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Thread: Champaigne Room release expectations

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    Default Champaigne Room release expectations

    Hello. Lastnight, I gave two dances to a customer.(20$ a pop)Afterwards he asked if I would like to go to the champaigne room, and if it would be better in there. I replied, " It could be", but I never stated what I would do or what he could do. The customer went in for the half hour slot. I grinded on him a little bit, then asked if he wanted to sip our drinks and we did. I also made seductive conversation. Now our club rules are that the customer can only touch our legs, and we can grind. This is only my second court,I have been dancing for four months. Anyway he was real hard and I knew that If I did too much more he would cum, and I did not want that. I had one experiance in the room ,where some other guy had an accident,(long duration of grinding) and I did not want that again. Regardless,last night, the guy was REALLY trying to cum. He kept saying ride on it, im almost there....( all that fun stuff =/) ect.....
    He was pretty much demanding it.
    To make a long story short, the customer left unsatisfied because I did not give him the final release from my dry grinding.
    Im upset because the one time it happened, i felt like a dry prostitute and I vowed not to let it happen again.Should I have never accepted the court offer? With lapdances.... I usually go from customer to customer, and never worry about keeping them too long. Im am just really confused on how to handle these courts. Is it a given that the customer wants to cum, and if im not willing to intentionally let it happen(by the means that are legal in my club, dry humping).. i should avoid the courts? I am sorry if this is in the wrong section.( I had saw a court question in this forum part once before) Thank you

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    no it's not a given and you are under no obligation to ensure their "release"

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    In a perfect world, he'd cum (in his opinion)
    In a perfect world, he'd just give us the money and not expect anything (in our opinion)

    in the real world, it's a compromise....somewhere in between

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    I had a similar problem like yours on Saturday night. THis one guy asked me what to expect in the champagne room & I wasn't too sure what to tell him either. I told him that he can only grab my ass & feel my boobs and that's it. I don't want the guy to do so, or me even telling him that. I wouldn't want to hump him either. I'll brush it somehow with my knee or something. And he passed on the offer, didn't take it bc he wanted to kiss my ass, lol. He asked me if he can lick my ass & I said no. I don't think I can let some dude kiss my ass, it's just not right. It sucks bc he must've thought I was such an uptight stripper or something. Um, clueless in the selling private room department as well.
    Last edited by Vyanka; 11-15-2004 at 08:02 PM.

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    Veteran Member DeepGreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    IMHO (being just a simple customer), I feel strongly that you are under absolutely no obligation to do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. Why don't more customers get that? It seems like such a simple thing....

    There are plenty of us out there who are more than happy to shell out lots of money without expecting or demanding extras. I get so upset when I hear repeated stories of customers who demand "release" or extras as if it is somehow your duty as a dancer. In my book, dancer does not equal "dry prostitute" as you state above--and I don't think that there is anything wrong with you feeling uncomfortable with his request. I would love to say 'just avoid the customers who are not satisfied with that which you are willing to provide.' However, I know you are out there to make money, and it puts you in a tough position when a customer is willing to spend but only if you go beyond where you feel comfortable. PLEASE do not feel like this is a required part of your job. It is most definitely not. And please don't be too discouraged...there are good customers out there .
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Honestly, it sounds like you were doing your best to help him come, even if it wasn't what you thought you were going to do. You were dry grinding on him right? If he can't come from that, (unless you were not trying to help him) then it's on him anyway.

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    when guys ask me what to expect in the champagne room, I tell them "A good time" and laugh. If they still persist, I will tell them that it's more fun for me because it's a little more private, it's one on one in there, and there aren't any distractions, AND I won't get called to stage and have to leave him.
    Champagne rooms can be sold without promising extras or contact. If you want to do a high contact dance for more money and feel fine about doing so that's one thing - but you shouldn't feel like you have to sell higher contact in order to be able to sell a champagne room.
    A little sexy (not sexual) talk can go a long way in selling a customer.

