Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Torture, theory meets reality

  1. #1
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Torture, theory meets reality

    Thought of doing this as a poll, but it will likely be controversial enough as is. Thoughts of the questions I posted here are gruesome, but that is common anymore in this damned war.

    Here's an article...
    "BAGHDAD: Iraq yesterday announced the capture of a senior aide to leading militant Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, hours after Zarqawi claimed responsibility for a suicide car bomb near the offices of Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.
    The seizure of Abu Omar Al Kurdi, accused of masterminding some of the worst car bombings in Iraq, appeared to be a major breakthrough for the authorities ahead of Sunday's historic election, which Zarqawi and his followers have vowed to disrupt.

    Abu Omar, also known as Sami Mohammed Al Jafi, was seized in a raid in Baghdad on January 15, the government said. He is blamed for over 30 bombings including the attack on the UN headquarters in August 2003 which killed special envoy Sergio Vieira de Mello and 20 others, and a blast in Najaf the same month which killed 80, including a top Shi'ite cleric."

    This seems to be a very important find. Possible direct lead to Zarqawi.

    Now If this murderer suspect doesn't talk and is highly likely to have made the bombs....
    Should the goon squads have at him with extreme but not life-threatening techniques, as Rumsfeld reportedly allowed before?
    Would the squad be faced with legal actions by US law?
    Are the facts that being in another country, facing a foreign war criminal intent on mass-murdering citizens of that country and other as well as US soldiers enough to justify near-extreme torture measures?
    Possibility of his death?

    Looking for your individual ideas, not arguments with each other. We sure don't need that here.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  2. #2
    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2004
    Location
    Virginia countryside.
    Posts
    3,299
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer
    Should the goon squads have at him with extreme but not life-threatening techniques, as Rumsfeld reportedly allowed before?
    Yes.
    But this time,it should be an iraq goon squad,not American,led by the family members of those he killed.
    Would the squad be faced with legal actions by US law?
    Yes.
    But they would be from Iraq and it wouldnt matter.
    If it can be done without some fuckin reporter present,it wont be a problem IMO.
    Are the facts that being in another country, facing a foreign war criminal intent on mass-murdering citizens of that country and other as well as US soldiers enough to justify near-extreme torture measures?
    as long as its covert and CNN doesnt get pictures,
    Yes.
    Possibility of his death?
    If someones life means the destruction of many other lives,guess what?
    I say kill the fucker slow,make him talk.
    Looking for your individual ideas, not arguments with each other. We sure don't need that here.
    Fuck you asshole!!!!
    wanna step outside and say that???
    (MODS,this is a joke,please dont delete entire post,just this part if you dont see the freekin humor in it.)

  3. #3
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    120
    Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Well, I don't think stripping someone butt naked and throwing them in a cell full of rock music and continous light is legitimately "torture."

    Some people seem to equate discomfort with torture. Using a drill to burrow a hole in someone's hand - torture. Putting someone on a dog leash - not torture.

    Humiliation is not torture. If it was, we would have to prosecute most high school students sometime in that four years of hell.

    If anything it knocks a couple chips off the shoulder of those types.

    Real torture doesn't do shit for interrogations. That is all about keeping the population in line - you disappear and all kinds of horrible stories show up so everyone walks the line. Then the person comes back with one eye and half a leg and everyone really walks the line properly from the example that has been made.

    Drug them up, get them drunk, push the pride button (this usually does the trick - people loves to brag and boast) ... there are a lot of ways to put together what someone says as truth or story.

  4. #4
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2002
    Location
    On a sweet muddy river.
    Posts
    6,399
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 78 Times in 43 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    I don't think torture produces good information. I'd rather see an experienced professional use well proven techniques than some goons beat the shit out of him until he says what they want to hear.



  5. #5
    kymchoon
    Guest

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Well, I don't think stripping someone butt naked and throwing them in a cell full of rock music and continous light is legitimately "torture."
    Depends. How long were they like that for? That kind of technique will slowly break down their psyche - do it for long enough, and the subject will probably go insane.

  6. #6
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    120
    Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Quote Originally Posted by kymchoon
    Depends. How long were they like that for? That kind of technique will slowly break down their psyche - do it for long enough, and the subject will probably go insane.
    I agree.

    There are problems like that in Pelican Bay over social isolation and continous lock up. Studying these issues can help in understanding as I am sure the military info is a "state secret."

  7. #7
    kymchoon
    Guest

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    ^ So are you now retracting your previous statement and saying that it is torture?

  8. #8
    kymchoon
    Guest

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Not that I have any problem with torture, mind you (as an information-gathering technique). But I think that if we're going to do it, just admit it and call a spade a spade.

  9. #9
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,493
    Thanks
    120
    Thanked 50 Times in 35 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Quote Originally Posted by kymchoon
    ^ So are you now retracting your previous statement and saying that it is torture?
    If they start wiping the walls down with shit I would say they got tortured.

    There is an element of time and the subject's subjectivity to take into account.

    Go to far and you get information about pink elephants and how they see balloons in the air. That is not useful.

  10. #10
    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    5,670
    Thanks
    35
    Thanked 144 Times in 74 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    I don't think torture produces good information. I'd rather see an experienced professional use well proven techniques than some goons beat the shit out of him until he says what they want to hear.
    Agreed.

    Making them uncomfortable at all times except when it's time for their daily interrogation session is a very effective means of doing this, as I'm told by someone who used to do this regularly.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  11. #11
    Member HoldThePickle's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    36
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena
    I don't think torture produces good information. I'd rather see an experienced professional use well proven techniques than some goons beat the shit out of him until he says what they want to hear.
    I agree with Lena. I also believe violence begets violence

  12. #12
    God/dess Lena's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2002
    Location
    On a sweet muddy river.
    Posts
    6,399
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 78 Times in 43 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer
    Agreed.

    Making them uncomfortable at all times except when it's time for their daily interrogation session is a very effective means of doing this, as I'm told by someone who used to do this regularly.
    True. Social isolation breeds social reliance on one's captors. Allegiance and dedication, too, according to some researchers (look at all the kidnapping victims who defend their kidnappers - it's a psychological phenomena - if criminals can do it why can't our military?).

    Lena



  13. #13
    God/dess threlayer's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    5,921
    Thanks
    369
    Thanked 419 Times in 290 Posts
    My Mood
    Fine

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    From the news it looks like that capture is providing a lot of history and is revealing some current weapons loications. The first prize would be the current HQ location of al-Zirqawi, but I have to assume he's moved on already.

    I really don't know a thing about torture nor was I concerned about those specifics in this discussion. But fear factor seems to be a very sadistic TV show (I will NOT watch it); it is even obscene in many ways, IMHO. Finding someone's pressure point by going even beyond that way may yield some terrific revelations if it is done gradually enough. I hear that Iraq is heavily populated by scorpions.

    But this guy may start to "sing like a canary" from indications so far. (Sorry for that simile; it is those old Edward G Robinson movies.)
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

  14. #14
    Banned
    Joined
    Jan 2003
    Location
    B.C & USA
    Posts
    1,869
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Torture, theory meets reality

    problem is how can the US complain (or attack other nations) when others use torture to gather intell info if we do it ourselves ?????

    What kind of messgae does that send ?

    It's wrong when others do it but just fine if its the US doing it ????

    Logical?
    Not at all.

Similar Threads

  1. Heidi Fleiss + Bunny Ranch meets Big Bang Theory?
    By Candy Girl in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-29-2011, 09:55 PM
  2. Proof of torture at Gitmo
    By LadyLuck in forum Member Boards
    Replies: 86
    Last Post: 06-25-2008, 08:42 PM
  3. More than Meets the Eye
    By Mastridonicus in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 12-14-2007, 09:54 AM
  4. My week of torture
    By gypsy_girlchild in forum Stripping (was Stripping General)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-08-2006, 09:05 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •