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Thread: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Why do you guys think men hate strippers? I mean I find guys in clubs can generally be divided into two camps - those who come to admire women, and with whom you can generally do no wrong - even if they don't buy dances or whatever, and those that come in because they enjoy seeing women in such subservient positions (the guys that want to hold their twenties on a string and make you bat at it like a kitten fall into this camp). Is it just an issue of moral superiority? Sexual bitterness? Bitterness because women have available to them this low-skill job that has the potential to be lucrative, while men don't, so much? I mean we've all heard "You're just USING your BODY (like these are dirty words) to get ahead" etc.

    For that matter, why do women hate strippers? I mean, women can also mainly be divided into two camps - those who glamorize, and yak about how they'd love to do it if... (they were prettier, younger, thinner, weren't married, whatever) and those who... don't. I mean, the percentage of guys in North America who spend their entire paycheque on a stripper can't be THAT high, so it's not simple jealousy.

    Sorry, I've just been dealing with a lot of ... well, you know. And I'm really wondering.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Hmmm. Well I fall more into the former camp than the latter, but I'll say one thing...

    Strippers are kind of like trust fund babies to me--they have this tremendous asset which many of their peers don't which opens doors/creates opportunities. I blanche when people like that make a statement that seems insensitive to the fact that not everyone has the opportunities/blessings that they do. Most commonly in the case of strippers, it comes out in asking why on earth a nice (but clearly unattractive) guy would ever think he has a chance with them. From a class of people who resent being judged on superficialities, that strikes me as somewhat unfair. Don't get me wrong--feel free to say no--but don't hold it against the guy for trying just because he's ugly (on the other hand, several strippers would hold it against the guy regardless, at least inside the club. That's fine so long as it's fair and balanced.). Trust fund babies are the same way with job choices--they can express disdain for people who are willing to do common/boring jobs, without appreciating that they are only able to be freelance travel writers because of their eight-figure bank accounts from Daddy.

    For the population at large, I'd guess that (as you highlight in the post) some of what you perceive as hatred is just men trying to live out their control fantasies as they relate to sex or what have you. In some of these cases, it's not that the guy wants to actually degrade the woman in question (or any woman), but that he wants to play that game with them. I'd guess some significant fraction of guys who do things like the twenty-batting game would be mortified if they realized you actually found them objectionable for asking--some probably wouldn't, of course.

    But the most basic reason is the Fox and Grapes reason--if we can't have you, then you're not worth having anyway. I think women might dislike strippers because they think that strippers perpetuate unhealthy stereotypes, as well as because they see strippers as potential homewreckers.

    I don't think a sense of moral superiority or jealousy of your earnings would enter into the equation for most SC customers, or in the latter case for the population at large.

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Yeah, I'm thinking in re: the women that it's simple jealousy. You look better. You smell better. You make more money. Every man in the room- including HER man- is positively drooling over you. It takes a confident woman to resist the green-eyed furies... and, frankly, most American women are not that confident.

    As to the men, goodness only know who pissed in their Cheerios. It's fun to smartass off though. Nothing says you're worthless like a beautiful scantily-clad woman who won't fuck you and is also smarter than you.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    Strippers are kind of like trust fund babies to me--they have this tremendous asset which many of their peers don't which opens doors/creates opportunities.
    I'm going to have to say Bibbity-bobbity-boo to this one. It's a total myth that one has to be supermodel-esque (albeit with bigger tits) to work/make money as a stripper. I have had co-workers who fit this description, but most of us are merely normal women.



    Most commonly in the case of strippers, it comes out in asking why on earth a nice (but clearly unattractive) guy would ever think he has a chance with them.
    This one is wrong as well. Could be just my club (though I doubt that) but our customers are no more or less attractive than men you would find in the mall; ie, mostly normal, a few nice asses, a few blubbery uglies.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Veteran Member bigteninch's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Jenny, just two camps huh? Sounds like you group people into just two categories and then form a perception based on that of them...

    I have to admit, the visual of you batting at a 20 bill on a string like a kitten is kinda amusing, and sounds like it could be fun in the right circumstances - but then I am just weird....

    Remeber the real camps.... they used to have names, so to make this even more interesting, it wold be fun if each camp had their own "camp name".

