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Thread: Creation VS. Evolution ?

  1. #26
    Newbie Hep Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Faith, by definition, is belief in the ABSENCE of proof. In other words, your religious faith is considered more powerful if you can ignore mountians of evidence to the contrary. I dont see much nobility or benefit in playing deaf dumb and blind.

    Throught history, the faithful of many religions have cited prophecy as evidence that theirs was the true path. Yet there has never been a more consistantly accurate system than SCIENCE.


    The truth is out there, people, as close as a google search. If you have questions about Creationism vs Evolution, go to and learn the facts which are universally accepted by learned people of all cultures and backgrounds.

    Ive studied comparative religion. Ive spoken to many learned scholars and prayed in a variety of methods. The result? I'm a Hardcore Atheist. Science Logic and Reason have allowed humans to map DNA, to send vehicles to the outer reaches of our planets, to cure devestating plagues, and share our thoughts across the globe instantly via Stripper Web. When religion ruled the world, we suffered through the Dark Ages.

  2. #27
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Well, we were brought out of the Dark Ages by religious forces, too. And science had us draining blood out of sick people and giving them mercury poisoning. It's not that simplistic.

    Carl Sagan was a very bright guy and a stone atheist - sort of. To my view, he had his religion and his God, and they were Science.

  3. #28
    Newbie Hep Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Glad u brought up Sagan. Everyone with the courage of curiosity should read The Demon Haunted World.


    The superstision and dogma of religion have always been at odds with science. Science ADVANCES. Thats why we are no longer using outdated medical techniques. Science has allowed us to see the birth of distant stars.... religion would still have us think the earth is the center of the universe. Science has eliminated small pox and leprosy... religion would still have us excorcising evil spirits out of an epilitic with prayer and fire. Science is built on questioning testing examining and dixcovering. Dogma cant be questioned- blind obediance is necessary for its continuation. Thats why heretics and free thinkers were killed.

    If you need to believe that theres an invisible man that lives in the sky... who created everything out of nothing...who hung the stars in the sky and really cares about who touches your genitals... okay. (I dont get it- it sounds like a mental illness to me).

    Please dont equate any one of a thousand mystical faiths with the empirical reality of math, chemistry, astronomy or physics.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    "work smarter not harder" - why is it so hard to believe God does the same? Creation followed by evolution - even if the only thing created was the stuff to make the Big Bang.

    As God said to the scientist that challenged him to "who can make a human from nothing" - God picks up a handful of dirt, tosses it and POOF - a hot woman appears. Scientist reaches for dirt to do his trick...God says "get your own dirt"

  5. #30
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Faith is also based on experience and deduction. I have faith that around 7 am, it's going to get light out tomorrow morning. I had faith, based on prior experience, that my friend would hold my vehicle while I was out of the country, and I gave him a power of attorney to let him drive it. He sold it and kept the money. My faith was shaken a bit.

    When religion is at its best, it doesn't try to maintain dictates about the nature of the world. Rather, it maintains guidance about the behavior and best nature of us humans and our reverence to each other and the things we don't understand, whether those things are God, subquantum theory, Gaia, or the spirt of a butterfly.

    Science, yes, does advance, although not necessarily in wonderful ways. I support the advancement of science fully. However, neither am I blind to the benefits of benign spiritual guidance. I'll trade you all the hydrogen bombs in the world for one playing of Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desire." I'll gladly swap out the whole historic supply of Thalidomide for a rousing chorus of Handel's "Messiah" from a choir loft in the gothic arches. When we see a religious nut shooting a leader, we see the worst of religion. When we see a religious leader meeting with and forgiving the man who shot him, we see the best of it.

    Science explores and expands our knowledge. That's a wonderful thing. But without morality, science can be alternately destructive, constructive, or neutral in advancing the human condition. And morality doesn't come from empirical findings.

  6. #31
    Newbie Hep Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Curious about the creation of the Universe? Read some Stephen Hawking.


    *His books even have pictures!!


    Want to learn more about gods love and compassion? Read the Word!

  7. #32
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    So a fact and science theory book ... and negative-opinion articles. Not balanced.

    I've read "A Brief History of Time" and "The Universal In a Nutshell." Good books. Thanks anyway.

  8. #33
    Newbie Hep Kat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Please grab a cup of coffee and take 20 minutes to explore the following links. The spirit of inquirey and desire to know is what allows all of us to evolve as people. I GAURENTEE youll learn something from these.

