??? Sorry, but you lost me here... mind explaining? Thx.Originally Posted by Pamela
GB
??? Sorry, but you lost me here... mind explaining? Thx.Originally Posted by Pamela
GB
"That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
- Luke
"Some men, you just can't reach...."
- Boss, re Luke
If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
-Cowboy Junkies
RU486 is not available anymore? When did that happen?





ummmm abortion IS birth control.Originally Posted by RedZ28
If abortions are made illegal,and considered murder.Back alley abortions would have at least 3 players.Kinda like a back alley mugging or killing.
The murderer
the accompliss
the victom
Why would you show pity for anyone other then the person who is killed?
Just a question.
As a man in America,do you know what your rights are to your children,born and unborn??
It stuns me when i see a man who is pro choice.





Originally Posted by Adina
wouldnt it be cheaper,and solve alot more problems,if we could get the kids to understand ABSTINENCE????^ Nope![]()
how do we get the hardcore rightwing to understand that ?
telling kids NOT to do something,BUT IF YA DO,hears what your gonna need to properly do what we just told ya not to do.And if that fails,we got a failsafe for ya called abortion.
But remember,dont do it.
No wonder the teens today are so friggin confused.
![]()
BigGrnM&M: Just out of curiousity, if abortion were no longer legal, would you make an exception for victims of rape who become pregnant? And/or for cases where the life of the mother is seriously endangered? If so, why??? I've never understood the rationale for that - if abortion is murder, why is it OK to commit murder when the child is the result of a rape? Same re chance the mother might die - why is it OK to commit murder when there's no certainty re the outcome if she's forced to bear the child full term? Thx.
"That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
- Luke
"Some men, you just can't reach...."
- Boss, re Luke
If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
-Cowboy Junkies





What about the boys??Originally Posted by GnBeret
Much respect for your opinions and your information posted on the forum.
Not meaning to get personal,but do you have any kids,to be exact,do you have any daughters??
This opinion suggest you dont IMO,so until you do,and some teacher at school hands her a few condoms for the weekend,you wont really know for sure if your for or against this suggestion.





No way.Heres why.Originally Posted by GnBeret
To begin with,cases of rape are less then 1% of abortions done.
This is what alot of PC people harp on alot though,its also what scares alot of people away from the debate.
You want to chase most men away from the debate,toss the rape card at him,it works in most cases.
1% isnt justifacation to the rest IMO.
IF abortions were kept legal for the cases of rape..
Do you think false charges of rape would increase or decrease??
IMO alot of innocent men and teenage boys will be in jail.
Yes i feel sorry for the woman who is raped,i have daughters for kripes sake,so dont anyone turn this into the femi nazi ploy of bashing me for not showing pity for the raped.I do.
But its 1% of what the overall picture is that we are talking about.
The host must be saved imo.If you want to call that an abortion,fine,i call it a lifesaving operation.And/or for cases where the life of the mother is seriously endangered? If so, why???
Nobody is saying stand around and watch a mother die from a tubal pregnancy.
Ha ha ha... Touche! No daughters, only sons. That said, I can assure you that if I had a daughter I'd have long since made such things as birth control and condoms freely available to her without her having to go through me by the time the teacher got around to giving them to her.Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
And FYI, my mom taught biology in an all girls Catholic school, where she was specifically prohibited from getting into anything which might be construed as "sex education," and specifically required to parrot the party line re "abstinence." She said that lasted all of about ten minutes when she got to the reproduction part of the biology class, 'cause after meeting the first few questions from the girls with the abstinence response, one of them raised their hand and said "Well, there are ways to have sex without getting pregnant, you know." To which, out of sheer curiousity, she replied "Oh?" And the girl says "Yea, everybody knows you just put some Saran wrap on his penis." My mom said her first thought was "Now I know why we have 5 Seniors pregnant in a class of less than 150!" ... and her second thought was "This is insane... these girls are going to have sex with their boyfriends regardless of what I, or anyone else tells them, so they damned well ought to know what they're doing, how to keep from becoming pregnant, and how to avoid catching STD's." And from that point on, she'd block out some days at the start of the year every year, post a "guard" by the door, and tell them the whole truth, top to bottom. And yep, you guessed it, no more Senior class pregnancies for the next 8 years in that school... care to hazard a guess as to why?
Knowledge is always a good thing. How about we teach the kids to make intelligent decisions based on hard information, and then rely upon the parents to have instilled whatever morality and hopefully good judgment in them by that point in life such that they CHOOSE to do, or not do things on the basis of real knowledge, as opposed to complete ignorance and fear?![]()
"That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
- Luke
"Some men, you just can't reach...."
- Boss, re Luke
If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
-Cowboy Junkies





