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Thread: What's in your wallet?

  1. #26
    Featured Member lopaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    I did read both comments, and it's clear that both you & tampadancer agree that dancing for a girl doesn't make a dancer gay....but part of your original post had you speculating that one reason that a dancer might not approach a lone female customer was because the dancer might be questioning her own sexuality.
    We know that there are lots of reasons (some mentioned already) why a dancer might not approach a couple or a lone female customer...I just think that the "gay" aspect isn't one of them, that's all (as tampadancer noted).

    No harm, no foul.

  2. #27
    Featured Member lopaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    I'll take that bet, coz it's a longshot.

    With many dancers proclaiming to be either bisexual or bi-curious, I think that if you were to find a dancer that was questioning her sexuality enough to hesitate to dance for a woman, she would literally be one in a thousand. So, technically...yes...I'm sure that there ARE girls like that, but their numbers would be so small as not to be worth including in a survey determining why dancers might not approach women customers.

    I also think that the nature of the business itself lends itself to people who are pretty open-minded over-all, especially in the sexuality area. I just don't see many ladies denying female customers dances because of their own inner questionings. Perhaps an actual survey of the dancers might be in order.

    And as far as those sexual behaviour studies go....since I don't fall into the stereotypical characterizations of female sexual behaviour, I dismiss them completely. They simply don't apply to me. How they pertain to potentially sexually-confused-dancers I have no idea!

  3. #28
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Going in a club and not being approached is looked upon the same by a customer as going in a better department store or boutique and not being asked if he wants any help.

    It doesn't feel good going in a store with money to spend on a desired item and having questions about that item and no one will wait on you, does it?

    Why should a guy who goes to a club to relax have to wander away from his table to get a drink, or get approached for dances?

    When dancers don't approach him it makes the guy feel he is undesirable for some reason, and that his money would be better spent somewhere where he will be more appreciated and get better service.

    Sometimes I could see that a customer is warranted in having a waitress flag down that "special" girl.

    But I can truly understand a guy leaving with money in pocket and holding it back to be spent in a club where he gets more attention.

    Definately more dancers need to be taught to treat customers as they want to be treated when they are customers.

  4. #29
    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Tina is absolutely 100% right. Ask yourself how many times have you gone into a restaraunt, been seated, and never been helped, only to have to get up and go find your food server or ask where they are? We all have. Would you not agree that the tip you left for that person was diminished because of this? Would you also agree that in that moment your perception and opinion of the restaraunt became a negative one? So why are the clubs any different?

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  5. #30
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth
    So why are the clubs any different?
    Dancers are not employees.
    The only requirements to being hired in a club are physical requirements and a willingness to disrobe. Thus, no sales training. Some girls work for it, the other girls sit on their asses and wait for prince charming. Most waitpersons in restaurants get some minimum training, usually by working with an experienced employee.

    The clubs do not run any metrics on prime customer time compared to dead times. Thus, the club will be running 100 girls on a slow Wednesday night, and only 50 girls with double the customers on a Friday night. As much as I would hate it, setting schedules can be advantageous to all.

    I totally think that there should be a required training class for ALL dancers on how to sell upon hiring, something similar to your operation DancerWealth. But the costs would slightly lower management's immediate bottom line, and OH NO, we could never decrease immediate profit so that we could make any money in the future? With the rate of dancer turnaround, why would they bother to invest in training?

    Separately, many of these unhappy customers come into the club and make it difficult upon themselves.
    -They get a seat in a dark hidden corner in the back where they cannot be seen.

    -They are shy, so they have their face in their beer or on the floor the entire time, indicating to passing dancers that they don't want to be disturbed.

    -They have specific physical requirements for a dancer, and those type of dancers are not approaching or not working, while the more homely dancers might be.

    What is wrong with having to ask the waitress to bring a girl over when you have 0 social skills and/or want a specific look on a girl? Or when the evening is really busy, the hottest girls are going to be non-stop banking, just accept that!

    Tina and DW, ya'll have great info, I am not trying to slam anyone, just my perspective. The nature of the SC operation has MUCH MUCH room for improvement.......

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  6. #31
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    I think you're right Katrine, but only to a point. Because the dancers are not employees of a club nor do they receive any formal training does not exclude common sense in customer service. I've taught sales training programs for numerous auto dealerships and the same rules apply there. Most sales people there receive no formal on the job training other than an occasional program like mine, are responsible for their own education on the product, and are still expected to take care of their customers.