    Curious about the creation of the Universe? Read some Stephen Hawking.

    *His books even have pictures!!


    Want to learn more about gods love and compassion? Yes, god actually commands rape, genocide and canibilism. Read the Word!


    The origins of ethics? Lookie Lookie



    Be Excellent

  9. #34
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I read the Discover article on the Avida computer modeling of evolutionary processes. Quite compelling.

    I wouldn't post biblical links because they won't be any more objective than atheist links. However, you can get some neat metaphysical deductions out of the Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologicae.

  10. #35
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I'm an agnostic on the God question. I don't believe in Gods, i've seen no evidence of gods, but likewise I've seen no evidence solidily disproving them so I have no idea whether or not they exist.

    Evolution clearly exists and humans are clearly a product of it.

    As for humans and morality, cooperating is a good trait to have. Humans have more to gain from cooperating than killing each other or ignoring each other. Many species have similar traits.

    More interest to me is evolutionary psychology/biology. Very kinky stuff in there:


    The reproductive tract inside a female chimpanzee becomes the battleground for a sperm war that takes place over the course of several days. Only one sperm among all of the billions within her vaginal tract and uterus can win the prize of fertilizing the egg. In fact, only a very small percentage of sperm, possibly as little as 1%, are even capable of fertilization; the rest of the sperm have an entirely different function. This other 99% of sperm consists of what are called blockers, or kamikaze sperm. Their function is to prevent the sperm of other males from reaching the egg.


    If the woman climaxes at any time up to a minute before the man, or does not have a orgasm at all, she retains relatively few sperm. If she climaxes at any time from a minute before the man to around 45 minutes after, she retains a relatively large number of sperm.

    Another intriguing implication of the difference between circumcised and intact males is the question of self-cuckoldry. Put another way, is it possible (short of artificial insemination) for a women to become pregnant by a man she never had sex with? We think the answer is “yes.”
    It's kinky stuff

  11. #36
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Why is it always Creation VS Evolution? I agree, the garden of eden is unlikely (at least as described in the beginning of the world), but why:

    Can't we accept that some being/power (call it God if you wish, or the Great Spirit, etc.) knows how to work smarter, not harder...and created a world that would that would evolve. Consider

    The big bang started the universe. But what created that material in the first place?

    God created the heavens and earth, but would it be a good use of Her time to design every single thing/creature/species there.

    Each species wants to grow and prosper, why wouldn't they evolve to do that better?

    Given that, why do we blame God for what goes wrong...but rarely credit for what goes right.

    I believe the world is a delicate mix of creation and evolution theory...and that God prefers teh cafeteria plan of life

  12. #37
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    Why is it always Creation VS Evolution? I agree, the garden of eden is unlikely (at least as described in the beginning of the world), but why:

    Can't we accept that some being/power (call it God if you wish, or the Great Spirit, etc.) knows how to work smarter, not harder...and created a world that would that would evolve. Consider

    The big bang started the universe. But what created that material in the first place?

    God created the heavens and earth, but would it be a good use of Her time to design every single thing/creature/species there.

    Each species wants to grow and prosper, why wouldn't they evolve to do that better?

    Given that, why do we blame God for what goes wrong...but rarely credit for what goes right.

    I believe the world is a delicate mix of creation and evolution theory...and that God prefers teh cafeteria plan of life
    Some people just flat out don't believe there is a god.



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

  13. #38
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    If you believe that random molecules can just randomly combine to form complex self-sustaining organisms, then why can't we just walk around and see a Lexus formed by nature, or perhaps an IPOD on the beach.

    There is definitely a designer involved in us as much as there is a Toyota. And while a physical organism may evolve/mutate, the concern of God is not about the physical structure but about the soul.

    Animals are designed to survive with pre-programmed instincts. It seems that humans are the only organisms provided with free will and abstract thought.

    Look at the perfection of how everything relates and convince us that there is not an intelligent designer involved.

    you should not discount the possiblity of God based on the inability of man to completely explain/justify religion any more than you should say that science is false because of a flawed theory proposed by a scientist.

    The only common denominator in both sides of these arguments is the ignorance of mankind and its abiity to comprehend.

    We might as well be flies arguing over the source of sugar. It is beyond our grasp and that is why we must have faith.

