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Thread: Extras girls

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    I'm going to copy and paste my reply in the thread about the new San Antonio ordinances. It goes out to all you guys who willingly accept extras, or seek extras in the strip clubs.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Katrine
    What a shame, I'm sure all of those dirty clubs you love Ed, are a good reason why this ordinance passed.

    Thanks for nothing raincoaters.
    .

    Yeah. I often wonder why these guys just don't have some respect for the law and go someplace else. The strip club was supposed to be the place for entertainment, not sex acts. Now, through crappy managment, it's changed in a lot of places. Thus, we get these crappy ordinances because once the LE sees that Mgmt is no longer going to voluntarily do their job, LE passes ordinances to try to MAKE them do their job.
    Raincoaters: If a girl offers you extras, please suggest that she meet you out of the club for them later. Really. And then only see her out of the club for said activities. Quit having absolutely no respect for the rest of us trying to make a living without breaking the law. Your behavior and reluctance to be a true "john" is slowly ruining the business in a lot of areas, and the day will come when the clubs are forced out of business all together.

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    I've never asked for or sought an extra in my life, but God knows I've received the moderated variety on more than a few occasions without the slightest provocation on my part. Many dancers that I've met take no qualms about initiating said activities.
    When I first started going to SCs--back in 1990--I didn't even know you could get extras from girls; it just didn't seem particularly common. Now you can't swing a dead cat in a club without hitting two girls that will offer everything short of FS at discount prices with nothing more than an exchange of names, if that. For myself, it's always been just too unseemly in a club and not the reason I visit in the first place, but I can see where there's lots of guys that will take what's offered or ask what's available in the VIP rooms because of what's been discussed here.

    Not to make this thread an echo chamber, but I will resonate what has been said here about subpar dancers seeming to make up the bulk of extras girls. I'm trying to recall a dancer that offered me extras that was normally what I'd find worthy of consideration in other circumstances, and I can't.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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  3. #53
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    This stuff is happening all the time all around, in some places worse than others, but it's definitely trending this way everywhere.
    A point that has been made before but which is well worth repeating, imo, is that it is not just strip clubs that are trending toward being more sexually permissive; out whole culture is moving steadily in that direction. TV, movies, magazines, the way ordinary people dress in public, behavior of celebrities, what is reported in the news.

    Most dancers know this but may not be old enough to fully appreciate how strong the trend has been for decades now. Stuff that hardly raises an eyebrow today would have been a major scandal 3 or 4 decades back.

    So it is hardly surprising that strip clubs, like all forms of entertainment, are also becoming more permissive.

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  4. #54
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Yeah, that's why there was such a stink made over Janet Jackson's pastie-covered breast. FCC meetings, fines, network regulations... Real permissive there. LOL

    I agree though, times are different now.

    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL
    So what's a poor working girl to do? Some resort to extras. Frankly I'm glad that many of you won't do that. What other options are there?
    Accept the lowered earnings potential, work harder and more hours, constantly work to improve sales skills, work to maximize profits during business hours (get as many dances as you can as fast as you can), travel, move to areas where choices are better. STILL, money potential is WAAAAAAYYY lower now than in the 90s. I only wish I'd been able to start dancing earlier to learn the ropes BEFORE the bubble burst.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    When I first started going to SCs--back in 1990--I didn't even know you could get extras from girls; it just didn't seem particularly common. Now you can't swing a dead cat in a club without hitting two girls that will offer everything short of FS at discount prices with nothing more than an exchange of names, if that. For myself, it's always been just too unseemly in a club and not the reason I visit in the first place, but I can see where there's lots of guys that will take what's offered or ask what's available in the VIP rooms because of what's been discussed here.
    As somebody who was on stage in the 90's, I can vouch for the fact that your assumptions are essentially correct !

    I also agree that the trend towards more and more extras in clubs is very similar to steroid use by college/amateur athletes or, for that matter, to cleaning services which employ illegal aliens. In all three cases, certain participants are breaking the law in order to obtain a competitive advantage. This leaves those participants who are not also breaking the law with a dilemma - obey the law and 'lose out', start breaking the law yourself in order to remain competitive, or quit. However, extras in clubs is different in one way - LE agencies are often not very discriminating when it comes to making busts, such that law abiding dancers are exposed to significant risk of being (bogusly) busted right along with dancers actually offering extras.

