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Thread: Extras girls

  1. #126
    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Well, I've listened to all the counterpoints and I'm hereby repentant. I've been passing moral judgments from my temple on high. Advocating big Scarlet letters for the extras girls. And not only that, but I'm not being pragmatic enough in how I view my work! Just a silly girl wasting her time daydreaming because it's not going to change from my talking about it, so I should adapt. Thought I had to a certain extent but I guess I really need to get down on all fours and suck like a heavy duty ShopVac. I'm now sure I can't adapt and bitch at the same time, btw. It's one or the other, sorta like walking and chewing gum. For a stripper, the two don't mix.

    I also realize the only value in complaining in this forum is "therapeutic." As a girl, I need that outlet for my fragile emotions, being on the rag once a month and all. I've perished the thought that we might actually cause some dancers to think about the issue and approach work with a little more drive and self-confidence to be a success without extras because it might make sense to them from a ...oh, let's say... "pragmatic way over the long term." Nope, impacting change by discussion, what an urban myth! Truth is, I've got to withdraw from the dis-da-bitch fest this thread is perpetuating.

    (Sorry, but my sarcastic self takes over sometimes. )

    -Ev
    Last edited by evan_essence; 12-23-2004 at 05:39 AM. Reason: Oops. Wasn't really addressed to who I originally had quoted.

  2. #127
    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    The issue of personal integrity and business standards exists in all industries. The sales people on a car lot....in an appliance store...in a strip club.... athletes who take steroids.... and the ongoing issue that if you do not conform, then you either cannot compete....or you just need to accept that you will never reach the same level as the others do.

    ....so you're not alone.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
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  3. #128
    Moderator Djoser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence
    Well, I've listened to all the counterpoints and I'm hereby repentant. I've been passing moral judgments from my temple on high. Advocating big Scarlet letters for the extras girls. And not only that, but I'm not being pragmatic enough in how I view my work! Just a silly girl wasting her time daydreaming because it's not going to change from my talking about it, so I should adapt. Thought I had to a certain extent but I guess I really need to get down on all fours and suck like a heavy duty ShopVac.
    Yeah, you're right, Ev...

    And I need to shut up here, and start saying on the mike that "You know, guys, VIP stands for Very Intense Puuuuuusssssssssiiiee!!!!!!", like the guy at the jack shack I know does.

    Why have I been wasting my time being sympathetic with dancers who whine and bitch about guys shoving their grubby hands into their panties? Hey, if they didn't secretly love it, why would they dance for those guys, right? And they ought to realize that going into VIP means that every guy has the right to penetrate every orifice as much as he wants, otherwise the dancer is guilty of lying and misleading the poor customer to steal his money.

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence
    I also realize the only value in complaining in this forum is "therapeutic." As a girl, I need that outlet for my fragile emotions, being on the rag once a month and all. I've perished the thought that we might actually cause some dancers to think about the issue and approach work with a little more drive and self-confidence to be a success without extras because it might make sense to them from a ...oh, let's say... "pragmatic way over the long term."
    Sorry, but you are wrong there, Ev...this forum exists so that guys who know far more about the real world and the business of dancing than any dancer or DJ could ever manage, can straighten us out about our misconceptions and delusions.

    We aren't intelligent or circumspect enough to realize that our logic is flawed by what we are expecting out of the stripclub experience...
    Last edited by Djoser; 12-23-2004 at 09:49 AM.
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  4. #129
    Veteran Member stant's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser

    And I need to shut up here, and start saying on the mike that "You know, guys, VIP stands for ...
    I've thought a bit about what "extras" means for various jobs:

    Cop: Taking bribes. Overlooking a ticket for cash.

    Teacher: Bribes for grades: Increasing a grade for money.

    Judge: bribes for anything

    DJ at a radio station: playing a song on the air for cash

    Doctor: writing a script without medical need

  5. #130
    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    LOL.... DJoser, I love your posts!!!!
    And you are so right about men that don't dance and have never danced, but oh, they've dated a dancer and know a lot of dancers so they ALL about dancing..... They can even give advice and they know how it works, we're only there to pick their pockets and steal their wallets, and lap dances? Forget 'em, their just a ploy to trick them into spending hard earned money on a half-assed dance.
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



  6. #131
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    This one's for you, Ev. Don't give up.

    Providence clubs are nude and high contact with alcohol and lots of extras. Fifteen minutes north of Providence, in Woonsocket, there's a topless club called K2U Southside. It's a nice neighborhood bar with good drink prices. Downstairs they have the most comfortable lapdance area I've ever seen.

