Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47

Thread: Creation VS. Evolution ?

  1. #1
    God/dess
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,352
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I guess I am more curious about this because I see a lot of religion being tossed around this forum ( with the politics). I hope not to offend anyone here but I keep thinking to myself that if more people believed in evolution would the world be a different place today ?

    I just cant get myself to believe any God would want the world to be the way it is and why would it continue if we were trully blessed with the pressence of a God .I do go to church every now and again but inside my heart I dont think I could dedicate myself to the lord . How do you all feel about this ?

  2. #2
    God/dess A_Guy's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2004
    Location
    Cleveland
    Posts
    2,188
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Creation vs. Evolution, Part I

    my take on it:
    Quote Originally Posted by A_Guy
    Oh yeah, and I do believe in evolution... the genetic mutation of an organism not due to a need, but rather due to a genetic malfunction in replication during birth or growth. Mutations can come in three different categories:

    (a) bad
    (b) neutral
    (c) good
    obviously.

    In terms of the evidence of evolution, yes, it is not as apparent in humans, dogs, cats, or other complex organisms during our relatively short life spans. However, what about on the microscopic level (i.e. bacterial, viruses). How often have we heard of bacteria becoming immune to antibiotics, and the need to develop more powerful counter agents? The bacteria didn't evolve out of a need, rather the bacteria with the genetic mutation that allowed them to possess a resistance to the antibiotic will live on and proliferate.

  3. #3
    God/dess onlythebest's Avatar
    Joined
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Hurricane Wasteland,Louisiana
    Posts
    8,088
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 23 Times in 19 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Here's an old thread on this topic.

    http://stripperweb.com/forum/showthr...tion+evolution
    One of woman's cardinal rule: Body parts can be fake,everything else has to be real.

    一个女人的枢机规则:肢体可以伪造,一切必须真实.

    中国大CHINESE BIG BOOBS!!!中国大




  4. #4
    God/dess
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    2,352
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by onlythebest
    Here's an old thread on this topic.

    http://stripperweb.com/forum/showthr...tion+evolution
    Thanks otb , maybe we will get some new input on the subject .

  5. #5
    God/dess Farrah_Holiday's Avatar
    Joined
    May 2003
    Location
    Waikiki, West Hollyhood
    Posts
    4,638
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Well, I do believe in a "higher power" but at times I ask myself the same questions.
    If there is a God how can he/she allow so many negative things to happen in the world ?
    However I can also argue that many of the tragedies are caused by man and have nothing to do with God.
    My new love...is me !

    Even the greatest authority does not, ultimately, know you as you know yourself.
    Jhuka

    When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
    Maya Angelou


  6. #6
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    9,746
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 50 Times in 31 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousJ
    I just cant get myself to believe any God would want the world to be the way it is and why would it continue if we were trully blessed with the pressence of a God .I do go to church every now and again but inside my heart I dont think I could dedicate myself to the lord . How do you all feel about this ?
    How do you think God WOULD want the world? and why?
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

  7. #7
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,355
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I'd tend to agree with Tigerlilly. The world today is a combination of man's influence and a higher powers. Personally I think that if more people truly believed in evolution the world be a worse place today. Do we really want to live in a world where the only rule is "survival of the fitest"?
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  8. #8
    Jay Zeno
    Guest

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I'm comfortable with what I know, with what I can learn, and that there's a bunch out there that I'll never know.

  9. #9
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Saint effing Louis
    Posts
    6,804
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerlilly
    I believe the history of life and mankind itself is a combonation of Creation & Evolution.

    I also believe we are not meant to ever know without a shadow of a doubt on these matters--- If that were the case what use would people have for faith.
    Agreed. Evolution and Creationism are hardly mutually exclusive.

    But there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence for Evolution, and ZERO evidence for Creation (at least the Garden of Eden/Genesis type that fire and brimstone bible thumpers insist upon). The whole Lions, Tigers, and Bears appeared suddenly on the scene 6000 years ago WITH THE EARTH idea was debunked a hundred years ago. But that doesn't mean a Creator isn't involved. It just means that if there is a Creator, then that Creator likes to do things the meticulously hard way rather than the light from the heavens easy way...

