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Thread: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    (snip)"Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

    The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

    When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.

    "There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."(snip)

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Wow thats kind of messed up. political pimps. Prostitution should be a womans/mans choice, they shouldnt have to be forced into it.

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    I dont think they are forcing females to do anything.

    They are making prostitution and brothels legal.

    You dont have to be a hooker to get bennifits,but you do gotta be something.

    All they are doing is saying prostituetion is "something".

    If you want to work somewhere else,fine.
    If you want gov bennifits,you will do something.
    Im ok with this.

    The Burgermeister is not a pimp.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    I dont think they are forcing females to do anything.

    They are making prostitution and brothels legal.

    You dont have to be a hooker to get bennifits,but you do gotta be something.

    All they are doing is saying prostituetion is "something".

    Yup, by declaring prostition to be legal and 'officially' abolishing any social stigma formerly attached to the profession, sex workers in Germany have been granted total equality at last. However, under the circumstances of German unemployment benefits, because sex work is now considered totally equal with any other type of work, this translates into a scenario where a German girl who has been laid off from an IT job or manufacturing job or any other sort of 'mainstream' job may now be REQUIRED to accept an available job as a prostitute or face the termination of her unemployment benefit checks if she refuses an available job opening (in the totally equal no stigma attached sex industry) and chooses instead to continue to wait for a 'mainstream' job to open up.

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    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Glad I don't live in Germany.
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie
    (in the totally equal no stigma attached sex industry) and chooses instead to continue to wait for a 'mainstream' job to open up.
    lol still,im ok with this.

    How many 7-11 jobs or manual labor jobs would be filled by people who were "waiting"for the job they wanted to open up(at the peoples expense),and not just a job opening.

    I guess they see how easy it is to fuck the system here in America and they are trying to avoid our pitfalls.

    Wouldnt it be funny if they added escorts and strippers to the list here in America?
    Bet those 7-11 jobs would start to look real dam good to people sitting on thier asses collecting unemployment because they didnt want to do a job that was beneath them.
    freekin perfect,i would vote for this here in the states.

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Why exactly is the "liberal" tag being applied here?

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    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head
    Why exactly is the "liberal" tag being applied here?
    Good question.

    I see alot of complaints about conservative bashing here and yet liberal bashing goes on too, usualy with nothing said.

    It would seem that it is taboo to make a general type comment about one group yet perfectly acceptable to make similar comments about the other side.

    Why is that anyway ?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    the "liberal" tag obviously stems from liberal principles which advocate the idea that sex work should not be stigmatized by any one group's religious/moral judgements regarding the practice of providing sex for money, that such religious/moral judgements of one group should not be inflicted by law on everyone, and the liberal principles which advocate the idea that victimless 'crimes' should not be considered crimes in the first place but left to the free choice of citizens - positions which are diametrically opposed to conservative principles. There's no liberal bashing going on here, merely a statement of published liberal policies.

    You can look to San Francisco California, where the mayor and DA are on record as stating their policy that police resources will not be wasted investigating and prosecuting acts of prostitution which occur inside strip clubs, as America's most liberal example. Germany's and Holland's liberal socialist governments merely took the position one step further and actually legalized and regulated prostitution as a business - a position already advocated by some Californians BTW.

    From a legal standpoint, any state could in fact require that 100% legal stripper job openings be added to the roster at state unemployment offices. Probably the reason this has not been done is that in most states the politicians fear that citizens would be up in arms once they heard that young girls were being forced by the state to become strippers or lose their unemployment checks. However, with California's adult entertainment advocacy groups, liberal local politicians, and generally complacent citizens, with a 35 billion dollar state budget deficit such a future development is not out of the question.
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-02-2005 at 09:15 AM.

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    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark W.
    I see alot of complaints about conservative bashing here and yet liberal bashing goes on too, usualy with nothing said.

    It would seem that it is taboo to make a general type comment about one group yet perfectly acceptable to make similar comments about the other side.

    Why is that anyway ?
    You can substitute the word "liberal" for "faggot" or "queer" and, that's pretty much the sentiment behind the ad nauseum repetition of the term in thread titles and thread content here here. "Liberal" is a dirty word.

    This isn't a law to do with dancing, nor does it have anything to do with the United States. That such a proposal would be considered in California is...laughable. Stant, will you step in here? I'll let you take this one. First all us Californians are fleeing to Reno; now we're going to make welfare moms dance at the Market Street Cinema to pay off our defecit.

    I don't see what's so 'liberal' about this measure anyway. Forcing women into prostitution to get them off unemployment smacks of draconian conservatism to me. But of course, in a perfect conservative world, there would be no such thing as social welfare, and the less fortunate would have all their needs met by charitable contributions from so-called Compassionate Conservatives and religious institutions
    Last edited by Adina; 02-02-2005 at 06:54 PM. Reason: spelling mistake!

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Maybe I'm missing something Melonie, isn't that story about welfare reform? Do you really think that 'liberals' had anything to do with that being passed in the first place?

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Quote Originally Posted by Adina
    I don't see what's so 'liberal' about this measure anyway. Forcing women into prostitution to get them off unemployment
    I dont see where anyone is being forced into anything????

    Correct me if im wrong.

    I see the government saying there are more options for people to choose from.

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    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Quote Originally Posted by Adina
    You can substite the word "liberal" for "faggot" or "queer" and, that's pretty the sentiment behind the ad nauseum repetition of the term in thread titles and thread content here. "Liberal" is a dirty word.