    The manager treats the dancers like human beings. The DJ precedes every dancer name with "Lady." The bartenders know all the regulars and what they like. The club attracts quality dancers who want no part of Providence. One girl with no pictures on the website is the most beautiful dancer in Rhode Island.

    The owner is floating a trial balloon about going nude. The dancers don't want it. The regulars don't want it. They're posting on the SCL K2U site that they love the club just the way it is now. No significant extras, almost no drugs, and an awesome Cheers factor. It's my favorite club and what I think a strip club should be.

    Happy holidays.

  7. #132
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL
    I must say, I wasn't able to wade through all of Wade's posts. But one thing jumped out at me that I have to agree with, and that is that "extras" aren't anything new. I've been going to clubs for 40 years and if anything I think most clubs are cleaner today than they used to be because they have managed to attract so many higher class ladies. Which is why so many of you have this idea that "extras" are new, because to you they are. It wasn't that long ago that every older city had an XXX area of clubs that were basically brothels. But Boston closed it's Combat Zone. NYC leaned up Times Square. About the only one left that I know of is Baltimore's Block. The industry in many areas has become highly sanitized. Which might account for the slower business environment we hear about.
    True enough FONDL.

    I wonder what some would make of the factual knowledge that lap dancing in the NYC area was born out of the "Mardi Gras" nights that use to take place at the old 'Melody Burlesque' back in the 70's. Later to become famous 'Harmony' of Church St and later of 22nd St.

    Lap dances were done all over the place, even before they were called "lap dances". And extras were availabe, both on campus and off, by some of the women who worked there.

    Its just always been the way it was.

    Again, I am NOT advocating extras. I am simply saying they are a fact of life and as such need to be dealt with.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  8. #133
    Featured Member FONDL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    I don't advocate extras either and I fully understand why the "nice" girls are turned off by them. My only purpose in posting this thread was to point out that extras have always existed, they aren't anything new, and that sluts have always been around. And I disagree with Bridgette, it's not extras in nice places that is new, it's the nice places themselves that are. It used to be that all almost clubs were dives and almost all dancers were sluts. The growth of the nice clubs and influx of nice dancers is what is new (and I applaud the change.) But it's obvious that a lot of the customers haven't recognized the change and are still playing by the old rules. I'm not trying to make excuses for them, I'm only trying to point out what is. But I guess I should stop trying - since I've never danced and have only gone to clubs for 40 years all over the country and have several friends who are ex-dancers, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about and nobody want to hear my opinion. I thought the whole purpose of "Customer Conversation" on this site was so you ladies and other SC employees could hear our opinions. Guess I misunderstood.
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  9. #134
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    I just started a new thread entitled "Strip Clubs as Special Ethical Arenas" in this forum. I originally intended to make the initial post of that thread in this one because it is quite relevant to the discussion here, imo. However, I ended up deciding to put it in its own thread because 1) I think it is substantially more general than just the "extras" context, and 2) I have the impression that this thread is drifting in the direction of a too large flaming-to-listening ratio.

    Anyway, if you are following this thread, you might want to have a look at the "Strip Clubs as Special Ethical Arenas" one, too.

    -Ww
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  10. #135
    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Hmmmmmm.....I think maybe this thread is running out of steam. The next step after re-stating your opinion six times and still not changing anyone’s mind is usually to act insulted, take your ball, and go home.
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  11. #136
    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL
    I disagree with Bridgette, it's not extras in nice places that is new, it's the nice places themselves that are.
    Depends on your definition of new. I was talking about new to US, who started in the nice places when nice places were relatively new, and in-club extras in those places were way less prevalent, or even unheard of. Nice places may be new compared to 40 years ago, but considering they've held a sizable chunk of the market for 10+ years, I wouldn't consider that new anymore either. Given the history of the nice places, rampant in-club extras in them definitely is new.

    Also keep in mind nice places in other areas have been around longer than they have in our area. They're still a little bit of a novelty here

    >> Added:
    Oh yeah, Fondl, I could be wrong but I don't think you're the one people are referring to re: the know-it-all attitude. I felt this whole discussion was quite civil until a certain other poster with a bad case of the know-it-alls inundated us with spew

    On that note, OMG, once again I love the ignore feature! I've gone back through the last couple pages and this thread reads so much better
    Last edited by Bridgette; 12-23-2004 at 02:07 PM.

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  12. #137
    Featured Member evan_essence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Octobergirl
    http://www.cdc.gov/std/stats/tablesnatpro.htm
    The website for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, good information to have when deciding on performing or receiving extras.
    Thanks for inserting that point, which of course, most everyone knows but many fail to consider seriously enough.


