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Thread: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

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    Senior Member Izzy's Avatar
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    Default Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    So, one of the questions I get asked alot when people find out that I strip is "doesn't it make you hate men?", and I always answer no. There are good and bad people regardless of gender. People also question how the work affects me emotionally, if I've become jaded or cynical about men or relationships or sex. I've always answered no to that as well. I work in a small, friendly club, where the management treats us really well, the bouncers are always on our side, and the girls are friendly and almost always get along. I'm a smart girl, who made an educated choice to do what I do for work, and I am happy with that choice and the fun, freedom and confidence it has provided me with.

    However, since I started reading and posting on other strip club boards (mainly the SC section of www.terb.ca) I've noticed an insane amout of hatred from the men on these boards towards dancers. They post the most terrible things, make sweeping generalisations, talk about dancers as if we're all the same (greedy, drug addicts, mean, incapable of real relationships etc.) There are threads about how strippers make bad girlfriends and can't have relationships, about how strippers are greedy and selfish. They talk about us like we are't even human beings.

    Reading these boards really shocks and hurts me and I start to wonder if all men who come into clubs think like this but just hide it? And also, if these assholes hate strippers so much, why post on the board, why visit strip clubs???

    I understand all the underlying issues...it's a power thing etc. etc. but it still hurts and angers me to read these boards (and yet I keep going back!!!). I once even posted a link to SW for the girls on the board, and all the guys just posted comments about how conceided and greedy the girls here are (????!!!!).

    Anyway, I know I should just stop reading the boards and focus on my club and my work, which is fine....but it's like, now that I know there are so many guys out there with such terrible, misogynistic attitudes, it's making work harder. I mean, I always knew these attitudes existed, I'm not naive...but I just never knew it was to the degree it is....grrrr...I always thought most of the negative attitudes towards strippers came from women, or anti-sex work feminists, or the conservative right, or relgious "family" groups or whatever...not from the customers!

    sigh.

    sorry for the rant guys, I guess I just needed to get this out to people who I know will understand!


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    God/dess kitana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Men in general are pigs. I might me a greedy woman at work but hey, that's what I"m there for right?!

    Anyway, if you think some of those are bad, you should read some of the TR's at the blue site. LOL Now those are funny.

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    mermaidnz
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    yep, SOME men are assholes. surround yourself with the nice ones

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    I suggest that most of us girls stay away from the blue site, or at least away from the Trip Report section. If reading massive evidence of misogyny and extremely piggish behaviour bothers you, don't go there!

    And just to keep the *sensitive* guys happy, no of COURSE I don't mean ALL of you, but there sure is alot of that going on over there.

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy
    Reading these boards really shocks and hurts me and I start to wonder if all men who come into clubs think like this but just hide it? And also, if these assholes hate strippers so much, why post on the board, why visit strip clubs???
    It's easy for the angry snots to hide behind anonymous board postings by lashing out at the beautiful people. The angrier the poster, the more likely it is that he can't get laid to save his life. You think these guys really have any idea what it is like to date a dancer? Gimme a break.

    Oh, and these are the guys with very small penises. Microscopic.

    You have to seriously feel sorry for these guys. How unhappy and frustrated and powerless they must feel.

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    It hasn't jaded me.... just made me more aware of the qualities and traits I seek in a partner (someone more than "just a lover"... a boyfriend). I guess your "addiction" to reading those boards is similiar to a car crash? You know you shouldn't look... yet you still do.

    None the less... I empathise.

    Some men are pigs, assholes and so forth.


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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    SOME men are assholes, but it comes out MORE in most clubs. Maybe that;s because the "energy" men get when going to clubs is cruder than in "real life" (gonna go look at T&A and nothings gonna stop me. She HAS To be friendly to me). and maybe it's because alot of clubs have a "turn em over, empty their pockets" tone. One club I used to go to charged $20 service fee on their ATM. That alone made me stop being comfortable there, except the girls were great.

    Also, few guys understand (not sure why, or how to change it) the way a club's supposed to work - pay her for her time and all - and many get offended by the "stop, shake and ask for a dance" hustle. For me, this is why I traded in and now go to my local Panties/Pasties bar (with the stage in the middle of the bar) more than any other SC.

    There has been more than 1 occasion, though, where I set a customer straight (even hit one of em) for his treatment of the girls. Whatever your mood, being a brute and/or ass is NOT OK.

    I'd suggest the club management, staff, and dancers (if this is a common problem in your club) look at ways to address it. Maybe it's going more upscale "showclub" - maybe it's changing the tone, maybe it's something else...