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    I was doing my best to be a good hostess, but towards the end I did not grind on him. hard.. then i stopped and just kinda sat on his lap bc i did not want him to cum. And thankz for everyones advice so far

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Brittany, good one, put the onus on the guy to be crass. Seriously, there are so many guys that are like "So what is the champagne room like?" or "the lapdances?" and when you say something flirty like "Oh, I get to take off my clothes and have some fun" they're like ". . . and then?" Like expecting you to say "and then I'll fuck you for $10" >.< Heheh.

    ANYWAY. Nope, under no obligation to let him release. You can just say "I think I need a break" and sip your drink and chat for a little longer, or something. Always remember, only a half hour. Then you never have to speak to him again if you don't want.
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    How do girls gain regulars without dry release? What are some good tips?How do ya's feel about their release?I don't mean to bee too personal, If this question is too personal then please ignore it. I can't ask anyone in my clubs because the only friend I have did one court before just like I had.

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Actually, allowing a guy to release is LESS likely to get you regulars most of the time. If they orgasm, they've gotten some satisfaction off of you, even though indirect, and are more likely to lose interest.

    I did have one regular who must have worn a rubber or extra underwear or something. I would fo a couple of medium-grindage dances, then get off of him, he would close his eyes and come, not touching himself or anything, it was mental. And it never leaked. That is a rarity though.

    You gain regulars by spending time talking to them and being "real" plus giving very sexy, original dances. Personally, I think regulars are mostly the pits. As I've stated so many times, regulars are almost always like the law of diminishing returns.

    They will always start to want more for less money. Work on your hustle game first

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Thank you

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Emily
    In a perfect world, he'd cum (in his opinion)
    In a perfect world, he'd just give us the money and not expect anything (in our opinion)

    in the real world, it's a compromise....somewhere in between
    That, Emily, is a very reasonable answer. Incomplete though.

    Silky, you are going to have to come to terms with the notion that you are in a business where SEX is what is being sold. You are going to have to learn that the sex trade is not simply prostitutes selling direct access to penetration of their physical beings. The sex trade includes all facets of a business where one person is selling the sexual provocation of another. It includes businesses where the express thing being sold is titillation.

    It is a thin line between air dances and grinding on someone's lap from that prespective. Both are selling a conception of sexuality. One may be more 'sensual' then sexual, but both have as their express selling point the arousal of the client paying for the dance. It is an even thinner line between lap dances and what some customers call "lap dances to completion".

    Understand, and own, the fact that you work in the sex industry. Don't purchase into the negative conventions placed on it by others. If you do then leave the business because heartache and self-loathing, usally followed by drug use to kill the pain by turning off those feelings, is the only possible outcome.

    If a guy gets aroused by your lapdance then understand that is a natural reaction to exactly what you are selling. It is an outward sign of your success and the fact that you have him precisely where you want him. Aroused and thinking with the smaller, usually far more easy to manipulate, head.

    Learn to work it and extend that point, drawing it out before he goes over the edge, and you'll make bank every time out. And understand that at some point he may very well go over the edge. At that point it is very likely you have created a return customer.

    Ladies, snipe away if you choose to, but I am simply stating the realities of the business. I'm not trying to ruffle anyone's feathers, just keeping it extraordinarily real, because you deserve nothing less then that.
    Last edited by Thorn; 12-19-2004 at 05:40 PM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyanka
    I had a similar problem like yours on Saturday night. THis one guy asked me what to expect in the champagne room & I wasn't too sure what to tell him either.
    What you tell him, in the best light possible, is exactly the truth.

    No illusions. No weasle words. No promises you don't intend to keep and certainly no lies.

    If you are anything less then honest what you will do is the following:

    1) Create one truly pissed off customer. Pissed off customers do dumb things sometimes. Sometimes these dumb things only cause the bouncers problems. Sometimes they lead to other things more profound.