    You're right about when the dancers are outnumbered by the customers Katrine, but I can't even begin to count how many times I've been in clubs where the dancers outnumber the guys 2-to-1 and yet still there are dancers sitting at the bar, chatting in the back of the room, or complaining in the dressing room and STILL guys are sitting at tables with no company virtually begging to have someone sit next to him. I remember about a year ago I did an experiment in a club once to see what the result would be. I was sitting in a club at a table where the men in the club were clearly outnumbered by the dancers. I was wearing a nice shirt, movado watch, Bruno Magli shoes (my wife calls them my "OJ shoes"), and orderd a cognac to drink. I sat at this table for 15 minutes and not one dancer walked up. Not even a "wanna dance?" girl. There were many at the bar though as well as many others sitting at tables with other dancers. So there I sat... I decided to turn up the heat a bit, so I asked a cocktail waitress if she could find someone nice to sit next to me. I saw her go up to two dancers, talk to them, point at me, and walk away. Neither of them came over. I read the lips on one of them say, "maybe later...I want to finish my drink". So then I sat a bit more. There was a dancer on stage who was doing a pretty good job, so I walked up and tipped her $20.00. She said thanks very sincerely and went on with her set. Oddly enough, when she was done, she left the stage and came up to me. That's not the odd part. The odd part was when she said, "thanks for the tip, and I promissed I'd go spend time with this other guy because he wanted a dance." Now, I was totally cool with that. The funny part is though how she went and sat with him for 15 minutes and he never once bought a dance from her. Her loss. So here I sit in the club...

    I decided to get real bold. I took three $100 bills out of my wallet and put them right on top of the table folded in half so they stood up showing their denomination. Guess what happened...within seconds, I had two "wanna dance" girls show up. It was like in Star Trek where they beamed in right in front of me. You know what I did? I turned to the cocktail waitress who was the only one in the club who was nice to the customers and actually working so I gave her one of the $100.00. The dancers learned a very valuable lesson that night.

    Funny enough, the reason I was there was because I got a call from the owner of the club who wanted me to train all his staff. He said to me that "all the girls complain there's no money in the club and I argue all the time with them that they're wrong." He was right. I did the class for their club back in August as it turns out and I actually told this story in the class.

    The bottom line is Katrine, there are some circumstances where you are absolutely right. There is only a finite amount of women working in a club and if they are substantially outnumbered by guys, they can't make everyone happy. When the tables are turned though common sense has to kick in at some point though and they need to realize that customer service, at least in a small way, is what is going to make them and the club money. When the customers are happy, everyone wins.

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  7. #32
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Dancers are not employees...The nature of the SC operation has MUCH MUCH room for improvement.......
    Maybe dancers should be employees. It sounds like almost every club in the country treats dancers as independent contractors. But just because every club does it that way doesn't make it the best way. Would a club that provided their dancers with some minimal sales training, paid their dancers a small salary along with a comission on dances make more money? Would the dancers make more money? Who knows? Has anybody tried? I've posted this before, but it's obvious to me that strip clubs are some of the worst managed businesses in the country.

    But my original point was not to bash club management. The main point was that every shift there are guys leaving the club with money in their pockets. The challenge is to either work harder or smarter and get just a little bit more of that money into my purse.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  8. #33
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    DW, you are totally, totally 100% correct, and I handle myself with the upmost courtesy and consideration for customer service. So much that I never have a problem earning, even now over the holidays. Unfortunately, dancers like myself are rarer to find in a SC than those guys who do the Queer Eye for the Straight Guy show......

    Its will take a joint effort bet dancers and management for significant change. Sadly, this industry retains much of its sleazy reputation because of the low-class behavior exhibited by many dancers.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

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    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  9. #34
    Veteran Member DeepGreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth
    There was a dancer on stage who was doing a pretty good job, so I walked up and tipped her $20.00. She said thanks very sincerely and went on with her set. Oddly enough, when she was done, she left the stage and came up to me. That's not the odd part. The odd part was when she said, "thanks for the tip, and I promissed I'd go spend time with this other guy because he wanted a dance." Now, I was totally cool with that. The funny part is though how she went and sat with him for 15 minutes and he never once bought a dance from her. Her loss. So here I sit in the club...
    IMHO, great comment DW. My wife and I have had this exact thing happen lots of times, and have been totally boggled by it. For example, we have just tipped a large amount to a dancer on stage and told her we are interested in a dance. She acknowledges us, and then tells us that she needs to go finish up with a guy she is with. This, as you indicate above, is certainly fine with us. But then we see her sit with this same guy for 30 minutes to an hour, and he never buys a dance--not even one. Meanwhile, we are sitting there with $400+ in our pockets that we were planning to spend in a VIP room... After that much time, we are likely to find another dancer who appears more interested in us, or just straight out leave the club unhappy.
    There's only us. There's only this. Forget regret, or life is yours to miss... --RENT