    Many will have you believe that the science of Evolution is anti-god. This isn't the case. Science has nothing to say about God one way or the other. Science is only concerned with things that can be observed, and things that leave evidence behind them. Unless they manage to catch God and examine him/her/it science hasn't got a lot to say on the subject. If there is a God, there must be some way to detect his presence, though... An interesting train of thought...

  10. #10
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Ehhh...I've said it before, but I'll post it here, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    According to the Mayan Calendar, the earth is 16.5 BILLION years old. Also according to the calendar, the earth was uninhabitable back then...only with the crashing of meteors into the earth and the aftershock/effects of that happening was water and "atomosphere" created. Organisms began to live and grow...creating more and more life forms...as time went on life forms "changed" to adapt to the changes in the environment. The life forms that could not change were eradicated (by natural means). Humans have lasted for so long because we have the ability to change with our environment.

    This is so much more involved, and I am still learning about it all, but it makes much more sense to me than any of the other theories out there. I, personally, am more willing to believe the Mayans than any other source.

    You really need to read this book:

    Solving the Great Mystery of Our Time: The Mayan Calendar
    By: Carl Johan Calleman

    It's very scientifc, but absolutely, positively amazing.

  11. #11
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Saint effing Louis
    Posts
    6,804
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    I'd tend to agree with Tigerlilly. The world today is a combination of man's influence and a higher powers. Personally I think that if more people truly believed in evolution the world be a worse place today. Do we really want to live in a world where the only rule is "survival of the fitest"?
    "Survival of the fittest" is a minconception. Darwin never actually meant that the way it comes across. Most people interpret it as "Only the strong survive" when this is often not the case. If it was, then why is the Tyrannosaurus Rex extinct while the rats that once shit themselves beneath it's feet are running around holding elections and arguing politics on stripperweb today (in a manner of speaking, they weren't really rats)? It's actually "Survival of the best suited to it's environment." Meaning that if a deep water fish is really, really good at being a deep water fish, then it will survive where another deep water fish might not, because it isn't so good at it. One lives to pass on those genes that helped it live despite the shortage of food and abundance of predators, one died without passing on those genes that failed to help it see that toothed thing in that shadows beneath the rocks... or whatever.

    Can you get to the leaves? They grow tall. If not, guess who starves. If so, you eat and live. So you make babies that also have your long neck. They can reach the leaves, too. Someday intelligent freaks will call your descendants a Giraffe. If the other species couldn't eat the leaves, maybe they can eat the grass, if they can maybe they live. Maybe they starve to death and those genes die with them, but maybe they can eat grass (grass is lousy for nutrition), and the ones with verticle stripes can blend in with the grass better so stalking hunters have a harder time seeing them. And of those, the ones that can run the fastest might one day be called Zebras (or horses). Oh, and in west africa, there's these things that once climbed trees that also live on the savannah... The ones among them who survived were the ones that could stretch their legs looooong enough so that they could see over the tall grass... See stalking hunters before they saw them... They were physically weak, see, so they needed an edge... Stand as tall as you can and look, let that brain work where those arms can't...

    And before you know it you've got Zebras, Giraffes, and Humans...

    None of that has anything to do with Social Darwinism.

    If Animals could AFFORD to be like us, they would. If they could helicopter in some emergancy response team to help out their sick, they would do it. And if they could nuke their enemy, sometimes they would (and do). Thing is, animals ane humans are a world apart. We can be friends, and often are (i love my dogs), but they will never really understand us and the likewise is also true. Why can we not get why our dog wants to kill the new puppy? Why does the Cat want to KILL the squirrels in the back yard? Go grey and you will never get it.

