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Thread: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Remember a few months ago Katrine started a thread about too many guys being on the site? It seems that there are more guys now than ever, and they've become exponentially more annoying and condescending.

    Dancers, would you sit with a guy in a club, for hours and hours on end bullshitting with him if he wasn't compensating you for your time?

    Isn't that kind of what's happening here - bullshitting with guys for hours and hours on end, and not getting paid for it?

    The day all these guys wear a thong and garter, and have a customer try to use their butt cracks as an credit card/ATM swipe machine, then maybe they would be qualified to tell women in the industry how to do their jobs. But until then - why are they all here?

    Don't flame me, I had to say it.

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  3. #2
    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Adina is sooooooo flippin awesome. I love you girl!!!!!!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  4. #3
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Now I'm hesitant to post, but.....

    I think if dancers here think there's too much male intrusion, then remedies should be looked at. The first one, of course, is an appeal to the boys to be considerate. (Yeah, yeah, I know.)

    So I'm on your side there. However, I think the pay-for-time analogy falls short. If I'm talking to a dancer at a party or a bar or a coffeeshop or at a park, I wouldn't expect an attitude of, "You're not paying me for my time. How about it?" This site isn't a strip club.

    With that out of the way, the amount of time that guys are allowed to have here should be the dancers' call, since this is a dancers support board.

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    God/dess velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    it is very, very annoying to wade through the long winded thinly veiled hate/resentment by many guys here.

  6. #5
    Miss George
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    I agree with Adina. Jay, while I know you think the pay-for-time analogy doesn't work, you have to understand - to a dancer, it makes more sense. We bullshit with guys for a living. I've been at parties where I've met guys and been chatting with them and suddenly realized that the conversation felt way too much like work. Point is, if it isn't a friend of mine and the person doesn't immediately grab me as being friend-potential, I get annoyed and don't want to bother with small talk if I'm not getting paid - I'm sure there are other dancers who can relate to this.

    There've been a lot of threads the Stripping forum that I have kind of wished the guys had stayed out of. While some (like you and a few others) have had good things to add, a lot just waste space and irritate other members like me. We come here to look for advice and support from other DANCERS - if we want guys (customers or otherwise) to answer the question, the thread is usually posted in Customer Conversation. Now matter how much time a guy spends in stripclubs or reading Stripperweb, they just don't know what it's like and often can't give appropriate advice.

    Yeah, it's a girls' club - but it's supposed to be.

    I don't mean to imply that all the male members of this forum are losers who don't have anything better to do, or that they're perverts who get their rocks off by reading and posting here, but I just don't understand why a man who doesn't work in the industry would want to be involved here (especially since there is the Blue Site). I'm here because I'm a stripper and it's a community of people who are like me in that respect. If I weren't a stripper, I wouldn't be here - I would find another forum that had something to do with my other interests or career choice.

    An answer a male member posted in the past (don't remember the thread, I'm afraid) said something about having a lot of respect for the women here or he had friends who were dancers, something to that effect. I have a lot of respect for neurologists and an interest in neurology, but I am NOT a neurologist - I would not feel right joining a web group of neurologists (even if I'd had the occasion to visit one in his office a few times or knew one personally).

    This is not to say that I don't appreciate some of the advice and information that male posters have made on this forum. The Dollar Den, in particular, has some great contributions, and of course the men who are employed in the industry tend to know the deal and have pertinent things to say. But overall... Yeah, I think the guys are too intrusive.

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    Veteran Member Sparkell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    i dont see to much of a problem with it...but i have also noticed the growing numbers of males here....


    "If You Harbor Bitterness, Happyness Will Dock Elsewere"

    Men are like bank accounts. Without a lot of money they don't generate a lot of interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland View Post
    All you need is ONE person to have a $1000 night in Vegas.
    Quote Originally Posted by holiday View Post
    Yep. And if you never find him, you can still make $900 while you look .

  8. #7
    kymchoon
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Adina
    ...It seems that there are more guys now than ever, and they've become exponentially more annoying and condescending.
    Like Jay, I am hesitant to post, but...

