View Poll Results: Does your club have $1 dances?

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Thread: That blasted dollar dance

  1. #26
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    As far as I'm concerned, there are three kinds of customers when it comes to lap dances.

    1. Guys who will buy them at full price.

    2. Guys who won't buy them at all.

    3. Guys who will only buy them when they're at a steep discount (50% or greater), and will explicitly prepare their bankroll to take advantage of that discount when it comes about.

    If they know there's a dollar dance or 2-for-1 promotion coming up in 20 minutes, why would they pay a gal for a full price dance now? I'm sure the ladies here will agree that these promotions seldom get guys from group 3 to join group 1.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

  2. #27
    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Thank you Katrine. price PLUS perception of quality equals percieved value and the ONLY way to establish that perception of a lap/VIP dance quality is by sample. We used to have WoM (Word of Mouth) but those days are gone.

    I don't claim to be omniscient (all-knowing) or omnipotent or even omnivescient but I DO Know whats going on in the industry and especially in the mindset of Management thanks to positions with several adult industry trade associations. Im just passing along info so ....... don't kill the messenger just because you don't like the message.

    You B more than anyone should know that what you're selling is not just one dance. You're selling VIP time ...Multiple dances and Regular customers. A 15-30 second sample is hardly equatable to lowering the price on anything. Now a $10 lap dance ...well thats a different story.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  3. #28
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    As far as I'm concerned, there are three kinds of customers when it comes to lap dances.

    1. Guys who will buy them at full price.

    2. Guys who won't buy them at all.

    3. Guys who will only buy them when they're at a steep discount (50% or greater), and will explicitly prepare their bankroll to take advantage of that discount when it comes about.

    If they know there's a dollar dance or 2-for-1 promotion coming up in 20 minutes, why would they pay a gal for a full price dance now? I'm sure the ladies here will agree that these promotions seldom get guys from group 3 to join group 1.
    Right, and sometimes the discount offers actually lead some guys out of group 1 and into group 3. I've seen it happen more times than not. Got a good crowd going, guys buying dances, and $ dance or 2for1 is called. All of a sudden the room full of guys who WERE asking for full price lapdances changes to a room full of guys asking for more $ dances or 2for1's for the next hour, and REFUSING to buy full price laps. Perceived value was lowered by the offer of a temporary lower price.

    DJ_Wulf: Perhaps you, just like most managers, should try putting on a thong and heels and go work a few shifts with and without $ dances. Maybe when you get tired of watching the room-full of full price buyers switch instantly to refusers and price hagglers after hearing the offer of a one-time discount or sample, you'll change your mind. Too many management types miss what's REALLY happening on the floor of a club because they're NOT the ones dealing with the customers on a direct level. Meetings and trade associations don't tell you what is REALLY going on at ground level.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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  4. #29
    God/dess MrChristopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    we don't do them, and i am glad we don't. i don't mind 2-4-1's if the room is slow and there are no dances going on anyway. BUT, yeah when i worked at 2001 in tampa we were supposed to do them once or twice an hour, and i really noticed guys coming in and waiting until i called one. it got a bit ridiculous. why pay full price when you know it will be half price in 5 minutes?
    waffles are just pancakes with little squares on them.

  5. #30
    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Doc: There is another group of guys out there. The next generation of PL's and Regulars. Those guys are just out of thier prime and looking for the companionship thier wives/GF's no longer give them. We (the indusrty) HAVE to get these guys off thier computers and into the Clubs or ALL of us (dancers, managers, DJ's and owners alike) are gonna be hurting. These are the customers who have not yet defined the PERCIEVED VALUE of a lap dance.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  6. #31
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Um Dj wulf dollar dances are nothing new. I have seen the blue collar clubs and some chain clubs doing these for around 10 years. Yeah they are ridiculous. I like brittany didnt do them either if I could when they did them briefly at a club I worked at for 6 years. They are more for girls who arent big money makers. Every single time they called one I would be with a big spending regular. One time they actually made me leave him to give non spending losers dollar dances after he gave me 100 to stay with him and not do them. Needless to say I dont like them and some girls will dance all over the guys for them. I mean even if thr club does alow contact dances save it for the 20 dollar ones please.

  7. #32
    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    I'll be the FIRST one to agree that the SCHEDULING of incentives like $1 dances and 2-4-1's is VERY IMPORTANT and cannot be done by absentee management edict. It has to be discretionary and used to stimulate a dead crowd. Unfortunately some more motivated dancers (Like Bridgette and others here at SW) will get the downside of this. Sometimes ya gotta sacrifice for the common good. If you take a Marsha Brady attitude I agree the $1 dance is a bad thing for a very few self motivated dancers.