    Evolution and Morality is a convoluted issue. Who is to say that a Dog killing the new baby puppy isn't the pure and right thing for that dog to do? And it's just US that objects to it. That HUMAN morality is all that stops that dog, in the form of "NO" and "GET SPANKED" from doing what it feels is the right thing to do? Ever wonder why your Cat hisses at the neighbor? What does your Canary REALLY feel about you? In all honesty, Social Darwinism only applies to animals and animal behavior. Really, even the animal lovers among those who may read this must admit, they can be pretty ruthless.

    On to Social Darwinism among Humans.

    Evolution, in reality, has nothing to do with Human morality at all anymore than a volcano or a supernova does, it's only that 'one thing will survive to pass on it's genetic material while another thing will die out.' Biological Evolution can't even speak of morality at all, since it is only concerned with how life came to be what it is NOW and where it might be going. It's not anything to do with Human virtue (which is absent in the animal kingdon, by and large). It's SOCIAL Darwinism that you mean. And only freaks like Hitler really believe that stuff.

    When you add a driving force like intelligence and compassion into the equasion things change a lot. The thing about Social Darwinism is that it asks people to not be human, but rather be that which we percieve animals to be. Unthinking and uncaring. In all honesty, animals are neither but are both out of need to survive. It's hell on the mother seal to see her pups get knocked around by killer whales and then eaten, but is she gonna go save them? No. A human mother might, because you have to take into account that massive brain mass Humans have (she might get herself killed, but damn well she just might go try to fight off the whale, not that a killer whale has any interest in a human kid, but i'm sliding off my point). That brain mass means more intelligence, but it also means more complexity. This leads to more erratic, in terms of the other species in the world, behavior.

    Actually, social Darwinism could warrant a thread of it's own. It just doesn't take anything into account that has happened in the last hundred thousand years of human history. Social Darwinism probably served us well when while we were running around clubbing one another over the head and chasing things with sharp sticks, but it forgets that we have figured out so much since then. For instance, Germ Theory. We take it for granted that disease is caused by bacteria, and that if you take some pill it will kill the bacteria and you won't be sick anymore. That wasn't always the case. Someone had to figure that one out. Social Darwinism, when you get right down to it, says "Well, that person's immune system wasn't strong enough, s/he doesn't need to pass on those weak genes." Nevermind that it's shit anymore, that things like that are low on our list of worries next to, say, the Atom bomb (what you could call an unfortunate side effect, and is a great point of argument against intelligence being good thing for a species, beavers might build dams and fuck up their environment, but you won't see them wiping out every beaver alive anytime soon)...

    There are probably more Social Darwinists out there than are willing to admit it, but those people are actually pretty stupid. We no longer HAVE to abandon the broken legged hunter to the forest, we can now call a helicopter to come get him. When you really boil social Darwinism down, he needs to stay there. You'll also notice that most Social Darwinists see everything as being weak, except themselves and those that are "like them."

    Evolution (A science that has nothing to do with Darwin) has ziltch to do with Social Darwinism (A philosophy that is a damned shitty side effect of Darwin, even though his book, the Origin of Species, isn't concerned with humans in the slightest bit).

    Like i said, this could warrant a topic of it's own.
    Last edited by Madcap; 02-15-2005 at 12:29 AM.

  12. #12
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Saint effing Louis
    Posts
    6,804
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Venus,

    The mayans were pretty cool. Great history.

    But the oldest rock ever found was tested at 3.8 billion years old. The Solar System is about 4.5 billion years old, give or take (probably a little older but not must, geologically speaking). This is demonstrable. However, there is a lot the Mayans got right, the age of the UNIVERSE for instance (This may be what you mean). The Mayans placed the beginning of creation at around that. And they were most likely right.

  13. #13
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,355
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Madcap, it's been waaaaay too long since I studied this stuff. My comment was meant to address the original comment, "but I keep thinking to myself that if more people believed in evolution would the world be a different place today". My answer is yes, the world would be different, but not necessarily better.