    Most of all, remember though it seems like ALL men are pricks, they aren't - I agree wth the comment above about the meanness compensating for penis size...

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Izzy,
    I can totally empathize. The terb.ca equivalent here is aspd.net and I read the stripper-doin-extras reviews sometimes for self-flagellation purposes, but I'm sort of self-destructive that way.

    But I totally agree with you that the negativity from men seems to have more vitriol than from the women on here. But if you ask most of the men who do post on these type of sites, they would claim that we are equally bad in our "I hate men" type of rants. Perhaps I am biased, but I have yet to see a dancer post a review of how she ripped a guy off of $200 worth of dances and farted in his face to boot.......know what I mean?????

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    ......and the blue site can certainly be an ugly place to be, but most of the blue-ballers are sweet, self-delusional, trying to get a rise out of the few blue ladies, or some combination thereof. I'm a proud Strip Club Junkie dammit!!!!!!!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    I totally know what you mean about how men can be mean or assholes. One guy asked me at my club mind you why do I do this work I am sooo pretty and I said well why do you keep coming back in every other day? What is wrong with what I do? His reply well you get naked were you hurt or raped before? I laughed and said NO I just get such a high off knowing instead of buying your wife food or flowers you come in and spend money on me just to sit here why would i not want to work here? He laughed and said i know huh?

    I hate that question because they are in the club asking it LMAO so to me I just say well why do you come here? To resure all the dancers?

    I also noticed that when you date a guy and they know you are a dancer omg they think you are this whore and when I don't have sex with them in like 3 days or that night I am weird? Why because I wait 3 whole months so I can see if you are for real or just another guy trying to date a dancer? I have done this and guess what I am sooo glad to know that I can walk away from those jerks knowing they didn't get into my pants. Alot of us are married, have kids, have a great realtionship just because we dance doesn't mean we aren't humen and live a real normal life!
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    Featured Member Meea's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    I have read the posts on terb.ca and you are right Izzy! the men say very rude and greedy things. All they do is discuss milage levels and bitch about song lengths being too short at 4 minutes! Idiots.. In My Opinion

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy
    ... I start to wonder if all men who come into clubs think like this but just hide it? ... [N]ow that I know there are so many guys out there with such terrible, misogynistic attitudes, it's making work harder. I mean, I always knew these attitudes existed, I'm not naive...but I just never knew it was to the degree it is....grrrr...
    Not all - and as best I can tell, not even most... so please stop wondering and please don't let the twisted attitudes of the morons you're referring to make work harder for you, K? While there's no denying that there's a significant number of guys out there that actually do think that way, IMHO they're greatly outnumbered by those of us who don't.


    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy
    I always thought most of the negative attitudes towards strippers came from women...
    For what it's worth, I still think that's the case - while almost all of my male friends, relatives, co-workers, etc., could've cared less that my GF was a dancer, damned near every single female I knew had a conniption fit when they found out! Moreover, they seem to have far more misconceptions about dancers, clubs, etc., than guys - and are far more difficult to convince that they're mistaken in their beliefs about same.
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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by GnBeret
    Not all - and as best I can tell, not even most... so please stop wondering and please don't let the twisted attitudes of the morons you're referring to make work harder for you, K? While there's no denying that there's a significant number of guys out there that actually do think that way, IMHO they're greatly outnumbered by those of us who don't.
    Dude, we could really do without the attitude. These are very real feelings and emotions we all have, even the veterans. If you are going to reply to this thread, please show a little empathy and courtesy. I don't usually like to group you with all of the asshate male posters who want to use this site to air their grievances on us, but its slowly changing. And I don't want to hear any excuses that you work for "emotionless corporations." That's just not gonna cut it this time!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Featured Member GnBeret's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine
    Dude, we could really do without the attitude. These are very real feelings and emotions we all have, even the veterans. If you are going to reply to this thread, please show a little empathy and courtesy. I don't usually like to group you with all of the asshate male posters who want to use this site to air their grievances on us, but its slowly changing. And I don't want to hear any excuses that you work for "emotionless corporations." That's just not gonna cut it this time!
    WTF??? You're way off base on this one, Kat - no "attitude" whatsoever was intended, and while, for whatever reason, you obviously read my post he wrong way, "empathy and courtesy" were all I was trying to show.
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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    They are like that because they can be - probably because the nature of strip clubs (that is, environments where men can come and humiliate women for money) frequently attract a specific kind of guy - the kind that like to humiliate women for money. I doubt that these guys are much different outside the club - we just get to see them in herds and put up with their shit, because, well, we want their money. Guys like to feel superior to women, and appearance and everything related to it is one area - possibly the only remaining area in which EVERY man gets to judge EVERY woman. Look at Howard Stern who sits around determining (really meanly) what women are pretty and not - I mean REALLY. That horrifying troll judging people who are way more attractive than he is. The reason men like strip clubs is because it is an environment where they can exercise a degree of control over EVERY woman. That is not going to lead to healthy attitudes.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Izzy,
    cant speak for anyone else, but me, no they dont all think that way, but i resent the others for forcing some to view all men as bad. Its too bad, bc you know, I just see it as a job, hopefully (for you) a job u can enjoy, but I sorta worry about friends in the business that it can be degrading bc of the pricks that can come in...anyhow...Sure hope that u maintain ur positive outlook, and know that there are at least a few guys that go in for a good time with their buddies, respect the girls, and realize they are just...u know, like a waitress, doing their job, hopefully well, working hard...and thats it. Hope that helps?

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Jenny- I think maybe, something is going wrong if the women are being humiliated...I would hope that they are just being..appreciated for their abilities, and if the men are there, they have a few dollars to spread around..which is always appreciated...Shouldnt be a trade "do this for that" type of thing!

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    ^^^
    Alas. They are not appreciated for the abilities that I hope you are referring to. I don't mean that guys ask you to wear a collar and ballgag (which I would personally prefer to some of the shit I do in a normal lapdance) - I just mean having to constantly belittle yourself so as to not be "better" than them. This is something we do SO much that we don't think about - like water to fish. It doesn't always bother any of us - some of us it doesn't bother at all. But every single one of us does it.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    ^^^
    Okay, I am now reading this website, and it's actually lightening my initial black mood. These people are MORONS. Why are we worrying about their opinions right now?

    "Fucking bitch stripper. I was her customer, and bought dances and pestered her and pestered to go out with me, and then... and then the bitch wanted money for it! The stupid bitch thought that because I paid for her time that I WAS GOING TO PAY FOR HER TIME!!!"
    Fucking hell, man. Even the bluies would be happy to at least PAY the chick to fuck them - even if they wouldn't pay her very much. These guys seem to expect stripper-sex-charity.

    Oh! We should totally be able to set up a non-profit for that. Like put a dollar amount on pity-sex, and set up a registered charity.
    I'm a genius.
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Jenny, the ablities I was referring to were merely those of..a belly dancer as well..someone who knows how to move her body...and if I am in a position to, which any man going into a club SHOULD BE...financially...for her time, and her hard work...of course I expect to pay her. I also respect her space. I respect her...and the fact that at the end of the night she goes home, has friends family, heck, may be my neighbor!!! You know, it is funny, as a guy, the last thing im thinking about when Ive been to clubs (not very many for me) is sexual.. Im more like "so hows ur night going!!" hahaaha. more a friend than...whatever other guys are...

  21. #21
    Chicagoeditor
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    While I don't image ALL dancers despise men, I can easily see how they sour on men in general. Look, you work in a strange environment in which you often see the worst of horny, drunken male attitudes. They say that long-time emergency room physicians start to see the whole world as a car wreck; dancers may start to see the whole (male) gender as a mindless prick in search of hot bod. Dancers, good ones, realize that they're entertainers. But it's an odd, free-form kind of entertainment that involves, of course, a kind of one-on-one, close-up intimacy with members (ha!) of audience. It's not surprising to me that some customers get confused because of the very nature of this theater.

    To the previous poster: I've actually felt that SCs are interesting because the dancers (within the safety of their bouncers' watchful eyes) are the ones in control, not the men.

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    sorry ladies, for my ignorance..what is the 'blue site'...this i gotta see!

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by GnBeret
    Not all - and as best I can tell, not even most... so please stop wondering and please don't let the twisted attitudes of the morons you're referring to make work harder for you, K?
    Sorry, its hard to know intention, but your tone infered that she needs to just STOP worrying about it. My humble apologies if I received incorrectly.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagoeditor
    To the previous poster: I've actually felt that SCs are interesting because the dancers (within the safety of their bouncers' watchful eyes) are the ones in control, not the men.
    I think that it is a little naive to think that. The fact is that a lot of factors go into determining the "power dynamic". One of them certainly is (sometimes!) that men come in to see us (although the number of guys on here that get indignant because we want to assume that they are prepared to PAY to see us floors me sometimes). Another is definitely (sometimes) the fact that we need/want the guys money usually more than he wants anything from us. That's why we have to sell, hustle, work rather than sit back and let men lay $100 bills folded into swans and roses at our feet. Me, I've gotten the occasional swan - but even then, it's mostly a $50. And then there are other issues - how pretty you are, how slender you are, how perfect you are, how pretty/slender/perfect every other girl in your club is, how ugly/unattractive/socially awkward the guy is, how busy you've been, whether or not your kids go to private school, etc.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Hatred towards strippers *rant*