    Happy now dear?
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  8. #33
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Oh yeah, I do understand the concept of Price + Perception of quality. In the equation
    Price + Perception of quality = Perceived Value
    When Perception of quality remains the same (most customers have some predetermined perception of dance quality), if the Price is lowered, Perceived Value will automatically be lowered. ( -Price + Perception of quality = -Perceived Value )

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  9. #34
    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    In any other industry the samples would be FREE. I Assume you're not interested in this approach either? Didn't think so and neither am I. We agree.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  10. #35
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Geeez Wulf! Always with the bitchy condescending attitude.
    No I'm not interested in providing any free samples. The day THAT starts will be the day I walk out. Plain and simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  11. #36
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    What if a fine restaurant, with fabulous filet mignons for 20$, started offering diced beef for a dollar, every hour or so? Diners with class, who want a fine dining experience, will go elsewhere. People who like McDonalds will come in droves.

    This tendency to reduce the compensation the dancers get is extremely dangerous. Though there are rare occasions or clubs where it might be good marketing--only if handled in exactly the right way, such as not forcibly trying to drag dancers away from good customers already in the fucking bag.

    10$ lapdances on special nights are becoming more common, and that's bad enough as it is, and leads the cheap guys to wait until those nights to come in. My girlfriend has lost all patience with an otherwise fairly good regular who started pulling this shit, and spending half as much money as he usually would have. Guess what, he gets less respect and care from her as a result.

    I worked in a club that did 2-4-1's very frequently all night, and another where they used this ploy to sell T-shirts, to ther extent of ruining many good crowd/moods I had painstakingly built up. Generally speaking, management likes these specials more than anyone, with some customers--the cheap ones--also being gratified. I can't stand them as a DJ, found them pathetic and absurd as a customer--and the dancers almost invariably detest them.

    It's all well and good to talk about marketing and economics, but forcing women to dance for one stinking dollar on any kind of regular basis is not only insulting, but bad business for the dancers--and thus the managers as well, if they are profiting by having a lot of high-earning dancers. Owners and customers may disagree, as is their right, but from what I have seen, it hurts more than it helps if it is done excessively or at the wrong time, and makes the girls feel cheap and exploited--not good for morale or self-confidence.

    Good morale and self-confidence will enable the dancers to make more money, for themselves, and for the owner/managers--even somewhat intelligent leeches should be able to figure this out.

    For that matter, there is no reason on this earth that a club that has any pretention of class or success should have to resort to this method. Anywhere that I was given a free hand as DJ for any length of time, it wasn't at all necessary.
    You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.
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  12. #37
    Veteran Member DJ_WuLf's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    But my mood says Happy. Maybe I'm catching dormitory syndrome by proxy. Blame it on PMS. (its a J O K E Im K I D D I N G) I really don't intend to be bitchy and condescending (well maybe a little sarcastic) but it's hard to dis-agree intelligently without sounding a bit antagonistic. Forgive me Goddess B.
    14 years working in Strip Clubs. "What a long strange trip it's been"

  13. #38
    Featured Member noelle's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    This discussion is very interesting to me. I too often see how dance specials undervalue the regular dances and stop guys from spending that would have before. I don't mind an occasional 2-4-1, but it has to be appropriately timed! I can't STAND when money is flowing all around the club, I'm selling tons of dances, and then they do a dance special that ruins everything. My club does 2-4-1s and 3 for $30s (although the songs for both of these are shortened) and I don't think they should be done more than once every 2 or 3 hours.

    A girl at our house meeting on Sunday suggested that we do dollar dances and a resounding "Oh HELL no!" went up around the room.

  14. #39
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    I think the problem is that the average manager isn't anywhere near as smart as DJ_WuLf is. Most of the guys I have worked with couldn't even form a coherent sentence, much less write it down...

    Where WuLf might use the dollar dance to liven things up in a slow club or on a slow night, without taking dancers away from good-paying customers in the process, the kind of mentally-impaired (possibly even drug-addled) bozos I have worked with would insist on doing it at exactly the wrong time, after we have gotten a crowd all riled up and ready to go--distracting and possibly insulting the dancers with pointless specials which only detract from the mood and ruin it for everyone.
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  15. #40
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    LMAO DJoser! I think you've got it

    As I said earlier I don't really mind $ dances when it's used appropriately, to rile up a slow room. But ferchrissakes! don't pull me away from a full-price buyer in the couch room to send me to some cheapass waving a $1!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

  16. #41
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    The benefit of dollar dances depends on how and when they are done.