    If you look around, you'll see evidence of how darwinism continues to shape our thoughts and beliefs, especially in the areas of sports, business, and politics. Ever watch "The Apprentice"? To me, human morality is one argument against natural selection and for some element of intelligent design. The human less inclined to assist his fellow man would be more likely to pass on his genes and our whole morality system would have never "evolved". A gazelle that breaks his leg will be left by the herd to be eaten by the lions. Generally speaking, humans would never do that. To me, that indicates that some of our inner belief systems must be designed.

    Also, I have never been able to totally accept the whole, "the animal with the slightly longer neck passed his longer-neck genes on and eventually evolved into the giraffe" logic. Take lions for example. Darwinism teaches that the strongest lion will pass his genes on to future generations of lions. But the strong lion's offspring might very well be eaten by a predator a few days after being born and never pass on his stronger genes. That animal with the slightly longer neck could very will slip at a watering hole, break his leg and die of hunger, never passing on his longer-neck genes.

    Darwin spent years studying artificial selection used by animal and plant breeders to improve their herds and crops. Then he claimed that the same principles could be used to explain how the species came to be in the wild. One could argue that by claiming that artificial selection could explain the origin of the species, that in fact, Darwin was making a case for intelligent selection. In any event, there is an element of chance in nature that darwinism doesn't address.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  14. #14
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Saint effing Louis
    Posts
    6,804
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    Madcap, it's been waaaaay too long since I studied this stuff. My comment was meant to address the original comment, "but I keep thinking to myself that if more people believed in evolution would the world be a different place today". My answer is yes, the world would be different, but not necessarily better.

    If you look around, you'll see evidence of how darwinism continues to shape our thoughts and beliefs, especially in the areas of sports, business, and politics. Ever watch "The Apprentice"? To me, human morality is one argument against natural selection and for some element of intelligent design. The human less inclined to assist his fellow man would be more likely to pass on his genes and our whole morality system would have never "evolved". A gazelle that breaks his leg will be left by the herd to be eaten by the lions. Generally speaking, humans would never do that. To me, that indicates that some of our inner belief systems must be designed.

    Also, I have never been able to totally accept the whole, "the animal with the slightly longer neck passed his longer-neck genes on and eventually evolved into the giraffe" logic. Take lions for example. Darwinism teaches that the strongest lion will pass his genes on to future generations of lions. But the strong lion's offspring might very well be eaten by a predator a few days after being born and never pass on his stronger genes. That animal with the slightly longer neck could very will slip at a watering hole, break his leg and die of hunger, never passing on his longer-neck genes.

    Darwin spent years studying artificial selection used by animal and plant breeders to improve their herds and crops. Then he claimed that the same principles could be used to explain how the species came to be in the wild. One could argue that by claiming that artificial selection could explain the origin of the species, that in fact, Darwin was making a case for intelligent selection. In any event, there is an element of chance in nature that darwinism doesn't address.
    Actually, in one respect, i disagree... The human who is most likely toi assist his fellow human isn't less likely, s/he's MORE likely. All those nitwits thuggin it, or out there putting their lives on thew line for bullshit reasons are likely to pass stuff on, but in evolutionary terms (remember, Evolution deals with millions rather than thousands of years) they keep dying. Their kids keep dying. And i'm the son of one of those funky dudes, as are we all really when you dump to it.

    And darwin coined natural selection (which was his only real addition to the theory of evolution at all, since his grandfather was a proponent of the theory of evolution) in the americas. I forget where. The same place with the giant turtles, i think.

    And the 'lion' might be a poor example, since the lion is still kicking. Try the Bearwolf. Lived about 20 million years ago. Terrific evidence in the fossil record for it's evolution into both Bear and, well, wolf...

    There was another animal living then that was like a boar (Didn't look like one though), only satan's boar. Most mean tempered thing you ever saw if you can judge by the many mangled bones. It has no descendants.