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzy
    ...since I started reading and posting on other strip club boards... I've noticed an insane amount of hatred from the men on these boards towards dancers. They post the most terrible things, make sweeping generalisations, talk about dancers as if we're all the same (greedy, drug addicts, mean, incapable of real relationships etc.) There are threads about how strippers make bad girlfriends and can't have relationships, about how strippers are greedy and selfish. They talk about us like we are't even human beings.

    Reading these boards really shocks and hurts me and I start to wonder if all men who come into clubs think like this but just hide it? And also, if these assholes hate strippers so much, why post on the board, why visit strip clubs???

    Sorry for the rant guys, I guess I just needed to get this out to people who I know will understand!
    I'm from the UK and I have to say the idiot approach is not confined to the North American continent. If anyone wants to confirm this just visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/london_strip/ where you will see exactly the same philosophy being displayed.

    OK, the male perspective on why such men are idiots.

    (a) Stereotypes.

    Most dancers earn their best income if they conform to the "stripper stereotype". i.e. gets a kick out of being naked in front of strangers, potentially promiscuous, really fancies the guy she's dancing for,(no matter how old, decrepit, overweight and otherwise gross they are). If the guy is tipping, no dancer is going to dissuade him of his illusions.

    It takes time for a dancer to trust someone she meets as a customer. It's only when a dancer trusts you that she starts to confide some of the realities of her job. In consequence, few blokes ever get to know a dancer well enough to know there is a big difference between the "persona" a dancer uses when working, and her real personality.

    (b) Male fantasies.

    Most men have fantasised at one time of another about "dating the stripper". How much of the posting on the sites that upsets the dancers reading them is a by-product of men trying to trade "fantasies" with each other? And fantasies they are in 99% of the cases, cos the odds of most of these posters seeing a dancer OTC seem pretty low to me.

    (c) Social inadequacies.

    Not all man are socially adept with women. Basically, they will never get near to bedding women as attractive as many of the dancers working in a club. In effect, instead of getting satisfaction because a woman is attracted to him, he has to pay for that satisfaction in a strip club. Knowing consciously or subconsciously that a woman is only spending time with you because you are paying for that time is potentially damaging to the ego.

    The way some men with rationalise this is that the dancer is a "tart" because she earns her living by dancing naked. If the dancer is a "tart", then that excuses and/or allows their rudeness, etc. In effect they are trying to explain away some of their feelings of inadequacy by mentally putting the dancer into a category they feel superior to.

    (d) Standards of behaviour.

    Unfortunately, there are a significant number of di*kheads about in any society. Equally unfortunately strip clubs attract more than their fair share. In this case it's not social inadequacy, but because they don't know there's a better way to behave.

    (e) Dancers standards of behaviour.

    I've got to be honest and say this is a factor. Pretty well everyone on this board will accept that one of the primary motivations for dancers is earning an income. When a customer's financial resources are exhausted he's no further use to that particular dancer. Some dancers disengage very gracefully, thank the customer for their time and courtesy, etc., and in general try to leave the customer with a good opinion of himself. Other dancers grunt "thanks", and immediately head for their next customer like a heat seeking missile, leaving their original customer disgruntled in their wake. To that extent, dancers unwittingly contribute to the male stereotypical view of strippers.


    My personal take: I like dancers on the grounds that they tend to be very interesting people: they've either travelled further than most, are better educated than most, (i.e. degrees, etc), or have wider interests than most. I'm always intrigued by things I don't know, and accordingly have often really enjoyed conversations with dancers.

    I'd also have to say that I've found dancers more courteous and kind than most - for the good and simple reason that most dancers sooner or later develop a jaded view of the majority of men they meet in strip clubs. However, as soon as they are treated with a little politeness and consideration, most dancers more than reciprocate.

    In summary, unfortunately there will always be an above average quotient of idiots that both visit strip clubs and post about it. The fact that they express disparaging views about dancers does not make those dancers bad individuals - the comments say more about the inadequacies of the men posting them.

    Phil W.
    Last edited by Phil-W; 02-21-2005 at 05:54 PM.

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