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    people complain about this and not other activities because not only is it illegal - it has to do also with safety- i'm sorry but i got hired to be a stripper/entertainer and being a whore or letting some weirdo with lord knows what shove something in me or touch my body is just rediculous- and that's an understatement- i mean, with all the stds floating around in the world all us women should not have to be made to feel like we must risk our lives to compete with other girls who need to do so just to make money- we've got a girl in our club right now who does "extras" such as grinding ( we do fully nude air dances) and tounging men's ears, biting their necks etc even kissing them on the mouth.....and to top it all of customers have been asking why i don't charge half price like she does?? i don't feel i should have to compete with that- it brings the whole club down....why lower the price of your naked ass and then kiss the guy's ass who is willing to pay half price for you...cuz that's all you're worth to the guy apparently....doing extras/discounts and whatever else is rediculous just because someone else is willing to contract something/put their health on the line for their ten dollars shouldn't mean that we all need to be patronized when we aren't willing to do that with our bodies. a trucker speeding to make better time on deliveries - in no way compares to having your crotch unwantedly grabbed because "it was ok with another girl so why not you."

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by leeah
    a trucker speeding to make better time on deliveries - in no way compares to having your crotch unwantedly grabbed because "it was ok with another girl so why not you."
    Precisely.

    This is why some women get "emotional" about the topic, which in no way robs their position of logic or veracity. Not to mess with you CO (we have bickered more than enough in PP, lol), you are a smart guy, and a gentleman, but I don't find the blue site to be a bastion of dispassionate philosophical reason.

    I get emotional about it, sometimes. It is revolting to me that guys think it is acceptable to commit sexual assault on every dancer in a club, because a few of them allow it. If disgust and contempt can be labelled emotions, which isn't stretching things terribly, I am experiencing emotion when I consider the position that some guys take on the issue here.

    Go to the blue site and you will find a great deal of misplaced pride in getting dancers to perform BJs for 27.50$, plus cover charge and a tip to the waitress. This is an emotional state as well, as is indignation at a perceived close-mindedness on the part of dancers who don't want girls giving 27$ BJs in their club.

    This doesn't mean I waste any time crying in the booth when I am on duty, or harass the extras girls in any club I work in. If the managers won't do anything, I'm not going to make waves, lose my job, and be politically correct. I have been good friends with several girls who performed extras, and other than warn them they might get their asses kicked by the other girls, I didn't waste my time trying to lecture them--they wouldn't have listened anyways.

    Here it's a different matter. Here we can discuss trends in the industry that are hurting us all, and ways to circumvent extremely unpleasant working conditions without loss of income. Here we can enlighten the customer as to how it feels to have the dancer next to you in VIP grab a guy's dick, and then have that guy expect the same of you later in the night, or the guy you are dancing for right then and there.
    Last edited by Djoser; 12-19-2004 at 09:16 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser
    I get emotional about it, sometimes. It is revolting to me that guys think it is acceptable to commit sexual assault on every dancer in a club, because a few of them allow it.
    Djoser, is it your perception that "a few of them" actually allow sexual assault? In my experience, an extras girl works one of three ways:

    1. She's verbally and tactily aggressive, stick shifting right from the opening sales pitch. She'll offer something fairly high on the Extras List. By the end of the first encounter you know she's available OTC.

    2. She's coy, pressing against you and making verbal suggestions in the sales pitch. During the dance, she makes herself very easy to touch, then says "bad boy" with an impish smile as she brushes hands away after the fact. Later she explains that she has to cover her butt in case a bouncer is watching.

    3. She's a nice girl on the first encounter, then says she really likes you and heads into extraland, repeatedly saying, "I don't do this with anyone else." She may also complain about other customers wanting to do whatever, because that seems to add to her credibility.

    I'd be interested to know if dancers see other dancers upset because they succumbed to pressure and allowed someone to sexually assault them. I suspect that may well be the case, but I have never seen or heard of anything but active dancer participation.