    And let's talk about Ambulocetus, a transitional form between land mammil and whale. I'm afraid you might be able to beat me in a moral debate, but in a 'did evolution happen' debate, i'm afraid the evidence is on my side. But we can agree on one thing, social Darwinism is trying to drag humanity back to a place it once was, but if we are to evolve to the point where we may become a starfaring species, we must leave it behind.
    Last edited by Madcap; 02-15-2005 at 02:11 AM.

  15. #15
    Banned Madcap's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Saint effing Louis
    Posts
    6,804
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny
    the strongest lion will pass his genes on to future generations of lions. But the strong lion's offspring might very well be eaten by a predator a few days after being born and never pass on his stronger genes.
    And this very thing has probably happened about a million times. Sheer luck (or God) has a hand. After all, for 250 million years the Dinosaurs ruled the roost. They were obliterated by a random hammerblow from space...

    (whisper)Mammals existed then, though, so god is far from out of the equasion...(/whisper) This is assuming that God's ultimate plan is for warm blooded milk drinking monkeys... Humanity (A chilling thought, what if it's NOT HIS plan, what if it's ROACHES [in that case you know once and for all that god is a man, because only a man would give the earth to the roaches] bleah).

    As a side note, when people of a religious background talk about folk like Paul and other celibate fanatics as our ancestors, those ones who studiously kept from sex in any form. They were better than us, there descendants... huh?

    Nope.

    Those people were, obviously NOT our ancestors. Evolution was at work there. You don't wanna pass it on, guess what...

    Our ancestors were the ones that couldn't control themselves.




    I may seem like i'm advocating total free fornication, when i'm really not. Actually, what i advocate is sharp eyes towards anyone one might concieve a child with. Anything other than that have a blast. Race matters nothing to me, since it's only the human race i even think about.

    In fact, Social Darwinism is where i am convinced Racism comes from. That old, long lost, idea of "if that dude isn't from my tribe then he needs to me chased away" thinking. I think racism i8s an instinct inherrant to humanity, one that is being selected out in this unique point in time... Evolution does stuff like that...

    It would be pretty cool if it turned out there was a God making everything happen, though. I'd dig that.
    Last edited by Madcap; 02-15-2005 at 03:11 AM.

  16. #16
    Jay Zeno
    Guest

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Evolution is provable and observable. The biological and quantum mechanics of it aren't fully understood, but are better understood each passing year.

    Madcap, the place you're thinking of is Galapagos, a study house of isolated evolution. Darwin's observations there are recorded in his book "The Voyage of the Beagle," where he solidified his evolutionary theories in observations around the world.

    There's stuff that Darwin didn't get right. He was plowing new ground. That doesn't mean evolution doesn't happen. There's plenty that Copernicus didn't get right, too. That doesn't mean that the earth is at the center of the universe and everything revolves around it.
    Last edited by Jay Zeno; 02-15-2005 at 10:08 AM.

  17. #17
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    Venus,

    The mayans were pretty cool. Great history.

    But the oldest rock ever found was tested at 3.8 billion years old. The Solar System is about 4.5 billion years old, give or take (probably a little older but not must, geologically speaking). This is demonstrable. However, there is a lot the Mayans got right, the age of the UNIVERSE for instance (This may be what you mean). The Mayans placed the beginning of creation at around that. And they were most likely right.
    I don't claim to be an expert in this field...and I believe what feels right to me. However, There are also Egyptian scholars who insist that the Sphynx is erroded by way of SAND and not WATER. Which would not explain the errosion patterns...nor the flooding inside.

    Sometimes scientists date the things that they have found to fit with what they believe. Just like the so-called scholars of Egyptian Pyramids cannot accept that the pyramids were built tens of thousands of years prior to when they want to believe they were built.

    Creation and evolution go hand in hand. With living beings, there is no way to have them created without having them eventually evolve into something more adaptable and survivable. Viruses are a great example (though they are not technically *living*). Each year, viruses get more and more obnoxious. They are harder to treat and harder to fend off. Why? Because they are adapting to their current environment. Had we not flooded our societies with tons of antibiotics and stuff, I doubt the viruses would have a need to become more resistent to anything that we throw at them.

