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Thread: New license laws: do we still live in America???

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    Sad New license laws: do we still live in America???

    I just spent the day traipising all over Reno trying to get the proper licenses and paperwork so I could work for just TWO WEEKS. I was in tears by the time I got done.

    Remember when we used to live in America, not Russia? We could travel from state to state and work and live. Not anymore. In the past two or three years, it has become nearly impossible. Also, this is an ndustry where women get stalked and killed. So, requiring us to disclose all the most intimate deatils of our lives, our relatives and children'snames, puts us at terrible risk.

    Every time you enter a new state it's like moving to a separate country if you want to work there for a while. I came to Reno to get away for two or three weeks, do some skiing and finance the trip by working for 10 or 11 days. Here what I went through today in reno:

    First, I had to go the city hall to get a city business license. They told me I had to first go to the state of Nevada IRS to get a state business license (cost:$20 cab ride, $100 license).
    I took a bus back to the city hall. There, I had to fill out 30 pages of paperwork describing where I lived for the past 10 years, landlord's phone numbers, how long I lived there, and why I left. Same for my employment history. They wanted my parents' names, and three non-relative references. Every single parking or moving violation for the past 10 years. I think I wrote my name, address and phone number about 40 times. Then I had to get the whole package notorized. Cost: $305. Then they gave me paperwork to take down to the police station to get photographed and fingerprinted. Cost: $65. Total cost to get a job in Reno: $470, not including the four hours of my day I wasted traveling to these places and standing in line and filling out paperwork. Everybody who works in a casino or bar of any kind has to do this. How do people who make minimum wage manage to do it?

    Pretty soon they will just require everybody to have a sensor surgically implanted in their skulls so they can just scan us wherever we go.

    I hear San Antonio recently started a similar program. Not only that, but tha girls have to DISPLAY their business license on their G-string. It has their real name, phone number and address on it.

    San Diego was one of the first cities to do this. In San Diego, it takes a MONTH to get your license. Their ridiculous 6-foot laws and other silly rules have done nothing but turn the strip clubs into places where johns go to meet hookers.

    So to everybody who voted Republican in the last election, THANKS A LOT!! You just cut off your own feet.

    Any thoughts, anybody? Is there anything we can do, or are we at the mercy of the "moral majority" who are trying to get rid of strippers by making our jobs impossible?


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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Sorry you had to jump thru the hoops.

    I know you dont want to hear this,but its a good thing.

    1.stops girls from comming to town in droves and making money,then leaving.What about the girls who live there?
    2.underage entertainers.This is a big one in my book.
    3.cuts down on the extras.drugs/prostitution.
    4.weeds out the fuck ups and makes your peers adhere to certain standards.

    I know its a pain in the ass,but regulation is the only thing thats going to save the future of this industry.
    There is a price to do business,any business.Yours is low on the scale.
    Try opening a restaurant sometime and see how many hoops and departments ya gotta jump thru.

    The permits are for your protection,and the girls who's job someone could be hurting by comming to town for just 2 weeks to hit it big.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by twoleftfeet

    So to everybody who voted Republican in the last election, THANKS A LOT!! You just cut off your own feet.


    Well, not to turn this into a PP thread (but I see you already did)...

    Perhaps before you go making such a overbroadened generalization, you should take a look at the partisan makeup of most mayors/city councils/county boards/state legislatures who pass these silly laws. In many cases, Democrats (and liberal Democrats at that) have been every bit as instrumental in putting them into effect.

    Any thoughts, anybody? Is there anything we can do, or are we at the mercy of the "moral majority" who are trying to get rid of strippers by making our jobs impossible?
    Well one way to start perhaps, if to know exactly who your friends are, and who your enemies are. What about the Catherine MacKinnon/Andrea Dworkin-esque feminists who seem to think dancers are mere exploited objects who can't think for themselves. Aren't they trying to make your job impossible too?

    Needless to say, considering the semi-illegal (and sometimes outright illegal) practices often involved in your line of work, you're already facing an uphill battle. No need to make it any more difficult by chastising people on your own side for doing their civic duty as they see fit.
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Sorry hun I had to do all that too...F Reno......crazy town...Though I wouldve liked a chance to work at Wild Orchid? This lisence thing is a joke I think....thats a lisence anywhere.
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    Featured Member Meea's Avatar
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    I had to go through a similar process: go get passport photos, go to police station, wait 2 hours, for a letter describing my previous crimes, go to city hall, run around like mad cow from floor to floor, lineup to lineup, to get everything put toger, fill out paperwork that the club supplied and end up paying about $250.
    THE BEST PART? THIS LICENCE IS ONLY GOOD FOR ONE CLUB!


