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Thread: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    ...and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon.

    The New York Times gets a rare glimpse inside George Bush's political machinations, and is probably hugely disappointed.

    As George W. Bush was first moving onto the national political stage, he often turned for advice to an old friend who secretly taped some of their private conversations, creating a rare record of the future president as a politician and a personality.

    In the last several weeks, that friend, Doug Wead, an author and former aide to Mr. Bush's father, disclosed the tapes' existence to a reporter and played about a dozen of them.

    Here it comes! The awful truth! Revealed beneath his happy-go-lucky exterior is his boiling fanatical hatred for minorities and Muslims and poor people and, and, and...

    The private Mr. Bush sounds remarkably similar in many ways to the public President Bush. Many of the taped comments foreshadow aspects of his presidency, including his opposition to both anti-gay language and recognizing same-sex marriage, his skepticism about the United Nations, his sense of moral purpose and his focus on cultivating conservative Christian voters.

    Wait, that can't be right! What about the oil stealing imperialism and the quoting from Mein Kampf and the multinational corporations that rigged the election to put John Ashcroft in power to, you know, torture homosexuals or whatever?

    But Mr. Bush also repeatedly worried that prominent evangelical Christians would not like his refusal "to kick gays." At the same time, he was wary of unnerving secular voters by meeting publicly with evangelical leaders. When he thought his aides had agreed to such a meeting, Mr. Bush complained to Karl Rove, his political strategist, "What the hell is this about?"

    Later, he read aloud an aide's report from a convention of the Christian Coalition, a conservative political group: "This crowd uses gays as the enemy. It's hard to distinguish between fear of the homosexual political agenda and fear of homosexuality, however."

    As early as 1998, however, Mr. Bush had already identified one gay-rights issue where he found common ground with conservative Christians: same-sex marriage. "Gay marriage, I am against that. Special rights, I am against that," Mr. Bush told Mr. Wead, five years before a Massachusetts court brought the issue to national attention.

    I've been trying to explain this to certain people from day 1: Opposing gay marriage does not equal opposing gays. It's just that simple. Marriage, as a state institution, is designed to encourage nuclear families and provides lots of cool legal benefits for that reason. Gay marriage totally defeats that purpose. I think Bush goes over the top with the constitutional amendment idea, obviously, and as I've said before, I instead favor the deregulation of marriage and the elimination of special recognition for marriage, as the structure of family, religious ceremonies, and personal relationships should not be within the scope of government. However, you can only explain this to certain people so many times before it's obvious they're incapable of seperating policy debate from their personal obsessions with victimhood. As that quote points out, of course, it can be hard to distinguish someone's real fears, and in this case, it's hard to distinguish the left's fear of fear of homosexuality from the left's fear of fear of the homosexual political agenda.

    (You may have to go over that last sentence again if you got lost.)

    The tapes are, in fact, full of interesting tidbits, and you probably ought to read the whole thing. The only thing the NYT could really find to try to play up as negative:

    Mr. Bush appears to have acknowledged trying marijuana.

    Like we didn't know that. Naturally, they seem to have missed the screaming irony:

    Asked about drug use, Mr. Duffy said, "That has been asked and answered so many times there is nothing more to add."

    Many of the taped conversations revolve around Mr. Bush's handling of questions about his past behavior. In August 1998, he worried that the scandals of the Clinton administration had sharpened journalists' determination to investigate the private lives of candidates. He even expressed a hint of sympathy for his Democratic predecessor.

    "I don't like it either," Mr. Bush said of the Clinton investigations. "But on the other hand, I think he has disgraced the nation."

    When Mr. Wead warned that he had heard reporters talking about Mr. Bush's "immature" past, Mr. Bush said, "That's part of my schtick, which is, look, we have all made mistakes."

    He complained repeatedly about the press scrutiny, accusing the news media of a "campaign" against him. While he talked of certain reporters as "pro-Bush" and commented favorably on some publications (U.S. News & World Report is "halfway decent," but Time magazine is "awful"), he vented frequently to Mr. Wead about what he considered the liberal bias and invasiveness of the news media in general.