    It may not be a great debate, however, creation and evolution go hand in hand. Maybe there are some out there who don't believe in a "God". But, there is an "energy" out there that helps things move, change, etc. I call it Universal Energy. The Big Oneness...Master Creator. I think a lot of people have a problem, not with God, but with the image that they were raised on of God (or Allah, or whatever). The hardest thing to do is to imagine a God who has no human downfalls, pitfalls, tendencies, expectations, etc. I believe that God/Creator is not about "right and wrong" but about "experience and wholeness".

    Anywho...there would be no creation without evolution and no evolution without creation. Everything has forever been tied into each other. Everything is always connected. Once people realize this, they may change the way that they choose to live on a daily basis.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    JZ, I assume you mean the mechanics of it are NOT fully understood?

    I think there's plenty of room for creation AND evolution to be integrated into your worldview and for faith to encompass evolution. I think the specific conflict between the Bible (and the literalist interpretations thereof) and evolution is much more intractable. I come down on the "evolution" side of the argument quite firmly, but obviously that's a thorny topic...
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  19. #19
    Jay Zeno
    Guest

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Sorry, Lurker, yes. I noticed that and edited it about the same time you were posting.

    One of my best associates is solidly religious fundamentalist on the issue. It's not thorny for me at all. The associate can believe what the associate wants to believe, and I'm not going to try to promote my views. We're both serene in our discrete views. Millions of people believed for thousands of years that the world was flat. It just looked right - it just felt right. Still, somehow, the world kept turning. After the facts came to light, millions of people still believed otherwise for a while. Eventually, the facts ruled.

    The facts will ultimately rule. People will happily heat food in their microwaves while denying that quantum processes work and can be measured in cosmologic and geologic realms. Well, OK.

  20. #20
    God/dess
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    2,218
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 209 Times in 142 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I think religion fills a psychological need in a good part of the world's population.

    (a) On a day to day basis we can feel very much a pawn in the great scheme of things, with little control over our circumstances. In such a case it can be comforting to feel that there is some Deity whom we can appeal to by prayer, etc., to redress the problems.

    (b) We have a finite span of life. Again, it is comforting to some to believe that there is an afterlife and that some immortal part of us, (a soul), will continue when our physical body has ceased to function.

    The strength of this pyschological need will vary from individual to individual. Some, (like myself for instance), are atheists and do not believe in a Deity. Others are extremely devout, with religion playing a central and very important role in their life.

    The stronger your religious belief, the greater the tendency to believe in Creationism as it is an extension of the powers of that Deity.

    The problem with evolution and creationism is that they use very different vocabularies. Evolution is "scientific" in its appraoch, with fact being tested against theory. There will be instances where sections of the theory are found wanting, and have to be replaced by something better, but in general experimental data is tested to see if it fits into a framework.

    Creationism depends much more on faith. Just as the devoutly religious have faith in a Deity that cannot be directly encountered, so their creationism is based on an extension of their belief in that Deity and his powers. As such they do not rely entirely on scientific evidence.

    The two parties to the debate thus approach from very different premises. One is based on something tangible, one on something more intangible. I would come down firmly on the side of evolution on the grounds that it is a testable, verifiable paridigm. Creationism is partially a matter of personal faith, which complicates the debate.

    Phil W.

  21. #21
    Pamela
    Guest

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Creation...YES! But now we as humans do evolve all the time, look at todays technology for example. But i firmly believe a higher being "God" got the ball rolling!!!

    Pamela

  22. #22
    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,355
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    Actually, in one respect, i disagree... The human who is most likely toi assist his fellow human isn't less likely, s/he's MORE likely. All those nitwits thuggin it, or out there putting their lives on thew line for bullshit reasons are likely to pass stuff on, but in evolutionary terms (remember, Evolution deals with millions rather than thousands of years) they keep dying. Their kids keep dying. And i'm the son of one of those funky dudes, as are we all really when you dump to it.