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  10. #35
    God/dess DancerWealth's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Its will take a joint effort bet dancers and management for significant change. Sadly, this industry retains much of its sleazy reputation because of the low-class behavior exhibited by many dancers.
    I hate to say it Katrine, but you're right. One of the fortunate things about what I do is that I am fortunate to work with dancers who are already ahead of the game to some degree. Maybe not in earnings per se, but they "get it" more than most which is why they see value in going for more. Quite frankly, it's like the bulk of people who are here on SW which is sort of a testament to itself in a way. Rarely do we see people in our courses who are the "stereotype" dancer. That doesn't mean that they don't exist, but they often define themselves in their own way also. It's the stereotypes who we rarely see in our classes, who we rarely see here on SW, and are pretty much the oposite of what people like you are all about.

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  11. #36
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    As for why some dancers hang out with the "gangsta wannabe's...." maybe they are their pimp or drug dealer. Sorry for the clean and professional ladies here, but there are plenty of dancers who end up spending their time with those who control things outside of money: like whether they have a bed to sleep on or whether they get their high on time. That it seems many of these girls are younger rather than older is a sign of their possible immaturity and inexperience.

    Let's also understand that, while the fine intelligent ladies of this forum are independent-minded, some dancers are under the sway of men or women for various non-drug, non-prostitution, non-financial reasons. Just like other normal women, dancers can fall in lust, love, or just plain need. Guys do it as well. Again, the younger ladies are probably not as likley to have been through enough healthy relationships to see that hanging on like a puppy is not good for either person.

    Some clubs also have certain folks who are never to be ignored or disrespected, depending on the neighborhood and clientele.

    Just tonight, I saw a smart young girl quit her job at a club because her gangsta boyfriend wanted to go home before her shift ended. Manipulation, 100%. And a precursor to abuse.

    Just my griping.

    As for my wallet, I am quite picky. I will welcome any girl who would like to sit down and talk. Usually, I'll buy them a drink or two. I only get dances from girls I find attractive, and will tell the sitters who won't get dances during that drink or two. If they say thanks and then leave, fine. If they stay, they know the score.

    I think it is reasonable to expect a girl to come over if you tip her above average on stage. I may not be the only one who did so, but that's ok as long as she doesn't ignore me (most girls around here make a sweep after coming off stage, thanking everyone who tipped- that's when you say when you'll be by or when the customer re-iterates that he wants to talk with her.)

    I understand that some girls think that the guy must make the first move, but that's BS in my opinion. One of the reasons men go to SCs is to feel wanted. If they have to beg for attention, they might as well be at the local Applebee's, ladies. Does this mean that you will sometimes encounter a sad or unfun customer? Yep. Guess what? He has money, too.

    No, you don't have to try to get it, but you are the ones wanting more of it, according to the posts above. That means dealing with unlikable people sometimes.

  12. #37
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    It's good to be reminded of that sometimes, this is not only a way to relax and have fun it is also a job. I often forget that I'm there for the customer not the other way .
    Bijou

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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    DW, I like experiments, so here are some comments.

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth
    I remember about a year ago I did an experiment in a club once to see what the result would be. I was sitting in a club at a table where the men in the club were clearly outnumbered by the dancers. I was wearing a nice shirt, movado watch, Bruno Magli shoes (my wife calls them my "OJ shoes"), and orderd a cognac to drink. I sat at this table for 15 minutes and not one dancer walked up. Not even a "wanna dance?" girl. There were many at the bar though as well as many others sitting at tables with other dancers.
    Relatively few dancers come from the upper middle class. I've had pretty girls in mid-level clubs tell me how much they distrust guys in upscale professional clothes: "They just wanna mindfuck you." If a $2K suit offers a dancer $2K for sex, it reinforces the stereotype. In my experience, "casual professional" works better for guys who want to connect on a personal level.

    Quote Originally Posted by DancerWealth
    There was a dancer on stage who was doing a pretty good job, so I walked up and tipped her $20.00. She said thanks very sincerely and went on with her set. Oddly enough, when she was done, she left the stage and came up to me. That's not the odd part. The odd part was when she said, "thanks for the tip, and I promissed I'd go spend time with this other guy because he wanted a dance." Now, I was totally cool with that. The funny part is though how she went and sat with him for 15 minutes and he never once bought a dance from her.
    If a dancer likes a customer and thinks he cares about her as a person, she'll give up lots of money to stay with him. Especially if someone else in her life has recently betrayed her. Sometimes mutual favorites just sit and talk, then decide not to do dances. He might just slip her some money before they part.