    Quote Originally Posted by FONDL
    But I guess I should stop trying ... I obviously don't know what I'm talking about and nobody want to hear my opinion. I thought the whole purpose of "Customer Conversation" on this site was so you ladies and other SC employees could hear our opinions. Guess I misunderstood.
    Fondl, you're doing fine. No one's really that far off course, IMHO. Lots of good points being made and lovingly belabored. Don't sweat a little emotional response in the process. (Logic is so overrated.) I'll take my Strattera and be fine. You just go on being the gentleman that your posts show you to be.

    -Ev

  13. #138
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    This thread is hilarious...

  14. #139
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Ww, we've known each other for some time now and I say, most respectfully, that Fondl is on the right track here with his comments.

    Mod note. Rest of posting edited out because:

    1. It had nothing to do with the topic - or the section, for that matter.
    2. It was more inflammatory than helpful.

    I have saved the edited-out language in case the poster wishes to appeal to a higher authority.
    Last edited by Jay Zeno; 12-24-2004 at 08:36 AM.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  15. #140
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser
    Yeah, you're right, Ev...

    And I need to shut up here, and start saying on the mike that "You know, guys, VIP stands for Very Intense Puuuuuusssssssssiiiee!!!!!!", like the guy at the jack shack I know does.
    Oh Puullllesse!

    People say things in concise language and you just take it and go where ever you want with it.

    Even though I, Fondl, and others have repeated over and over again that no one is advocating extras being sold in strip-clubs and no one is advocating customers going to strip-clubs to seek same, you make it sound like that is exactly what is being advocated.

    All that is being said is that market forces are in play and if you truly want to make your money, your way, you have to figure out ways to work around them.

    Its economics 101. Its nothing new. It shouldn't be seen as negative, or recriminating, of having moderators deleting our posts, and its not anything that should get Fondl, myself, or anyone else dumped on. [geeze]
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  16. #141
    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette
    ... but considering they've held a sizable chunk of the market for 10+ years, I wouldn't consider that new anymore either. Given the history of the nice places, rampant in-club extras in them definitely is new.
    Bridgette, you just took what Fondl said and trivilized it, then discounted it.

    What he said was very plain, and very accurate.

    The majority of S-C's, at the conception of the notion of what a S-C was, things that you refer to as extras took place. The same holds true for now.

    So you are incorrect when you say "a sizeable chunk of the market for 10+ years" is extra free. That simply isn't the case.

    What is true is that in your corner of the stripping world, which represents only a fraction of what goes on in the industry, extras have existed but have only recently come out of the closet, so to speak, pushing itself into everyone's face in the process. Making of itself a nuisance at the least, and possible finacial burden at the most, to dancers who are use to playing it straight.

    Look, none of us know each other so how do you know Fondl is simply a "custy" with no background that lends itself to an understanding of how strip-clubs work? Or I for that matter. You don't have to be a dancer to understand strip-clubs. And its strip-clubs and what goes on in them we are talking about, not dancing.

    Now please don't get huffy. I am not shooting you down. I am speaking to you the way I would any adult I respected who made a comment in a dialog I am involved in that came into conflict with my personal knowledge of the material being discussed. In other words, giving you the respect of speaking plainly to you, as an equal. If you want me to "be nice" and treat you like a "grrl" then say so. I figure you deserve better.
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  17. #142
    Moderator yoda57us's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Sorry but I don't see dissagreeing as trivializing. Obviously we all think we are right here but we are dealing with opinions and nothing more. There are no statistics on when the first extra was performed, when the first upscale GC opened, the ratio of good girls to bad girls or anything else to do with strip clubs for that matter.

    The failure of another poster to see things your way does not mean they are hiding from reality, it just means they don't agree with you.
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  18. #143
    Featured Member FONDL's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Yoda, once again I agree with you (damn, I have to stop saying that all the time.) For the record, I always hope that people will disagree with things that I say, that's the only way I can learn anything, and it's why I post in the first place. And yes I do change my mind when people present a persuasive argument. I can't think of anything more boring than a discussion where averybody agrees with everyone else. But I do get annoyed when someone who thinks they know it all attacks others personally - it dramatically weakens their argument among other things. It also gets them placed on my "do not read" list.
    Friends Of Naked Dancing Ladies (FONDL)

  19. #144
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by evan_essence
    Well, I've listened to all the counterpoints and I'm hereby repentant. I've been passing moral judgments from my temple on high. Advocating big Scarlet letters for the extras girls. And not only that, but I'm not being pragmatic enough in how I view my work! Just a silly girl wasting her time daydreaming because it's not going to change from my talking about it, so I should adapt.
    -Ev
    Well, good. Next time you go to work, we all expect hear about blowjobs galore!
    I tried to reply in detail to another post, but after two attempts my wrists got tired from all the typing. So I just have to settle for a smiley.
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    Senior Member Thorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn
    Ww, we've known each other for some time now and I say, most respectfully, that Fondl is on the right track here with his comments.