    2) Create bad word of mouth for you and possibly the club. Believe me, there had always been word of mouth between guys about which clubs have fair and honest dancers and which one's are full of lying weasles who promise the moon but deliver nothing but air. This was never more true than in the internet age. There are more boards where guys are sharing info on clubs then you can shake any two sticks at. If you pissed off a couple of guys by giving them the impression that they have been lied to and you notice a sudden drop off in clients buying dances from you, you can be certain that it is because these guys had internet savvy and have been bad mouthing you in the online backrooms and e-mail chains.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepGreen
    IMHO (being just a simple customer), I feel strongly that you are under absolutely no obligation to do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. Why don't more customers get that? It seems like such a simple thing....
    .
    BTW, what I said above doesn't exclude this.

    At no time is any dancer under the obligation to do anything that she feels uncomfortable with.

    The only thing my post suggests is that she is under an obligation, to herself alone, to be honest about what this business she has entered actually is. This is because to be less then that is a prescription to heartache and possible self-destruction.

    If a dancer can acknowledge fact from fantasy, own both her set of limitations and the set of services she has decided to sell, then she will have created distinct lines that she can live within. Lines that will protect her and create her nitch within the industry.

    It is a business. Treat it as such. You have to acknowledge what industry you are in. Decide what your product is within that industry. Then you have to market it effectively. If you can do these three things then you will have the formula necessary to bring you the greatest ratio of earnings to the limits you have set for yourself.

    When you take it to its final conclusion, its all an equation.

    Don't be afraid to do the math.
    Last edited by Thorn; 12-19-2004 at 08:56 AM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    It is also common for guys to badmouthe girls who don't promise anything extra. Some guys just make stupid assumptions and then get pissed off when they don't receive.

    Thankfully most customers still have better things to do with their time than sit online half a day checking who's doing the cheapest BJ where or who doesn't.

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Actually, allowing a guy to release is LESS likely to get you regulars most of the time. If they orgasm, they've gotten some satisfaction off of you, even though indirect, and are more likely to lose interest.
    I am NOT telling you how to conduct your business. NO DANCER IS UNDER ANY OBLIGATION TO DO ANYTHING SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DO. [sorry, but I don't want anyone misunderstanding my intent here]

    What I am doing is correcting a misconception.

    Apparently you are not privy to the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lines of text that fly back and forth between the guys on boards like this, devoted to our sharing of info on the S-C scene.

    What the guys say on those boards, unequivocally, is that there ATF's [the dancers they do the most repeat business with] satisfy their level of expectations. That might not be a lap dance to completion but does mean that they get what they were looking for when they entered the club.

    The dancers they drop, and never return to, are the ones they feel are playing them. The ones they feel worked them, lied to them about what they were going to get, or teased them past the point they were willing to settle for the tease only, without making good on their [usually] well expressed expectations.

    Guys aren't as stupid as you might think. The dancers they give the most money to are the one's who make them feel good, for whatever reason, to keep shelling out. The ones they give the most repeat business to are the ones who give them reasons to keep coming back.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    How long can a guy actually pay for an arousal? This man obviously wanted to go in there and have nice quick dry sex. There was no tease. There was no "drawing it out before he goes over the edge' for this particular customer, that approach would have not kept him as a regular.Thats what I had tried. I understand what industry I am in. Let me make my question more specific. Thorn maybe you can help out more on this one...... Do you go into the court with the intention to do everything possible to help the guy achieve his ultimate fantasy of releasing.(Within club rules)Or is everyone lucky enough to tease and have the occasional" accident of the sex industry?"

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Whatever Thorn. I'm so sick of customers trying to say that they know EVERYTHING about how to make money in a strip club. Really.
    The best way to make money is to be a good hustler, and to take care of yourself. Being a well-kept attractive woman, working in a larger club with good volume, and going around the floor asking for dances outright, will make you more money, or just as much money, than being someone's ATF....puhleez.
    And also, being a hustler, and having the ability to move around the room, I only have to sit when I WANT to sit with someone and they are a gentleman. Any guy who gives me a hard time about wanting to get off, gets ignored by me very quickly, as there is a room full of guys for me to ask for a dance.

