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Thread: Keeping a sugardaddy

  1. #76
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rath
    Wwanderer's dread SEA thesis
    Shouldn't it be "dreaded"?

    But nevertheless, somehow that phrase made my day! (or SFSF if you prefer)

    -Ww
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  2. #77
    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Wwanderer
    So, once more and fwiiw, I think that it is equally wrong for men to lie to women in the context of either conventional romantic or "sugar" type relationships.
    It's a matter of ethics as a whole, not ethics strictly circumscribed to the narrow definition that fits one's point. A man who quizzes his date on their first outing as to when he will receive sex is behaving unethically. You, however, are ignoring this hypothetical man's transgression in favor of placing the ethical onus on his date to be honest. This demonstrates, at the very least, a lack of understanding the application of ethics, upon which you are basing your arguments.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #78
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rath
    In that thread, a stripper (who might well have been a troll trying to stir up some trouble) claimed she had defrauded a customer out of more than $30,000 by means of false promises of out-of-club sex, and reported that the customer's wife was now suing her to get the money back. And you know what? A majority of the posters in the thread sided with the stripper. My mind still boggles at that.
    Well, I don't know of the post, and like I said, a case by case basis - I have no idea if I would feel she was defrauded or not. On the blue site a while ago a customer proudly wrote of how he refused a tip to a dancer after she had provided (ahem) excellent service. I, as a dancer, would feel defrauded if I had implicitly trusted in the generosity of my customer in extending boundaries and then got a straight up "no" back at me - but he, and most customers seemed to think that she was unreasonable in asking for a tip (remember how I said that customers are trying to get the most out of us without paying? And therefore we don't really owe them anything?)

    I can tell one thing I could see happening off hand - customers on the site attacked the stripper in generalized terms and other women here felt bound to defend her. Or one poster simply ascribed a position to strippers (for example, beginning "That's the problem with strippers...") thus giving them a position to defend that wasn't even theirs in the first place. Or just sheer tribe mentality, in which we don't necessarily like to see other people attacking one of our own.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  4. #79
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilith
    It's a matter of ethics as a whole, not ethics strictly circumscribed to the narrow definition that fits one's point. A man who quizzes his date on their first outing as to when he will receive sex is behaving unethically. You, however, are ignoring this hypothetical man's transgression in favor of placing the ethical onus on his date to be honest. This demonstrates, at the very least, a lack of understanding the application of ethics, upon which you are basing your arguments.
    OK, thanks for the explanation. I now understand your point where I did not before.

    Re the bit I have put in bold, in the context of a romantic (or potential romantic) relationship, I would consider such questioning by the man very unconventional and, unless done in some uncommonly subtle and gracious/charming way, quite rude or boorish. As Lurker suggests, she might well be justified in answering by calling him a jerk or whatever and refusing not only to have sex with him but also to ever see him again. However, I am not sure I would call it unethical exactly; being an asshole or insulting or just socially totally clueless is not unethical imo. But maybe we just have different opinions in this regard.

    Perhaps more to the point, in the context of a "sugar" type relationship, which is basically a "free market" commercial transaction as you have noted, I am not so sure it is such bad behavior on the client's part to ask such questions, especially if that is what he is trying or hoping to get out of the relationship. In this context, quite different from that of a romantic one, how is it wrong for someone who wants to buy X from you to ask you if you are selling X? And, in many respects, I'd think (but what do I know about it?) that a potential "sugar baby" would rather be asked such a question up front and directly to the probably more common (and dishonest, thus wrong) "sugar daddy" tactic of saying that he is not interested in sex when in fact that is precisely what he is after. Wouldn't you consider that worse than asking directly?

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

  5. #80
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    I CANNOT believe you are comparing mass genocide of millions of innocent people to stupid mind games played between the genders Rath. Not just grossly innapropriate, but magnimoniously offensive.

    Arrrrrrggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! !!!!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  6. #81
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Djoser
    Since this is a dancer site, and I have worked with them and seen the shit they have to put up with, I tend to be more sympathetic here. If I were on a site for customers, I would find it irritating if the dancers who visited the site were to shrilly counter every single post by a customer complaining about common problems in stripclubs with an outraged diatribe, the way some customers do here, over and over again.
    It is ironic that I first suggested the SEA "model" of SCs in a net stripper forum populated mostly by customers and where a few dancers, mostly just one at any given time, were trying to defend their "tactics" or ethics in hustling customers in clubs. It is amusing that the whole SEA notion was heavily criticized there for being too easy on dancers! In any case, let me again say that what goes on in a SC is subject to extremely different standards of behavior than what might go on outside the club in a "sugar" relationship. Obviously not everyone agrees, but to me it would be like me swindling a friend out of some money with some psychological trickery...fine at the poker table, completely wrong in our everyday dealings with each other...say in the process of splitting a bill at a restaurant.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    I CANNOT believe you are comparing mass genocide of millions of innocent people to stupid mind games played between the genders Rath. Not just grossly innapropriate, but magnimoniously offensive.

    Arrrrrrggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! !!!!
    Sorry if you think I understated the importance of mind games between the genders. Next time I'll compare them to mass nuclear annihilation.

    For the record, though, I don't see this issue as having ANYTHING to do with gender issues. I think it has to do with commercial honesty. I think all that gender shit is a complete red herring.

  8. #83
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Ok, fine, it can occur between two men or two women, but I see this as an issue of communicating in a relationship, even if it is business to business.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Seriously, Kat, obviously you can't say commercial dishonesty is remotely comparable to the Holocaust. But when you're faced with the contention that your ethical obligations to someone can change on the basis of how much they skeev you out, it kinda does bring that mode of thinking to mind.

  10. #85
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    NO IT DOES NOT.

    You are brining up a very personal and emotional tragedy as analgous to occurances in the sex industry. What's the worst that happens? A guy loses his wallet and gets his heart broken? His entire family isn't lined up and shot into an open pit, then buried, whether they were dead or not.

    Comparable? This is commerce, that was war.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  11. #86
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rath
    I get it. Go into a business where you can generate sufficient contempt for the customer base and then you can justify doing whatever unscrupulous shit you want, because of the course the customers are contemptible.
    On the flip side, how many customers find strippers dirty, slutty, and money hungry? Then, come in and try to haggle prices with the dancer because they feel that paying the full $10 for a dance is "too much"?

    Or car sales? They try to take you for maximum profit and then laugh in the breakroom about some of the "easy" ones during the day?

    In all businesses there are degrees of contempt for the customer base.



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    I'm not gonna argue with you, Kat. All I'm saying is that it's offensive to say you can take someone's wallet from him cuz you don't like the kind of person he is just like it's offensive to say you can wipe out him and his family cuz you don't like the kind of person he is. Your problem, I guess, is that you just don't think there's anything very wrong with ripping people off. I guess we're all lucky you don't approve of genocide.

  13. #88
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Self-delusion is not the same as forced victimization as well. These gentleman that are trying to buy the hearts and vaginas of ladies much younger than they are have some knowledge of what is going to happen. Unless the sugar daddy is autistic and cannot comprehend social behavior, he is allowing himself to be fleeced to a certain point.

    And what percentage of sugar relationships continue for a long while without sex, with the man continuing to think he is going to get it. A couple of months? Most sugar relationships do involve sex.

    Hearing stories about a man who blew 100k on a stripper who never fucked him is like hearing about an airplane crash. It makes for exciting press due to its shock value but remains statistically insignificant.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  14. #89
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    And remember Rath,

    Not all sugar relationships are combative, and not all strippers are ripping off their customers. Sexuality is a commodity with a value, like paper money, gold, and fucking soybeans.

    Its bound to the laws or market economics as well. Its only when pissants attach emotions and "feelings" to it that it begins to skew the initial purpose of the commerce, eg men paying for sex without committment from a variety of women or other men.

