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Thread: Don't worry about approching every customer

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    I understand that the DW class taught some prioritizing, but customers don't always fit the parameters. He did not teach to approach one profiled customer and then go back to the dressing room or sit at the bar. A LOT of dancers nowadays are merely sacheting around the floor, rather than aggressively trying to sell as many dances as possible to as many guys as possible. DW spends a LOT of time talking about dancers who complain that they are not making any money, yet they won't get off their asses and approach as many customers as possible, working HARD to make dance sales.

    He teaches that being a dancer or stripper is not about performing on stage, except for in certain clubs and situations. It's about being a salesperson.

    Many new dancers don't seem to understand that we are merely pretty faces or sex objects colloquially speaking, and that we are merely in a club to sell dances. We are selling our company to men for a fee. The dance is a means for us to be paid.

    Girls used to not be afraid to approach customers about 10 years ago.

    I just don't understand why girls act like the customers bite.

    Who is going to make the most money in this scenario?

    Girl A and Girl B both are working 7 hour shifts together. During prime time there are 50 customers on the floor, 1/2 which are over age 40. 15 dancers are working this night.

    Girl A stays on the floor during all of prime time except for taking two 5-7 minute breaks. She approaches every guy who is available using all the taught sales techniques. She is not a "wanna dance" girl and spends a song or two selling each guy. If he won't buy she goes to the next one and repeats this appraoch all night except for when she is dancing for guys she has sold.

    Girl A sells 13 guys 2 dances each, 1 guy 4 dances, and one guy 10 dances for a total of 40 dances. She made $50 on stage.

    After paying house fees and tip outs she walks with $750.

    Girl B, is a sachet around the floor girl. She gets off stage and goes into the dressing room for 15-20 minutes. She changed outfits 4-5 times during the shift. She approaches a couple guys and doesn't spend the time trying to talk them into buying. There are 12 more guys on the floor that no dancers are sitting with but rather than approach them she goes to the bar and hangs out.

    Girl B tells her co workers that Girl A is a bitch. That she must be sucking dick to get so many dances. At the end of the night Girl B has sold 12 dances to 5 guys and made $25 on stage,and goes home with $190. If Girl B had made the same effort as girl A her earnings could have been substantially higher too, couldn't they?

    Girl B always says she is going to work 5 days this week and never makes it in more than 2.

    There are a LOT of Girl B's in this business, that want the money to come to them instead of going after the money. These girls will never be successful in any business because they are not go getters.

    As far as playing hard to get and making an interested customer wait on you, I wouldn't advise that nowadays in this competitve club environment. Another girl might swoop over to the table and snatch the guy up.

    You definately don't want to use that approach in Vegas or any other place where the girls outnumber the guys.
    Last edited by Tina; 02-08-2005 at 06:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    kcymchoon, that was a great bit of advice from the man's point of view, however, it is quite different from the dancer's perspective. In many ways, this job is a guessing game. I personally think that if a man is interested in you he should say something. If you come over and find out there is no chemistry, then you are both free to move on. However, I can't tell you how many times guys will lead you on and let you sit there with no intention of spending a single dollar even if you ARE everything he ever dreamed a woman could be. I am fine with approaching people, but definately appreciate a man who is intrigued enough to let me know he's interested. It takes a lot of pressure off of both the men and the dancers. Guys are always saying they want to be approached, but then I am constantly hearing customers complain about some dancer who wouldn't get the hint. Make up your minds!!

  3. #28
    Senior Member amber88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    How much is the teleconfrencing DW course? I mean the whole shebang..taxes, memberships..whatever?

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    The fee for the teleconferencing course was around $200, but you could pm Dancer Wealth for his current price.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Tina, I understand the idea isn't to only approach one high-profile customer and then sulk, and I don't know, the impression I got was more like snipering, you find a potential customer, build a lengthy rapport and sell 'em. You spend more time manuevering a guy who can afford an hour in champagne room rather than a minute or two approaching every guy for one or two dances. I don't know about anyone else, but I can't fit every sales technique into a conversation UNDER 2 songs, not counting the guys who like to talk my ear off. Having a drink hustle also decreases this, I spend a lot of my time right now waiting on waitresses and bartenders so I don't get fined for not selling enough. And if you have a technique for getting more dances after the first, other than just asking, I'd love to hear it.

    Amber, the conference was $195 when I took it in April, I didn't have to pay taxes on it [not sure if that was because I was in NY and DW is in Nevada or it isn't subject to sales tax - it is deductible though]. There's a newsletter which is through a separate membership, I forget how much that is. You don't HAVE to buy it with the course, though.
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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    This thread is a perfect example of different sales approches from different personalities. If you read the book Sales Dogs, the author lays it out so it is better to understand why people approch sales differently.