    I'd actually be interested to know how we are being annoying/condescending (you know, other than a blanket 'you guys suck' statement). Now this may be a function of the way I browse the forums (which results in me only actually reading about 1/4 of the threads, and ignoring the rest) but I see the majority of men on this site honestly attempting to give constructive and useful advice and feedback, which is supportive of the dancers. If you think that we're being inconsiderate, some useful (and constructive) feedback on exactly how you think we're being inconsiderate might be handy

    If someone's behaving in a way you don't like, how do you ever expect that to change unless you try to communicate to them a) what it is and why you don't like it and b) a suggestion on how it could be modified?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adina
    The day all these guys wear a thong and garter, and have a customer try to use their butt cracks as an credit card/ATM swipe machine, then maybe they would be qualified to tell women in the industry how to do their jobs. But until then - why are they all here?
    Well, speaking for myself, I'm here for intelligent and sometimes entertaining conversation - just like people on every internet forum in existance. The reason we're on this specific site is because we have a genuine interest in the industry. A good portion of the guys on this site currently have or do work in the industry, as well.

    As far as telling you how to do your job goes, I can't say that I've seen too much of that. Yes, occasionally we may give feedback about things that work/don't work or are going to be more/less successful at getting us to spend money, from a customer's point of view. Knowing what your target market's motivations and desires are is a key factor in selling anything. The vast majority of men on this site (that I've seen) tend to simply present their point of view, without much exposition about whether it's the 'right' or 'wrong' way to do things. Usually this advice doesn't vary much from advice that other dancers are/have given.
    Last edited by kymchoon; 02-07-2005 at 06:24 PM. Reason: because my question got answered while I was typing...

  9. #8
    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    I do recall the original post, and have had one foot out the door since then. I have respectfully stuck to the areas (FOR THE MOST PART...this one caught my eye.....) that were stated "we" should at that time. That is, Customer Conversation....The Lounge.....and the Picture Post sections.

    I have also maintained that I am here because I have encountered some individuals that I enjoy. While this is "stripperweb" I don't stop to think about that. I don't know what most of you look like, and I don't spend time carousing the "stripping" related posts. I spend my time in the conversational posts.

    Are there other forums on the Web? Yes. I have looked at them. I enjoy this forum. I enjoy these people.

    Note, also, that areas such as the Loung, are not "stripper" related. I have simple non-stripper related conversations with people both in the Chat room and also in postings. Periodically I will respond to posts that specifically say, "Question for the Guys". Granted, there are a few exceptions, but not many...and I do not currently post any "hey you strippers" postings.

    Question 1 - referring to your comment: "I do recall the original post, and have had one foot out the door since then. I have respectfully stuck to the areas that were stated "we" should at that time. That is, Customer Conversation....The Lounge.....and the Picture Post sections.

    I have also maintained that I am here because I have encountered some individuals that I enjoy. While this is "stripperweb" I don't stop to think about that. I don't know what most of you look like, and I don't spend time carousing the "stripping" related posts. I spend my time in the conversational posts.

    Are there other forums on the Web? Yes. I have looked at them. I enjoy this forum. I enjoy these people.

    Referring to your comment: "Isn't that kind of what's happening here - bullshitting with guys for hours and hours on end, and not getting paid for it? "
    You are not "strippers" all the time.
    I am not a customer all the time.

    Now, I understand that this site was originally created for "strippers" to go and investigate and support. But it has evolved from that. It has combined it with a place to simply communicate with other "people" in certain areas of the forum.

    Is that not a good thing? Do you honestly prefer to segregate the ENTIRE forum so that only dancers are permitted on the site? Do you want to form a comaradery that excludes everyone that is not a stripper?

    Another thing I have maintained - when that does happen - when that is what the focused users of this board desires - then I will be gone, and without malice.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
    -Humphrey Bogart

    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

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    God/dess RoseDelight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by kymchoon
    Like Jay, I am hesitant to post, but...