    Well, for me - i disliked one stripper when she rudely placed her gum on my chair - she was a bitch and jeolous of me giving attention to another girl. I also dislike girls with attitudes who act like "your not good enough for me" and have a temperment like a pitt bull and a face like a monkey, but the rest - and I would say like 90% of the chicks I meet in a club are very real - they seem sincere, they are warm and caring individuals, some may be cynical but honest, some may be shy, some may be in-your-face friendly, wow there is a lot of different kinds and it seems like i am not even close to describing the 90% - my guess??/ i have coverered maybe 1% of the 90%. - so like 2 girls in a typical club of lke 20 dancers.

    But to answer your question, why do "men" hate strippers....

    "they get money for nothing and their chicks for free..."

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    I dont think men hate strippers. The ones that do that powerplay of you working hard for that 20 bucks are just that. I dont think they hate then although some of the wierdos such as Mermaidz's one are well spoken for by their own words. Some just like the power of a woman working for them. OTOH they are the ones wanting you and giving their money even if it is very stingily.
    I wouldnt say this is a low-skill job as GoldCoastGirl noted in another thread this is a sales skills job. If a girl has absolutely no sales skills she better be every mans dream. but, sales skills is a must. Who cares if your not "perfect" a strong sales ethic will work for everyone. Of coure taking great care of your body never hurts either..that comes with feeling good and having confidence in yourself.
    I mean we've all heard "You're just USING your BODY (like these are dirty words) to get ahead" etc.
    Ive heard that too....but they dont know were all playing a "mind game" with them. The arm touching, flirting, over coming objections, keeping the conversation to a sexy in the mood topic, being a lady etc etc. Those are just a couple of ways were not just using our body but the brain in that body too.
    Again, I dont think men hate strippers but most seem to push aside that we are at work and that this is all a fantasy.
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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Who cares if we're "using our body"? For that matter, so do models and football players. Anyone here think Halle Berry landed her role in Catwoman based on the Oscar she won?
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Lilith,

    Do you just like to fight? Are you really arguing that the average stripper is roughly the same-looking as the average woman? After the previous post where you talk about how women hate strippers because every man in the room is drooling over them?

    And the other place where you call me "wrong"--read my post. I'm not saying the average strip club customer looks like anything--you're inferring it. All I'm saying is that pooh-poohing the romantic notions of some guy because he's not particularly good-looking leaves a bad taste in my mouth the same way it does when rich guys (or girls) talk about how pedestrian the aspirations are of people who are working for a living.

    I don't want to fight with you. It's your board--I just live in it. And you're smart. But you're not always right, and I'd appreciate you not chiming in to disparage or spin my posts, especially in cases like this where on the one hand your POV is clearly incorrect (as you yourself imply in your previous post) and on the other hand you've leapt to some conclusion that wasn't warranted by my post just so you could bash a straw man.
    Last edited by Lurker; 01-26-2005 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    I think some/alot of men hate strippers because it's yet another woman who they can't have or get attention from (without paying for it) Men in often have to deal with ALOT of rejection in life and not limited to romance either. Sports , work etc. I notice guys can be very rough on eachother too- like how many times have you heard a man call another man a "pussy" ? Alot, right? And as women we have to be so blunt ( because of the one who dont take no for an answer) that sometimes guys get turned down alot ruder than is really needed. Men start to build alot of resentment overtime.

    I think other women who hate strippers do it because they are fearful that they will lose their man (or any man) to a dancer who maybe more attractive or more exciting than themselves.
    Last edited by Tigerlilly; 01-26-2005 at 11:55 AM.

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Anyones blunt view of the topis is nice to me....thanks Lilith
    But, Lurker I dont think she was trying to make strippers seem so average at all.

