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Thread: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

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    Default What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    "What concerns me is the coercion involved in these seemingly well-intentioned events in the context of public school, something I could not avoid. The object was to prod me into Bible Belt Christianity, regardless of my own or my family's beliefs. I am appalled to learn that Bible school still exists in parts of rural America. I fear for children growing up in this country's present climate of oppressive religiosity. They are as vulnerable as I once was. "

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    If the Christians gotta give up bible school,Mormons gotta give up BYU,its only fair.

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    Banned BigGreenMnM's Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    I got that part.
    Is this more anti "Under god and liberty for all",pledge of,nonsense, or are you saying they are preaching the gospel in public schools?

    I dont see what your complaining about??

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    "Preaching the gospel in public schools..." Wrong! Now hear the truth of the story.

    You read the op-editorial, but did not go back to the source:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan22.html

    The 'classes' are not at public school... they are at a church next door... students have
    been allowed to voluntarily attend during their recess breaks. Although there is
    a small degree of approval required from the public schools to allow the voluntary
    participation during the school day, it is hardly bible teaching in public school.
    The practice is questionable, but apparently has been going on for 65 years and
    some of this activity goes back to 1929. It seems that classes once were actually
    held in public school class rooms, but that apparently ended in 1948. A Supreme
    Court decision in 1952 ruled (Zorach v. Clauson) that classes held away from school premises,
    might be unwise from an educational practice but that to prevent it would be hostile to religious
    freedom.

    (snip)
    More than 1,000 residents signed a petition urging the School Board to continue the weekly Bible classes in the middle of the school day...

    "We have a small core of a group philosophically opposed to any connection between religiosity and schools. They're articulate and persuasive, but they are in the minority."

    Bible classes in public schools were once common across the nation. The first proponents in the early years of the last century were liberal Protestant reformers who believed Christianity would mitigate the evils of segregation and war...
    (snip)

    The op-editorial was about the author's experience in the 1940s in
    rural Virginia. Not exactly, PC, but even then the editorial includes:
    "Bible school was voluntary... I begged my mother to allow me to attend. I thought I would seem less odd if I did what my classmates did. My mother relented, and I went to Bible school one morning a week....Bible school was innocuous..."

    Parents are always allowed to take their own children out of school for doctor/dentist visits,
    music lessons, etc. This isn't much different. A very different situation than advertised.

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    Followup: Monday 2/14/05, School Board Votes 5-1 to continue the program
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Feb15.html

    Students at public elementary schools in Staunton, Va., can continue to take weekly Bible lessons at a church in the middle of the day, the local School Board has decided, although it left open the door to review its decision next year.

    Staunton is one of about 20 localities in Virginia, most along the Interstate 81 corridor, that release public school students from classes during the school day for religious instruction in nearby churches or trailers. U.S. Supreme Court decisions have endorsed the practice known as Weekday Religious Education, or WRE, as long as classes are held off school premises.

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    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    I have no problem with students who choose to attend religious education but I don't feel that such a course belongs in the middle of a school day at a public school. It belongs either before or after school or on the weekends, during a students free time and not as part of the public education system.

    This program is nothing but an attempt to force children into religion using peer pressure and the public education system. It is my opinion that people who truely understand and defend freedom of religion would take issue with this program. Religious education is a personal choice that should be made by and with the family, not by the government.

    If parents want their children to attend Bible classes during the school day then the should enroll them in a private religious school .
    Last edited by Mark W.; 02-16-2005 at 01:29 AM.

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    I guess the Supreme Court doesn't understand freedom of (or from) religion then. This
    religious education IS a choice that being made by families and not by the government.

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    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    I'm sorry, I did not know it was forbidden to have or express an opinion that disagrees with Supreme Court. Or is it that it's just not ok for someone to disagree with you? Hmm. Yes, I think the 2nd one makes much more sense. None-the-less I have a few questions and a comment about your reply.

