on others. They are just using a service. It is all just harmless fun. I mean really if you think about it is not their fault at all either.

    God it is great to live in a world where we call all lie to ourselves

    --sarcasm mode off--

    I'm done with this thread ... expect no further replies.


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