  14. #39
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitri
    If you believe that random molecules can just randomly combine to form complex self-sustaining organisms, then why can't we just walk around and see a Lexus formed by nature, or perhaps an IPOD on the beach.
    Don't mean to jack the thread...but can you imagine how much a self-evolved IPOD would go for on EBay? LOL...it would make the Mary Sandwich pale in comparison.

    Anyways...onwards with the discussion.

  15. #40
    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Animals are designed to survive with pre-programmed instincts. It seems that humans are the only organisms provided with free will and abstract thought.
    Then how come certain apes lean to make and use tools, certain species of birds create artwork for each other, and some penguins are gay? These don't seem pre-programmed modes of survival, especially when the tools involved are not of natural origin.

    you should not discount the possiblity of God based on the inability of man to completely explain/justify religion any more than you should say that science is false because of a flawed theory proposed by a scientist.
    Agreed. Most scientists who disallow God are breaking the first rule of science - that just because something can't (yet) be proven does NOT make it untrue. We didn't have an understaning of atomic energy when it was first used either, or electricity, or steam engines...

  16. #41
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess
    Don't mean to jack the thread...but can you imagine how much a self-evolved IPOD would go for on EBay? LOL...it would make the Mary Sandwich pale in comparison.

    Anyways...onwards with the discussion.
    VG, the real fun would be if the IPOD had PMS and would select its own music at certain times of the month. ha ha.

    For discrete dancer... I guess I have no explanation relative to apes making tools or gay penguins. I do think it is ironic that such a creature pre-equiped with a sense of style and a tux would have those tendencies. But even so, there is no abstract thinking involved. Many birds will use a twig to burrow for insects and the dreaded Shrike.. will get another bird and impale it on a branch or barbed wire fence before it eats its prey. But if within the species such tendicies seem to be uniform indicating a design or instinct.

    Granted apes or monkey may have more intelligence, but do they have abstract thought and sense of right or wrong.

    God has a sense of humor..

  17. #42
    Veteran Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    I think most scientists would say that they haven't seen any evidence for existence of a God, not that they don't believe one exists...

    Or they MIGHT say, if one does exist it doesn't care about us or get involved in our day-to-day lives in any (scientifically provable) way. If there's a Demiurge out there who created the universe several billion years ago and has allowed nature to take its course since, I don't see how that should matter to ME versus some quantum fluctuation being the reason I exist.
    "All this time you were pretending
    So much for my happy ending."
    --Avril Lavigne

  18. #43
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker
    I think most scientists would say that they haven't seen any evidence for existence of a God, not that they don't believe one exists...
    And it isn't just scientists that don't believe in God.



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    There are plenty of scientists that do believe in God, and plenty that do not.
    Scientists are people too....
    I think it's fair to say that most scientists reject the notion that the Earth is 6000 years old and all the creatures that dwell upon it were created in few days' time, just like they reject the idea that Earth is flat and the sun revolves around it. There's just too much evidence against it.
    Most scientists, however, believe that the constraints of science do not allow them to answer questions regarding the existence of God.

    Oh, look, here's some numbers.....
    In 1996, 40% of all scientists surveyed reported a belief in God.
    30% of biologists reported a belief in God (because biologists spend their days coming up with alternatives to the Argument from Design, I guess. Not out of some sort of hatred of religion or anything, it's just that that's their job )
    (survey cited in Evolutionary Analysis 3rd edition, by Freeman & Herron, 2004)

  20. #45
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Sitri, have you read much Dawkins? The Blind Watchmaker, Climbing Mount Improbable ?

  21. #46
    God/dess Silverback's Avatar
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by hardkandee
    And it isn't just scientists that don't believe in God.
    Yes. Clearly, God doesn't believe in scientists either.

    I guess I have no explanation relative to apes making tools or gay penguins
    And Sitri, why would apes make gay penguins?
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

  22. #47
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Creation VS. Evolution ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverback
    Yes. Clearly, God doesn't believe in scientists either.



    And Sitri, why would apes make gay penguins?
    The sentence noun is" I"
    The verb phrase is "have no explanation relative"
    The two subordinate clauses are (apes making tools) or (gay penguins).

    The active noun is not "apes" so it does not apply to the "gay penguins" clause. LOL.

    Too long for me since 8 grade english.

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