    Mod note. Rest of posting edited out because:

    1. It had nothing to do with the topic - or the section, for that matter.
    2. It was more inflammatory than helpful.

    I have saved the edited-out language in case the poster wishes to appeal to a higher authority.
    Thanks for the option of appeal. That is truly appreciated. But while I could go to Pryce and bellyache, in the final analysis there is nothing that you deleted that is important enough to me to make that kind of statement. I think you moderated in a fair manner and don't believe you to have anything but beneficial intent. [Not suggesting that my opinion there though should be important to anyone, yourself included] Unlike [self-editing additional commentary regarding other stuff, in other places, at other times]
    Those that don't take shouldn't be taken.

    To those special folk who realize all we are doing is throwing ideas about and who know the difference between opinion and Id, I appreciate reading your thoughts [and respect them whether I agreed with you or not].

    To less open minded folk who feel the need to silence those in opposition to their view of the world I suggest to you that you just might be your own worst enemies.

    Karma to the people!

  21. #146
    Featured Member bambiblue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by NinaDaisy
    I've always done well with being a medium and primarily one-way contact dancer. Yes, I'll let a customer touch my boobs in a Champagne room (for $500+ an hour), but I get very obviously uncomfortable and other attempts at contact from a customer. I have a tendency to flinch if someone at PEC tries to rub my legs during a dance.

    It'll often cost me another dance or more from the guy, but in 5+ years of dancing, I've learned that most of these guys fall into 2 categories:

    1) They want to get as much for as little money as possible.

    2) They're willing to spend money only for sexual favors.

    Neither are people that I want to deal with in my customer base.

    FONDL, if you think that us lower-contact dancers are thrilled to have men that seek extras at our clubs because they might throw us a dollar or two on stage, you are sorely deluded.
    I've lost business to extras dancers before and I don't get too aggravated by it because I am a good enough businesswoman to make money most nights without resorting to that.

    I seriously do not understand the mentality of these girls and why they just don't go to work at a massage parlor or escort. These girls are fucking and sucking and bringing home just $500 a night? Have some goddamn standards!
    WELL SAID!!!! I think NINA DAISY speaks for many of us who are trying to earn a clean living and not have to resort to degrading ourselves or becoming prostitutes. I also make good money and do not allow people to touch me in any way during their dances but yes, I too have lost money to girls who go farther than they are sopposed to. It makes me sick because they usually NEVER get any more than they normally would if they would have done a "standard" dance. I have eliminated many people from my clientele only to watch those guys go to the select few girls who break the rules,. Then they wonder why noone can stand them. If a girl wants to do sexual favors than she should go work at an escort service and leave it out of the club.

  22. #147
    Veteran Member slutty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    I understand where men are coming from, we are taking our clothes off and dancing all over them, i can see where they think they can touch, but yelling at them and making them feel bad only makes it worse for you! come up with something clever to say to where it doesn't hurt there feelings, remember they are the ones paying our bills.
    the slutty one

  23. #148
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Alot of times though Extras bring the cops who wil arrest clean girls for breaking minor laws like accidently getting to close or what not.
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  24. #149
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn
    Ww, we've known each other for some time now and I say, most respectfully, that Fondl is on the right track here with his comments.

    Mod note. Rest of posting edited out because:

    1. It had nothing to do with the topic - or the section, for that matter.
    2. It was more inflammatory than helpful.

    I have saved the edited-out language in case the poster wishes to appeal to a higher authority.
    Hi Thorn,

    Indeed we have, and although I do not always agree with you (but sometimes do), I often find that you have interesting perspectives and things to say. And while it sometimes takes a while to read your posts, I always do. If the moderator deleted material was addressed to me or some point I have made, I regret not getting to see it. (JZ, I am not questioning your decision...and indeed I have no basis for doing so without knowing what was deleted. It may well have been the right thing to do, but anyway, I'm still curious about what Thorn had to say.) Anyway, Thorn, you can PM here and you know where/how to reach me "elsewhere", so feel free to take it backchannel if you are so inclined.

    -Ww
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    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
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  25. #150
    God/dess FBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: Extras girls

    JZ and I feel that pretty much all the pertinent thoughts on this topic have been expressed so we are locking it.

    Thanks to all who have posted their opinions.

    FBR
    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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