    In some clubs I work or have worked in, when we get off stage we approach guys for dollar dances.

    In others it is a tool used to increase the floor momentum in the club when the crowd isn't buying many dances.

    I work in some smaller clubs now where I suggest to the DJ when dances aren't selling and a dollar dance run may be beneficial.

    An issue I feel needs to be addressed with many dancers is to view customers as you would view yourselves.

    In this supply sided economy, the masses don't all have lots of disposable income to blow buying hundreds of dollars worth of dances.

    How many of us can walk into a better department store and buy whatever clothes hit our eye? Not many.Put additional 50% of toppers on those same clothing racks and now how many of us will buy?

    With the heavy influx of under age 30 guys patronizing clubs and coming in groups, their motivation to spend lump sum money one on one with a dancer is almost nonexistant.

    So in many clubs who don't understand or care about the importance of changing marketing strategies based on clientele, a disproportionate amount of dancers are sitting around song after song or seaching for that elusive older guy who is alone in the crowd when they could be steadily making several dollars at a clip off of the clientele that is there which can add up over a shift, and that can turn the dollar dance customer into a regular price buying one.

    When a fancy smansy club is filled up with young guys who have the opportunity of finding their future wife anywhere they go, the motivation of spending $100 + on a dancer is almost nil under normal operating conditions.

    But if that same club makes the environment fun through a jivey DJ pumping up the crowd, pushing the stage(s), and pushing $1 dances and 2/1's when money is not flowing, this forces the customers to HAVE to participate in the game and over time this can plant a seed in customers minds that if they patronize that club they will be obligated to buy dances.

    When a club has a larger than average older crowd where dances are selling, discount promos aren't needed.

    Clubs need to give the DJ's latitude to run promos when the money is not flowing and managers should not just blanketly run them night after night with no regard to what is happening dancewise on the floor.

    As I always say big money customers alone will not give a dancer a solid annual dancing income. Steady money makes or breaks a dancer. Having a $175 night as a result of working a less than ideal crowd creatively is the difference in a dancer that has a great year bottomline wise and a not so great one. A $175 night is not always bad.

    Some guys give you $5 or so for a dollar 20 second dance and if you make $50 on dollar dances and those dances pump the floor momentum up to where you can sell a few of the same guys who bought a dollar dance some regular priced ones that first $1 could turn into $120-$140 which you would not have made if the crowd wasn't forced into the game.

    For a dancer who works 240 days a year and who has 80 days where the crwod is what I described above that is an additional $11,200 in income she wouldn't have had.

    If I had $140 for every night I didn't make my payout back over the last 7 years I would be debt free.

    It is unfortunate that some corporate clubs don't use discretion when calling dance specials, but wise dancers who are "in good" with managers can try to get them to allow the DJ to call specials only when dance buying is sluggish.

  17. #42
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    [QUOTE=DJ_WuLf]I'll be the FIRST one to agree that the SCHEDULING of incentives like $1 dances and 2-4-1's is VERY IMPORTANT and cannot be done by absentee management edict. It has to be discretionary and used to stimulate a dead crowd. Unfortunately some more motivated dancers (Like Bridgette and others here at SW) will get the downside of this. Sometimes ya gotta sacrifice for the common good. If you take a Marsha Brady attitude I agree the $1 dance is a bad thing for a very few self motivated dancers.

    Happy now dear?[/QUOTE

    This sooooooo does NOT make sense. It does NOT motivate a room. HELLO. Most guys in clubs where this was done don't even want the $ dance. LOL. So you have a bunch of guys saying NO to a bunch of girls walking around topless....way to get these unmotivated strippers motivated! LMAO! And most of the guys who DO get the $ dance, came into the club specifically to get the $ dances, and leave soon after it's over with. As for the guys in group one who still get the dollar dances, they often don't get $20 dances from the girls after the $ dance....why should they? They've already had the goods shoved in their face. So this leads to girls getting nastier and nastier for the few guys who are getting the $ dance in hopes that they WILL get a $20 dance for "more services" later.
    And as for men not perceiving the value of a dance....come on now....there aren't many men out there who don't know the "value" of a dance due to the media, bachelor parties, entertaining clients, etc. Okay....well maybe 5%-10% out of men out there still might not know....but will this 5% - 10% really make a difference? I don't think so. They will have entered a titty bar world where the dancers have been devalued, degraded, and exploited. I'm so tired of MEN who work in strip clubs RUINING this business. They're thinking "But hey....if advertising $ dances gets more of the little guys in town to run to the titty bar to get a beer or two, it just might make up for all the big spenders who used to come in when I actually did my job making sure the dancers were attractive and professional, rules enforced, and created an enviroment where white collar men could feel comfortable spending thousands a night...."
    It's simply another case of owners who have let (or are letting) their clubs slide downhill so that they can attract many small tabs to make up for the large ones that don't walk through the door anymore.
    Dollar dances, ten dollar dances, five dollar dances SUCK.