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    this bothers me too brittany. all any custy can tell you is his opinion, even if he goes every single day, he doesnt interact with every different type of guy that there is, the way we do.


    thorn we are not selling sex!!! we are selling the illusion of sex.

    someone asked if she was trying to help him get off by grinding. That is what a lapdance is! some ppl grind the whole time, i don't.most dancers that arent doing extras(getting him off in one way or another)don't straddle and grind a guy for 1 or more songs. if a girl does just ride his crotch the whole time, i would assume it is to get the guy off. some girls do that. she did not want him to come and that is not her job. he is supposed to go jerk off at home or the bathroom for all i care. we are to arouse you and give you a fantasy. escort services and jack shacks is where you go to buy sex.

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Silky
    How long can a guy actually pay for an arousal? This man obviously wanted to go in there and have nice quick dry sex. There was no tease. There was no "drawing it out before he goes over the edge' for this particular customer, that approach would have not kept him as a regular.Thats what I had tried. I understand what industry I am in. Let me make my question more specific. Thorn maybe you can help out more on this one...... Do you go into the court with the intention to do everything possible to help the guy achieve his ultimate fantasy of releasing.(Within club rules)Or is everyone lucky enough to tease and have the occasional" accident of the sex industry?"
    silky do not worry that this guy was mad. this will happen when you stick to your limits.get used to guys who want more mileage than you give, getting upset and trying to make u feel guilty. you just move right on to the next guy and don't sweat it.

    it seems to me like your club is known for high mileage, this happened twice to you and once to your friend, in how short a time? maybe you should check out another club.
    most club rules do not allow his releasing, nor do most prostitution laws, in a strip club. so that is not your problem.
    you go into the court to do your job-which is give him as many dances as he wants to buy(unless he is making you uncomfortable, then leave! his money is not worth losing self-respect and someone else will make it up to you!)
    Last edited by bikinigirl04; 12-20-2004 at 05:59 AM. Reason: to add

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittany
    Whatever Thorn. I'm so sick of customers trying to say that they know EVERYTHING about how to make money in a strip club. Really.
    Brittany, all I can say [and I say it politely] is that you have no concept of marketing. Companies spend millions to do market research because they know that their customers are the best source of information on how to sell them the product the company is trying to sell.



    Since you don't want to listen to the very people who are the best source of information on how to sell your product, all I can do is wish you luck.

    And please do me the courtesy to read what I have written. I do not, not, not state that it is the job of any dancer to get her clients off. What I said is that she had an obligation to sell her product in a candid way. Hustle keeps coming off here, as used by any number of dancers, as a different way to say 'lying' or subterfuge. That is never a good way to promote anything over the long haul. All I am, and have ever been, suggesting is to find a way to sell your services that accurately portrays exactly what you have to offer abd makes no promises you don't intend to keep. Soem guys want extras, some guys want a fantasy. Just be upfront about which it is you provide and you will greatly deminish any difficulties you have with clients pushing limits or feeling cheated and potentially causing trouble.

    What, may I ask, could possibly be wrong with that?
    Last edited by Thorn; 12-20-2004 at 08:18 AM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Silky
    How long can a guy actually pay for an arousal? This man obviously wanted to go in there and have nice quick dry sex. There was no tease. There was no "drawing it out before he goes over the edge' for this particular customer, that approach would have not kept him as a regular.Thats what I had tried. I understand what industry I am in. Let me make my question more specific. Thorn maybe you can help out more on this one...... Do you go into the court with the intention to do everything possible to help the guy achieve his ultimate fantasy of releasing.(Within club rules)Or is everyone lucky enough to tease and have the occasional" accident of the sex industry?"
    You asked a specific and fair question. Let me give a specific and fair answer.