    I'd actually be interested to know how we are being annoying/condescending (you know, other than a blanket 'you guys suck' statement). Now this may be a function of the way I browse the forums (which results in me only actually reading about 1/4 of the threads, and ignoring the rest) but I see the majority of men on this site honestly attempting to give constructive and useful advice and feedback, which is supportive of the dancers. If you think that we're being inconsiderate, some useful (and constructive) feedback on exactly how you think we're being inconsiderate might be handy
    I think there are some great males on this site that offer advice, or insights. It helps the dancers know what the customers want/like since there are various customers on here.

    With that said:

    I do think there is a high number of males on here that do bark up the wrong tree, so to speak. But I swear most of you pull this shit out of your ass, and I wish you let it remain there.


    --Georg Christoph Litchenberg



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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    All right, Rose, et al - where do you want us? And don't say the blue site. That place is just scary. That's like hanging out with a bunch of guys that I already can't stand to be around in a locker room.

    I don't have an issue with staying in certain areas. I can't do that without password restrictions. Members since the time of Part I don't know about it. Can certain areas be password protected? Do you (anyone, everyone) want SW left only to those in the industry?
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
    -Humphrey Bogart

    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

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    God/dess RoseDelight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    You freak, I didn't mean you. I stated "most of".....Not all. I think a lot of you are great, and I hope you remain.

    But some of the perverted ones with the silly questions, or inane opinions about what have you are quite annoying. I don't mind diverse opinions but some are just straight out of left field.

    If a dancer states....."I don't like Tampons! Any help?"....There's always that one idiot that posts...."Why don't you use a diaper?"


    --Georg Christoph Litchenberg



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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    OH.........well hell....I'll shut the Hell up, now. So long as I'm safe.
    "The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
    -Humphrey Bogart

    "Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
    -Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
    "Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
    -His reply

    "If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
    -David Daye

  14. #13
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Here we go again.

    For the most part...I think that THIS section of the board should be for DANCERS (mainly women...but, hey...male dancers are welcome). I think it is extremely annoying to be ranting about something you had happen at work to have a guy say, "Well, at least you were paid..." or "quit complaining...you make more in one night than most people make in 2 weeks."

    I feel that if a guy has a truly constructive point to add to the posts, then by all means add it...but the "get over it" comments, et al are NOT needed nor wanted. This site...ESPECIALLY this section is intended for the dancers. It would be wonderful if the men, would once again, remember that and post accordingly.

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    Veteran Member Sparkell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    MoJo JoJO u are cool and u know it!.....but the stupid comments by some men who prowl through here is lame...


    "If You Harbor Bitterness, Happyness Will Dock Elsewere"

    Men are like bank accounts. Without a lot of money they don't generate a lot of interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by britneyireland View Post
    All you need is ONE person to have a $1000 night in Vegas.
    Quote Originally Posted by holiday View Post
    Yep. And if you never find him, you can still make $900 while you look .

  16. #15
    kymchoon
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseDelight
    I do think there is a high number of males on here that do bark up the wrong tree, so to speak. But I swear most of you pull this shit out of your ass, and I wish you let it remain there.
    I hope I don't fall into this category...if you see me doing it, smack me upside the head, will you?

    Quote Originally Posted by MojoJojo
    All right, Rose, et al - where do you want us? And don't say the blue site. That place is just scary. That's like hanging out with a bunch of guys that I already can't stand to be around in a locker room.

    Can certain areas be password protected? Do you (anyone, everyone) want SW left only to those in the industry?
    Oh, god, yes. Please don't make me go there, I beg of you. They scare me. Password restrictions are an idea, but...how do you verify? The really annoying people will have no problem with either a) lying about working in the industry or b) flat out pretending to be a dancer. I can't see it working...

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    I feel that if a guy has a truly constructive point to add to the posts, then by all means add it...but the "get over it" comments, et al are NOT needed nor wanted. This site...ESPECIALLY this section is intended for the dancers. It would be wonderful if the men, would once again, remember that and post accordingly.
    Seconded and damn straight. I like to think that I make an effort to be helpful and constructive at all times, and if I'm not I want someone to tell me so. Maybe a more liberal use of the banning stick would work?