    I did know one softly beautiful extras girl who would entice professional guys to finger her, then start crying when they were halfway in. She'd get more and more emotional until guys offered money to calm her down. She once took $500 from a customer in 15 minutes with what she called her "rape fantasy stunt." The guy was visibly shaken. I liked the dancer personally, and knew her well enough to understood her psychological reasons for doing this.

    Sometimes it's very hard to tell reality from acting, and I rarely see an extras girl ask for extra money.
    Last edited by SportsWriter2; 12-19-2004 at 08:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    Yeah, that's why there was such a stink made over Janet Jackson's pastie-covered breast. FCC meetings, fines, network regulations... Real permissive there. LOL
    I agree though, times are different now.
    I know that you are not really disagreeing with me about the long term trend toward greater permissiveness, but just to take the Janet Jackson (semi) bare breast incident as an example, it too shows how much things have changed. Say, 40 years ago, that Super Bowl halftime show could not have been shown on national television, or would have been at least as controversial if it had been, even without the so-called "malfunction" that bared her breast. The costumes she and the other performers were wearing, the way they were dancing, the words to the song...all would have been consider hugely scandalous. It is hard to imagine how much things have changed.

    (At the same time, of course, the US is one of the least sexually permissive countries in the First World; most Europeans, for example, were totally baffled by why the Janet Jackson incident was even news, much less a big deal.)

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2

    I'd be interested to know if dancers see other dancers upset because they succumbed to pressure and allowed someone to sexually assault them. I suspect that may well be the case, but I have never seen or heard of anything but active dancer participation.
    In my experience the girls that give into pressure and let customers get away with things they shouldn't tend to be young and inexperienced. They aren't quite into the dancer mentality yet that you have to be in control at all times. They still are operating on socially accepted practices that require women to submit quietly to a mans will. They are too afraid of looking stupid or prudish or of making waves. They don't want to offend or piss someone off so they just put up a half-hearted attempt at stopping it. Only later do they really realize that you don't have to put up with that type of behavior.
    Last edited by Jay Zeno; 12-20-2004 at 05:23 AM.

  11. #61
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2
    Djoser, is it your perception that "a few of them" actually allow sexual assault?

    ...I'd be interested to know if dancers see other dancers upset because they succumbed to pressure and allowed someone to sexually assault them. I suspect that may well be the case, but I have never seen or heard of anything but active dancer participation.
    Perhaps it may seem that I exceeded logic, and the reality of the situation, when I claimed that "...a few of them allow it [sexual assault]".

    Not so...

    If a guy shoves his hands into a woman's panties, without specifically asking her if this is acceptable to her, and then proceeds to shove one of his fingers up her p*ssy, again without asking specifically if this is OK, it would be considered sexual assault, anywhere else but in a fucking stripclub.

    In a stripclub, especially one with heavy extras going on, this is not at all unusual. The dancers may or may not accept the invading hands or digits. In the nicest club in Detroit, fully half of all the 'respectable' businessmen who buy VIP dances will automatically try to finger the dancers. Many of the dancers will let them. Some will stop the process. Some of these 'gentlemen' will persist, even against all but the firmest physical resistance, without specifically asking if their physical actions are acceptable. Assuming it will be so, or that it's ok to at least try this hard, since others allow it.

    When a high-spirited but slightly naive friend of mine started in this classiest of establishments, the house mom recommended that she wear a tampon to help prevent uninvited fingers from invading her vagina. This would hardly be necessary in a situation where men only tried to finger fuck women who had specifically invited this to occur.

    If sexual assault be defined as grabbing a woman's ass, breasts, or p*ssy without her express permission, then sexual assault is well-neigh universal in stripclubs, and a great deal of it comes from the male employees of the clubs. Such as any of the three--DJ, bouncer, or manager--that attempted to grab a dancer friend of mine's ass one of her first nights in a new club. Customers regularly grab the asses of dancers, and sometimes think it is quite amusing if this is not received well.

    But perhaps this latter definition of sexual assault, though legally accurate, is too strict.