    What you can do is look within yourself and define your guidelines for the service you wish to offer. With those guidelines firmly implace and you knowing now exactly what you will and won't do to make a buck you approach your potential customers. You design your sales pitch to play to your product. Meaning you sell it to him in its best light. What you don't do is use words that give false impressions. Let him think he is able to get something you don't offer. What you do is be very positive about what you do have to offer and keep all subterfuge and dishonesty out of your negotiation tactics.

    There are all sorts of dancers and all sorts of clients. What this does is let the right dancers find the right clients. Everyone is happy because no dancer crossed any lines they made for themselves and the customer finds exactly the kind of dance he was looking for, so he isn't dissatisfied.

    Everyone has the best odds of winning when the game is played that way.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn
    Brittany, all I can say [and I say it politely] is that you have no concept of marketing. Companies spend millions to do market research because they know that their customers are the best source of information on how to sell them the product the company is trying to sell.

    Since you don't want to listen to the very people who are the best source of information on how to sell your product, all I can do is wish you luck.
    First of all Thorn, you need to tone down the attitude a bit. Second, you are incorrect in your assumptions which is why people aren't taking your opinions as being very valid. Hustling isn't lying or using subterfuge as you put it, it's selling. Plain and simple and any good salesperson doesn't rely on lying or subterfuge as you are claiming dancers on here are eluding to.

    The ORIGINAL Stripper Sales School
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    Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle. ~Abraham Lincoln

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  26. #25
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Champaigne Room release expectations

    Quote Originally Posted by bikinigirl04
    this bothers me too brittany. all any custy can tell you is his opinion, even if he goes every single day, he doesnt interact with every different type of guy that there is, the way we do.


    thorn we are not selling sex!!! we are selling the illusion of sex.

    someone asked if she was trying to help him get off by grinding. That is what a lapdance is! some ppl grind the whole time, i don't.most dancers that arent doing extras(getting him off in one way or another)don't straddle and grind a guy for 1 or more songs. if a girl does just ride his crotch the whole time, i would assume it is to get the guy off. some girls do that. she did not want him to come and that is not her job. he is supposed to go jerk off at home or the bathroom for all i care. we are to arouse you and give you a fantasy. escort services and jack shacks is where you go to buy sex.
    Again someone thinks I am saying that the dancer is obligated to get the guy off. Please read what I wrote... I'll write it again, nice and large this time

    I AM NOT STATING, NOW OR AT ANY TIME, THAT ANY DANCER IS OBLIGATED TO SELL ACTUAL SEX TO A CUSTOMER, OR HAS TO GET HIM OFF IN ANY WAY.

    Hope that registered that time.

    BG, you would have a better chance of being right if you were speaking for more dancers then just yourself.

    YOU are selling the illusion of sex, as is your right. I can assure you that many other dancers are selling sex at some level that goes beyond illusion.

    You are not taking into account that there are as many kinds of customers in S-C's as there are dancers. You aren't allowing yourself to key your particular services to the best clients to receive them. You do this by marketing honestly and gearing your sales pitch so that it hits home with the type of guy you want to see in the VIP. Someone who will appreciate what you have to give to him and is willing to pay for it. Someone who will leave with a smile on his face because you are exactly what he was looking for.

    BTW, I am no standard "custy". I worked for years in S-C's and have a great eye, good ears, and a mind that can process what it takes in. I could probably teach a course on how to maximize a dancers profits and how to attract exactly the type of client you are looking for while warding off those that should be steered [yes, you should know the other dancers in the club, what they do and steer clients you know would fit better with another dancer their way] to someone else. That way the "custy" is beholden to you for the referral and may steer friends of his your way. Its better then getting a single dance off a guy who then leaves the LDR pissed off because you sold him on expectations he had no right to have because you don't perform those sorts of services.

    Just be honest. With yourself. With your clients. It truly is the best policy.

    Thorn,
    who is wondering why this is so hard to fathom that some people are having a problem with it.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

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