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Thread: Iran.....what a shithole

  1. #26
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by scorpio
    their political culture should be exterminated
    That's the ticket (imo)! I have traveled the world pretty widely and generally see things with a "cultural relativism" perspective, but the cultures of the Middle East are among the most inhuman and cruel I have ever encountered, and I fear it runs deeper than just politics. It is a matter of fundamental values, really.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by GnBeret
    there's much in both the people and the place that make it a very enchanting region of the world in a lot of different ways... but you'll miss it all if you're unable to rid yourself of preconceived notions and go into it with an open mind.
    Notwithstanding my previous post, this is exceptionally good advice...for anywhere, not just the ME. Whatever a place turns out to be like, it is virtually never what you expected unless you go in with blinders already firmly in place.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    You don't know how I normally dress. Women in Iran wear headscarfs in public, its an old tradition for an old country. In private, they dress the same as we do....
    Normally dress as in you DON'T wear scarf's// whatever the hell they wear from head to toe.

    Seriouly, maybe you need to go to university instead of Iraq and learn a little more.
    learn?? Maybe you should LEARN first hand expierence.

    Im not just talking about Iran either, the entire middle east sucks ass.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by GnBeret
    It's the GOVERNMENT currently in power, Gabe! Prior to 1979, she could have gone to Iran, dressed just as she does here, and would have had no problem whatsoever - prior to 1979, the legal system in Iran had been divorced from religion for nearly two decades, women had been accorded the right to vote (as well as most other basic rights - look up the Family Protection Act of the mid-60's), and it was considered perfectly acceptable for women to wear "western-style" clothing. In the decade prior to the fall of the Shah, Iran was considered THE most "westernized" country in the Mid-East!
    Ooh! Someone who knows what they are talking about! You are absolutely right. I've seen pictures from the sixties and my grandfather's wife (who's white) was wearing "normal" clothes.

    I do agree that for the most part the women are innocent and the children definately are.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe
    Normally dress as in you DON'T wear scarf's// whatever the hell they wear from head to toe.


    learn?? Maybe you should LEARN first hand expierence.

    Im not just talking about Iran either, the entire middle east sucks ass.
    Yea... I am no fan of middle eastern culture.

    It is pretty hard on the body - there being a lot of removal of various body parts, ass kickin's for both men and women, hunger, etc.

    If you are part of the super wealthy, you can hide away (or leave the country for "business"), but the common person living by the rules and norms just makes life miserable for themselves and a lot of other people.

    Saudi Arabia is #1 on my shithole list, but Iran is probably a close second.

    What they really example is the danger of mixing religion and government.

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by anonymous1
    Ooh! Someone who knows what they are talking about! You are absolutely right. I've seen pictures from the sixties and my grandfather's wife (who's white) was wearing "normal" clothes.

    I do agree that for the most part the women are innocent and the children definately are.
    The women are just as indoctrinated. Children are in the process of being indoctrinated.

    The good news, is that I hear a lot of the young people - who didn't live through the "revolution" and make up a good portion of the population - are not really happy with what is going on. And sniffing democracy on each border is a high they are willing to reach for.

    (And talking about indoctrination, what the hey is the indoctrination to our children that being a fool, thug, or sports star (seems to be the first two rolled into one now days) is better than being an engineer or ... educated in general.)

  7. #32
    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Yea... I am no fan of middle eastern culture.

    It is pretty hard on the body - there being a lot of removal of various body parts, ass kickin's for both men and women, hunger, etc.
    Yea, well, from what I can tell, San Quentin, Parchman, Angola, etc., are pretty damned hard on the body too... especially since we not only tolerate, but actually joke openly about the incredibly high levels of sexual assault that take place in our prison system - a system, by the way, that allows the U.S. to keep more of its population (on a percentage basis) under lock and key than any other country in the world. Capital punishment's pretty hard on the body too, especially when you're innocent... which, unfortunately, an ever-growing body of evidence strongly indicates has likely been the case on several different occasions. As for ass kickin's, hunger, etc., take a good look around inner city New Orleans, Detroit, Washington, D.C., etc.......

