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Thread: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

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    Member Dave in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Angry 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    This case was mentioned in passing here but here is more bad information and the link to the case.

    9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    The usually liberal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (which decides cases in AZ as well as CA) has upheld a two-foot rule law that ends lap dancing. The ruling says regarding the erotic message (free expression) "Although the message may be slightly impaired from this distance, it cannot be that a dancer's performance 'no longer conveys eroticism' from two feet away."

    Furthermore, the judge reasoned, "the ordinance was thoroughly researched and narrowly tailored to combat the negative side effects of adult businesses that the city's research identified" and thus is not too "vague or overbroad." La Habra enacted the ordinance in question because the activity leads to prostitution, crime, drug use and disease.

    The decision was published January 26, 2005 and is at http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/ca9/newopinions.nsf/832B8C120133166A88256F95000427F2/$file/0456072.pdf?openelement
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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    9th Circuit is also notorious for being overturned at the SCOTUS.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Member Dave in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    But it is usually overturned because its too LIBERAL. Sadly this is the opposite situation. And not everyone can afford the huge legal expenses to appeal to the Supreme Court, to see if they will even hear the case.

    Sadly justice and individual rights are very costly to obtain in the U.S.

    At least for now... until Bush gets to change it er have the Lawrence vs Texas Supreme Court case which many attorneys think will eventually overturn the private prostitution laws.

    We are almost the only country in the world that makes private prostitution illegal. If that fell, it would take most of the seconday effects arguement away from the strip club lap dance issue. But someone has to have the big bucks to appeal lower court convictions
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    politicians need to mind their own business

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    Veteran Member Yea's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    You can visit Toronto for a lap dance!! ;" )


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    Member Dave in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Yea
    You can visit Toronto for a lap dance!! ;" )
    And I do frequently but instead of Toronto, Mississagua (for non Torntarians... where Toronto airport is located), and Niagara Falls with less restrictive licensing bylaws!
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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    Ok, where is this? 9th Circuit of what? Are we talking Phx, and when does this take affect? I couldn't get the url to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Member Dave in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    It is the Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeals of the United States. It is the highest court in the land except the Supreme Court. The U.S. is divided into Appellete Court regions. The 9th Circuit includes much of the West including AZ, CA, NV, I think also Washington, Oregon and New Mexico, maybe more.

    The case is in the Federal Courts since a lower local or state court decision against the club was appealed on grounds the law was unconstitutional since it prevented artistic expression. Since it was a question of the U.S. Constitution it was appealed to a Federal court.

    If another Circuit Appeals Court holds differently on a similar case that is often a reason the U.S. Supreme Court will hear the case.

    But the bad news is the 9th Circuit Court has the reputation of being the most liberal of them all. Bush wants to break it up since it often goes against his conservative agenda. It is not likely another Appeals Court would rule differently in a similar case.

    The effect is immediate. The next day the city that the case was about can start enforcing the 2 foot rule where dancers can't dance less than 2 feet from a client. And other cites are now free to adopt the same rule, at least in the states in the 9th District since it is now the law of the land of the West.

    Before the decision, the rule was not enforced, waiting for the Court to rule on the Constitutional issue. But the strip clubs lost and its a very bad precedent other lower Courts can follow.

    The long url for the decision has to be combined since it breaks unto a second line. May have to copy it to a text reader and then copy and paste to browser. Long urls are hard to get to work right on boards like this with short line lengths. You have to get the entire url into the browser for it to find it.
    Last edited by Dave in Phoenix; 02-15-2005 at 05:18 AM.
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    Veteran Member azamber's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    Link didn't work for me either, I found it by going to this part,
    then clicking on Opinions By Date, then January, then 1/26/05 Gammoh vs. City of La Habra. Seems like it's only good for La Habra. Doubt Phoenix will enforce it anytime soon. The clubs here have been good about fighting ridiculous prohibitions.

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    Featured Member WiseGuy_TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    Bridgette, the link is a PDF file. You have to have Adobe Reader installed to see it.

    HTML.........
    MetNews

    PDF...........
    Here is the page: Gammoh v City of La Habra
    Download Adobe Reader
    Court of Appeals PDF File


    "Peter, did you take Stewie to a strip-club? He smells like sweat and fear." - Lois and Stewie (Family Guy) ... "Through early morning fog I see, Visions of the things to be, The pains that are withheld for me, I realize and I can see..."

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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    I'm assuming that they mean La Habra, California. The decision assumably has nothing to do with Phoenix. All it means is that if another city wanted to pass a similar ordinance, it would more than likely be upheld.

    I do also point out that in many more conservative parts of the country lap dances have for years been by statute illegal in numerous cities, and in some cases entire states. But a law passed doesn't always constitute a law enforced. More often than not, the local LE agencies that have to enforce these laws have too many real criminals to catch to worry about the goings on in the strip clubs.

    I'm also sure that in many cases local clubs have an implicit under the table arrangement with the police department (complete with some under the table cash) to keep the enforcement of these ordinances to a minimum. A certain large city in Texas that has a bonafide reputation for extras despite a 3 foot rule being in place comes to mind.

    About the only really saddening news here (and not really surprising IMHO) is that even the most notoriously liberal Federal appeals court in the country won't step in and protect the strip club industry.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Member Dave in Phoenix's Avatar
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    Good comments

    But then we have cities like Phoenix, as one TV investigave report showed undercover vice cops spend $3000 for drinks and dances trying to find the slightest illegal touch with a customers, or a dancer touching her own breasts while dancing which is illegal in Phoenix..to "protect neighborhoods and children."

    The religious right group that proclaims as its goal to help 1000 cities across America pass anti-adult entertainment laws that will hold up in Court. This is a great win for those that want to outlaw any good human interaction. Women are only to be thought of as sex objects from afar, instead of any human contact. This somehow protects nighborhoods and children" in their sick minds.

    The fear is more and more cities will now pass a 2 foot law which now is easy to justify based on this Court decision.
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    Default Re: 9th Circuit Decision bad news for lap dancing

    The conservatives are working hard to ban all adult businesses or lets say to take the income potential out of them , and to criminalize any act performed which is required to sustain income.

    People knew that the Bush administration was anti civil rights and pro religion and voted for him anyway, why I don't know. The average citizen is a fool. Even though some liberal politicians enact anti dance ordinances, they do so just to stay in office and aren't trying to change the basic legal structure that our country is powered by.

    We are in for a major upheval over the next 5 years or so in this country and it WILL turn violent, mark my words.

    People will gradually wake up when they see that the conversion of this country to a religious nation is reality.

    Unfortunately it is harder to LEGALLY fight something after the fact than before it.

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