    Didn't I hear somewhere that the reason they make you clearly display you license on stage is to shut down the clubs? What assholes would actually come out and say the truth? They could have made up a lie like the police being able to question someone more efficiently or some shit like that... But you are right, I think.. They are trying to make our jobs impossible so that we'd quit - not for any other reason, it appears..

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    1.stops girls from comming to town in droves and making money,then leaving.What about the girls who live there?
    2.underage entertainers.This is a big one in my book.
    3.cuts down on the extras.drugs/prostitution.
    4.weeds out the fuck ups and makes your peers adhere to certain standards.
    I agree with this 100%. In addition, with the major tax cuts and cuts in federal funding to the states; states and cities are looking for creative ways for revenue. States taxes and fees across the board in all states have risen dramatically. Think of the whole picture next time you support a tax cut that dominately benefits the wealthy. Your own possible personal benefits of the tax cuts are eaten by state and local fees, fines and taxes. I know this isn't the political board, but it's relevant. I really don't think it's an issue of percieved morals. More like an issue of (like the other poster said) crime prevention, protecting the city's and it's worker's interests, as well as a new source of revenue for the city.
    Last edited by devilsadvocate667; 01-12-2005 at 06:16 AM.


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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish

    Well one way to start perhaps, if to know exactly who your friends are, and who your enemies are. What about the Catherine MacKinnon/Andrea Dworkin-esque feminists who seem to think dancers are mere exploited objects who can't think for themselves. Aren't they trying to make your job impossible too?
    Oh boy, here we go! Lets take this into the PP board, you need to be set straight about reality. Always the liberals fault, eh? Of course conservatives are as pure as the driven snow and make no mistakes. LOL! But this argument is for another board.


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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Ya know at least you can claim the license as a tax deduction??!!
    But, wow Reno licensing has changed alot in the past 2 years!!!
    $470!!!!!! Your f-ing kidding me??? Thats crazy and to think thats only for one club.
    Hope you make lotsa cash to help you cover that in the mean time.

    In March of 2002 I paid about $175 all together...those places are never open long enough and have time to take you....sucks alot. Good Luck though.
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by twoleftfeet
    I hear San Antonio recently started a similar program. Not only that, but tha girls have to DISPLAY their business license on their G-string. It has their real name, phone number and address on it.

    I would think that would be a major violation of privacy. I can't think of any other profession that would require such a display of personal information. That's insane. Lawsuits.. that's all I can think of. Talk about endangerment.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Me, I don't mind girls coming to town and making money and then leaving. I've done it myself a few times. Liscencing a dancer is about one thing: sin tax. It's not like a cab driver, where we need special tests and there are administrative costs attached to it. It's just because we're immoral and they can make us pay for it. Like, here, we now need police clearance. Why? What for? I don't need to be bonded, or insured. I don't handle anyone's money except my own (unlike, for example, the waitress or bartender). There is no reason that a police check is necessary for me to do my job. It's just a way of making us suffer.
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    hi i wanted to ask if you know is this for all of nevada now i worked in vegas last year and just had to get my sheriffs card it was like 45.00 dollars and suppose to be good for five years i would hate to go back to vegas and find out i cant work without these new licenses.Also wanted to say that is crap what they did too you .

    thanks
    otheia

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    If they are going to violate our rights like that then they should come down on the club owners who don't treat us like employees- if we have to register then we should get benefits and be entitled to the same rights everyone else. Problem is too many girls don;t stand up. For instance, if you work at a club where you signed an independant contractor agreement, it is illegal for your club to require you to make a schedule or pay house fees.
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    I do agree with you that anyone who voted Republican cut off their own feet. A lot that is dishonest is behind the Bush Administration, the biggest threat I assume you are talking about involves the monetary control of this adminsitration by the Christian Conservatives.

    The Christian Conservatives are behind the scenes pushing to eradicate sexually oriented businesses in this country by their push of family values and their desire to make our laws more biblically based.

    But, politicians in cities across the country where anti dance club ordinances and licensing requirements are being implemented, are Republicans and Democrats.

    The financial muscle of the Christian Coalition forces politicians to "show" that they are doing something to curb our business and if these politicians don't, their days in office will be numbered.

    Also many cities take a two pronged approach to this by finding a way to create additional revenue through licensing while making it "appear" they are trying to run clubs out of business.

    In other words all these tight strip club laws are a cover your ass approach used by politicians to keep from being pressured out of office for "morals" issues.

    As far as house fees and Independent Contractor status is concerned, where will a club get money to operate and pay the legal fees needed to stay in business if it did not charge house fees.