  18. #43
    mermaidnz
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    omg! one dollar dance!?!

    we charge $70USD here per song, but its shitty and no one soes for them cos its too expensive.

    i thnk 20-40 bucks is reasonable tho.

    one dollar? nu huh. they should tip you that on stage regardless

  19. #44
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittany

    This sooooooo does NOT make sense. It does NOT motivate a room. HELLO. Most guys in clubs where this was done don't even want the $ dance. LOL. So you have a bunch of guys saying NO to a bunch of girls walking around topless....way to get these unmotivated strippers motivated! LMAO!
    Exactly! Some guys on the floor aren't even willing to spend a lousy dolla! So a dancer comes up to 3-4 guys over the course of a minute and gets rejected, she will feel pretty dejected that she isn't worth a dollar, and that affects the mood of the room. If half of the guys aren't even willing to get a cute 30-second teasing airdance, then half of the dancers are stuck walking around begging, and having to move on quickly. This domino effect can efffectively kill the mood of the room because of a few assholes. At least during normal dance times, when the girl approaches customer, she has time to introduce herself, bend over suggetively, make a clever comment, etc....not during flashdance.

    Still, I've done it so many times and its been fun because there were good customers tipping more than $1 for each 30 second run. BUT BUT BUT, if a dancer is seated with a money spending customer, management SHOULD NOT make her leave him. That just hurts everyone involved, how fucking stupid is that?

    I know why they do it. The girls sitting with the spending customers are the most attractive, and best hustlers, girls like Brittany, Bridg, NinaD, and dare I say, myself. They know that if they pull us away from customers, we will be pissed but we will give 100% and make the club look good. But hey, we are independant contractors, NOT their employees. We are not utilitarians here. I could care less about the greater good about the club, I care about my own profit and I know how to do this through customer satisfaction...

    End rant. That is all I am going to say about this......

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  20. #45
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    If a dancer dislikes cheaper dances then they are not working in a club that makes customers feel obligated to buy them.

    Quite franky most clubs nowadays don't do a good job of making guys feel obligated to buy multiple dances.

    Clubs in the Southwest have $10 dances and guys are used to being approached by girls one after another to buy them. So in a good volume club in that area you will almost never see a song where no one is table dancing.

    Clubs have gotten so focused on pushing the "upsale" that it takes using psychology big time on customers to get them to spend money.

    The more expensive something is, the more time needed in selling it.

    Bring a $10 dance into an area where dances are $20 and the guys are not pushed to buy them and even at $10 they won't sell as well as in the Southwest.

    Customers need to be "conditioned" to buy dances.

    At one club I work at in South Dakota the club constantly pushes dances and every dancer is booked and works M-Sat. We all get $400 club pay and a $10 bonus for every 20 dances we sell. 80 is the goal.

    Some of the regular older guys come in on Saturday and ask their favorite dancers how many more dances do they need for 80 if they haven't reached it already and will help them reach the goal.

    This club is easier to sell dances in than most in the area because guys have been "programmed" to buy them.

    So if you guys work at clubs where the stage and tipping is not pushed and where buying dances is not pushed by the DJ, girl after girl asking for dances is not experienced by the guys, and the customer does not see table dances being done all around him during every song, selling any type of dance to a customer will be harder.

    In momentumless clubs training must start somewhere. Why not with a dollar dance?

    And quite frankly, some dancers do not approach the customers enthusiastically when merchandise or dollar dances are announced.

    No one will buy from a dancer no matter how cheap the dance if the dancer is less than enthusiastic about selling it, right?