    This isn't a law to do with dancing, nor does it have anything to do with the United States. That such a proposal would be considered in California is...laughable.
    Well said and I am in agreement with you Adina

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    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    I had my doubts about this story from the beginning, but now, this just in:

    http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp

    So, um...what now?

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    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    I guess that concludes this episode of liberal bashing .

    LMFAO !

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    So, um...what now?
    The fact that Snopes.com is 'skeptical' provides no factual refutal of the report. Snopes acknowledging another related German language story dealing with the same issues, and Snopes actually acknowledging the 'theoretical' possibility that an unemployed German girl who refuses to work as a (legal) prostitute could be subject to termination of her unemployment benefits only supports the possibility that there is at least some truth behind this issue.

    Also from Snopes "It has struck a chord in many readers as an example of liberal morality and bureaucracy run amok"

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    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    I can read. I can also selectively cut and paste sentences out of their original context, and boldface or italicize words to alter the emphasis to suit myself. But I'd rather cut and paste the article in its entirety:

    Origins: A news story about a 25-year-old German woman who faced cuts to her unemployment benefits for turning down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel was carried by a variety of English-language news sources in January 2005. It has struck a chord in many readers as an example of liberal morality and bureaucracy run amok: if prostitution is legalized (as it was in Germany back in 2002), this story suggests, then society has conferred its approval upon that trade, and prostitution can therefore be proffered to (and even foisted upon) women as a valid choice of employment.

    We remain skeptical about the literal truth of the version reported in the English press, however, because the issue seems to have received scant attention in the German press (at least that we can find). Most German-language sources on this topic point to an 18 December 2004 article from the Berlin newspaper Tageszeitung, which (as far as our rusty command of German allows us to discern) does not report that women in Germany must accept employment in brothels or face cuts in their unemployment benefits. The article merely presents that concept as a technical possibility under current law — it does not cite any actual cases of women losing their benefits over this issue, and it quotes representatives from employment agencies as saying that while it might be legally permissible to reduce unemployment benefits to women who have declined to accept employment as prostitutes, they (the agencies) would not actually do that. The thrust of the article seems to be that there is a loophole in the law which has not yet exploited and should be closed.

    We suspect this is another case where, like a game of "telephone," a story has been garbled as it has passed from one news source to the next, and somewhere in the rewriting and translating process what was originally discussed as a mere hypothetical possibility has now been reported as a factual occurrence.

    Last updated: 31 January 2005

  18. #18
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    One can find heartless totalitanariasm in both liberal and conservative mindsets. I didn't view it, even if true, as either one, at least in its applicability to what we in the U.S. have come to call, rightly or wrongly, as "liberal" and "conservative."

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Uh, that law would be considered conservative. Sort of like "welfare to work" laws in the states. What they're saying is, if you can work, you'd better do SOMETHING, even if it's sex work. Maybe the liberalization of sex laws themselves is liberal, but this law is all about getting people off the public dole...and that's a conservative issue all the way.

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    As I hear it Germany has some serious problems going on. Highest unemployment since WWII and lower and lower voter turn out with increased activity by neo-ist's.

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    Default Re: For those who complain of 'conservative' dancing laws ... here's a new liberal law

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    As I hear it Germany has some serious problems going on. Highest unemployment since WWII and lower and lower voter turn out with increased activity by neo-ist's.
    Absolutely true, with a 5 million official German unemployed number being released last week in a country with an 85 million population (and a 'real' unemployed number speculated at 7.5 million). This stat only tends to lend more credibility to the report. At any rate, it's no secret that Germany's 35 hour work week, 6 weeks of paid vacation, high taxes, expensive regulations, the resulting failing/failed 'smokestack industries', and rising number of 'unassimilated' foreign immigrants (mostly Turks and mostly located in the Cologne area - yes I have German friends who discuss such issues) consuming an ever increasing amount of gov't services, is a formula for eventual financial and political disaster.

    As to the rise of the "neo's", this is certainly being driven by younger Germans seeing their taxes rising, seeing their future prospects declining, and seeing the rising number of 'unassimilated' foreign immigrants somewhat like 'leeches' sucking the life blood from the German economy and hard working Germans. While the 'official' political participation of the 'neos' in German/european politics is still minor (as it is limited by specific German laws as well as international censure primarily from Israelis), 'unofficial' support for 'neo' position/actions among the general German population is rising as quickly as the German economy is declining. Similar increases in 'neo' support are also quietly occurring in Holland, Belgium, France and other european countries - however Holland has NOT been quiet after the recent murder of Theo van Goch despite efforts by 'mainstream' media to minimize the after-effects of that incident by limiting news coverage -



    I can also selectively cut and paste sentences out of their original context, and boldface or italicize words to alter the emphasis to suit myself. But I'd rather cut and paste the article in its entirety:
    PS Adina during your copy and paste of the "entire' Snopes article, you appear to have left out the Snopes introduction which included their "liberal morality and bureaucracy run amok" line. I'm sure this was of course an inadvertent oversight on your part rather than a deliberate attempt to omit a 'negative' liberal reference and thus attempt to de-legitimize my accurate Snopes quotation.

    Also, while it has not yet become an issue on this BBS, reproducing an entire article does carry copyright implications, whereas posting excerpts or links is considered to be 'fair use'. This is the reason that I often post 'snips' and quotes, with a link to the entire article also posted somewhere.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-06-2005 at 08:36 PM.

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