    "It's unbelievable," Mr. Bush said, reciting various rumors about his past that his aides had picked up from reporters. "They just float sewer out there."

    No verdict on what ole' W thinks of the New York Times, though. Give it 48 hours, they'll brainstorm and figure out how to spin this: "President Lacks Nuance".

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    Banned Madcap's Avatar
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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Is there a transcript of this anywhere?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    Is there a transcript of this anywhere?
    sure, scroll down the page at for the article I posted. As to the GWB Wead tapes themselves, I believe you'll have to go to the NY Times, at least until they are 'leaked' to more media sources.

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    I wonder how pissed GWB is about this. I'd be furious if some 'friend' of mine was taping my calls to him.

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Is this legal to publish ?

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    I"m sorry I meant without the permision from who you recorded .

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Supposedly only recorded in states where it was legal for only one party to be aware ot it.
    Anyone could report on or write in their diaries, etc. whatever someone else said in private.
    The recordings only help to make transcripts and prove that the conversations happened, etc.
    Wead supposedly only relied on the tapes for one paragraph in his book. Still kind of sleazy
    if you have to worry that your 'friend' is wearing a wire. But there's no real embarassment...
    afterall, Clinton said he "didn't inhale"... haha.

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    If there's any upside to this, it's that recordings should be less prone to any after the fact 'revisions' versus written notes i.e. John Kerry's supposed secret missions to Cambodia. But then again, this is the computer age and there is lots of audio processing software available out there ... of course then again CBS learned a hard lesson about using the wrong software to create National Guard Commander's notes ! But to even the score, there's always Dick Nixon's missing 18 minutes worth of white house tapes. I guess the bottom line with ANY politician's statements reported by the media is not to believe they really said it unless you can see their lips moving, and even then don't believe that they really mean 100% of what they are saying LOL.

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    What I'd REALLY want to hear were the tapes of any conversations involving Paul Wolfowitz, Cheney, Karl Rove, Karen Hughes and Alberto Gonzales.

    You know, the people that REALLY run things...
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    "Experience is not what happens to you, but what you do with what happens to you."

    So the man tried weed, maybe was a full blown stoner, then later decided it was bad and didn't want to set that example. Nothing wrong with that...How many parents tell their kids "yeah, I was a %#&!*% in high school" for fear of setting a bad example?

    Personally, I'm concerned more about the illegal taping than that Bush smoked weed. As one radio personality said a few years ago (and I'm going to mess up the quote because I have CRS ((Can't remember, Sorry))) "Telling people to not to do as you do is hipocricy, teaching is demonstrating the why the choices you make now are right"

    Take this from an environmentalist, a stoner, who thinks the government should stay the heck out of our bodies, homes and lives, and wants 420 to be as available as alcohol, if not moreso. There's alot more to fight GW on than this. And alot we can support him on (ok, not alot- but some things).

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    I don't care if he smoked out xcept he tries to come off like he is so high n mighty, moraly superiou and all that

    as 4 the stuff he said about gays in those tapes vrs what he as done publicly.... well got 2 say that it looks like he has gone soft on his pledge to not kick gays even if the religious cons wanted him 2 go there.

    Looks 2 me like he is singing a differnt tune now and has been 4 awhile.

    If he isn't against gays then he sure has sold out to the bible thumpers

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Melonie,

    I protest! That was false advertising! I see nothing from the Necronomicon in this thread!









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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Quote Originally Posted by Madcap
    Melonie,

    I protest! That was false advertising! I see nothing from the Necronomicon in this thread!

    Hey, the article's author dreamed up the title, not me! But then again, one registered voter's 'great president' is another registered voter's 'demon from hell' LOL

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Melonie,
    I was giving you (apparently) undue credit for a liberal-arts education in popular culture. The line "And now Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon" is a line from The Simpsons--not an original thought of the author. I beleive it was the episode when Krusty the clown ran for Congress, and won.