    So maybe its not gender wars, but the politics of power rather? What do you think?

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    And remember Rath,

    Not all sugar relationships are combative, and not all strippers are ripping off their customers. Sexuality is a commodity with a value, like paper money, gold, and fucking soybeans.

    Its bound to the laws or market economics as well. Its only when pissants attach emotions and "feelings" to it that it begins to skew the initial purpose of the commerce, eg men paying for sex without committment from a variety of women or other men.

    So maybe its not gender wars, but the politics of power rather? What do you think?
    I think this post and the one above it are right on point. I agree with what you're saying.

  16. #91
    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    that was war.
    I would say that it is far worse than war; war is a fight, even if an unequal or unfair one, not systematic slaughter of the defenseless. Irrelevant to this discussion, I know...

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Not all sugar relationships are combative, and not all strippers are ripping off their customers.
    It is my impression that most are not, and like Rath and fwiiw, I also agree with the thrust of those two posts.

    Sexuality is a commodity with a value, like paper money, gold, and fucking soybeans.
    Eeeewwww. Sex with members of the Vegetable Kingdom, especially nonconsenting ones, is disgusting.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    How do you know the soybean isn't consenting?

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    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    What is this, exactly?

    A girl asked for advice about a sugardaddy relationship, and it descends into this monotonous, long-winded verbal onanism.

    B-O-R-I-N-G. Let's move on.

    And having met one of you (yes, the online persona you've created is that transparent)...your time is yours to waste, but perhaps you ought to reflect upon yourself, and your own motivations, rather than making silly pseudo-psychoanalyses of strangers on the internet. That goes for everyone.

  20. #95
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Small points:

    I don't think anyone is contending that it is okay to "rip someone off" because they skeev you out. I think what is going on here is that a) a lot of people here have very different ideas about what constitutes ripping someone off and b) I personally said that it is sometimes hard to sympathize with customers because they gross me out. Sometimes. As well, I said that there is some merit to the position that dancers have limited responsibilities to their customers - that maybe the "implication game" went both ways, and that customers seem to feel that it is just fine when it is working in their favour, and that maybe that absolves us, to some degree.

    And, for god's sake, if one agrees that one cannot compare the holocaust to jacking someone's wallet, why would one go on to insist on the validity of the comparison? It's like saying "I know this is invalid, but..."
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rath
    How do you know the soybean isn't consenting?
    They are always evasive when you question them.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    And, for god's sake, if one agrees that one cannot compare the holocaust to jacking someone's wallet, why would one go on to insist on the validity of the comparison? It's like saying "I know this is invalid, but..."
    Because one went to law school. You'll be there soon enough.

    (The rest of your post is hard to disagree with even for the unduly disputatious.)

    NOTE TO ADINA -- From what I read elsewhere on this site, onanism is what this industry is all about.

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    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    Quote Originally Posted by Adina
    A girl asked for advice about a sugardaddy relationship, and it descends into this monotonous, long-winded verbal onanism.
    B-O-R-I-N-G. Let's move on.
    This discussion has certainly gone off on tangents, but nothing could be more common than "thread drift" (as it is sometimes called) on public net forums and probably nothing has produced more useful and interesting threads.

    As for being boring, with all due respect, why in the world do you bother to read net material you find boring? But, isn't the number of participants in the thread and their rate of posting in response to each other pretty clear evidence that there are some who find it quite interesting? If one judged from post counts/rates, it seems that this discussion is far more interesting than the average SW thread...though not to all, of course. Surely "each to his own" is the ideal philosphy for this medium, in the sense that this thread does not prevent anyone from discussing anything else they wish on SW...or even in the same thread!

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Default Re: Keeping a sugardaddy

    well i want a sugardaddy or sugarmommy. i know, eww , and gosh the whole thing just seems so dangerous!!

    anyway, people should stop misleading people. don't try to get in bet with strippers for free, and don't try to take custy's money for no reason.

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