Trying to make kids abstain has been tried since the dawn of time- it doesnt work most of the time.
Last edited by GirlFriday; 12-24-2004 at 02:06 PM.
Thanks for the explanation - while we obviously disagree over the fundamental question, at least I can follow the logic of your position re rape... I've just always had a hard time with the concept of designating the procedure a "murder" and then making exceptions for this, that or whatever - has nothing to do with it, is either murder or it isn't.Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
"That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
- Luke
"Some men, you just can't reach...."
- Boss, re Luke
If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
-Cowboy Junkies





It stuns me everytime I read or hear or encounter a man, who is a complete stranger to me, who think he has the right to tell me what to do with the most intimate parts of my body and soul. I would sooner kill myself than let someone like BigGrn tell me when I am ALLOWED to bring life into this world or notOriginally Posted by BigGreenMnM
![]()
All the men out there think they should get to make my life's choices for me can shove that little worthless opinion right up where the sun don't shine because none of you have any right to tell me or any woman what do with with our reproductive abilites. The only person you have the right to make those choices for is yourself.
Well, I'm definitely pro choice - if my sister, girlfriend, friend, family member, were pregnant and endanger of losing her life, I sure as hell would want her to go to a doctor rather than lose her life to produce another or perform a back-alley, coat hanger self-surgery.. What purpose does that serve? All the people I just listed are gentle, caring, intelligent and productive people that would lose their life over pro-life restrictions. I for one will not sentence a mother to death via support of pro-life advocates. It's discrimination against the mother if you ask me.Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
Also, what about rape? God forbid if my girlfriend was raped, but if she was, I would be 100% supportive if she did not want to mother the son/daughter of a rapist.
- just my opinion.





Originally Posted by GnBeret
" BigGrnM&M: Just out of curiousity, if abortion were no longer legal, would you make an exception for victims of rape who become pregnant? "
Revolting ! Cruel ! imo anywayOriginally Posted by BigGreenMnM
So if you agree that abortion ( if illegal) would be murder - what is the just punishment, in your opinion ?
let me guess -- the electric chair.... right ?
Well thats surprising , I'd have figured you for a save the baby not the mother type- especially with the use of the word "host"Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
![]()
You go girl! I don't want anybody telling me what I can or cannot do with my own body, and I'm not interested in telling anybody else what they can or cannot do with theirs. Start down that path and those that currently advocate the contrary position will someday find themselves on the wrong end of the "telling."Originally Posted by Tigerlilly
"That's your answer Old Man? I guess you're a Hard Case too...."
- Luke
"Some men, you just can't reach...."
- Boss, re Luke
If there's one thing in my life these years have taught me,
it's that you can always see it coming, but you can never stop it.
-Cowboy Junkies





Exactly !!!!!!!!!!!!!Start down that path and those that currently advocate the contrary position will someday find themselves on the wrong end of the "telling."





I agree 100%.Originally Posted by GnBeret
Now lets talk at what age is ok with you.
should it be elementary,middle school,highschool,or collage??( I say highschool is ok,jr year to be exact)
Teaching a kid about sex is one thing.handing them condoms on request is another thing.
Btw...
Is your sons school pro choice or pro life??
Do they mirror your views???
Is the sex ed teacher pro choice or pro life??
Does she follow school guidelines??
does she mirror your views on the topic?
will she reenforce your home teaching on the topic with her teachings or will she teach the opposite of what your telling your kids at home?
What about the substitute teacher??
Im all for sex ed,i just think it differs when you get past the mechanics of sex and stray into topics such as abortions and handing out birth control.
can a child be taught by a pro life teacher on the details of abortion or vise versa??
To many gray areas,and i dont like putting my "kids"into those gray area situations.
Its a debate between parents that is being faught in the schools of our children.





lolOriginally Posted by Tigerlilly
It isnt working???
Teen pregnancy isnt down??
Most kids dont get pregnant.
Most teens do not get abortions.
Im sorry you dont see something working when its working.
Most horses that you lead to water will drink,some wont.