    I considered a working knowledge of The Simpsons trivia as a positive aspect of personality development. I am sorely disappointed in you Ms. Charm. You need to have the TV on in the background while studying the tax code.

    PS Sorry wrong episode
    http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet...46/epid-107928
    Last edited by montythegeek; 02-22-2005 at 06:54 PM.

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    (off topic)
    If anyone wants to know what the Necronomicon is, it's a fictitious book of dark magic
    used in the stories of H.P. Lovecraft.

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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    Quote Originally Posted by myssi
    (off topic)
    If anyone wants to know what the Necronomicon is, it's a fictitious book of dark magic
    used in the stories of H.P. Lovecraft.
    Wow, myssi, i'm impressed. Most people have never even heard of Lovecraft.

    As a side note, some guy wrote a supposed "authentic' version in 1978 (The "Simon Translation."

    The snippet below can easily be found on the Internet...


    Lovecraft said that he invented the name Abdul Alhazred after reading Lang's Arabian Nights as a child; but elsewhere he said that, as an adult, he asked the family lawyer to make up an Arab name. BTW, the Arabic is wrong: the -ul of Abdul is redundant with the Al of Alhazred. A better rendering would have been Abd-el-Hazred although Joshi calls that "much less charismatic."



    In 1927, Lovecraft wrote the "History of the Necronomicon" as a tongue-in-cheek history of his mythical book. He said he did it to give "a sort of air of verisimilitude." Doubtless also to be sure that all the other writers who were making reference to the Necronomicon would be consistent.

    According to Lovecraft's "History," the Necronomicon was written in the 8th Century AD by the "mad Arab" Alhazred, and was translated into Greek under the title Necronomicon by Theodorus Philetas in AD 950, then into Latin by Olias Wormius in 1228. (The real Wormius--a Danish doctor--lived from 1588 to 1654.) An "imperfect" English translation was supposedly made by Dr. John Dee (1527-1600), an English mathematician and astrologer. And so on. Lovecraft thus created a detailed background for his imaginary book.

    When fans wrote Lovecraft in the 1930s to ask if these books were real, he replied truthfully (as quoted above.) In a 1936 letter, for instance, he says, "I am forced to say that most of them are purely imaginary. There never was any Abdul Alhazred or Necronomicon, for I invented these names myself."

    Could he have been lying? Doubtful. Joshi says that he seems to have been a very truthful person. It would have a been a long-standing and consistent lie. But more telling is that there is simply no other historical reference to a "Necronomicon" or to "Alhazred" until Lovecraft started writing about them. Nor to the various Old Ones (like Cthulhu and Yog-Sothoth)--no mention anywhere before Lovecraft's.

    Long after Lovecraft's death, several books appeared, sold privately or in bookstores, purporting to be new translations (or rediscovered copies) of the Necronomicon. Most of these are clearly spoofs or in-jokes. There are just under a dozen versions floating about, including one by Lin Carter and one by L. Sprague DeCamp, famous science fiction writers in their own right. All of them have an initial appearance that post-dates Lovecraft, usually by over 35 years.

    There is the "Necronomicon of George Hay" (first published in 1970), claiming to be the English translation by John Dee, taken from a copy in the British Museum. Joshi calls it "one of the most exquisite hoaxes of modern times." Critic Colin Wilson (who wrote the intro to the Hay Necronomicon) admitted in a 1984 fanzine that it was a joke, concocted by him and a few friends. The most commonly found version nowadays, and the only one that is not openly admitted by the author to be a joke or spoof, is the "Simon Necronomicon," published in 1977. The introduction claims it to be a translation of a Sumerian original, but it mentions gods and stories that are much later. There are other internal inconsistencies as well. Dan Clore says, "These hoax Necronomicons frequently display an utter lack of verisimilitude [in their content and in their introductions] where a little research would have provided a much more convincing story."



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    God/dess montythegeek's Avatar
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    Default Re: ... and now, Bob Dole will read from the Necronomicon !

    That is what Bob Dole and C. Montgomery Burns want you to believe Madcap. It is all part of the vast right-wing conspiracy.

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