    Pot? ........................... Kettle?

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  8. #33
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by GnBeret
    Yea, well, from what I can tell, San Quentin, Parchman, Angola, etc., are pretty damned hard on the body too... especially since we not only tolerate, but actually joke openly about the incredibly high levels of sexual assault that take place in our prison system - a system, by the way, that allows the U.S. to keep more of its population (on a percentage basis) under lock and key than any other country in the world. Capital punishment's pretty hard on the body too, especially when you're innocent... which, unfortunately, an ever-growing body of evidence strongly indicates has likely been the case on several different occasions. As for ass kickin's, hunger, etc., take a good look around inner city New Orleans, Detroit, Washington, D.C., etc.......

    Pot? ........................... Kettle?

    People in glass houses...
    Yea - but the difference is, while these things certainly happen - we don't approve of them happening or acknowledge it is the system gone awry. I don't think we have a court saying "Tie his arm to a board and remove the hand by sword" or "Thirty lashes for drinking a beer."

    Poverty: Being poor in America is a whole lot different than being poor "out there." We got poor people with two color TVs. It is bad that the US mostly see's the impoverished as "lazy" or "foolish." There was a time in the past, where one said the wheel of fortune dispensed random fate of fortune or disfortune to the fortunate and disfortunate. It was the universe that played a role in this.

    Prison System: I always have to smirk a little when I hear someone go on about how "that rapist" is going to get "his in the rear" when he goes to jail. "Uh hum," I say, "Don't you think, it is the rapists who do the raping in prison? Really what we have done, is put one more shark circling the waters looking to butt rape that kid we put in there for having to much pot in his car." Way to many people in prison - though the rudeness has gone down a lot of those who had a chip on their shoulder.

    Capital Punishment: I got mixed feelings on that one. For that dude slicing heads off like serving turkey at Thanksgiving - I don't think I would cry to much for his death. We are letting the system slide into corruption because we are so against "the rights of the criminal" when we forget those really are the "rights of the innocent."

    (I swear one of these days I am going to write a "How to talk to a conservative" book.)

    But then, as you probably know - there is some comfort in repeating to yourself "Death is a natural part of life" especially an hour or so after saying "Holy Shit! Are they actually shooting at me? Fuck! Yea! They are shooting at me! These people want to kill me!"

    Death is a natural part of life.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe
    Normally dress as in you DON'T wear scarf's// whatever the hell they wear from head to toe.


    learn?? Maybe you should LEARN first hand expierence.

    Im not just talking about Iran either, the entire middle east sucks ass.
    Disturbing.

    It seems to me that our military should be making sure their boys all know what a burka is at this stage in the game.

    Last edited by LauraLove; 12-17-2004 at 10:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    Gabe.

    Ah, to be 19 and know everything again
    Nothing but disillusionment ahead, but they were good days of passionate belief and ideals.

    Sometimes I still have them myself.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraLove
    Disturbing.

    It seems to me that our military should be making sure their boys all know what a burka is at this stage in the game.

    For the record, the proper term in Iran for the full body covering is a chador. And these days, only devoutly religious women still wear them in the streets.

    I deal with Arabs and Persians all the time as a bellydancer. I work in their clubs and restaurants. I've lived in the middle east, althought it was in Israel, you'd better believe there wasn't much western about that country.

    I have many criticisms about Middle Eastern culture, but at least I did my homework.

    When you enter a war zone full of displaced people that hate you Gabe, I doubt you will have a chance to learn that there are many warm and endearing people from the middle east.

    Just simple cultural relativism is all I ask, read something positive about the history of the area, or even meet and speak with a person from there, instead of just watching Fox News.....

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe
    Sad to say, but it seems that 90% of iranian MALES are nasty individuals over there. They are so controlling over women over there and treat them like shit.
    Forget about the government, they are corrupt and ignorant.
    You could be talking about the U.S. too.

    We execute the mentally ill and challenged in the U.S. all the time.

    While what's happened to this girl is undoubtedly a tragedy, it's not unheard of for parents in America to pimp out their kids too.

