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Thread: First shoot...what do I need to know?

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    Default First shoot...what do I need to know?

    I am goin to try this photographer out...but before I do anything I want to research him first. He says he works for a company ( I guess I should ask for the name?) Also, he is looking for all types of models. I believe he's an amatuer just like me. So, I think I have a good chance to make some decent cash for the side(about 50+ for nude)

    Im slightly lost on what to do next...can anyone help me out with some suggestions?
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
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    God/dess Rhiannon's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    I had an advantage when I found my photographer. My sister has been working with him for the past couple of years, so she's built up experience with him, and likes him so much that now he is her manager. He's a really great guy, and you'd never, ever guess that he's amateur. Well, he refers to himself as amateur, but if you were to see his work, you'd say differently. He found me on OMP and guessed that we were sisters because of the facial features, especially our cheekbones.

    I would definitely advise you to get the company name. Also, ask him for references of the models he has worked with in the past and contact them. You'll need to know what it's like working with him, and if his behavior is professional. Research everything you can about him before you arrange to meet with him.

    Where did you hear of this photographer? Does he have a profile up on OMP, Musecube, etc.? If so, you can view samples of his work there, as well as see which models on those sites he's worked with.

    Some photographers will occasionally pay amateur models for their first shoots, but for the most part, they offer TFP/TFCD (Time for Pictures/Prints/Portfolio, Time For CD). That's an excellent way to start out, so that when you're meeting other prospective photographers, you'll have good quality material to show them. You could always do some TFP shoots with a few different photographers to get some varying styles for your starter portfolio first, and then start seeking paying shoots.

    I also suggest bringing someone with you for your first shoot. If the photographer has a problem with it, then chances are you don't want to work with him/her. Always think about your safety. Anyone with a camera can claim to be a photographer.

    Our own Jay Zeno is a photographer, and could probably add more tips for you, because I'm sure I'm leaving a lot out. If I remember, I'll post more. I'm sure that any others who have modeled can also add very helpful information for you.

    Good Luck!
    ~muah~

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    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Contract contract contract.....
    Make sure that it says on it that he can not use your images without your permission, or if you are okay with that, that he can not alter the images in such a way that your body is different or switching heads with another model (yes, they can do this unless specified on the contract.)
    If you want the negatives make sure you let him know that.
    Just make sure that he will not try to use them in any way that you aren't comfortable with. He might seem very nice, but it is your image that we're talking about. It is YOU so protect it with a contract.
    I modeled for a few companies and one actually had in it that the only way they would alter my image was so make the outfit (it was a swimsuit company) look better.. Meaning they could make my breasts bigger (I said I wanted copies of that!) But they put it to ensure that they wouldn't mess with my pictures in such a way that I would find them all over the internet.
    Plus, make sure it has the amount you will get paid on the contract, or written down somewhere. All professionals know to do this and so should he if ihe's done this before. This way the story doesn't change when you are ready to be paid.
    Good luck and have fun!!!!!! Oh, and get a lot of sleep the night before because modeling (posing) wears you out!
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



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    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Almost forgot! Ask him what he wants you to bring with you! As a dancer he might want dancer outfits.. but then he might want you as just a sexy little thing and non-dancer related.
    Bring extra make-up for touch-ups and a hair brush, and SHAVE! I forgot to one time and had to dry-shave.. ick!
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



  5. #5
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    REFERENCES?!?!!? ask for a MINIMUM of 3 models' references with no free mail service email addresses (meaning he cant go to yahoo and pretend to be a model reference) they need to be earthlink, sbc, netscape, etc. or get girls websites hes worked with and contact them through the site. Ask them about him. I NEVER work with someone unless i have at least 3 verifiable references.

    (surprised no one mentions this SAFETY precaution)

    get everything in contract. dont feel bad about stating what you want and dont want. dont waste your time on TFP or TFCD. many photographers that pay you will also let you use the images for promotional purposes (meaning you cant put them on a website or make money off them) as long as their info is on the pic. ask before you shoot about using images, get the rate down and make sure you give him your LIMITS. many photographers will try to get you to do things youre not comfortable with. DONT DO IT. Before you shoot make sure everything about the shoot is confirmed with the both of you and everything is agreeable. Make sure theres a minimum (hourly or $$) Ive had photogs that wanted a 1 hour shoot... thanks but no.. not worth my time..

