View Poll Results: Does opposing gay rights make a person a bigot ?

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  • Yes people who oppose equal rights for gays are bigots

    35 87.50%
  • No people who oppose equal rights for gays are not bigots

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

  1. #1
    Banned LauraLove's Avatar
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    Default Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    How many people here on Stripperweb feel that people who oppose equal rights for homosexuals are in fact bigoted?

    How many people on Stripperweb do not feel that persons who oppose equal rights for homosexuals is bigoted ?

    Opinions wanted. This poll will be anonymous ( unless you choose to post your vote) so please be honest!

    I am voting yes by the way.

  2. #2
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    All or nothing? If a person believes in equal civil rights for all people, period, but balks at - not demonstrates nor writes about, but balks at - marriages for homosexuals, I take it that would fit your definition of "equal rights." But it might not fit mine. So I could also vote "yes" and still be in disagreement with you (if that is how I felt).

    This seems Political-Poo-ish.

  3. #3
    Banned LauraLove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Jay,
    I put it here because I wanted opinions from ALL types of site members and not just those who are into the Poo section.

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    God/dess AinNY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Anyone who opposes anyone else's rights is just an asshole....thats about all i know.

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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    I believe in equal rights for people. Simple as that. I do not believe in "equal rights for homosexuals" or "equal rights for African-Americans" etc because that is immediately labeling that "group". When I see a black person, I do not think "Oh...that's a black person." If a black person is an asshole, then that person is an asshole...not "that black person"...and certainly not "the black people". I also do not consider myself to be part of the "caucasion group". I'm a mutt just like damned near everyone else I know.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
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    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
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    Banned Blade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    I feel that EVERYONE deserves equal rights, regardless of race, sexual orientation etc... I also feel that NO ONE has the right to deny those equal rights to anyone

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    Veteran Member Weluckyfew's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    AinNY - although I agree with the sentiment, calling someone an asshole only lessens your argument and ensues this thread a quick trip to poo-ville

    Jay Zeno - I'm curious about your support for equal civil rights but not marriage - isn't the right to marry anyone you want (consenting adults, obviously) a basic civil right? I think the argument can be made that deciding who you can marry is the biggest decision of your life (or in the case of Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Bob Barr and other vocal advocates of "the sanctity of marriage", it's the most important three or four decisions, since they've all been married and divorced multiple times)

    since it's headed to pooville anyway....

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    God/dess AinNY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew
    AinNY - although I agree with the sentiment, calling someone an asshole only lessens your argument and ensues this thread a quick trip to poo-ville


    ummm....ok

    well thats my opinion....if a person thinks they are entitled to more rights than another human being that person is an asshole in my book....sorry if thats not PC enough for you.


    But there are times where people need to have certain rights/privledges removed(aka convicted criminals)....so its not 100% true....but for the most part you get the point.

  9. #9
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    This might be a stupid question, (or perhaps a very smart one) but would someone define in specific terms (like on an issue by issue basis) what constitutes "equal".

    As for what constitutes a "bigot" I'll leave that to Merriam-Webster (red text emphasis by me):

    Main Entry: bigĀ·ot [img]/images/audio.gif[/img]
    Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
    : a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

    I obviously don't approve on such a person's behavior under any circumstances, but it seems to me that folks who feel the need to castigate others with the B-word over disagreement on a political issue, would perhaps be better suited waving their "shame on you" finger at a mirror.

    And as Forrest Gump would say, "That's all I have to say about that".
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

  10. #10
    Banned LauraLove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    it seems to me that folks who feel the need to castigate others with the B-word over disagreement on a political issue, would perhaps be better suited waving their "shame on you" finger at a mirror.
    So if I say that people who don't think homosexuals should be have equal rights is bigoted that suddenly makes me bigot ?