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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    See...the thing is...I don't see it being any harder to sell "upscale" than "dollar dance". I've worked in some of the top upscale clubs in the country, and have managed to sell champagne rooms for 400/500 per hour no problem. Why? Because the guys in these clubs were used to paying these prices, and the club attracted men who could afford it.
    Now, with the dollar dances, $10 happy hour specials, and $5 dollar dances all night specials, the customers aren't used to having to shell out any dough anymore. And I've seen these clubs go from semi-upscale to ghetto in a matter of a few years.
    And the motivation of most of the strippers in town has gotten lower and lower with each passing year...why? Because 95% of the strippers in town aren't making what they used to be able to make five or six years ago, because dance prices keep getting lower and lower, and customers keep getting cheaper and cheaper and more ghetto and blue-collar.
    One of my friends used to teach marketing at the University of Texas. He told me once about this marketing theory where the more you charge for a product, the more value this product is percieved to have, and the better it will sell. For instance fine wine. Charge more for it, and people will buy it in droves. But no one really wants to drink cheap wine. Same with strippers.

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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    you know, i think both brittany and tina are correct. i work at a nude byob club with topless table dancing and nude VIP dancing. when it is a 'slow' night (sun-tues), table dances are 10. but the guys who come in ALWAYS want naked dances. and those are ALWAYS 20, even on the discounted table dance nights. and because the guys on any day of the week know they have to go VIP if they want a private nude dance, it can be easier to upsell to VIP after doing a few 10$ table dances on the slower days. i end up making more money per customer on those days compared to the busier days in the week.

    so tina is right that cheaper dance prices can help in slower clubs or on slower days, and brittany is right that you can't discount your prime sales item. if the nude dances were ever discounted, i wouldn't make decent money on slower nights since for my club, that's the upsell item. for a topless club with a VIP/champagne area/rooms under 100, it really should be 20/song all the time, with it being 10 MAYBE 1-2 times a night on slow nights (for 2-4 songs total that night). but that's just my theory on how it should be, and you also wouldn't want to discount the VIP fee on a regular basis, perhaps a 1- song special on slow nights.

    my club mostly is working class, but because they never discount them naked dances, guys come in prepared to drop 50-100 for VIP dances. not huge money, but the club gets in steady enough business to make selling 4-6 of those guys a night (300-500) possible just about any day of the week (without extras or high contact), with 600-1k nights totally doable on fri/sat without extras or standard houston levels of contact. which is consistent money, a rarity in many places.

    sadly, crappy management has started doing stuff like t-shirt specials and firing staff that the dancers liked, so it may yet end up a dollar dance kind of joint. i totally hope not, though.

  23. #48
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    I agree with perceived value being higher when price is higher, IF the clientele is at the level that is concerned with prestige and the finer things in life.

    Dance prices have gone up across the board over the last decade, BUT during the new millennium, a clientele shift has been experienced in many clubs to where the amount of customers able and willing to part with large amounts of money has dropped.

    In sync with society at large nowadays people want value for thier money moreso nowadays.

    Also many "target" club customers being men aged 35-65 who come in alone, are being replaced with guys in groups under 30 years old, who are not at the stage in their life where they need to pay chunks of money for companionship with dancers their own age.

    I am not advocating dance promos and dollar dances all the time. But many times when dances are not selling and the clientele is not the Nordstrom type male, some prompting is needed to get the dollars flowing.

    Dances sell faster and easier at some clubs compared to others, so how and when dance promos are used really depends on how well dances are moving at regular prices where a dancer work, as to if or when they are used.

  24. #49
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    What I've been trying to say...is one of the reasons why many clubs have experienced a clientele shift is due to the clubs lowering their standards.
    This is one of those standards.
    Most white collar guys don't feel special hanging out in a place where the dancers are only perceived to be worth $10, $5, or $1. But many young guys, and blue collar guys do. Slowly, clubs that have dance specials turn ghetto. Seen it time and time again.

    There are many other ways to advertise and promote a club and it's girls, that wouldn't entail devaluing or exploiting them. This type of promotion only attracts cheap people. Kind of like when a club has a free buffet. Cheap guys come in droves to get the food, and get NO dances. Most of the paying customer don't even bother showing up until after the buffet is shut down in clubs like this.

  25. #50
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    Default Re: That blasted dollar dance

    ohgod, you are so right re: cheap or free buffets!

    re: dance prices, you are also right about lowering them too often. when the dances are 10, you will still get a few jerks who want them for 5 and will expect you to dance half a song for a single dollar.


    the problem, as i see it, is not that you're wrong, but that people still keep opening clubs and girls still line up around the block to dance topless or naked. i'm not sure in such a flooded market how to approach marketing stripping so it's less seedy and more 'erotic fun'. maybe if somehow most clubs were kinda go-go oriented or something and yet a girl could still make 2-3 hundred a night that way, or polish herself up and try her luck at the hostess-style gentlemen's clubs, of which those would be 10-20 percent of a given area's clubs but the earning potential was better. i don't know, it's a difficult problem.

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