    DO NOT SIGN THE MODEL RELEASE UNTIL THE $$$$ IS IN YOUR HAND. IT SHOULD BE DONE AT THE END OF THE SHOOT. DO NOT TAKE CHECKS. tell him CASH ONLY. lots of photogs will say they thought you would take a check. when you show up at the shoot confirm that it will be paid for in cash and that no release will be filled out or signed until you are paid.

    Do not shoot "pay by set" get hourly. Ask how many sets (costume changes) you will be doing. Always bring more clothes than you think you will need.

    bring copies of 2 IDs, they need these for their records

    ask about makeup (some like none, some like lots)

    And most of all.. relax... yea, shoots are work but theyre fun too. Ive made many friends over the 5 years Ive been shooting...altho I quit modeling last summer I still keep in touch with some.

    GOOD LUCK and if you have any other questions feel free to email me. I worked as my own manager my entire career and have MANY tips ive learned over the years.

    ~Audrey

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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    WOW I wasnt expecting all this...boy do I have my work cut out for me!
    *This is great advice for me b/c I have no idea what Im doing but I would like to start a portfolio and make some cash too.
    thanks soo much!!
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    BTW I met him through a friend that he works with. Soo hes says hes good and all and will professional but Id like to check things out for myself.

    I dont have a profile in OMP or Musecube yet.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Veteran Member devilsadvocate667's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Everyone has some great advice. One thing I might as is to meet him in a crowded restaurant or bar or other neutral place, to view his portfolio and meet him before hand.
    When I work with a photographer that I have never met before, or wasn't recommended by someone I trust, I always meet them before hand. I've done my fair share of nude modeling and learned that you can pretty much trust your instincts. If someone seems like a weirdo, you're likely right.


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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    OK I gave him a call and we talked about meeting some place (he offered and open place...ie starbuck etc). I asked him to see his portfolio and he asked to see ID of course.
    So thanks again you guys if you have anymore to add it would be great........
    *So I think it would be ok to discuss money at the meeting right?
    He does work for a company too (going to find out more about it monday) and he said it would be ok if I brang a friend too.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    He shouldn't have any problem discussing money..He's not a customer, you are one of his.
    Definitely enjoy yourself, and bring a friend, they usually help you with the natural looks (smiling w/ out it looking forced.)
    Definitely have fun and make sure he tells you everything you need to bring and where he is going to be taking the pics (outside, inside) so you can prepared if its going to be cold..
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    BAH I dont think were meeting today....its raining like hell and I need to wash clothes...anways this is what happened:

    He called last night and left a message saying that he had some people for me to meet today (monday) and that he wanted to schedule a time for today. I called back this morning early like 9am or so and the number that he called from a was internet hosting site; but, the number he left was to some guy (how can someone leave the wrong number)?
    So, this guy picks up and after 5 min of embarassing myself saying someone else left this number...he offered me a job in April for modeling for fitness equipment (oh gosh Im not where I want to be yet that is).....frusterated now.
    Just try again I guess?
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Veteran Member devilsadvocate667's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Sounds fishy to me. Unless things go professionally, I typically wont work with someone. Most professionals are super organized and detail oriented.
    I'm not saying he is a pervret (could be), but he certainly isn't a professional.

    I'd say don't work with this guy. There are plenty of very professional and talented photographers in all areas that would love to work with you. Most talented photographers are always on the lookout for new people. Just do some research. musclecube.com and onemodelplace.com are a good start.

    Good luck!


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    God/dess gypsy_girlchild's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by devilsadvocate667
    I'd say don't work with this guy. There are plenty of very professional and talented photographers in all areas that would love to work with you. Most talented photographers are always on the lookout for new people. Just do some research. musclecube.com and onemodelplace.com are a good start.

    Good luck!
    Just make sure if find another photographer that they are not charging YOU to take pictures or to hire you. Some agencies do that and then if they can't find work for you they keep that deposit.