    Schedules are designed to keep a proper balance of dancers per shift.

    Now some owners are greedy and charge more house fees than are reasonable given the earning potential in their club, but in most businesses, financial greed is a problem.

    As far as Las Vegas is concerned there is much behind the scenes pressure on the politicians there to keep the clubs in check. The business license is just a ploy to gain more revenue for the city.

    What needs to happen in Las Vegas is for girls to stop coming. I would say 2/3 of the dancers there are making little or no money due to the clubs being oversaturated with girls,greed running the customers away or making them more cautious, and vice making more visits than they ever did in the 90's.

    Many dancers are young and when they think of Vegas think it offers the income potential of the 90's today. Somehow the word needs to get put out in a big way that more girls are losing money than making it in Vegas and working in clubs there is as risky as playing a slot machine. The house always wins. There is more steady money to make in a regular city dancing than in Vegas and it is easier to sell guys in a regular city as well.

    Let there be a shortage of dancers and house fees will drop and conditions will improve for dancers.

    This business reached it's peak in the middle to late 90's and is on the decline now. Regulation is hurting the business.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina
    As far as house fees and Independent Contractor status is concerned, where will a club get money to operate and pay the legal fees needed to stay in business if it did not charge house fees.

    Schedules are designed to keep a proper balance of dancers per shift.
    Oh no. Really think about this assertion. I've heard it before, and I'm pretty sure that any club that needs money from its employees to stay in business doesn't have enough customers to support the dancers. A business cannot just feed off of itself - it's ridiculous. The purpose of schedules has no impact on the assertion that creating them is illegal if we are independent contractors. To keep a proper balance of dancers they could do all sorts of legal things like A) hire dancers as employees or B) try to make certain shifts (e.g. Monday afternoons) more desirable. Seems simple?

    Really, it's beside the point - most dancers are aware that they are being illegally exploited. It's just that very few think that any legal action is going to make much of a difference, and I think you have to be pretty committed to principle to really care enough to actually take it on. But I mean really. We don't actually have to apologize for them, do we?
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    anyone who voted Republican?? Are you nuts? (Sorry to offend) Republicans are FOR
    free enterprise and less government regulation... sounds like you are blaming the wrong
    party. But lots of commercial activity is regulated... you need a license to be a barber,
    an electrician, a realtor, a plumber, etc. You can argue that some of this is good...
    but mostly these trade boards that regulate who can join the business are there for
    the purpose of keeping newcomers and outsiders out. Maybe strippers should also
    regulate themselves with a quasi-government board. Or maybe we can all just agree
    to vote Libertarian.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    quote: As far as house fees and Independent Contractor status is concerned, where will a club get money to operate and pay the legal fees needed to stay in business if it did not charge house fees.


    what about charging $8 for a beer? I suppose there's not much profit in that?

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Sorry you had to go through this, hun.

    I was in Reno this past weekend with twoleftfeet right before she went to get the license.

    There has to be a middle ground, but then no one said navigating bureaucracy of any kind was easy.

    On a more personal note, I'm pissed off to have come home from Nevada to see a letter from the Nevada Bureau of Taxation asking for ANOTHER $100 by the end of the month to renew my license just when I paid $100 this past October to get it in the first place! It hasn't even been a full year, in fact barely 3 months! THAT pisses me off.

    Licenses in and of themselves aren't necessarily a bad thing, what gets me is the "rules" that often accompany them, such as ludicrous ticketing for "prostitution" for accepting a tip on stage from a customer. I mean, look what happened to Houston. It became known as extras capital USA soon after the no contact laws started.

    Anyhow, it's not so much about political parties, IMO, but it definitely has to do in part creative fundraising and part hypocritical attitudes towards regulating the sex industry
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    ...
    I know you dont want to hear this,but its a good thing.
    ...
    There is a price to do business,any business.Yours is low on the scale.
    Try opening a restaurant sometime and see how many hoops and departments ya gotta jump thru.
    They are not opening a restaurant; they are just trying to work as independent contractors in an already-licensed business. No reason their health re contagious diseases and any criminal records should not be inspected though, given the thru-put of dancers in this place. This is just the city's way of regulating the number of new strippers because they have enough already.

    Further, I'm sure they don't care too much about loss of personal security. I can tell you for sure that the Police don't care about that risk. They like to pursue strippers, and the additional business gives them job security. BAD PLACE TO WORK.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    hey ladies this ia a question if u worker in vegas do you have to get a new licence in reno??


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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Re: Reno, NV

    Taxation license is state, business license is county so *yes* on the latter. Taxation license is good throughout the state. You will also need your sherrif's card for Washoe County.