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Adina
    But until then - why are they all here?
    Another question that deserves pondering, esspecially since this subject of "compensation" was brought up.

    Why would some of these guys (myself included) want to make a donation to this site to help keep it running. I mean, its not as though the information here is going to be of any financial benefit to us. Wouldn't that money better be spent on a night at our favorite club?

    Needless to say we have a lot of folks here (dancers and non dancers alike) with 500+ posts who at least according to their member designations have yet to donate. It would just seem to me to be a bit brazen for someone to complain about the direction the site is going, and not send in a contribution while making that many posts.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Banned All Good Things's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Why I'm here:

    1. To learn. I read at least 200+ posts for every one I post myself. Even then, I only post when I feel that I can offer support, insight, humor or make some kind of meaningful contribution. I've always felt like a guest here, and have tried to act accordingly.

    2. To provide support. Like the dancers who post here, many of the customers are also a cut above. That means we support the dancers. This site is an inspiration in how supportive it is, far better than anything else out there in the industry. (By comparison, SCL looks like the Land of Clueless Hostile Twits.)

    3. To provide information to newbies and the great unwashed. If every dimwitted obnoxious overbearing snot who walked into a SC were required to read this site for six months before being allowed near any club, the number of dancer horror stories would drop dramatically.

    4. Warm fuzzies. I've read stories that have broken my heart. Given advice urgently and worried about the outcome. Shared hope and encouragment via private messages. Had people's views cause me to change my mind. Goofed off in chat. Felt incredibly inspired and proud of the intelligent and beautiful people here.

    If I ever tell a dancer how to do her job, please take me outside between stage sets and shoot me.

  19. #18
    Veteran Member Adina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss George
    I don't mean to imply that all the male members of this forum are losers who don't have anything better to do, or that they're perverts who get their rocks off by reading and posting here
    Well, I am implying that. I mean, not all, but more than half.

    Quote Originally Posted by MojoJojo
    You are not "strippers" all the time.
    I am not a customer all the time.
    This website is called stripperweb.com, is it not? So here, we're in the context of women in the adult industry.

    Quote Originally Posted by kymchoon
    I'd actually be interested to know how we are being annoying/condescending (you know, other than a blanket 'you guys suck' statement).
    Ah, I could cite so many examples. Too many. Some that spring to mind are the recent "Sugardaddy" thread, "Beautiful Black Women - Y is it so hard...," interjections in Body Business, and a slew of weird-ass left field threads all over the place.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    think that THIS section of the board should be for DANCERS (mainly women...but, hey...male dancers are welcome). I think it is extremely annoying to be ranting about something you had happen at work to have a guy say, "Well, at least you were paid..." or "quit complaining...you make more in one night than most people make in 2 weeks."
    Yes! This is EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm talking about. Who hasn't bitched about his job at least once in his life?

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish
    It would just seem to me to be a bit brazen for someone to complain about the direction the site is going, and not send in a contribution while making that many posts.
    Who are you referring to? I've made 500 posts in 3 years, and I'm a supporter. Donations cover both SW and SCJ...so boys, why don't you venture on over to the site that was made just for you? How come you're all over here, and not over there?

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    I'll echo what TOO said, and reiterate from my other post in CC about this topic:

    I'm here because:

    --I like strip clubs
    --I like strippers
    --And despite my being a fat, balding, toothlessly slobbering PL, I sincerely believe that I substantively contribute to the community and discussions here at SW

    With incredibly rare exception, I've been well-behaved here. For example, I once posted an offhand reaction in PP that was of questionable judgement and relatively poor taste and Adina decided that suitable pennance would be if I were forced to sub for her, reading from Mother Jones. Talk about pain.

    Other than that incident, I've not managed to make much of a nussiance of myself. And I've met a good number of SW folks and none of them have brought a restraining order against me. Not yet anyway.

    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  21. #20
    Featured Member amylynnej's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    how many girls are on scj? I have no issue with males posting here or discussing any of the issues with us, even if theyre dont have a clue what its really like they can be useful. I think someone would have to be seriously jaded for them to want to kick off the males who come here.
    AmyLynne

  22. #21
    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    As with the thread that Kat started way back, I'm in complete agreement with what's being said. And, it needed to be said. For newer members, you can probably do a search and find the original thread, if it's still around. Though it did cause some tension last time around, and made a few waves, again it needed to be said.