    I would give him another chance, but I have dealt with people that had to reschedule at the drop of a hat. Have you spoken to him or just some other person he left a phone number for? It sounds like he wasn't clear about rescheduling due to the rain. If he isn't in a hurry to reschedule then he isn't worth the time.
    Good luck!
    Please don't lick me, it tickles..



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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    He hasnt called today or even the rest of yesterday! Grrr.....Eventhough I am a total amatuer I think I should work with someone who can schedule time correctly. Yea, DA I think your right I would think that they would be more detailed in their work or time for that matter. Oh wellers......I am going to try to post some digital pics on OMP and MC to see what I can get. Plus, Ive seen alot of photographers in my area who are willing to help build your portfolio.
    Oh, GC Ive been scared to go with an agency...what if they want me to diet even more. Im already obsesssed with my wieght enough and trying hard enough to tone up as much as I can.
    I wonder if most photgraphers work alone or with an agency?
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



  15. #15
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    A really good photographer once gave me some good advice: "I don't play games. I just move on." That helped me as much as any advice on composition, lighting, posing, or rule of thirds. Just move on and forget it. It saves a lot of anguish.

    Be aware that MuseCube will close its free accounts on March 10. Not much time left. OMP will get you more referrals, but when you put yourself down as doing nude/erotic nude/artistic nude, the creeps will be crawling from the corners and filling your Inbox.

    Art photographers and glamour photographers tend to work more on their own. Professional photographers for ad/fashion clients and the like tend to work more with agencies. At least, that's my impression. It just depends on what you want.

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    Senior Member NikkiWest's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    I only have a few things to add. I've done a fair amount of alternative modeling and the big thing I've learned is to make sure to ask any question you might have. Come up with a list and also "worse case scenario" questions. Even if you think the question sounds stupid or obvious, ask it anyway. What might seem obvious to you might never occur to the photographer. Don't worry about asking something personal (i.e. have you ever used photos for non-professional purposes) or direct (i.e. you said the shoot will last two hours for a flat fee. If you need to go over that time, what will be the over pay?)

    Pay a lot of attention to the contract and be ready to go over it with them line by line. If is says something you aren't comfortable with, do not take any verbal agreement that it isn't important or will be removed later. Instead, have the contract rewritten and typed up before you sign it.

    Nikki West

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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Thanks Nikki I was wondering about contract things.

    Is there any legal jargon in contracts that you might be able to decode. Im not quite familar with the legalities in contract yet.
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    ***update***

    Thanks everyone for your informative replies. Ive lost about 27lbs now and finally found someone to help me start out. The guy from the original post just was flakey or didnt want to put in the time to meet me at least. Oh well....so now I have 2 shoots in this upcoming week and another if the 2nd one goes well. All the good information helped me weed out the GWC who just want a twaut shot.
    WEEEEEEEeeeeeeee! Thanks you guys!!
    you live like an ivy vine
    you can only survive by clinging onto trees
    that's your flaw
    put down some roots so you can stand on your own
    -Kenpachi



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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Where are you located? Sounds like he's a jerk or a super amateur...my "pet" photog has screwed up like that before, but only for REALLY good reasons (and he kisses ass so great! lol)

    If you're in the Northeastern US...I may have names for you.

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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by TigersMilk
    ***update***

    Thanks everyone for your informative replies. Ive lost about 27lbs now and finally found someone to help me start out. The guy from the original post just was flakey or didnt want to put in the time to meet me at least. Oh well....so now I have 2 shoots in this upcoming week and another if the 2nd one goes well. All the good information helped me weed out the GWC who just want a twaut shot.
    WEEEEEEEeeeeeeee! Thanks you guys!!
    Hey Mami,

    Make sure you bring an escort. You don't want to be anywhere alone with that guy, REGARDLESS of how cool he is ok?!