    People are fucked up in every country. Women in this country have been put to death or sent to prison for life for killing their abusers in self-defense.

    The entire world is misogynistic, just to varying degrees.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

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  13. #38
    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Yea - but the difference is, while these things certainly happen - we don't approve of them happening or acknowledge it is the system gone awry. I don't think we have a court saying "Tie his arm to a board and remove the hand by sword" or "Thirty lashes for drinking a beer."
    Yea, you're right, the difference between purposefully setting up a barbaric system and acknowledging a system's gone awry (i.e., become equally barbaric) while repetitively making the conscious decision to allow it to remain that way for decades on end is apparent. And as we only have courts saying "strap him down and kill him by lethal injection" or "2 years imprisonment for smoking a joint," there's clearly no comparison.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Poverty: Being poor in America is a whole lot different than being poor "out there." We got poor people with two color TVs. It is bad that the US mostly see's the impoverished as "lazy" or "foolish." There was a time in the past, where one said the wheel of fortune dispensed random fate of fortune or disfortune to the fortunate and disfortunate. It was the universe that played a role in this.
    Yea, well, the people I see living beneath the underpasses and digging in restaurant dumpsters for food look pretty f****** poor to me! So far as I can tell, when you're hungry, cold, and in dire need of medical attention, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of difference whether you're "here" or "out there."

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Prison System: I always have to smirk a little when I hear someone go on about how "that rapist" is going to get "his in the rear" when he goes to jail. "Uh hum," I say, "Don't you think, it is the rapists who do the raping in prison? Really what we have done, is put one more shark circling the waters looking to butt rape that kid we put in there for having to much pot in his car." Way to many people in prison - though the rudeness has gone down a lot of those who had a chip on their shoulder.
    One of the biggest growth industries in this country, and shows no sign of tapering off anytime soon... but despite the seemingly endless flow of funds for building more prison space, there's just never enough money to adequately staff and operate them such that the inmates would be protected from each other while they're serving their time. Regardless of how they wound up there, none of them were sentenced to be raped, or worse - and the fact that we've knowingly continued to tolerate this kind of system for such an incredibly long time speaks volumes about who we really are as a society underneath this righteous, "progressive" facade we try to maintain as we galavant around the globe calling people "barbaric" while we try to teach them how to be like us... at the point of a gunbarrel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Capital Punishment: I got mixed feelings on that one. For that dude slicing heads off like serving turkey at Thanksgiving - I don't think I would cry to much for his death. We are letting the system slide into corruption because we are so against "the rights of the criminal" when we forget those really are the "rights of the innocent."
    If I had any reasonable degree of confidence that the system could be made to work as it's supposed to, most, though not all (e.g., costs) of my objections would be satisfied. But having seen the system from the inside, I not only know better, but also know it simply cannot be fixed - there are just too many fundamental flaws in too many of the basic components of the system to make it feasible to do so.


    And this is just the "superficial" crap! If you really want to start seriously considering who the "barbarians" are here... "us" or "them'... you'll run out of truly ugly shit to point long before I will - guaranteed.
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    You could be talking about the U.S. too.

    We execute the mentally ill and challenged in the U.S. all the time.

    While what's happened to this girl is undoubtedly a tragedy, it's not unheard of for parents in America to pimp out their kids too.

    People are fucked up in every country. Women in this country have been put to death or sent to prison for life for killing their abusers in self-defense.

    The entire world is misogynistic, just to varying degrees.
    No, that's why we have several court systems here in the United States. You can not execute someone who is mentally ill. Many professional doctors analyze the person to determine if they are mentally ill, or playing the get out of jail free card. Can't compare U.S. law to iranian law. That's just stupid.


    Disturbing.

    It seems to me that our military should be making sure their boys all know what a burka is at this stage in the game.


    Burka is what the women wear in Afghanistan. Its called something different in Iran.
    Last edited by GirlFriday; 12-22-2004 at 04:35 PM.

