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Thread: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    As some know, my husband and I filed our taxes through H&R Block on Sunday. He went in to pick up the refund check on Tuesday, only to find that they didn't have it. They gave him a number to call, saying that there would be an explanation there. He called, and the recording stated that our refund was being off-set by the IRS for past-due child support.

    Now, a history here, is that he was married, and "had" a child with his ex-wife. There was a ton of infidelity on her part, two occasions involving this two then-best friends (on separate occasion at least, I hope). There has always been a question of the child's paternity, and it's taken quite a while for my husband to get to the point of wanting a DNA test done to rule out that he is the child's biological father. Believe me, I've yelled at him for years, and told him that a paternity test should have been done while the child was still an infant. He made the decision after our daughter was born. He doesn't want to take anything from her, to give to a child that is not biologically his.

    While he was out of work for 6 months, he filed a relief from his obligation to pay child support, and he also requested a DNA test for paternity. The court case was scheduled to be heard on the same day that the blizzard here in RI caused the Governor to declare a state-of-emergency. That meant that all courts were shut-down. As of yet, he has no received notice of a rescheduling for hearing the case.

    When I got our mail yesterday, we had gotten a letter from the State of RI (Tax Division), saying that we would be receiving nothing, because our whole RI refund was being off-set and sent to his ex-wife for child support owed.

    My question is, How can they take OUR taxes for a debt that he owes? Also, if paternity has not been established, can they rightfully take it? While it's true that he's taken responsibility for the child since he was born (he is now 8 years old), it's because he was the only one who stuck around for them. All of her other <ahem> partners left.

    I also did a ton of research about this yesterday. I found that I could file an "Injured Spouse" claim, which would entitle me to be allocated up to half (or more) of the refunds (both State and Federal). I've downloaded and filled out form #8379 (Injured Spouse Claim and Allocation), and will be sending it to both State and Federal today.

    Another thing I want to add is that after deductions were totaled, because my husband and I had made so little during the year, we zeroed out, which is why we received such a hefty refund, but most of that was attributed to our daughter, and the Earned Income Credit. Can they rightfully take that when that's the reason? Can they take from our daughter to give to a child that is probably 100% not my husband's?

    We do intend to fight this, especially in the courts with the paternity, but my question is, if there's a pending case regarding this, can they still legally take the refunds from us?

    Oh, and this is in no way delaying or preventing us from moving to TN, but I would just like a heads-up on what to expect.

    Thanks for any advice you can give us.

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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    This is what I would do: I would get on the horn with the irs, speak to a higher up who knows what they are talking about, or go back to where you had your taxes done, and be prepared to sit there a while while you guys figure this out. I dont see how they could take every bit of the $ you guys got. If you filed joint, that might be where they caught you there and were able to take some $, but I dont see how they can take it ALL. I would also get on the horn with someone, take it to the police or something because I know SOMEONE can do something about it, Im just not sure who, and get a DNA test ASAP. Like yesterday you need to do this, because even after the test hopefully proves this child is not his, the irs will take their sweet time about getting your cash to you. It sucks, I know, but thats the way they are, quick to get their cash but slow getting you yours. But yea, I would take my ass right back to h & r block to see what they say also, and call the irs. I hope you get out of this mess with your refund check in your pocket!

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Thanks very much, RD. I'm extremely pissed off about this, and the Hubby has been my personal punching bag for the past few days. I've told him to get a test done for years, and it finally had to come to this before he actually said "Yeah, I'll get one now". Damn straight he will. I've even brought it to the point where I told him I'll leave him if this doesn't get sorted out.

    I'm making him call the IRS, and the RI Child Support Enforcement, and the courts today. I've told him that he needs to get the test done YESTERDAY, and not to take "No" for an answer. This kid is 8 years old, and he's not going to be paying for him for another 10 years if he's not his. If that doesn't work, I'm calling them, and they seriously don't want that. Like I said, that refund wouldn't even be if it wasn't for our child. So I don't see any logical reason why they could take from her to give to a child that everyone is certain isn't his. I know that saying it is one thing, but he needs to get it on record, so we'll be done with it forever, and his ex will have to either find the kid's biological father, or she'll just have to find another meal ticket.

    In the past, they've even gone so far as to attach his wages for the weekly child support. It wasn't much ($65 a week), but still, it's a matter of basically paying for no good reason. And if they're to do that now, it's personally fucking with my child. I won't have that.

    Anyway, I'm mailing off the "Injured Spouse" form, with a copy of our return and W-2 forms. Hopefully if he can't stop the off-set, we can at least get half of it, although because of our daughter, we're entitled to much more of that.

    Thanks again for the input, please keep it coming. I'll also welcome any information regarding paternity testing, too, although I know that's off-topic, but you can also PM me advice about that.

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    God/dess Emily's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    To be fair, you don't know that the child is not his, so you aren't entitled to that money. If the child is his, then he should be paying back child support. Of course this isn't fair to YOU, but there is a child out there besides yours (I know, tough to care about that one when you are scrambling to make ends meet for yours), but on paper, it's his too.