    By the way, how many coaches who "break down" a new football player accept a blowjob from him?
    Last edited by Djoser; 12-20-2004 at 02:21 AM.
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    When a friend of mine started in this classiest of establishments, the house mom recommended that she wear a tampon to help prevent uninvited fingers from invading her vagina. This would hardly be necessary in a situation where men only tried to finger fuck women who had specifically invited this to occur.
    Since the housemom advised the new dancer, does that mean that management knows what's going on and allows it to happen?
    --



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    Default Re: Extras girls

    djoser i love reading your posts
    that kind of shit makes me so mad. these kinds of things are what is degrading, not, as some people seems to think it should be, the act of stripping and lapdancing.
    i wish guys would realize that girls do not just dance around naked in the street! we are doing them a favor by having a place to come see naked girls. they are doing us a favor by coming in. why cant they treat us with some respect. obviously not all custies do this or we would not do it if we didn't like it. it is not the norm. but it is way too common, especially with management/staff at some places. a manager or bouncer slapping my ass (especially if we are not that friendly with each other) makes me feel worse than a slob out on the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeppeSai
    Since the housemom advised the new dancer, does that mean that management knows what's going on and allows it to happen?
    If a reporter or government official asked management if they were aware this shit was going on, the answer would almost certainly be no.

    In reality, management is generally well aware of what is happening in the VIP room of their own club, and generally speaking will do very little to stop it. Management usually makes more money from extras activities, so they usually could give a rat's ass about the moral/legal issues involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by bikinigirl04
    ...it is way too common, especially with management/staff at some places. a manager or bouncer slapping my ass (especially if we are not that friendly with each other) makes me feel worse than a slob out on the floor.
    The lack of respect with which management and male staff at stripclubs treat the dancers goes a long way towards perpetuating the problems of dancers being treated badly by customers as well. Unfortunately, the attitude is so common amongst male staff that it is eventually perceived as normal, acceptable, and even friendly behavior.

    This lead to the ridiculous notion that a DJ who literally humped the leg of a dancer friend of mine was "just kidding around", since he "did it to all the girls". I knew damned well the guy was being a prick.
    Last edited by Djoser; 12-20-2004 at 02:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2
    Djoser, is it your perception that "a few of them" actually allow sexual assault?
    Definitely. Over the years I've had more than a few physically force themselves on me - forcefully pulling on my thong and trying to shove fingers into my vagina in a quick attack kind of way, so that the only way I could stop it was to back away and yell. They would wait until I was in a position (such as straddling during a lapdance) which would make it difficult for me to get away quickly, and even as I was getting up, telling them "STOP IT" and physically trying to push their hands away, they continued until I hit them in the face, managed to get back far enough, made enough noise. I have even had some physically hold me down with one hand so I had to hit them and scream. There is no doubt that these same guys do the same thing and get away with it, with other girls who are less willing to put up a fight. As Bikinigirl said, most of the young inexperienced girls don't realize they don't HAVE to put up with it and are afraid they won't make money and/or won't be accepted if they don't put up with it.

    These guys do other things like: In a strictly one-way contact club where guys are expected to keep their hands on the chairarms, sit with their hands just barely on the chairarms, to the inside, and stick their thumbs out so they can graze the sides of a dancer as she's doing a lapdance. If the dancer puts her arms inside the guy's arms to push his hands back, the guy will physically resist because he intends to keep touching her whether she likes it or not. Some girls give up and let them do it (even though they don't want it) because, again, they're afraid they won't make money - so they put their backs to the guy and make nasty faces and roll their eyes.

    As DJoser pointed out, this crap would be considered assault and would NOT be accepted anywhere but in a stripclub. But because we're strippers we're supposed to deal with it

    In my experience, an extras girl works one of three ways:

    1. She's verbally and tactily aggressive, stick shifting right from the opening sales pitch. She'll offer something fairly high on the Extras List. By the end of the first encounter you know she's available OTC.

    2. She's coy, pressing against you and making verbal suggestions in the sales pitch. During the dance, she makes herself very easy to touch, then says "bad boy" with an impish smile as she brushes hands away after the fact. Later she explains that she has to cover her butt in case a bouncer is watching.