I think sex should honestly start to be taught in elementary school. Girls can start having their periods as young as 8 years old. Also, the more a kid knows about sex and anatomy the less likely they are to be molested.
~*~ I must not fear. ~*~Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.~*~ Only I will remain. ~*~


And yes teen pregnancy is down but STD rates are up (and so are abortion rates) so I would highly refrain from saying that it is due to abstainance.
~*~ I must not fear. ~*~Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.~*~ Only I will remain. ~*~
Wow, after reading everyone's post's, the only thing I have to say is, I agree with Tigerlilly 100%!![]()





With the current situation,even the man who knocked you up is considered a stranger.You know,the FATHER of the child your pregnant with.Originally Posted by Tigerlilly
Im sorry if you dont see men as caring parents.parents that consider their children to be the most intimate part of their life,and without a doubt,part of their very soul.
Kinda like what the mother thinks about their children.
Odd huh???
Even if your married to the man,he has no say in what happens to his children under laws that are around for now.
If the wife wants to keep it,he has no say.
If the wife wants to kill it,he has no choice,she can legally kill thier kid.
You can marry a die hard pro lifer,but when she gets pregnant,she can change her mind,legally and without consent from the husband.(as females have been known to do)
And females are complaining about equal rights in marriage???
HA!!!!
Once they outline what is considered a marriage in this country,i wonder why anyone would want to get married.From the males point of view,they have no rights in the most important reasons for getting married,the kids.


BigGrnMn. So a woman should be forced to go to term and gestate? One word: Romania.
~*~ I must not fear. ~*~Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.~*~ Only I will remain. ~*~





a medical operation to save the mother isnt an issue,even if roe wade was overturned it would not stop medical life saving operations.Originally Posted by A_Guy
Rape is 1% of abortions.Also, what about rape? God forbid if my girlfriend was raped, but if she was, I would be 100% supportive if she did not want to mother the son/daughter of a rapist.
Maybe when the roe wade decision is overturned,there will be provisions for cases of PROVED rape.Im open to listen to suggestions as to what they would be,with the bottom line ending being a rapest in jail.
Again i would ask,if its only allowed in cases of rape,do you think alot of men and boys will be falsely charged with rape just so the woman can get an abortion??
How would you feel,if your girlfriend got pregnant,and decided to keep it??
How would you feel,if your girlfriend got pregnant,and decided to abort??
How you feel is what you get,because you dont get a say in whatever she decides to do with your unborn child.
Ever have a one night stand??
If your one night stand got preggers,would she cry rape when she got pregnant,just to have an abortion, if that was the only way to get one??
When a man and woman drop their pants TOGETHER,only one has rights to anything that happens.
That aint equal.
wow, this is extreme
I rarely see someone put a fetus' rights over those of a self-sustaining human being.
I'm thinking by reading this thread that BigGreen is concerned by how few rights men have as fathers, but taking it to such an extreme level simply because it will hurt women just as he feels men have been hurt. Take one away from women, thereby giving one more to men, right
The problem with this is that you're essentially punishing women by taking away our rights to satisfy your need to even the score. Perhaps you should concentrate on giving men back some of their rights, which would also have the same effect.





sorry sweety,i knew you were gonna say something like this.Originally Posted by Tigerlilly
The rape card only works on guys who dont know about the issue.
Even implying that i condone rape is whats revolting.But dont worry,its a tactic that is used on men all the time so i forgive your PC guilt trip.
i dont decide what the fate is for people who are convicted of murder,i only go along with how the courts decide to eliminate them,with the exception of the gas chamber and hanging.If the electric chair has many more mishaps,then i would vote to remove that as an option.So if you agree that abortion ( if illegal) would be murder - what is the just punishment, in your opinion ?
let me guess -- the electric chair.... right ?
Maybe we can build a huge shop vac and suck them thru while stabbing them to death with coat hangers??
Your wanting me to show pity for someone who is a murderer??
If they are convictted by the laws of the land,they deserve to pay the price,however the courts see fit.
Bookmarks