    Sorry, that doesn't make sense. Point the finger elsewhere there Doc

    And really if my thinking opposing equal rights makes another person a bigot and then another person calls me a bigot for having that opinion; what does it make the person calling me a bigot ? How are they not a bigot for calling me one but somehow I am for saying someone else is....

    That is pure and utter nonesense.

    As to the technical def , I think we all know that the dictionary doesn't always give the practical day to day def. of numerous terms.

    I see we have a no vote in the poll. I'm curious if that person wouldn't mind explaining why opposing equal rights for homosexuals is not bigoted ?

    If it is not bigoted, then what is it ? If it were say opposing equal rights for heteros or for women or equal rights for other section of society would it then be bigoted ? If so, then why not for homosexuals ?

    I am having a very hard time trying to understand why it's ok, for example to fire a person who is doing top notch work in their job because they are gay ?
    Or to deny a gay person housing ?
    Or to deny a child of a gay parent into public school ? Or to deny a gay person the right to have final rights for their deceased partner ?

    In the last case why is it better to let the state take care of burial than to let a partner of 25 years do so ? Why deny these things ? Under what grounds ?

    I just don't get it
    Last edited by LauraLove; 01-03-2005 at 01:18 PM.

  11. #11
    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew
    calling someone an asshole only lessens your argument
    Not always. Sometimes it simply serves as clarification...and it is an adjective that I think is quite befitting.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
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    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

  12. #12
    Featured Member polecat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Equal rights for all people... it's pretty much the mindset in the Bay Area/Berkeley geography.

    By the same token, not everyone deserves the same things- rewards should also be based on actual accomplishments, so things such as affirmative action or other means that create a societal handicap based on other things aren't what I consider "equal rights"..

    Unfortunately, there is prejudice in this world. Gays, minorities, etc.etc.- they will always encounter prejudice in different locations. I don't think there is any one place in the US where there isn't SOME form of prejudice, it's just different areas focus on different things to be prejudice about, and are liberal about others.

    The biggest problem with prejudice is- it is a disease that spreads even to non-prejudice people. Bile and hate surrounding prejudice can turn otherwise happy, compatible people against each other. It's a natural reaction to hatred and sufferring- it flows off people that have been victims of it. This is why this problem will likely never be solved in our lifetimes.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

  13. #13
    God/dess AinNY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by MojoJojo
    Not always. Sometimes it simply serves as clarification...and it is an adjective that I think is quite befitting.



  14. #14
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraLove
    So if I say that people who don't think homosexuals should be have equal rights is bigoted that suddenly makes me bigot ?
    I don't know who wrote it, but I remember this quote off some reading pamphlets from a Poli Sci class I once took. "Those who aren't willing to listen to the opinions of others, do not fully understand their own."

    I'm not calling you or anyone in specific a bigot. But I feel people who have to resort to epithets in attempt to win an argument don't seem to realize that they're really short circuiting their own case. One who would not give a dissenting party a reasonable chance to explain their viewpoint would, yes, qualify as a bigot.

    Sorry, that doesn't make sense.
    I don't know. Seems to make perfect sense to me.

    Point the finger elsewhere there Doc
    Again, I'm not the one pointing here. I'm just telling everyone to watch where they point.

    And really if my thinking opposing equal rights makes another person a bigot and then another person calls me a bigot for having that opinion; what does it make the person calling me a bigot ? How are they not a bigot for calling me one but somehow I am for saying someone else is....
    Like I said above, rather than resort to name calling (which solves absolutely nothing) why not just give a well reasoned argument, let your opponent give a reasoned argument, and try to come to some understanding with one another. If you can't, at least agree to disagree. When people need to call each other pointless sophomoric epithets, that can't happen.

    If it is not bigoted, then what is it ?
    I don't know. Macaroni? Better question: What exactly is the answer to your question here going to solve? What does it matter what we call such people? If said people are objective wrong somehow, why not take the high road and let them discredit themselves.