    3. She's a nice girl on the first encounter, then says she really likes you and heads into extraland, repeatedly saying, "I don't do this with anyone else." She may also complain about other customers wanting to do whatever, because that seems to add to her credibility.
    1. This is clearly a girl who's willing to go the extra mile. Raincoaters should strictly seek her out.

    2. I have to question this one. A whole lot of us will act coy and press against or close to a guy during the pitch, and the sheer nature of a lapdance makes us all easy to touch That doesn't mean we want it. Brushing hands away and saying "bad boy" is often used as a way of saying "STOP IT" a little more subtly. Mentioning the bouncer serves the same purpose. I use a very similar approach with most guys who try things on me (the less aggressive ones), and most get the hint - those who don't get no more dance from me.

    3. The phrase "likes you" is more accurately: "trusts you're not a cop". Her saying she doesn't do this with anyone else could be her way of indirectly asking for a tip, since no one else supposedly gets the same treatment for the standard dance price.

    I'd be interested to know if dancers see other dancers upset because they succumbed to pressure and allowed someone to sexually assault them. I suspect that may well be the case, but I have never seen or heard of anything but active dancer participation.
    Yes. Seen girls crying or visibly upset later, either in the VIP when her "customer" went to the bathroom or trying to hide in the dressing room or bathroom. Occasionally one will admit she "was stupid" or that she "gets stupid" when she gets drunk. This is not something I've seen often, but enough to know plenty of girls who put up with asshole raincoaters aren't happy about it. I should add that in all but one of these cases, I wasn't around for the action, so she wasn't putting on a show for my benefit

    I rarely see an extras girl ask for extra money.
    This is because most of them are poor saleswomen and feel they have to do it to make money.

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2
    I'd be interested to know if dancers see other dancers upset because they succumbed to pressure and allowed someone to sexually assault them. I suspect that may well be the case, but I have never seen or heard of anything but active dancer participation.
    All the time, all the time. One of the drawbacks of working in Texas. As I've said in my previous post....a lot of these girls have been taken advantage of, and unloved their whole lives, even by their own families, so they are easy to take advantage of. Sad thing is, once it happens a few times, they usually just end up getting "numb" to it, like some sort of molestation victim.
    That's why some of us think it's disgusting when customers act this way to dancers. Not only do we see it as a disrespect to us, but we have seen the effects it's had on the ones who let it happen to them.
    There might be an extras girl here or there, that's kinda just an escort in training, and really likes that part of the job, but I don't think they're the majority.

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    LOL - you would be one of the RAREST of rare men who don't like a woman, stripper or otherwise, fondling his genitals upon first approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    LOL - you would be one of the RAREST of rare men who don't like a woman, stripper or otherwise, fondling his genitals upon first approach.
    Well if another of those rarest of rare men may speak...

    Acutually this isn't as uncommon as you may think. We in fact seem to have several guys here on this board who would prefer a dancer start things out a little more subtly than that. We want you gals to be aggressive, but doggone it, a little classiness in being so, never hurt anyone.

    If a dancer's first move is to feel me up, that implies to me that she has no confidence in using her other wiles to make me buy a dance from her.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Well I promise, I never feel a guy up on the first "hello", well....except sometimes I do like to smack their ass as we walk by, but that's just cuz I like smackin ass
    But you might be surprised how many guys will instantly say yes to a girl who does the weenie fondle routine.

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    I have to agree with Jay and Doc - I have never assaulted a girl in a strip club (or anywhere else for that matter) but I have been assaulated many times by dancers and don't like it at all. In fact I never sit stageside anymore for exactly that reason, I hate having girls grab me and try to do things to me that I don't like. There are clubs that I specifically avoid because of the aggressive girls. When I go into a VIP room the first thing I always do is ask a girl her rules - I don't care what the house rules are, I want to know what her rules are - and I always abide by them. And an awful lot of girls will say they don't have any, which is annoying because it's rarely true. So I guess it works both ways.
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  21. #71
    Pamela
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    I just want to chime in here. We are talking about strip clubs! You are going to meet with many many different types of dancers and customers. ALSO, not one person can be molested or taken advantage of unless YOU let it happen. Excuse rape here.