    Especially here in Stripping (General), I feel and have always felt that the conversation should remain among the dancers. There is no need for outside input, and quite a few male members add their two cents whenever they feel like it. It is incredibly intrusive, and unnecessary. Hell, I'm a retired dancer, and hardly ever visit this area unless I see something that I can really add my experiences to.

    As it's been said before, there are PLENTY of other boards on this site, and even one geared specificially towards customers. Then, of course, there's the blue site. I also realize that a lot of guys don't want to be hanging over there, which I can totally understand. I've only been over there a few times myself.

    It was also discussed before, the idea of password protection. But, we'd run into problems with it. New accounts would no doubt be popping up, just to get access to it. The same kind of idea was discussed with Ladies Only (Restricting access to only allow female members in), because occasionally a male will post there, intentionally or not. It just wouldn't work.

    It's just common sense with any areas of the site, to think before you post. Some areas your advice/input may be welcome, and others it may not be. This is definitely an area where outside input isn't needed.

    I can't think of anything more to add right now, except for this quote from Rose's post. It hit the nail right on the head.

    I do think there is a high number of males on here that do bark up the wrong tree, so to speak. But I swear most of you pull this shit out of your ass, and I wish you let it remain there.

  23. #22
    God/dess A_Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhiannon
    For newer members, you can probably do a search and find the original thread, if it's still around.
    and in the spirit of saving time and preventing another period of negativity on SW, here's the original ...

    newcomers - read up

    http://www.stripperweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37967

    and a valuable excerpt from Pryce:
    Quote Originally Posted by Pryce


    Just for an official comment on the situation, Katrine is 100% right. We allow male members to post in this section because their input CAN be valuable. Members like Jay, Djoser, etc. are trully assets to this site and the dancers here (don't get your panties in a bunch if you're not in that list guys - they're just two examples that have long earned their stripes). BUT, there are comments that are better left out. In this area specifically, we require posts and topics to be Stripping related. The ladies come here for information and to share advice/support. Posts that are irrelevant, silly, just say "you're hot", "I'd treat you like...", or argue against a members personal rant are not welcome.

    As Bridgette has said, this is not CustomerWeb. There are 100 of those site. Make use of them. This is not a site to flame dancers.

    Irrelevant or silly posts belong in the lounge, customer related posts belong at SCJ or in customer conversation. The "you're hot" posts are tougher...obviously some want them - especially in the picture post section, but for the most part, they just make you seem creepy.

    We tend to be loose on the rules because we want everyone to have a good time, but when things are abused for too long or by too many, we do crack down. The rules are simple - follow them.

  24. #23
    242_fair
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    I personall searched out this site so I could associate with other women who share my experience of being a dancer.

    The opinions of men on this site are worthless to me. If I wanted to knwo what a man though about something, I would bring it up while I was getting paid $300 an hour to talk to him.

    I vote men should be kicked out of 'stripping general' and 'hustle hut' and 'ladies only' especially! (Oh, sorry, this wasn't a voting poll. But I should start one...

  25. #24
    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Sweet, AG. Thanks for saving them the trouble. If anything at all, I hope that Pryce's message is taken in.

  26. #25
    God/dess Farrah_Holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Don't flame me, I need to say it - Part II

    Thank you Adina and Kat (for the original thread) for this topic. I have to admit that the number of guys (non dancer) on Stripper (general) can be overwhelming at times. I do appreciate many of the male members but, it does get annoying having to scroll through guys hijacking threads.
    I also get annoyed when particular members feel its their duty to single out or verbally degrade female members. I wonder how they would act in a SC? Granted this isn't one but, most of the members on SW are in the adult sex industry in some shape or form.
    It would be nice if everyone could just respect this particular area as Stripper only.
    My new love...is me !

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    Jhuka

    When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
    Maya Angelou


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