    If it were say opposing equal rights for heteros or for women or equal rights for other section of society would it then be bigoted ? If so, then why not for homosexuals ?
    Again, define "equal". Some say in order to have equality, we have to enact things like affirmative action policies, some say those policies give certain individuals special rights, not equal ones.

    I am having a very hard time trying to understand why it's ok, for example to fire a person who is doing top notch work in their job because they are gay ? Or to deny a gay person housing ?
    Or to deny a child of a gay parent into public school ? Or to deny a gay person the right to have final rights for their deceased partner ?

    In the last case why is it better to let the state take care of burial than to let a partner of 25 years do so ? Why deny these things ? Under what grounds ?

    I just don't get it
    Now that's more like it. I don't understand any of why any of those discriminations make sense either, but I think if this sort of reasoning were brought up more by the gay rights movement as opposed to attempting to force "equality" through constitutionally suspect backdoor procedures, they would get a lot more of the public opinion in their favor over time.

    How do you think gays and lesbians have gotten as far as they have in the first place? Because for the most part, reason has on their side. No silly names shouted towards their opponents were needed to achieve that, as those folks pinned the scarlet letter B on themselves.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

  15. #15
    Banned LauraLove's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    I don't know who wrote it, but I remember this quote off some reading pamphlets from a Poli Sci class I once took. "Those who aren't willing to listen to the opinions of others, do not fully understand their own."
    Ah yes, but that is just it. I am willing to listen to the opinions of others, that is the whole reason I asked the question to begin with.

    As to your question of what do I mean by equal. Well, I mean just that, equal. Equal rights for both hetero and homosexuals. I don't believe that homosexuals should be discriminated against. I feel they deserve the same rights and protections in this country as a heterosexuals.

    I have heard the "special rights" argument and I think for the most part it is bull and a cover up . I have seen a few exceptions, but very few.

    In general, I am trying to find out if it is not bigotry, why not? And if not, then what is it ?

    There have been 2 "no" votes thus far. Maybe one of them will step forward and offer their explanation.

    You see my frustration is that I have never seen or heard anyone explain why they feel it's not bigotry beyond the whole "God's law" arguement. I am looking for some logical reasoning to help me better understand those who disagree with my position on this subject.

  16. #16
    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Im a man living in Virginia.I have the same equal rights to marry under the states deffinition as any other guy.
    Sounds like equal rights for gays,straights,blacks,whites,latino's etc to me.

    Im for equal SAME rights,not inventing them and saying its a right.

    Just a lil Q?
    If gays can be given the right to marry,can the 1st couisins in west Va or brothers and sisters in vermont get married or how about the mormons in utah,should they be allowed to have 25 wives??

    A gay man in america has the same rights as a straight man.

    I have no problem with that.

  17. #17
    Member MJ/Mandi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    That is not true. A gay man does NOT have the same rights as a straight man and neither does a gay woman have the same rights as a straight woman.

    The incest argument has been proven ridiculous so many times I will not waste my time explaining yet again. Here's a good article that covers this and some other related subjects :
    All boldface added by me.


    The Right Can't Win This Fight

    By Max Boot

    Los Angeles Times, May 20, 2004


    For decades, social conservatives have been fighting and losing culture wars. Contraception and abortion -- once taboo topics -- have been enshrined into law. The rates of premarital sex, out-of-wedlock births and divorce have soared since the 1950s (though lately most of these indexes have leveled off or declined slightly). In school, prayer is out; sex education is in. On TV, characters used to say "gee whiz" and sleep in twin beds; now they curse as if they had Tourette's syndrome and flash skin as if they were Gypsy Rose Lee.

    This doesn't mean that America is in cultural decline; no one who saw the response to 9/11 can think we are soft or decadent. It does mean there is little mystery about how the latest culture war -- over gay marriage -- will turn out. Opponents of same-sex marriages may have most of the public on their side for now, but they've already all but lost this battle.