    And darwin coined natural selection (which was his only real addition to the theory of evolution at all, since his grandfather was a proponent of the theory of evolution) in the americas. I forget where. The same place with the giant turtles, i think.

    And the 'lion' might be a poor example, since the lion is still kicking. Try the Bearwolf. Lived about 20 million years ago. Terrific evidence in the fossil record for it's evolution into both Bear and, well, wolf...

    There was another animal living then that was like a boar (Didn't look like one though), only satan's boar. Most mean tempered thing you ever saw if you can judge by the many mangled bones. It has no descendants.


    And let's talk about Ambulocetus, a transitional form between land mammil and whale. I'm afraid you might be able to beat me in a moral debate, but in a 'did evolution happen' debate, i'm afraid the evidence is on my side. But we can agree on one thing, social Darwinism is trying to drag humanity back to a place it once was, but if we are to evolve to the point where we may become a starfaring species, we must leave it behind.
    I used the lion only as an example, not in a literal sense. Although if darwinism is true, then in fact, lions are still evolving today, though of course not in any way perceptable to us.

    I never said evolution did not happen, I only said that I do not think current theories about evolution are fully satisfactory. I still don't see how natural selection addresses what I see as chance happenings (the strong lion's offspring eaten by a predator at birth for example). Also what about environmental changes? Natural selection teaches that the most mean tempered boar will survive to pass his genes on to future generations. But the biggest baddest boar is still going to starve to death in times of localized drought and will not pass his genes on, while perhaps his cooler tempered boar cousin in a area not stricken by as harsh a drought will survive.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

  23. #23
    God/dess
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    2,218
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 209 Times in 142 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    The other point to make is whether we can become our own "creationists."

    Before evolution was limited by natural processes. We are on the brink of being able to modify/improve ourselves as a conscious decision. We could use gene modification to maximise our physical and mental potential, while surgery/surgical implants could vary our physical appearance and abilities.

    Perhaps the "traditional" mechanisms of evolution will become obsolete as we use science to modify ourselves at a rate far exceeding natural processes?

    Phil W.

  24. #24
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
    Joined
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Home
    Posts
    13,598
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 28 Times in 23 Posts

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerlilly
    BINGO !!!!!!

    I agree 1000%

    That is (imo) why religion and faith came to be part of the world. It is a often misused gift to ease the hearts and minds of the human race.
    I would agree with you, but I would have to say that "misused" is the *wrong* word (IMHO). I would more willingly go with MISUNDERSTOOD. But, in the end...it all comes down to the same thing.

  25. #25
    Jay Zeno
    Guest

    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    It's not just need. It was a way to explain things when nothing else was available.

    You have learned to use tools to kill and dig for food. You have developed verbal symbology to communicate better. Many things are outside of your understanding. For instance you have a sun that comes up every morning and provides heat and light. How does that work? You offer a theory of personalization (sun god) that seems to work, and others adopt it and build on it. Indeed, it works so well, since there's no measurable way to verify it, that personalization is attached to other things - moon, stars, the weather, crop growth, and fertility, since sex is about our second-strongest drive.

    And so it goes. Now, maybe at some point in all this misinformation, at a certain point in humanity's awareness, God decided to be known to all (if you're Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, that point would be Abraham, or Ibrahaim). Or maybe there is no God, and it's just all an outgrowth of that scrabbling for understanding that our progenitors went through. Or may there's a God who's not observable but can be divined through our experiences and awareness. Those possibilities go to your individual beliefs.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Video Content Creation
    By wickvid in forum Other Work
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-04-2011, 09:45 PM
  2. My Christmas outfit creation!
    By MichelleJade in forum Picture Post
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-17-2008, 01:38 PM
  3. 2008 Lancer Evolution
    By BrunetteGoddess in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-09-2007, 09:02 AM
  4. Dangers of Evolution
    By Biz in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-16-2006, 07:06 PM
  5. Creation or Evolution
    By urnemesis in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 157
    Last Post: 08-09-2004, 04:15 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •