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    Smiley need feedback on business idea

    Hi Everyone,

    Reading this site impressed me how inteligent and insightful you all are here. If you dont mind I would like some feedback on my idea. It is something that me and my partners have more then enough resources to do but fear that since we are all finance types and not from the industry we may misjudge demand.

    I have built fairly large businesses before this would be smaller but its more appealing specifically as I know certain high paying/free spending industries really well and how to get those employees into the club. I currently employ lots of these types of people and boy do they know how to throw money away (on all sorts of things) its just an issue of channeling them to the right place.

    I had an idea for an upsacle strip club that would be slightly different then a regular strip club and would mix a regular strip club with a Japanese style hostess bar where the dancers sit with men at tables for defined periods of time for drinks and chat to "provide company". Men can buy 30 minute or 1 hour blocks for lets say $100 and $200 respectively" within that period any lapdance would be the regular $20. Dancers could make lots of money and would be basicaly be paid for chatting time. likelihood of expensive VIP room visits would be much higher after men get to know the dancer for half an hour or more.

    In Japan hostess bars are insanely popular and make lots of money, mixed in with a strip club it should do really well as men are men and getting the undivided attention of hot girls ordering them drinks and speaking to them like they were masters of the universe has global appeal. Add with that lap dances and in one our a customer could be milked for $400 - $600 including a tip with no problem at all, not to mention that likelihood of VIP room visit can take that to upwards of $1500 per customer.

    MY EXPERIENCES: I have been to some of the upscale clubs in new york like PEC and at PEC for example I dropped a few thousand in a few hours (generally in life I am a cheap bastard and here I didnt even notice it) and others with me spent much more then that. while on busines in Tokyo all customers Japanese and foreigners went religiously to hostess bars and loved spending money there.

    what am I missing here, obviously it sounds good to me but I have learned the hard way that my ego often builds up fantasies in my head that need a reality check so if you can help with that I would appreciate it.

    Am I deluding my self, and would non japanese men not go for hostess type bar concept outside Japan.

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Where? Of the 5 - 10 (if that) markets in the U.S. that could even potentially sustain that kind of high-priced club, at least half are oversaturated with fairly nice clubs featuring very beautiful women that are hurting for business as it is - and given what that kind of pressure has done to the way business is currently being conducted in the clubs in those markets, much of what you describe as your target clientele is likely to opt for a "blowout" evening in those clubs at 1/2 (or maybe even 1/4) of the prices you're describing, especially if they're entertaining clients on expense account. So, what you're left with is 3 - 4 potential markets in the U.S. for the kind of place you're describing... and if you're not in one of those you'll have little to no chance of the place ever making it.

    Next, for your club to have any chance at all it's going to have to have THE prettiest girls in the market by far, and that's not going to happen unless they can consistently make more than they could elsewhere. But for that to happen, there will have to be a fairly steady stream of clients dropping $$$$ every night, and that's the part I'm having trouble accepting. While we've probably all seen it happen several on several different occasions, in my experience it's not an every night occurence even at the top clubs, much less a 20 - 50 times a night occurrence... at least not at the level of the $$$$ you're describing. Moreover, it's not like the other clubs will suddenly disappear, so a fair amount of that limited pool of customers will still be spending their $$$$ at the other clubs.

    Anyway, just my .02, but I think your expectations re the number of customers who will frequent your club and drop the kinds of monies you're describing are overly optimistic - just don't think you'll be able to consistently pull that many customers with that much money to burn, especially considering your competition.
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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    They do that in LA. THere are a couple nice ones in LA itself, and a bunch of trashy extras ones in La Puente (where there's a concentration of Japanese-American men). The way they do it in the nice ones there is that they have a dance floor, a restaurant area, a movie area, and you can go on a "similated date" no nudity.

    The girls sit on couches behind a low wall and men come in and sit at tables drinking and examining the girls. When they pick one they get "clocked in" with that girl, and when they're done they clock out and pay five dollars per ten minutes to the club, and the same amount plus tip to the girl.

    I don't see this working in NY, if that's where you're thinking. Maybe Vegas. You need a place with lots of businessmen where pretty girls are a dime a dozen and can't make money without doing extras in a strip club so they're motivated to work at your club.

    JMO,

    Lena



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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Maybe on the West coast, where there are lots of Japanese businessmen...or somewhere like London where there's Saudi money...it's the kind of theing that I don't think many American men would pay for.

    Feature costumes for sale!

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    If you are aiming at high rollers your competition is not other strip clubs but other clubs. These high rollers are not going to want to consort with the riffraff, the 2 clientels are mutually exclusive.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Thanks so much for the feedback, i feel somewhat disheartened but I knew there had to be major holes in my plans. You all raised some really interesting objections, I am curious to know if the LA clubs discussed are successful.

    what I gather from you all is that competition is fierce but hey that's business even the phone company has competitors now and lots of them. in the upscale market in NY, and other places for example there is only 3 maybe 4 clubs the rest are not really competitors, and many markets like NY, LA, etc can handle more then a few clubs. as an example NY has 230,000+ people working on wall street with an average salary of $170,000, even if you take into account that some large bonuses skew these numbers its still allot of people with allot of money and that is just for starters there is plenty of other industries with lots of highly paid people all concentrated within the 8 million people that live in the city limits. I am curious Lena why you say NY wouldnt work, have you worked in New York. I am going on pure theories here so I am not arguing just doesnt seem that it make sense.

    Also many clubs (not all) seem to have no clue what marketing is and therefore compete on other things, and therefore I may have an edge here. Green Beret you are correct that this will be a challange day in and day out to fill the club but obviously this is the plan and the one thing I thnk I can do better then others.

    do you think I will have trouble attracting the top notch dancers needed for such an establishment. Given the fee structure I could eliminate dancer fees as that is chump change anyways to attract the best girls, or am I still being deluded here. Can it be that a few clubs have a monopoly on all the pretty women in town, and I will have to settele for second best. wouldnt dancers be attracted to the fact that they get paid for even "sales" time where in other places they must run around and hustle dances for free making money on success only.

    do you think the market has been ruined and men will want cheap "extras" at cheaper clubs, therefore defeating my idea which depends on a long and expensive tease. Will everyone just say hey why do I need to pay for drinks with a beautiful woman when I can just get ...... for the same money and right now. I think its a challange but i doubt strip clubs would exist if this was so prevalent that everyone wanted it.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    do you think I will have trouble attracting the top notch dancers needed for such an establishment. Given the fee structure I could eliminate dancer fees as that is chump change anyways to attract the best girls, or am I still being deluded here. Can it be that a few clubs have a monopoly on all the pretty women in town, and I will have to settele for second best. wouldnt dancers be attracted to the fact that they get paid for even "sales" time where in other places they must run around and hustle dances for free making money on success only.
    Attracting the best looking girls could indeed be difficult if the owners of established upscale clubs put out the word that any girl leaving their club to try new club XYZ should never bother coming back. This is a routine occurence in the New York market, and places top notch girls in the awkward position of being forced into taking a 'leap of faith' to try a new club with full advance knowledge that this will be a "one way trip".

    do you think the market has been ruined and men will want cheap "extras" at cheaper clubs, therefore defeating my idea which depends on a long and expensive tease. Will everyone just say hey why do I need to pay for drinks with a beautiful woman when I can just get ...... for the same money and right now. I think its a challange but i doubt strip clubs would exist if this was so prevalent that everyone wanted it.
    Actually, your market may be ruined by men wanting expensive 'extras' from girls working at upscale clubs ... sometimes inside the club but most often after hours as an independent business venture.

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    Smiley Re: need feedback on business idea

    Melonie,

    Is the amount of beautiful strippers that limited that a few clubs have them all, can beauties be imported from lesser earning locations, like the mid west or south. I have seen some fairly pathetic posts in here with what sounds like beautiful women earning pennies (in comparison) at many clubs in this country. from reading this board dancers seem to be fairly mobile bunch and geographically unattached is this true or a fales sense that I am getting from a relatively small sample.

    I also sense that I am getting from this board is that dancer turnover everywhere is fairly high, is that just the riff raff being let go, or is this true for established dancers as well.

    It also seems dancer turnover is as much to do with non monetary related issues so if I offer some perks that relax everyone (waiting for ideas)vwill that attract all those seeking to get along more.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    I've worked in New York, but not in NYC.

    Part of the reason the concept worked well in LA is that there is an overabundance of pretty women in LA, also an abundance who don't want to ruin their acting careers by stripping, plus strip club culture does not involve speaking to customers much. It's a total "wannadance" market. So if you want to talk to a beautiful woman at all, or have dinner with her, you have to go to the hostess clubs. That's not true in NYC tho, you can go to several upscale clubs and pay a beautiful classy woman to sit with you, talk with you, eat with you, etc.

    I don't think you have a very good understanding of the industry. Please, before get serious about this, go somewhere and work at a club for a couple weeks or a month.

    Lena



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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    You are right Lena I dont know which is why I keep prodding as hopefully you can shorten my learning curve. in NYC clubs where you can do that, is that part of the "menu" of sorts or is it something that is privately negotiated between dancers and customers. is it something that is available for everyone or just "regulars". I was certainly not offered I ate at one place and the girls came only at the end of the meal to solicit VIP area for the entire group.

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    Veteran Member Gerina's Avatar
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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Just fyi, Jonny, I currently charge $20-25 per song to hang out and chat (fully clothed) - $100-$200 might be a little sparse in a big city.
    ...and the day came, when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became worse than the risk it took to blossom.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    In most upscale clubs with a kitchen you can certainly pay a girl to have dinner with you in the club. However most girls will tend to wait until a customer has finished eating to approach. If you decide to eat after hooking up with a girl, you can certainly feel free to offer to have her stay for dinner. I think in most upscale NYC clubs, this is already "on the menu" of sorts and even though it may not be a standard thing, it's certainly available to anyone with the money and inclination.

    I agree with the others that this type of club would only work in a market with lots of businessmen and more specifically travelling businessmen. I have dealt with enough upscale travelling businessmen in strip clubs to know that plenty of them (if not most) would enjoy and possibly even prefer a riffraff-free, more exclusive environment where they could enjoy the company of a woman in a more "date-like" setting. I think part of the reason many of these men don't frequent strip clubs more often is because of the overall degradation of the industry to what is to them an indulgence that is more risky than hiring a callgirl. Many of these men have told me straight out that they generally prefer to hire callgirls for dinner dates in most cities because of the seediness of strip clubs, but that they frequently wind up in strip clubs anyway because of the general inability to choose their callgirl dates prior to the actual date. A club such as yours would offer these men the ability to choose from a variety of women in one location and to have an enjoyable evening in a safer more private setting than regular strip clubs or bars. Of course this would lead to opportunities for after hours business arrangements, but that's a whole other enchilada and for the most part, not your concern.

    As for attracting talent, you can always import them if you have the extra resources. Offering ability to work with no house fees (at least in the beginning) also helps to generate interest among prospective entertainers, as well as getting the word out in the right circles about what you're doing. Obviously this website is a good place to start for that In this industry at least, most entertainers aren't as mobile as you think, but most of the TOP entertainers are extremely mobile. Since you would be looking for only the top girls, you shouldn't have too much trouble weeding through the fluff to get to the cream.

    Good luck, it makes me happy to see someone at least attempting to do something like this.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    As for attracting talent, you can always import them if you have the extra resources. Offering ability to work with no house fees (at least in the beginning) also helps to generate interest among prospective entertainers, as well as getting the word out in the right circles about what you're doing.
    Without wanting to cast stereotype aspersions, imported beautiful girls may not achieve the result originally envisioned. I offer an example the large number of eastern european girls imported into the eastern US over the past few years. At least some of these imported stunningly beautiful girls were totally comfortable in providing 'extras' to customers at prices which are an absolute bargain by US standards.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Well, guess I should have clarified. I wasn't talking about importing illegal immigrants. I was talking about importing top girls from around the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    Well, guess I should have clarified. I wasn't talking about importing illegal immigrants. I was talking about importing top girls from around the country.
    This could work .... IF (and this is a big if) .... the new club has pockets deep enough to keep top notch American girls happy from a financial standpoint to hang around long enough for the new club to catch on. I have seen this done successfully on just one occasion - where the club guaranteed dancers $1000 minimum a week, and the club made up the difference out of the cash register if business levels weren't there to directly provide the dancers with that level of earnings. If I remember right, the clubowner burnt through about $45,000-$50,000 making these 'guarantee' payments to dancers for the first month or two that the club was open. However, the club eventually caught on big time and by the end of the first year the club had earned all of it's 'guarantee' money back.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    thanks for the ideas ladies, really top notch advice. I appreciate the cold water on my enthusiasm as well it needed it.

    I just came back from Vegas where the clubs are loaded with ridiculously good looking women working in one of the worst stressful enviornments I have ever seen. loaded with customers for sure but boy do they have to work for it. I can definitely lure those dancers away if I had the clients. These girls were working in third world conditions as far as contact on the floor, and a need to hustle that looked more severe then the hookers on an HBO special.