    BTW It is a business...I am genuine most of the time. And YES the average SCer is not attractive he is the same guy youd see at Good Guys are in the grocery store.He is the same guy I am only half naked next to him thats different. And in most settings I wouldnt look twice but that brings it back to business. We are only there to make money....put the money in the hand and Ill do a lil dance. Its and adult theme park is all.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
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    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    I honestly dont know why men are like that. Some are really cool, and understand the sc business, and I guess its just other men that dont, and that think you are so hard up for $ that you will go home with them. Like someone said once, the men sometimes think you are unhappy, just "using your body", and want to be the knight in shining armor to take you away from the sc world. Most guys that are in sc's think the gals are single, which most of the time isnt so. And no, if I guy were in a club, no matter how cute or whatever he was, I wouldnt have anything to do with him outside of the club. I could care less. I am just working him for the $. And as for women..I think it probably is jealousy, maybe their so's wont let them strip and they want to, or they think they could never do what the strippers do, ect ect.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigersMilk
    I wouldnt say this is a low-skill job as GoldCoastGirl noted in another thread this is a sales skills job. If a girl has absolutely no sales skills she better be every mans dream. but, sales skills is a must. Who cares if your not "perfect" a strong sales ethic will work for everyone. Of coure taking great care of your body never hurts either..that comes with feeling good and having confidence in yourself.
    When I said "low skill job" I didn't mean easy - I meant that it requires no special education or training.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigteninch
    Jenny, just two camps huh? Sounds like you group people into just two categories and then form a perception based on that of them...
    Well, how many camps do you think I need? Guys MOSTLY fit into one of the above. Doesn't mean I necessarily have a great hatred for them, but even guys that are nice to you are very condescending and assume their superiority over you. Like even when guys of the latter type say that you are smart - usually in the context of smarter than most strippers, smart for a stripper, smart for a girl etc. - it never seems to occur to them (even when they know) that I am better educated than they, more literate and that their evaluation of my intelligence is so irrelevant that it can't even make me laugh most of the time (I'm not saying here that I am smarter than all my customers, or better educated or more literate. This just applies to the cases in which I am) and most of the time they are not referring to anything even remotely resembling intelligence - they are referring to how AMUSING I am.

    Okay. I tangented. Point is, that there is a school of guys that comes in to innately feel superior to women (Naomi Wolfe said years ago that beauty was the one remaining arena in which ALL men can judge ALL women) and whether they are nice about it or not, it can still be degrading.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigteninch
    I have to admit, the visual of you batting at a 20 bill on a string like a kitten is kinda amusing, and sounds like it could be fun in the right circumstances - but then I am just weird....
    Yes. You are weird. And actually, suddenly struck by the visual, I think I should be in advertising.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    Strippers are kind of like trust fund babies to me--they have this tremendous asset which many of their peers don't which opens doors/creates opportunities.
    To which opportunities and peers are you referring? Because MOST strippers are not drop dead gorgeous. They are mostly girls who are on the pretty side of the "average" spectrum. I mean, you don't know what I look like, but I am painfully average. Like, definitely pretty, but not so that you'd notice, if you get my meaning. And yet. Most of the girls that post their pictures here are the very beautiful girls - they are not (in my experience) indicative of any club average or median. So I would argue that MOST women have the opportunity. Or like, do you mean dating opportunities? Because stripping, being pretty, and dating etiquette are all separate issues. I agree that it is mean to be rude to anyone who gathers up the courage to ask you out - unless he (or she) does it in a very rude fashion. My mother actually taught me that it was very rude to refuse to dance with anyone (like dance, dance, not dancing involving nudity) who got up and walked across the floor to ask you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    For the population at large, I'd guess that (as you highlight in the post) some of what you perceive as hatred is just men trying to live out their control fantasies as they relate to sex or what have you.
    Are you talking about Dom/Sub things? Because that is a sort of separate issue, and those guys can go into either category.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    Lilith,

    Do you just like to fight?
    I've disagreed with you twice, and this means I'm picking fights? You need thicker skin. The only person who will smile and nod approvingly to your every word is your mother, otherwise resign yourself to adult give-and-take.

    Are you really arguing that the average stripper is roughly the same-looking as the average woman? After the previous post where you talk about how women hate strippers because every man in the room is drooling over them?
    We're scantily-clothed; they're not. Of course the men are drooling in the direction of the bare ass he can see vs. the clothed ass he's already seen so often he could draw it from memory.

    And yes, most strippers are average women who started out looking no different than most any other woman. Take almost any woman off the street (in a classy club example, she must start out no more than ten pounds overweight); give her a boob job, manicure, pedicure, Brazilian wax, ten tons of hideously expensive professional makeup, cut/color/style and maybe extensions, regular tanning sessions, and a workout routine and voila! A stripper. I've seen it first-hand. I've also seen homely girls with the muscle tone of forty pounds of jello, who don't comb their hair nor wear makeup, storm a crowd and pull in several hundred nightly because they can hustle that flabby behind like no one's business.

    It's all a matter of balls and effort.

    And the other place where you call me "wrong"--read my post. I'm not saying the average strip club customer looks like anything--you're inferring it. All I'm saying is that pooh-poohing the romantic notions of some guy because he's not particularly good-looking leaves a bad taste in my mouth the same way it does when rich guys (or girls) talk about how pedestrian the aspirations are of people who are working for a living.
    Welcome to the internet, Lurker, where- absent facial expression, tone and inflexion- you will be misunderstood. Happens to me all the time. You wouldn't believe the number of times people have had to learn that I'm not bitchy, merely blunt and refuse to use smilies to make my post seem harmless.

    Smilies are da debbil.

    I don't want to fight with you. It's your board--I just live in it. And you're smart. But you're not always right, and I'd appreciate you not chiming in to disparage or spin my posts,
    I'm not interested in fighting with you either (and I'm fairly sure Pryce might disagree that it's my board). For that to happen though, you're going to have to toughen up a bit. You are free to post just about anything you please; the tricky part is that this applies to everyone, and they can use that freedom to disagree with what you just wrote. I can't speak for everyone but I disagree to make my point more clear, rather than to piss off the person with whom I disagreed.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Like even when guys of the latter type say that you are smart - usually in the context of smarter than most strippers, smart for a stripper, smart for a girl etc. - it never seems to occur to them (even when they know) that I am better educated than they, more literate and that their evaluation of my intelligence is so irrelevant that it can't even make me laugh most of the time (I'm not saying here that I am smarter than all my customers, or better educated or more literate. This just applies to the cases in which I am) and most of the time they are not referring to anything even remotely resembling intelligence - they are referring to how AMUSING I am.
    Hear fucking hear. I'd prefer it if they just told me they loved my tits and let it go at that rather than tell me how impressed they are that I'm smart. Go look at one of my blog entries (on my site) -- I went on a rant about this exact thing.

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilith
    Yeah, I'm thinking in re: the women that it's simple jealousy. You look better. You smell better. You make more money. Every man in the room- including HER man- is positively drooling over you. It takes a confident woman to resist the green-eyed furies... and, frankly, most American women are not that confident.

    As to the men, goodness only know who pissed in their Cheerios. It's fun to smartass off though. Nothing says you're worthless like a beautiful scantily-clad woman who won't fuck you and is also smarter than you.

    Well put,I agree!

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny
    Well, how many camps do you think I need? Guys MOSTLY fit into one of the above. Doesn't mean I necessarily have a great hatred for them, but even guys that are nice to you are very condescending and assume their superiority over you. Like even when....
    two works for you! Consider me in a tent on the banks of the river in a comune just down the stream from utopia....

    cheers

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    Im gonna dance real carful in this thread's minefield.

    i dont think all men hate strippers.I think im right,or the clubs would be empty,thats enough proof for me IMO.
    Yes the clubs get thier fair share off assholes,but they would be assholes at Hooters or TGI fridays as well.

    People keep talking about men in the clubs on power trips and it kills me!!!
    (not addressing any certain person,but entertainers as a whole)
    They paid to get in to see YOU!You own them!
    They have to pay just to have your attention!
    If you let them slow your roll or fuck with your hustle,YOU are the putz who GIVES them your submission,they didnt take shit,you gave it away for free.
    This world revolves around YOU!
    Inside those walls,its your world ladies,men are guest,even us support staff mancubs.
    Freekin act like it and stop your whinning.
    Most of you are alpha female,those that are not,dont last.

    When you figure out who is REALLY in charge,you will make money.
    Forget it for a moment,and you wont.

    A man cant be an asshole or controlling in ANY way inside this world unless that power is given to him.The only one who can give it to him is you.
    MnM, perfect!

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    When you figure out who is REALLY in charge,you will make money.
    Forget it for a moment,and you wont.
    giving credit where credit is due-- BGMnM is correct about that part.

    Lots of men come in and try to put themselves in the driver's seat but it is up to the dancer herself to let him drive or not.

    But I don't think this thread is so much about what to do with these types but more so as to why they are they way they are to begin with-- my opinion as I stated earlier is men who hate dancers do so because of resentment and rejection issues -- women who hate dancers do so becuase of fear and jealousy, mostly fear.