    Either way, I'm glad that the system is working for the guys who aren't paying their child support

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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    I don't understand how they could get into your refund. Maybe it has to do with state laws or something, because ever since my father got married all agencies have been unable to dock his tax returns to pay back child support (it's like way up in the five figures now).

    Rhiannon, I hope you find an end to this QUICK!!!



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    Senior Member Vixie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Some thing similar happened to be Rhia. Only it was Washington Mutual Bank not the IRS. I had just received a small settlement of $600 and it was deposited directly into my account. I thought cool, now I can buy the baby's crib since I'll be do in March. Come to find out the bank paid themselves on an account that my exhusband had. I was only the co-signer and since I was still banking with him they paid the money and closed the account. Apparently I didn't know that my ex was still trying to use that account and had over $1800 in overdraft fees. I had mentioned to them that I didn't open the account and never in the time that we were married I had access to the account. That didn't matter. They took my $600 and then when my paycheck was deposited they took the other $900 and then when I got paid again they took another $300. I was left three payperiods with very little money and lots of struggle. I called everyone I could think of about this and was mad as hell but it still didn't put the money back in my account. I closed my account and still haven't decided where to open a new one. I'm scared that anywhere I go there will be a deduction made for something I didn't have anything to do with. Now, I'm broke and I have no baby crib.

    I feel your pain...

    Good Luck,

    ViXie
    www.Sexxxy-Me.com

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    Member Jon_CPA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question


    The IRS hands are actually tied on this one. The IRS is required to withhold any refund due when a state agency for collection of child support notifies them of a past due amount on the child support. No court has the jursidiction to prevent the IRS from withholding the refund.

    Since the child support is a court order, you have to get an injunction against it or have it overturned, otherwise your only form of relief is to file for the injured spouse. Consult with your attorney in regards to this matter. Untill the you get the court order overturned, my advice is to unfortunately keep paying the child support. However, the IRS cannot withhold a refund if a refund does not actually exsist. In the future plan on owing the Feds a little something on April 15th and send them a check.


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    Member Jon_CPA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Vixie
    Some thing similar happened to be Rhia. Only it was Washington Mutual Bank not the IRS. I had just received a small settlement of $600 and it was deposited directly into my account. I thought cool, now I can buy the baby's crib since I'll be do in March. Come to find out the bank paid themselves on an account that my exhusband had. I was only the co-signer and since I was still banking with him they paid the money and closed the account. Apparently I didn't know that my ex was still trying to use that account and had over $1800 in overdraft fees. I had mentioned to them that I didn't open the account and never in the time that we were married I had access to the account. That didn't matter. They took my $600 and then when my paycheck was deposited they took the other $900 and then when I got paid again they took another $300. I was left three payperiods with very little money and lots of struggle. I called everyone I could think of about this and was mad as hell but it still didn't put the money back in my account. I closed my account and still haven't decided where to open a new one. I'm scared that anywhere I go there will be a deduction made for something I didn't have anything to do with. Now, I'm broke and I have no baby crib.

    I feel your pain...

    Good Luck,

    ViXie
    www.Sexxxy-Me.com
    ViXie,

    1) Contact the California Bar Association. Most State Bar Associations require their members to perform a certain amount of pro-bono work per year. They should be able to put you intouch with an attorney in your area.

    2) Go to the banks website and find out the name of the bank's Vice President of public relations or marketing. Write and send a letter directly to them describing the events and your situation. Especially about being broke, cribless, and due in March, this is that persons worst nightmare!!

    3) If you get no response from the bank, goto the newspapers, televsion stations and radio stations. Your situation is a comsumer advocates wet dream!! Goto www.clarkhoward.com, he is a nationally syndicated consumer advocate talk show host.

    Remember the bank wants to get back the $1,800 your ex cost them, but they don't want it if it will cost them $1 million worth of bad plubicity.

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Thanks for the input everyone..

    An update: The Hubby called the courts today and the hearing has been rescheduled (due to the Blizzard) for February 28th. At that time, a paternity test will be ordered. The taxes are being held until paternity is either ruled out or established. This means that neither party can touch it until it's decided who it goes to.

    The person that he talked to, however, said that I can go ahead and file the Injured Spouse claim in the meantime, because this debt and the responsibility is not mine in any way, shape, or form. The only responsibility I have is to my children alone. He said that I can also file a motion to take the full amount of the tax return, being that the only thing that we are getting back is the Child Tax Credit, and the Earned Income Credit for our daughter. I'm entitled to it, and so is my daughter, no one else. Those were his words, not mine. There is maybe a .00001 chance (if even that much) that the child in question is my husband's. That's pretty common knowledge too, among his family, and even hers. My Mother-In-law is going with my husband to court. We figured that it's better than just a written & signed statement from her, stating that his ex told her when she was asked, that she did know who the father was.

    The only paper stating that he's the father is the birth certificate, which she put my husband's name on because he was there. They were also married by this time, they married while she was pregnant. Stupid move on his part, I know, being that all of the cheating began (and continued after) the wedding. The DNA test is the only document that will be definite proof that he's not the father, and he'll be clear of this once and for all.