    How do I know? Simply by looking at the arguments being advanced by both sides. Advocates of same-sex marriage speak in the powerful language of civil rights and liken their cause to that of African Americans fighting anti-miscegenation laws in years past. And what do opponents say in response? Once upon a time, the case would have been open and shut: Sodomy is a sin, period. Many people may still believe that, but that's no longer a tenable argument in our secularized politics.

    The U.S. Supreme Court struck down anti-sodomy laws last year. The Episcopal Church has appointed an openly gay bishop. Many newspapers carry the equivalent of wedding announcements for gays. Same-sex kisses, once shockingly daring, are now almost as common on TV as commercials for Levitra or Prozac. Given this seismic cultural shift, anyone who makes avowedly moral arguments against homosexuality now gets treated the same way homosexuals were treated only a few years ago -- as a sex-mad pervert.

    Traditionalists have tried to put forward various nonmoral arguments against gay marriage, but none is particularly convincing. They argue, first, that we shouldn't tamper with thousands of years of tradition that holds that marriage is between a man and a woman. But 141 years ago we tampered with an equally old tradition: slavery. Their second argument is the slippery slope -- first gay marriage gets legalized, then polygamy, pederasty, incest and who knows what. But this kind of reductio ad absurdum can be applied to just about anything. If liquor is legal for adults, why not for children? Society always draws the line somewhere.

    The final and strongest argument of gay marriage opponents: Don't let courts or a handful of mayors change the law on their own. Let's debate this democratically. Fine. But that will only delay the legalization of gay marriage; it won't stop it in most places. The Massachusetts judges whose diktat led to gay marriages in that state starting this week aren't operating in outer space. They are only slightly ahead of the societal consensus, just as the Supreme Court was only slightly ahead of the societal consensus when it legalized abortion in 1973. Nowadays, no matter what the court says, there isn't a state in the union that would illegalize abortion (though some might pass more restrictions than the justices would allow). In a few years, that may be true of gay marriage as well.

    Faced with virtually inevitable defeat, Republicans would be wise not to expend too much political capital pushing for a gay marriage amendment to the Constitution. They will only make themselves look "intolerant" to soccer moms whose views on this subject, as on so many others, will soon be as liberal as elite opinion already is.

    The good news, from the conservative point of view, is that it's hard to imagine that legalizing gay marriage will make much difference in the lives of most people. Certainly it will have considerably less corrosive effect on society than the prevalence of divorce and out-of-wedlock childbearing.

    If conservatives are worried about destigmatizing homosexuality, that's already happening. If they're worried this will lead to hordes of new "recruits" for the "other team" (as "Seinfeld" put it), that's not going to happen. Homosexuality always has been and always will be the preference of a tiny minority; most of us are biologically hard-wired for heterosexuality.

    Since the ultimate concern of conservatives is to preserve the institution of marriage, they would probably be better off caving on gay marriage rather than acceding to the most popular alternative: civil union. Gay marriages won't affect straights. But if civil union laws were to catch on, as Jonathan Rauch argues in his provocative new book, "Gay Marriage," many heterosexuals would probably eschew marriage altogether. That would be worse for society than seeing Rosie O'Donnell get hitched.

    Max Boot, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, writes a weekly column for the Los Angeles Times.

    Also please note that over 90% of people who have voted so far have said opposing equal rights (which ofcourse includes marriage) is bigotry.
    Last edited by MJ/Mandi; 01-07-2005 at 02:35 PM.

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ/Mandi
    That is not true. A gay man does NOT have the same rights as a straight man and neither does a gay woman have the same rights as a straight woman.
    Its not only true,its the law!!!!!!
    Can I ask what rights straight people have that gays dont if you think im wrong???

    Outside of course,the issue on straight marriage and its debate.

  19. #19
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew
    Jay Zeno - I'm curious about your support for equal civil rights but not marriage - isn't the right to marry anyone you want (consenting adults, obviously) a basic civil right?
    I was speaking in the hypothetical. Personally, I don't care who the government lets or doesn't let get married. I'll stick with my mate whatever the circumstances may be. I've never thought of "marriage" in the civil rights category - more of the societal convenience category.