    Maybe I am a bit naive but it seems like these gals will jump ship, all the ones I talked to were from out of town too. Obviously I never asked but is there something I am missing or did I walk into exceptional clubs, or do I even have it all wrong and the vegas style is what many dancers want.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    I would ascertain that its potentially 50/50. Some dancers such as myself thrive on a busy, high hustle environment. I prefer to "hit and run" customers with lapdances and a short evening of fun company. I am not as interested in maintaining long-term relationships with customers, aka regulars, because I believe they end up costing me more in the law of diminishing returns.

    But not all dancers succeed in the high hustle game and are great at honing long-term relationships over time. These girls would really enjoy a hostess club. But they must realize that their earnings are going to take a significant dip since they will not be offering their customers the sexual component of the stripclub experience, re lapdances. I worked in a hostess club in Europe myself and was very antsy sitting around drinking champagne and massaging egos. I was constantly pushing to sell dances.

    I don't have a solution for you. This idea would definately fail in Texas, but is pretty successful in Europe. Of course, in the European hostess club, sex is often on the menu either in a seperate area in the club, or elsewhere. Also, prostitution and nudity are far less proscribed. Thus, strip clubs, a happy medium in the US, are not popular abroad (Europe). Hostess clubs are big in Germany, Switzerland, Italy, and a few in the Netherlands and Belgium.

    My $.02

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Katrine,

    was it easier to sell dances to people you were having drinks with and talking. it would seem logical that it would as that how effective dancers sell regular lapdances, but in practice what happens in a hostess club enviornment do ciustomers get lazy about buying dances

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    does anyone know of clubs that do something like my idea, someone mentined that there rae some nice ones in LA, are they hostess bars, strip clubs or are they a combination of the two like I am planning. If anyone can recommend place for me to check out I will appreciate it.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    Sure, check out Scores East or PEC in Manhattan. Their 'main rooms' pretty much appear to operate like your 'dream club'. However, also spend the money to check out the champagne rooms, so you can find out how the real money is made.

    Also keep in mind that super upscale clubs like these can only exist as a relatively small market segment in a really large market, in order to have enough 'weel heeled' high rolling customers to support the business model (and keep top notch girls happy earnings wise).

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    been to PEC definitely what sparked the idea in me, as I thought that if they had that on the menu I would have done it. I guess I was too shy to ask, something about gorgeous naked women that does that to me. I will go again and try to get this. last time though outside the steakhouse it just looked like a regular place that had guys getting lapdances with girls hustling from chair to chair.

    for shy guys like me things like this need to be spelled out on paper or part of the pitch by the girls which it was not, and I spoke to and got lap dances from quite a few. strip clubs are the one place on earth where women chase men so it shouldnt be up to me to figure this stuff out. At least this is what I am thinking.

    also they dont market the club this way, as I would.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea




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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    thanks for the link Lena, very useful.

    the clubs reviewed (didnt read all) were VERY cheap and i cant imagine girls working for so little while offering so much (seems like it was littered with illegal immigrants from the reviews)

    this definitely takes LA out of the picture as I cant compete with that, even though I would be aiming much higher.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    I think building the club is the easy part.
    Filling it with hostess hotties from around the world is easy.
    All that takes is a chunk of money.

    The problem is going to be filling the seats with your targeted demographics on a daily basis.
    I would find a playground for the rich and famouse as a site location.Vegas,Rio,etc.
    Either you gotta bring them to the "water"or they gotta already be there to stumble in.

    I would also check into where the Japanese "rich"go to play golf.(being that your modeling this after japanese style hostess clubs)

    yea yea i said golf.Check what the course memberships are(some in the millions)in Japan.
    If you could check,my opinion is that Japanese business men spend the most money on two things,Golf and Blondes,and in that order.

    If i had a zillion dollars,and i wanted to make a zillion more,i would build a golf course with a landing strip on Okinawa.I would have the clubhouse on the front 9,with your type club idea on the back 9.

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    Default Re: need feedback on business idea

    big green, is it just that I am thick headed that I believe taht a combination strip clu/hostess bar would work for americans. every time I go to Japan on business I have to go these places with customers and I always have a blast and most american business men that I talked to love it as well.

    why go after the Japanese (the world's hardest people to get along with and figure out) customers when americans (me and ones I know) love it too. I am just importing a foreign busines concept into the United States.

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