    The girls that are "taken advantage of," well they let this happen. Not because they are stupid, look around the clubs! It's because they want the money. And guys looking for higher mileage or an extra dancer, well they know what the want! Strip clubs are the MOST agressive clubs to work or hang in. It's a fact, just check them out.

    Things don't just happe to dancers, and a customer keeps coming back for more, i.e. taking advantage of, she is letting it happen. Customers don't take advantage, unless a dancer lets it happen. (typo) We dancers and customers Do have control over what happens to us in strip clubs. You don't like it as a dancer? Kick his ass, call on others, etc. You are getting hit on too hard by a stripper...Well this comes with strip clubs. Can't blame a dancer for trying. Can't blame a customer for trying. Just be. Avoid the extras shit if you don't like it. BUT, look around you are in a strip club. Don't like a chick touching on you, stay out of the clubs. It's going to happen, it's a friendly way of saying hi, and some of us are conditioned to be very friendly.

    PS wrote this fast, off to work. This post was just my feelings, not meant for any one person.

    Pamela

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2

    That explains a lot. And what we see as aggressive behaviors by dancers may be the kind of learned sexual behavior "survival skills" that follow longterm molestation.
    Keep in mind that this type of agressive behavior and the "survival skills" you've noticed (that's made these girls "numb" and overly sexually aggressive) has often taken place in the strip clubs. Often girls who have never been molested as children, tend to take on these characteristics only after they've worked in strip clubs and been manipulated into thinking that they must make the customers "happy" to make money, and have been comprised into a position (which they would have never experienced had they never worked in the strip club) of being overly sexually agressive and permissive . Hmmmmmmmmm

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Pamela
    ALSO, not one person can be molested or taken advantage of unless YOU let it happen. Excuse rape here.

    The girls that are "taken advantage of," well they let this happen. Not because they are stupid, look around the clubs! It's because they want the money. And guys looking for higher mileage or an extra dancer, well they know what the want! Strip clubs are the MOST agressive clubs to work or hang in. It's a fact, just check them out.
    PS wrote this fast, off to work. This post was just my feelings, not meant for any one person.

    Pamela
    I think this may be over-simplifying the situation a bit and not taking into account the background info that leads to such behavior. Low self esteem, feelings of being unwanted, unloved, being uneducated, etc. And the point is that it's wrong for one human being to take advantage of another's weaknesses.
    I used to have a hard time seeing all this as well Pamela, I'm a very independent, strong willed, woman...who's not easily manipulated and has a healthy amount of self esteem. I couldn't understand it why so many others didn't just suck it up and get over it, and how could all these girls be such "whores for little money"?. But when you really start to get to know these types of girls, and pay attention to what's really going on, the whole story comes into play.

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    Well if another of those rarest of rare men may speak...

    Acutually this isn't as uncommon as you may think. We in fact seem to have several guys here on this board who would prefer a dancer start things out a little more subtly than that. We want you gals to be aggressive, but doggone it, a little classiness in being so, never hurt anyone.

    If a dancer's first move is to feel me up, that implies to me that she has no confidence in using her other wiles to make me buy a dance from her.
    For Jay, Doc, and FONDL:

    How much do you want to bet that these unsavory aggressive girls were not up to the physical standards you require for purchasing laps in a club? What if your ideal goddess came up and did the same?

    Just a hunch
    Last edited by Katrine; 12-20-2004 at 07:05 PM. Reason: changed be to bet so the statement makes more sense

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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittany
    I think this may be over-simplifying the situation a bit and not taking into account the background info that leads to such behavior. Low self esteem, feelings of being unwanted, unloved, being uneducated, etc. And the point is that it's wrong for one human being to take advantage of another's weaknesses.
    I used to have a hard time seeing all this as well Pamela, I'm a very independent, strong willed, woman...who's not easily manipulated and has a healthy amount of self esteem. I couldn't understand it why so many others didn't just suck it up and get over it, and how could all these girls be such "whores for little money"?. But when you really start to get to know these types of girls, and pay attention to what's really going on, the whole story comes into play.
    True. You don't even really have to get know the girls much, just listen to them talking in the dressing room and see alot of their behaviours at work. I don't pay much attention to the other girls but when you're around them day in and day out you see and hear alot just by default.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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