    The government defines who adults are, and you need to be an adult to get married - sometimes, because differing ages of children might be able to get married, depending on the state. Differering degrees of relatives can or can't get married, depending on the state. Homosexual marriages or group marriages are not yet allowed. Someday, probably. Civil rights? No - more like civic sensibilities.

    If the government somewhere wants to allow homosexual marriage, fine. If some company wants to grant dependent rights to gay partners, great, it's their policy. Hell, if a company wants to not even have dependent or family rights whatsoever, for anyone, it's up to them.

  20. #20
    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ/Mandi
    Also please note that over 90% of people who have voted so far have said opposing equal rights (which ofcourse includes marriage) is bigotry.
    And Bush still won?
    And Cali isnt Spain anymore.

    This pole proves nothing.

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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by Weluckyfew
    Jay Zeno - I'm curious about your support for equal civil rights but not marriage - isn't the right to marry anyone you want (consenting adults, obviously) a basic civil right?
    No its not.Just like someone cant marry 5 consenting adults at the same time.

  22. #22
    Member MJ/Mandi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    And Bush still won?
    And Cali isnt Spain anymore.

    This pole proves nothing.

    Bush has nothing to do with this.

    Cali aint spain. Yes. that is true and has been for a long time

    This poll does proves something. It proves that as of today, over 90% of the people who voted think opposing equal rights for gays is bigotry.
    Last edited by MJ/Mandi; 01-07-2005 at 03:53 PM. Reason: typing too fast, us usual :)

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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    Its not only true,its the law!!!!!!
    Can I ask what rights straight people have that gays dont if you think im wrong???

    Outside of course,the issue on straight marriage and its debate.
    Sorry MnM but you are incorrect.

    equal right to employment. many places a person can be fired for their sexual orientation, no matter how good they are at their jobs. It technically called "at -will"

    oh brother I'm not going to list this again, LOL - there are over 1000 rights and protection etc , both on state and federal levels. You can look them up on most any pro- gay rights website.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    No its not.Just like someone cant marry 5 consenting adults at the same time.
    please see the article I posted on equal rights EXCEPT.... it should answer just about any arguement you can throw up on why gays should not be able to legally wed.

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ/Mandi
    Sorry MnM but you are incorrect.

    equal right to employment. many places a person can be fired for their sexual orientation, no matter how good they are at their jobs. It technically called "at -will"

    oh brother I'm not going to list this again, LOL - there are over 1000 rights and protection etc , both on state and federal levels. You can look them up on most any pro- gay rights website.
    ummmm any man,black white straight or gay has the equal rights to employment,what your describing is called discrimination,and we have laws against that,not just for gays,but ALL men equally.

    Please name a right that straight men have that gay men dont.

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    Default Re: Do you think opposing rights for homosexuals...

    To answer the poll question, while I don't know if my answer is yes, but I would definitely say that anyone who opposes gays rights is close minded. The one point that has been made by some people in this thread that boggles my mind is that there should be equal rights no matter what someones sexual orientation is, so if that person belongs to NAMBLA(North American Man Boy Lovers Association) they should have equal rights the same as everyone else, I don't think so. There are, in my opinion, quite a few situations where people shouldn't have equal rights under the law. I have no problems with gays and lesbians marrying,all the more power to them. Let them encounter all the legalities of marriage, and divorce, and they to can be as happy as at least 50 % of the straight population. The only who will definitely benefit from this are lawyers, as there will be that many more divorce cases and custody hearings for them to handle. When people say that all sexual orientations should have equal rights I don't know if they are considering NAMBLA, but the pervs that belong to that association definitely are hoping to have equal rights under the law, and if that ever happens I guess the justice system will truely become a legal system.
    The first rule of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club.

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