    No single approch is the be all, end all for this (or any) industry. There is no magic right or wrong way to close a sale, as long as the job gets done. I don't consider the 1-10 dance purchase as big money. I think that is in the realm of most strip club goers, and I am very happy to talk to them and close that sale. I am not going to spend 15-20 minutes to convince a guy to buy one dance. I will move on, and if he really wants the dance he will say yes the next time I ask. If he leaves the club without spending his $20, I see it as maximizing my time to keep moving and trying to sell other customers.

    I can't answer Tina's statement about when her guy visited a club I was working at. The club is extremely small, so hardly anyone gets passed by with out even a smile and a hello, unless I had some money making to do. I do get a little lazy on the hustle end of things in Montana because I've been dancing there for so long that I do have a lot of regulars, and make money w/o having to try anymore. But isn't that the point? To work smarter not harder? The "Sniper" approch can net you cash week after week when worked right.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    I understand where you are coming from Paris and I know it gets tiring especially when you have to work 6 nights a week in road clubs.

    I am merely saying that many guys go to strip clubs around the country and hardly get approached, even when a club has tons of dancers working. In two songs if a guy won't buy, then it is time to move on, but just looking at a guy doesn't determine if he will buy dances or not, or how mnay he will buy.

    When I have a few guys in the club that I know I can make money on, I will work them first before testing new waters, but on the same token I let these regular guys know I can't spend all night with them as I have to work the floor too, so I divide up my time.

    But many dancers obviously don't have any regular guys in the club and are not making the effort needed to maximize their dance sales. Those are the girls I am talking about.

    It is easier to observe this if you visit several clubs as a customer and watchthe guys and how the girls are or are not working them. What you will see is mind blowing.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    While I am working, I think of ALL of the guys as a bunch of "scratch tickets" we basicly pay for out of "tip out" as we walk into work." They just walk around wanting to be scratched.. or approached.. or both!! The ones sitting around the stage are $1-$5 winners, The guys walking around or sitting will run from $0- $1,000 or you may just hit the jackpot!$!$ Even though some guys are just looser tickets walking around, don't let that mess with your game! Keep hustling. (or keep scratching as I would put it!) They do like to be scratched right up their back as you approach them. It works everytime!! I dont even think of them as human beings..lol. So they never really get to me the way they used to, plus you will come across more "in control" as you approach them. I hope this CRAZY advice works~ Since I have been going up to every guy I see, I have made over double of what I have made before. 4real.

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  11. #34
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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Ivy 44 that is a cool analogy. I like that.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Ivy44... great analogy! I'm going to use that one tomorrow. Thanx!

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    I hope it works for both of you! Good luck!

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    I think we all tend to sniper a bit. We will all pass a guy up if we find him absolutely too repulsive - too smelly, belligerent, etc. We will pass a guy up if we think there's better potential with another. I definitely like having lots of guys to approach, it makes the odds of getting a winner better. But I'll still pick and choose who I decide to approach and who I decide to leave for someone else. Perhaps I lose some money to another girl, but she's gotta make some cash too I manage to keep busy most of the time so I can afford to pass up a couple here and there. Hell in my fave club I don't have time to go to every possibility, because I can't keep up with all the requests.

    What some of the big-spending guys here are talking about, is usually a slow club where the girls had simply given up on making money for the night. It's hard for even a good hustler to make money in this environment because the majority of girls have created a bad mood that permeates the whole place and often causes spending guys to leave before the 1 or 2 good hustlers had the chance to make their pitch. Or perhaps the 1-2 good saleswomen are too busy and the rest of the girls just make the place look bad.

    Even in my ridiculously busy Phx club, there are girls who will spend way too much time sitting on their asses in the dressing room or at the bar, or just milling around waiting on a guy to beg for a dance. Then at the end of the night they're in the back bitching about what a crappy night it was (or they leave early) while girls like me and a few specific others are counting our money because we kept busy until closing time.

    I think what both Tina and Paris have to say is right. There's just no way in hell we're gonna approach EVERY single guy in the club all the time - even if we could it wouldn't be the most productive and efficient way to make money - but I think Paris' main point is being missed: if you offer the whole enchilada too quick and easy, there's less incentive for a guy to pay for more than a couple dances. This works for not only the big spenders, but the average ones too. Slowing things down a bit (whether it be in your dance style or conversation or leadup to sales pitch) builds a sense of anticipation and many guys will empty their wallets to see what comes next.