    I'm often surprised by the ways some dancers balance emotional and monetary needs. It doesn't fit my economic model or the kind of focus I see here on SW, but it drives a lot of decisions within clubs.

  14. #39
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Quote Originally Posted by SportsWriter2
    ...It doesn't fit my economic model or the kind of focus I see here on SW, but it drives a lot of decisions within clubs.
    It doesn't fit mine economic model either. Work is work. If I want someone to just listen to me, I'll go to my shrink.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  15. #40
    Veteran Member DeepGreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Okay, here's another "what's in your wallet" story from up in Montreal this very weekend. My wife and I went into a small club on Sunday night--it was nearly empty (two other customers and only a handfull of dancers.) But we've had fun there in the past so we stick around. There is an attractive dancer (brunette) on stage who finishes her set. I make eye contact and smile as she walks off the stage. She then approaches one of the two other customers in the club. She chats with him for a while--he clearly is not buying any dances. So, she goes over to a couch by the stage and proceeds to sit by herself and check messages on her cell phone. Doesn't approach us. The next song she goes up on stage again. It's Montreal--so stage tipping is not usual--but nonetheless I approached her after her dance was over and tipped her nicely just because we felt bad that the club was so empty. By the time I got over to tip her, she was talking with the DJ, so I didn't want to interrupt. I went back to the table with my wife after handing the brunette dancer the tip. She still doesn't approach us, and goes back to sit by herself.

    Now, this was actually okay with me, because I was more interested in a blonde dancer who was already dancing for another customer upstairs. This is why I did not go up to the first dancer (brunette) and ask her myself if she would like to dance for us. However, if the brunette had approached us, I would have purchased a few dances from her anyway--just for the effort and because the club was so empty.

    Even later on, when we were the only customers left in the club, the brunette never came up to us to chat. She sat by herself absorbed by her cell phone, rather than approaching the only customers on the floor of the club (us). Since she was not our first choice for a dance--we did not approach her ourselves--but we did tip her and make lots of cheerful eye contact. So why not chat with us and see if we want a dance? What is there to lose?

    My wife and I were amazed that she would not approach a couple--even given that we were clearly friendly, went out of our way to tip her on the stage, and for quite a while were the only customers left in the club. This just seems like a rather extreme example of exactly the type of thing that was discussed above in this thread.
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  16. #41
    Featured Member lopaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    DeepGreen,

    Does your wife ever do any of the tipping, or is it always you?
    If she hasn't ever approached a dancer herself, maybe that would be something to try. Perhaps the dancer thinks that your wife is there only to please you (even tho you both seem friendly).
    If your wife has approached them & still no response.....then I just don't know.

    Maybe some of the dancers that won't approach you two have had bad female customer experiences in the past (aka "girlfriend/SO from hell").
    Maybe they think that they won't make enuff $$$$ to feel it is worth their time.
    Either way....they are missing out on opportunities. Their loss.

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    Veteran Member DeepGreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: What's in your wallet?

    Quote Originally Posted by lopaw
    DeepGreen,

    Does your wife ever do any of the tipping, or is it always you?
    If she hasn't ever approached a dancer herself, maybe that would be something to try. Perhaps the dancer thinks that your wife is there only to please you (even tho you both seem friendly).
    If your wife has approached them & still no response.....then I just don't know.

    Maybe some of the dancers that won't approach you two have had bad female customer experiences in the past (aka "girlfriend/SO from hell").
    Maybe they think that they won't make enuff $$$$ to feel it is worth their time.
    Either way....they are missing out on opportunities. Their loss.
    Yeah, we are usually confused by this. But then there are other dancers who seem to really enjoy dancing for couples. Typically, my wife tips right along with me at the stage, and interacts very freely with the dancers. However, it seems like there are some dancers who, for whatever reason, just don't approach couples. Probably the reasons include those you mention above...but it does seem to us that they are losing an opportunity to make money. (Particularly if the club charges double for dancing for two people...) Ah well...we always find someone attractive to dance for us. But, we often leave the club with money in our pockets as well--money that could easily be extracted by dancers.
    There's only us. There's only this. Forget regret, or life is yours to miss... --RENT

    Do not taunt happy fun ball.

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