    Would be so supportive if the classes were education about another religion besides Christianity ?

    What if your child chose to attend classes on the Muslim faith would you still support this program ?

    I'd bet a weeks pay that you and those like you would be pitching a huge hissy fit trying to force such a class out of the public school day.

    You have the right to support government sanctioned religious training or to worship your Republican Gods and Idols if you want, but do try to remember that others, like it or not, have the right to be different than you.

    However on 2nd though... I don't suggest you play ball anymore with me tonight cosidering the last time you were at bat you struck out at every swing. I'd hate for you to have a repeat performance and suffer the humilation that goes along with being sent back to the dugout with a score of zero , yet again
    Last edited by Mark W.; 02-16-2005 at 12:20 AM.

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    I never said I supported this program and I don't really care what religion it is about, only that it's
    been determined to be legal and popular. You're free to disagree, no one said otherwise.
    So, you're wrong on all counts: Muslims can do what they want, this isn't worshiping
    Republican gods, etc. And you can do what you want: make an ass of yourself, etc.
    But to say 'People who truely understand ... this will take issue' is simply ignorant and wrong.
    Better to say why the Supreme Court was wrong, link to their decision, etc. rather than
    make blanket statements about what the opinion of every one else should be.
    I've never been interested in debating this program, merely in providing information
    about it, especially since the op-editorial which led this thread off did not provide
    details about it and the suggestion was that it was a new bible study program in public school at
    public school... neither of which has been true since the 1940s. Thus, the entire premise
    of this thread (the bible in public schools) was flawed. It was a complete "opps, never mind".
    Statements above like: "They are preaching the gospel in public schools...I don't care what
    religious book - I don't want it "preached" in public schools." were completely wrong.
    It has always been a voluntary non-public school program. I addressed the point "Religious
    education is a personal choice... which should be made...not by the government." Answer
    again: It isn't being made by the government. I don't see how any personal attack helps inform
    anyone. However, if you want to humiliate yourself yet again, that's your business. I doubt
    many people are interested in bothering with it. I certainly don't care what you think and
    the idiotic attempt to personalize an issue by attacking the only one on this thread who has
    provided accurate information here is pathetic.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Mark W.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: What the Bible Shouldn't Rule

    Quote Originally Posted by myssi
    And you can do what you want: make an ass of yourself, etc.
    But to say 'People who truely understand ... this will take issue' is simply ignorant and wrong.
    Better to say why the Supreme Court was wrong, link to their decision, etc. rather than
    make blanket statements about what the opinion of every one else should be.
    I've never been interested in debating this program, merely in providing information
    about it, especially since the op-editorial which led this thread off did not provide
    details about it and the suggestion was that it was a new bible study program in public school at
    public school... neither of which has been true since the 1940s. Thus, the entire premise
    of this thread (the bible in public schools) was flawed. It was a complete "opps, never mind".
    Statements above like: "They are preaching the gospel in public schools...I don't care what
    religious book - I don't want it "preached" in public schools." were completely wrong.
    It has always been a voluntary non-public school program. I addressed the point "Religious
    education is a personal choice... which should be made...not by the government." Answer
    again: It isn't being made by the government. I don't see how any personal attack helps inform
    anyone. However, if you want to humiliate yourself yet again, that's your business. I doubt
    many people are interested in bothering with it. I certainly don't care what you think and
    the idiotic attempt to personalize an issue by attacking the only one on this thread who has
    provided accurate information here is pathetic.
    Lots of opinion there, not much fact and I love you you said that someones elses opinion about not wanting any religous book being taught in schools was completely wrong. It is as if you are saying she doesn't even know her own opinion and that you know better than she does herself on the matter of her opinions.

    Funny stuff, really !

    And most interesting of all was how you called me ignorant, an ass , pathetic and idiotic but somehow I am the one you claim made personal attacks.

    Right-O then moving on.....
    Last edited by Mark W.; 02-16-2005 at 01:36 AM.

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