    So yes, it's a good thing that the system works for child support enforcement, but unfortunately, it also works against some men. Women can go ahead and just name any guy as the father of their child, and they can either pay until the child's 18, or the man can do something about it. His ex obviously didn't take into account that my husband would fight it, even though it's taken him years to be pushed to it.

    Anyhoo.. I'll update you all when we know more. Thanks again

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    I hope you will also evaluate how much you with hold for taxes in the future. I know it is easy for people to over withhold and look forward to that tax return, but I always try to make sure I owe a little. This will put the money in your hands and not leave a windfall for someone else to go after.

    I hope it all works out for you...


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    Senior Member Vixie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Thanks Jon_CPA, that's exactly what I will do...I just can't believe their fees and how they have the liberty to take it from your account without any regrets or permission!!!!
    I'll have to write them a letter.

    Thanks again!

    ViXie
    www.Sexxxy-Me.com

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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Rhia,
    I was literally going to start my reply with the identical words Jon used.
    Until released from the obligation by a judge based on a paternity test the prior finding of owning child support is presumed valid. In some states a male-official-parent can be ruled to owe child support even if paternity is disproven by DNA evidence. A person married to a spouse is presumed to be the father unless proven otherwise, even if she is a slimebag.

    This ability to grab refunds of "deadbeat dads" has been on the books for a long time. I believe they can do it for student loans too. For 2005 figure your withholding amounts carefully and try to have to pay a token amount by 4/15/06--$20 bucks or so. About August do a recalculation and adjust witholding, but make sure you EITHER have withheld more than you owed in 2004, or have them owe you a few bucks--and I mean a few( less than $100)
    .
    John_CPA has covered these "safe-harbor" rules in another thread recently. Read it and follow his explanation.

    Folks, it is not a great idea to overwithold and use your taxes as a savings account. You are loaning uncle sam money for no interest. If you get $2000 back you are overpaying and loosing (throwing away) about $30 interest. If you want to save, set up a savings account and be discpilined and do not tap into it unless you are really desperate.

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    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    I'd hate to be the bearer of bad news, however, just because your husband is not the child's biological father, that doesn't mean that the judge will not hold him responsible for child support to this child. There have been a LOT of men who, through DNA testing, have proven that they were taking care of children for 10+ years because they didn't realize that the wifey was bed-hopping. There was a huge story about it in Texas. (The only way the guy found out the 2 younger kids weren't his was because one of them had cystic fibrosis). Since your husband has waited SOOO long to get a test done (over 8 years)...the judge may just decide to make your husband continue to care for the child...unless someone can find the child's real father and make him pay the support...

    Good luck!

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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Thanks Monty & Scorpio.. Yeah, I'm still kicking him for waiting so long to get the test done. He's paying for it now. Apparently, he said that the person he talked to (I'm assuming it was either the court or her attorney, he spoke to them both), said that if paternity is ruled out, he'll no longer be obligated to the child in any way. Of course, it all matters what the judge decides. On the bright side, we found out that the judge who is hearing the case is the same one that presided over their divorce. Her infidelity and some of his doubts were documented back then, but he also didn't contest paternity. So, that may work against him.

    At this point, I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I've mailed in the Injured Spouse forms, as I was instructed to by the courts. So, they'll (the IRS) will decide how much I am allotted from the returns, and that will be deducted off of the total amount, and given to me. Of course, it will take 6-8 weeks to receive my share, but I'm patient enough.

    I'll keep you all updated. Court's on the 28th. That's when they'll order the test, and with a little luck, they'll have the results soon after.

    Thanks again, and if anyone has any other advice, feel free to add it.

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    Default Re: Income Tax ~ Offset! Question

    Thanks Jon_CPA, that's exactly what I will do...I just can't believe their fees and how they have the liberty to take it from your account without any regrets or permission!!!!
    The IRS has full authority to direct any bank or financial institution to freeze the accounts and seize the assets of any taxpayer that the IRS 'thinks' owes them large amounts of money. In fairness this was not the bank's doing, the bank was just following IRS orders.

    But yes the IRS authority to freeze accounts and seize assets is something that should be kept in mind by anyone attempting to 'fly below the radar' in regard to taxes. If the IRS is given a reason to go snooping, or even if the IRS selects a particular person at random to investigate (this typically happens to 1.5% of taxpayers every year), and if the IRS then discovers major question marks about that person's finances (i.e. little or no income reported on tax returns yet big cash flows through bank accounts and credit cards, big ticket purchases like an expensive car etc.) the IRS can indeed decide that the person being investigated probably had lots of undeclared income from the past 3 years and therefore owes the IRS a LOT of money in back taxes.

    This can result in the IRS ordering banks to freeze the entire balance of bank and investment accounts etc. The IRS can also sieze any assets i.e. impound the expensive car. If this happens it can effectively leave the person being investigated temporarily 'penniless', which is not the least bit helpful when it comes to paying attorney and accounting fees for that person to attempt to prepare a challenge to the IRS. This is actually a strategy from the IRS 'playbook', because a person placed in such a position who does not have say $10,000 from another non-frozen source to retain an attorney and accountant is MUCH more likely to agree to an IRS settlement agreement - which saves the IRS the trouble and costs of going preparing a detailed case and taking the person to court.

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