    Of course there are always the guys who can't or won't buy more than a couple dances. For these guys you want to expend the minimum effort, or decide whether that effort would be better spent cultivating a bigger payoff. I find the 1-2 dance guys are great for filling in time between the bigger spenders or ensuring I don't leave broke when there don't seem to be any bigger spenders around. This is when Tina's advice to keep going and keep asking pays off. I think she's entirely correct that way too many girls spend way too much time looking for the big payoff when they could be making the money by hitting several smaller payoffs.

    What counts at the end of the night is how much $ you walk out with, whether it came from one guy or 50. We all need to be flexible enough to work both angles in order to really maximize profits.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    What I often see is the primadona or 242 attitude of seeing a customer you think doesnt have money or isnt worth your time and you dont approach them because youre waiting for that guy with the stack of 100's who usually doesnt come in anyway.

    Ive seen girls sit there and ridicule customers for what clothes they had on, or what they look like or assumed they had no money that Ive made money off of. Its how you approach them. Some guys do like to talk and its okay to spend a few extra minutes with them. Some guys will never buy a dance no matter what. Some guys will buy a few dances and a few will buy many. But you cant treat these guys differently. Customers are smarter than we give them credit for. Even the ones that "someone" considers to be a loser, may turn out to have some old money stashed away and is looking for a good time and has some money to burn despite what they do for a living.
    AmyLynne

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Im sorry if you didnt understand my analogy. lol. But hey, if you feel sitting with some guy who makes a high income and will not spend it is NOT a waste of your time, GO FOR IT! But at my work, guys like them are "losers". Instead of wasting my time on guys like them or having to DEPEND on regular customers, I would rather depend on myself and my own strength. My girls and I always walk out happy and clean.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Well, some will surprise you, it's true, but then you also risk wasting time on a person that has the, "I'm just here to enjoy the scene", mentality. It's knowing when to ask for the dance to find out what type of guy you are sitting with.
    Some want a little time to "get to know you" before they get a dance, these guys usually do get a dance, they just don't want to feel like a wallet.
    Then there are the guys that a raring to go, I wish they would just speak their own minds, but they might be shy.
    Then there are the guys that are scoping the scene, won't say no for you to sit down, but they don't want to get a dance becaus they are waiting for someone else. These guys are usually prety good about letting you know that they aren't up for spending on you, i'ts when they talk to you for a while and then when the question of a dance comes up they sheepsihly admit to them and you that they wasted that tiem.
    And last and very least, the ones that waste your time because they think we actually want to talk to them and sit for a while for free. These guys might be good for a drink during down time, but usually not because they are used to dancers thinking they have money so they take full advantage of our time., only to turn us down because they never had any intention of getting a dance from anyone.
    I think it's really all about which guy wants to be treated which way and not to let the ones that don't want you get you down.
    It's the turn downs that tend to mess with our heads.
    That's whyI think the scratch ticket is a great idea because no emotional attachment comes with the let down. So you didn't make the jackpot, well the night is young.
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    I wanted to bump this thread because I thought it was a really good one. I have more of a sniper mentality (my work habits leave a lot to be desired), but I mainly like to see the guys that have been sitting for a while and haven't been aproached. My first day back I made an easy $80 off a guy (he kept asking ME for dancing and tipping well) and I'm pretty sure it was just because I was the only girl that approached him after he had been there for over 45 minutes. I almost sold him VIP (which I'm not very good at selling) but he got a call and had to leave. He was stage tipping, too!! Bizarre. I don't generally judge a guy by his clothes (although an armani suit in a crowd of flannel does stand out), but more his age and presumed interest level.

    this is a good thread, though. thank you guys.
    Last edited by afterhoursmint; 05-19-2005 at 05:21 PM. Reason: emphasis

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    i'm glad you bumped this thread, because it shows an evolution in my own approach to customers. when i first started dancing, i was very shotgun oriented, approached just about everyone. but the last 3-4 months, i have been approaching fewer and fewer customer, but making more money overall (per shift and per hour). essentially i had to shotgun approach to find out the types of guys MOST likely to spend money on me and once i was making consistent money that way, i've sort of half-consciously moved on to getting the MOST money out of those guys. and as a last resort, i am prepared to shotgun as much as possible to go home with a reasonable amount.

    the practical result of all this is that most nights i don't have to deal with the assholes who are just 20$ headaches at best because i'm busy getting my money from 2-4 sniper-targeted customers who are nice to me. and because i am always prepared to shotgun, i am always looking happy to be there, so i get good stage money from those 20$ headaches and a backup source of income if i can't earn enough from my target demographics (or if those types of guys aren't around that shift). it's reached a point where i might actually be able to consistently pull enough money out of my home club to not have to travel to work, and that kind of cheers me up about having made this whole decision to dance naked for a few years.