    Some Douchebag: "[Pimp C] 12:43 am: its true we got to stick together the black people on SW CK you is teh condoleeza of SW"


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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Maybe this topic is too old for a response. But, I've photographed women for many, many years and i feel compelled to add my two cents. First of all, no photographer I've ever known has contracted with a model for services. Th relationship between photog and model is just too casual and ephemeral for contracts. The most important legal document connecting photographer and model is the model release. It spells out how the pictures can be used [as opposed to how they'll be used, because the photographer, if he's shooting on "spec" or for himself, may not know at the end of a session exactly how the photography will be used, if he is able to sell it at some point in time in the future. A release primarily gives the photographer the right to use his art as he sees fit. It also specifies how much the model is being paid for her services. If she is being paid. Trading services for copies of the photographs is a perfectly legitimate way of paying a model. Even with this arrangement a signed release is a must. On many occasions I've been hired by a woman to photograph her.
    I had them sign a release even under these circumstances. One never always knows how the collaboration betwen photographer and model will ultimately work out. A release protects both the model and the artist. No legitimate publication [including an online one] will buy photography without a signed release. However, a photographer does not need a release to publicly exhibit a model's photograph. I started photographing women in the late-60's and to this day I keep releases for every picture of a model i've ever taken. A serious photographer, even an amateur, will never give away his negatives or tranparencies, in the case of color slides. They are the only medum he has for reproducing his art. When rights to a photograph are sold the sale is only for the right to publish a particular photograph in a specific way in a specific part of the world. Sorry for the long and detailed posting, but I just want to save everyone here who is intersted a lot of grief.

  22. #22
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy View Post
    Maybe this topic is too old for a response. But, I've photographed women for many, many years and i feel compelled to add my two cents. First of all, no photographer I've ever known has contracted with a model for services. Th relationship between photog and model is just too casual and ephemeral for contracts. The most important legal document connecting photographer and model is the model release. It spells out how the pictures can be used [as opposed to how they'll be used, because the photographer, if he's shooting on "spec" or for himself, may not know at the end of a session exactly how the photography will be used, if he is able to sell it at some point in time in the future. A release primarily gives the photographer the right to use his art as he sees fit. It also specifies how much the model is being paid for her services. If she is being paid. Trading services for copies of the photographs is a perfectly legitimate way of paying a model. Even with this arrangement a signed release is a must. On many occasions I've been hired by a woman to photograph her.
    I had them sign a release even under these circumstances. One never always knows how the collaboration betwen photographer and model will ultimately work out. A release protects both the model and the artist. No legitimate publication [including an online one] will buy photography without a signed release. However, a photographer does not need a release to publicly exhibit a model's photograph. I started photographing women in the late-60's and to this day I keep releases for every picture of a model i've ever taken. A serious photographer, even an amateur, will never give away his negatives or tranparencies, in the case of color slides. They are the only medum he has for reproducing his art. When rights to a photograph are sold the sale is only for the right to publish a particular photograph in a specific way in a specific part of the world. Sorry for the long and detailed posting, but I just want to save everyone here who is intersted a lot of grief.
    The bold part. From a models POV - its a waste of time to do trade shoots unless the photographer is fan-freakin-tastic.

    Problem is - most that want to 'TFP' are brand new and have no money to pay and suck at shooting. They have crappy (or no) lighting and shoot from horrible angles. They are GWCs and are a waste of time.

    I just couldnt wrap around my head why these guys think I would want to waste an hour doing my hair and makeup, another hour driving and 3-4 hours shooting for their crappy pictures. Some just made me laugh - girls are really doing TFP with this guy? Ugh... This is from my experience and 6 years of modeling.

  23. #23
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy View Post
    Maybe this topic is too old for a response.
    Yeah, it is. Check out the "guide to becoming a model" posting stuck to the top of the section.

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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Audrey - I'm sure there are lots of craptastic TFP photographers out there, but there are also lots of OMP that have fantastic portfolios and are in such demand that they are able to get away with TFP. I think it works both ends of the spectrum.

  25. #25
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: First shoot...what do I need to know?

    Quote Originally Posted by NewMoon View Post
    Audrey - I'm sure there are lots of craptastic TFP photographers out there, but there are also lots of OMP that have fantastic portfolios and are in such demand that they are able to get away with TFP. I think it works both ends of the spectrum.
    I believe I covered that right here

    its a waste of time to do trade shoots unless the photographer is fan-freakin-tastic.

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