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    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    all back to the same statement: no matter how you look at it, no matter how you slice it, Iran is a 4 th world, primative, backward shithole. period. full stop. end of story.

    many, if not most of the people there are good, capable of civilisation, and love freedom. However, they are governed by one of the most backwards, dangerous, and plain homicidally crazy governments on the planet. They do not value human life. liberty, or the persuit of happiness in any way, shape, or form, and until the Iranian people grow a set of balls and overthrow their religeously fanatic government, they will continue to be the icing on the ash heap of civilization.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    For the record, the proper term in Iran for the full body covering is a chador. And these days, only devoutly religious women still wear them in the streets.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe
    No, that's why we have several court systems here in the United States. You can not execute someone who is mentally ill. Many professional doctors analyze the person to determine if they are mentally ill, or playing the get out of jail free card. Can't compare U.S. law to iranian law. That's just stupid.
    Uh, yeah we do. There have been dozens of proven instances, especially in needle-happy Texas. I'll be more then happy to point you towards the info.
    Scorpio, you're talking about a homicidal country run by right-wing religious fanatics? Are you SURE you're not talking about the U.S.?
    Last edited by GirlFriday; 12-22-2004 at 04:37 PM.
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Gabe,

    Please, do us a favor and actually start reading history books on Iran, then read some books on the current affairs going on in Iran, and also start reading books and articles by Thomas Friedman about the Middle East and Iran/Persia in general.

    A few facts about Iran for you:

    After September 11 th they were the only Muslim Middle Eastern country to throw a Candle Light Vigil mourning our losses compared to our "Friends" in the region who threw a party celabrating the attack.

    Most Persians absolutely hate the Islamic Fundlementalists in Charge of the Country(Religious Counsel). These fundelmentalists are completely in charge of everything in that region. These Fundmentalists are so hated; that during the last Iranian Elections they barred every opposition reformist canidate from running and jailed reformist journalists because the would lose their power by a landslide. Even most of the students who stormed our embassy in 1979 hate the Government thats in charge there now, as the new regime turned out to be just as despotic as the Shah was back then.

    The Iranians are Shite Muslims, while the rest of the Arab world is Sunni Muslim-- they hate each other with a passion.

  19. #44
    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe
    You can not execute someone who is mentally ill. Many professional doctors analyze the person to determine if they are mentally ill, or playing the get out of jail free card.
    Let me let you in on a nasty little secret re the way the court system actually works here, Gabe... the doctors who're doing the analyzing are what's called "expert witnesses," and I can find you any number of eminently qualified physicians who will testify that the results of their analysis are "X" [fill in the blank... makes no difference which side of the case you're on, GET IT???]. And withoout getting into too much detail, so long as there is evidence in the record to support the conclusion reached, i.e., "he's not mentally ill," it will be upheld on appeal.
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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Uh, yeah we do. There have been dozens of proven instances, especially in needle-happy Texas. I'll be more then happy to point you towards the info, but I have to warn you that some of the articles have big words in them.
    Compare them to Iran and the other middle eastern countries.

    Please, do us a favor and actually start reading history books on Iran, then read some books on the current affairs going on in Iran, and also start reading books and articles by Thomas Friedman about the Middle East and Iran/Persia in general.
    That's not my job.

    There are always exceptions DJoser. Gabe just exemplifies the standard rule...
    Look who's talking. You had nothing constructive to add to this argument other then multiple personal attacks on me. (Which I could care less)
    So mrs. "Adult" got something to add?

    You guys like Iran, I hate it. Bottom line. When I go over to iraq in 2 weeks, while the rest of you sit here, i'll see how it really is. Everyone can read the news, and hundreds of textbooks, but to expierence it is a different story.

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    Default Re: Iran.....what a shithole

    Gabe hunny, I haven't added anything more to the discussion because it falls on deaf ears - or should I say blind eyes. You have your mind made up and are totally closed to any new information.

    Please, when you go over to Iraq, be sure to remember it's not the same as Iran. And you'll learn much much more from your experience if you open your eyes just a bit. This thread has 4 pages of info which you have completely ignored - hopefully you'll soon figure out that is NOT the way to learn anything and take the blinders off.

    Of course, the military loves boys like you, easy to convince to go over with guns ablazin, justified or not

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