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  21. #43
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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Quote Originally Posted by amylynnej
    What I often see is the primadona or 242 attitude of seeing a customer you think doesnt have money or isnt worth your time and you dont approach them because youre waiting for that guy with the stack of 100's who usually doesnt come in anyway.


    Some guys will never buy a dance no matter what. Some guys will buy a few dances and a few will buy many. But you cant treat these guys differently.

    AmyLynne, I think it's time that you stop harassing my publicly. I don't know what your problem is, but you need to stop targetting me becuause it's petty and silly, and you are really annoying me. I am, for your informaiton, one of the sweetest and down to earth girls in this business.

    Yes, I think that many sc customers are loosers, and sometimes I get angry and frusterated with my club and my dramas there, but I am really NOT a primadonna. Just a regular nice girl. And if you met me in person you would really be embarassed about all the crap you've posted in my regard here on SW.

    NOW, that being said, I will agree that you are correct in stating that I go after the high rollers with stacks of 100$ bills. Damn, you caught me. But where you are wrong is stating that this man does not usually show up.

    As was clear a while ago when I was posting my blog and earnings, I average 3 hour shifts between $500-700. On most nights I only dance for one or two customers. And I'm happy with my ability to do this.

    I treat customers differently because they treat ME differently. The guy with a dirty shirt and greasy looking hair probabally only has $40 in his pocket, because the last 50 times he came in, that's all he had THEN too!. Why would I waste my time with that guy, when I can sit on someone's $2000 suit and drink Dom in the CL like I did for 3 hours last night ($900 in dances + 400 tip = $1300 THANK YOU VERY MUCH).

    I'm selective because I can be. I descriminate based on economic status. Call me a gold digger if you will. Better yet, call me a STRIPPER!!!!

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    i think amylynne is speaking a little more broadly, in terms of clubs, 242. i mean, the vast majority of clubs don't have a regular base of guys with 'stacks of 100s'. and girls who sniper in most clubs (because we can't all work in the handful of high-end gown clubs that exist) are going to have a bunch of 50$ nights and the occasional 500+ night. that is, if they 'sniper-approach' without having first prescreened likely prospects through several shifts' worth of shotgunning.

    basically, your average dancer should err on the side of shotgunning, at least at first, in most clubs and only sniper when she has identified her primary customer group(s). it's worth noting that even several dancers here who primarily work in gown clubs have posted about sometimes having to shotgun-approach every now and then, even though their environment is tailormade for snipering.

    there were other ways she could have stated that (like my rambling above), but i think her gist was that every dancer should be prepared to shotgun if necessary, because it often is in most clubs and sometimes is in gown clubs. and snipering will cost most non-gownclub dancers money, if used exclusively.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella
    i think amylynne is speaking a little more broadly, in terms of clubs, 242.
    No, I don't think that pointing out my name was meant to be a broad reference to clubs. That makes no sense.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    nono, she was (rather unfortunately) using your name as an example of dancers taking a sniper approach when the club does not support it (the majority of clubs). tina a page or so back had an example of girl a and girl b, with girl b being a 'bad hustler' (sniper, but misapplied). that was a good example of when NOT to sniper. amylynne, in essentially calling you a girl b, was using a bad example to make a larger point that in general most dancers should NOT abandon shotgunning entirely (and that point is a good one). that is what i got out of her post.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    woooow goood stuff! now thats s3x promoting gear. amazing. standing obation.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Subscribe for later reading.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Fun read. In my own experience, shotgunning works best in clubs where most guys have $20-$500 to spend on dances, and sniping works best in room clubs with many customers who have $500 (and much much more) to spend on VIP. But of course you should snipe in the first club if you sense a whale in the room, and shotgun in the second if it's a cheap party crowd.

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    Default Re: Don't worry about approching every customer

    Addendum: IME both types of clubs offer $1000 potential provided they bring in the right customers or rely on solid foot traffic.

    I think this is why the debate grew so strong -- posters had probably experienced one type of club more than the other. A few years ago the sniping approach would have fallen on deaf ears for me because there were so few whales to identify at my dive, and similarly room club dancers probably shake their heads when someone says 'approach everyone.' Approaching everyone in a wealthy-area room club is plain ineffecient when you need to filter out low spenders and find a whale to keep you afloat with the $$$$'s.

    Either way, wealthier room-orientated clientele is such a different ballgame than the guys who want to part with the $100 in his pocket as soon as he hears the right 'Wanna dance?' phrase.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by lol1337a; 01-19-2015 at 05:19 AM. Reason: why does grammar matter? ugh.

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