    To make things quicker in Reno, get the tax dealie first. The office is on Keitzke. Then go get your Biz License at City Hall which is right on the edge of downtown. Then go to the police station and get your card... other edge of downtown. Keep in mind they close for like a two hour lunch. These are good at ALL clubs and you do not diplay your license on your body. Oh, and the license fees are based on what you say is your income so claiming less will cost you less. You can always up it when you renew. Even the cosmotologists I know do that. Once you have filled out your initial application, you can renew by mail.

    It really isn't a big deal, you just have to know where to go. The information is all spread out and the different branches don't communicate well with one another so it can become frustrating.
    Last edited by Veronika; 01-27-2005 at 10:41 AM. Reason: added info
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    Sorry you had to jump thru the hoops.

    I know you dont want to hear this,but its a good thing.

    1.stops girls from comming to town in droves and making money,then leaving.What about the girls who live there?
    2.underage entertainers.This is a big one in my book.
    3.cuts down on the extras.drugs/prostitution.
    4.weeds out the fuck ups and makes your peers adhere to certain standards.

    I know its a pain in the ass,but regulation is the only thing thats going to save the future of this industry.
    There is a price to do business,any business.Yours is low on the scale.
    Try opening a restaurant sometime and see how many hoops and departments ya gotta jump thru.

    The permits are for your protection,and the girls who's job someone could be hurting by comming to town for just 2 weeks to hit it big.
    I have to say that I agree with that. I don't have a problem with girls who want to work and follow the rules, that's fine by me , but I also don't really want to be working next to a felon if I can help it.

    I think permits help, to some extent anyway, keep out at least some problem types. I think we need more standards in the industry in general.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Q. Do we still live in America?
    A. No! We currently live in a facist, republican, christian, nazi/police state Hell.
    Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. - M Rivero

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    Sorry you had to jump thru the hoops.

    I know you dont want to hear this,but its a good thing.

    1.stops girls from comming to town in droves and making money,then leaving.What about the girls who live there?
    2.underage entertainers.This is a big one in my book.
    3.cuts down on the extras.drugs/prostitution.
    4.weeds out the fuck ups and makes your peers adhere to certain standards.
    That sounds good Green..but unfortunately it had the total opposite reaction in Houston.
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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    I think the license is mostly to get us to pay taxes. And to keep owners from hiring illegal workers. The clubs I've worked at that require women to get their licenses are much "cleaner" than the ones that did not. And the managers at the clubs that require it have always been much more concerned with the girl's welfare than those that did not. I admit that it's a pain in the ass and WAY more expensive in certain cities than it should be (get this-in OC one city charges only $15.00 while the neighboring city charges $290.00) but it really is kinda worth it.

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    Default Re: New license laws: do we still live in America???

    I have to concur that trying to blame dancer licensing/regulation on conservatives is sweeping and often incorrect. The christian maniacs want to close clubs down period, not to license and regulate dancers. The dancer's licensing thing, business licenses, paying fees etc. is straight from the liberal "hidden tax" school boys and girls ! Also in the vast majority of cases any licensing and regulation requirements (i.e. anti-dance club ordinances) are enacted by local governments which can be liberal or conservative or anywhere in between - all will stoop to persecuting dancers and strip clubs for the free publicity in an election year !

    As long as we're politicizing this subject, keep in mind that liberal government thinking typically does not feel that prostitution is a crime. In extremely liberal western europe, liberal policies have allowed 80% of the clubs to offer sex on stage and sex with customers for money. Consider very liberal US cities like San Francisco, where the mayor and DA are on record as not wasting police resources to bust strip clubs (with a recent exception of a few club busts - which drew a maelstrom of complaints from local residents and a return to the no bust policy). When a city gov't is so liberal that dancers know they won't be busted for offering customers HJ's, BJ's and FS, even though it is technically still illegal, guess what happens to the income potential of dancers who don't want to offer HJ's and BJ's but who have to work alongside other dancers who do competing for customers who have come to expect maximum 'bang' for their bucks !

    I also agree that local ordinances which establish distance rules, outlaw titty tips or lap dances etc. are totally counter-productive. When the legal penalty for dancing too close or taking a titty tip (i.e. violating a dancing ordinance) becomes exactly the same as being caught giving HJ's BJ's and FS (i.e. violating state prostitution laws), it doesn't take long for some girls to figure out that they can earn lots more money by giving HJ's and BJ's ! And if and when these girls are busted, the ton of extra money they earned giving HJ's and BJ's usually allows them to hire a top notch attorney and beat the charge, whereas the clean dancer relying on a public defender or club's attorney will get stuck with a plea bargain or guilty verdict and a black mark on their criminal record.

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