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Jenny--basically, the dating pool opportunities. Not the business opportunity of being a stripper (which I agree is open to almost anyone with the dedication/courage/commitment to get their body and mind in shape to do it, as Lilith outlines in her post). But I'm not going to argue over whether the average stripper is prettier than the average woman--I've been to a lot of strip clubs, and if the typical day or night shift from a strip club went walking through an airport in street clothes, people would wonder what was going on. That's all I'm saying--feel free to disagree. I'm not going to belabor the point.

    And I've had several dancers (who were generally pretty, some of them quite pretty) make fun of guys who asked them out, not because it was in the club and they would never date someone from the club but because they felt like the guy should have known that someone like them would never date someone like him. That has left a bad taste in my mouth and is the one thing I'd say I have experienced with several strippers that I don't like. That's my honest answer to the question you posed.

    Lilith--suit yourself. I'm not going to waste thread space in an interesting thread picking nits.

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    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGreenMnM
    Yes the clubs get thier fair share off assholes,but they would be assholes at Hooters or TGI fridays as well.
    BigGreen has a good point to add to the topic. I've stated it before and it bears repeating:

    Some men have integrity. Some men have it and temporarily lose sight of it. Some men never had it to begin with.


    Inside those walls,its your world ladies,men are guest,even us support staff mancubs.
    Freekin act like it and stop your whinning.
    You're wearing next to nothing and some fucktard is gleefully insulting your looks, your intellect, your personality and your gender. Everyone has a breaking point at which this bothers them just a little. Walk a mile in these stillettos before you posture on how high that breaking point should be.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    An aspect not addressed is that strippers quintessentially personify how many men feel about the mercenary motivations of women in general. This of course, isn't about strippers as much as it is men who are either unwilling or incapable of knowing and controlling if and when they're being exploited financially by women and are frustrated or angry about their own lack of self-worth and their inability to obtain or conduct satisfactory relationships with women. TL is right about rejection playing a signifcant role in this; many of us are routinely rejected by women in the outside world and strip clubs compound that rejection if the customer isn't operating in the Twilight Zone reality of the SC. DJoser's post on his GF's RIL is a classic example of this type of guy--and he should never, ever set foot in an SC. It's sad and pathetic and not in a comedic fashion.

    And while I can't say I blame those men--I mean, really; fat, balding and toothless slobbering PLs like myself intrinsicly know we won't ever possess stripper-quality women--these are the type of men that have no business being inside an SC, primarily because they utterly lack realistic expectations within the wholly unrealistic environment of the SC.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  24. #24
    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    Jenny--basically, the dating pool opportunities. Not the business opportunity of being a stripper (which I agree is open to almost anyone with the dedication/courage/commitment to get their body and mind in shape to do it, as Lilith outlines in her post). But I'm not going to argue over whether the average stripper is prettier than the average woman--I've been to a lot of strip clubs, and if the typical day or night shift from a strip club went walking through an airport in street clothes, people would wonder what was going on. That's all I'm saying--feel free to disagree. I'm not going to belabor the point.
    I think you're right on that score. Yes, it wouldn't have stopped traffic if those women pre-dancing hit the mall and yes, individually I doubt a stripper in streetwear attracts an undue level of attention. But also, I do think you are correct that if, say, the night shift roster at my club walked in a group through the airport in street clothes, people would stop and stare. This is definitely belaboring the point though, so I'll shut up now.

    And I've had several dancers (who were generally pretty, some of them quite pretty) make fun of guys who asked them out, not because it was in the club and they would never date someone from the club but because they felt like the guy should have known that someone like them would never date someone like him. That has left a bad taste in my mouth and is the one thing I'd say I have experienced with several strippers that I don't like. That's my honest answer to the question you posed.
    That is crass. Any pretty girl, stripper or no, is not excused from common decency by fact of their looks. Shame on them.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

  25. #25
    Featured Member Lilith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why do you think that men hate stripper?

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer
    I mean, really; fat, balding and toothless slobbering PLs like myself intrinsicly know we won't ever possess stripper-quality women--
    I'll have you know that, if I were single, Afx, Lestat, Sporty and yourself would be high on my Oh-So-Dateable list. You guys need to quit downplaying the sexiness of personality. Looks are fleeting but a personality is forever.

    But not if you slobber. Ew.
    He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

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