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Thread: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    Just watching a great documentary on History channel about "Desert Tech" - and that is one of the lines in the show. A great story, demonstraing how people lived in the desert for centuries (sustainably as they could, working within the confines of nature), how we do it today.

    Among other things, they discuss how ancient Messopotamians actually built a great society (Babylon) that died out because it (and the waste product it produced, and raw materials it demanded) outstripped nature's ability to replenish or sustian,. A parallel was drawn with moden Phoenix, which for decades has been sinking because we're drawing out more water from the underground aquifer than we're putting back (or letting nature put back).

    Also discusses how the nighttime temperature in Phoenix has gone UP 15 DEGREES since the paving of the city...this makes it harder to cool (even at night) requiring more energy, generating more heat, etc......sounds pretty unsustainable, so a colony was built using old-style technologies (cost more to build, but less to run). Guess what? it worked, but developers thought it was "ugly" and expensive.

    Question: do you think we should, personally and as a society, spend more time and $$ for sustainable options, such as the demonstration colony mentioned above, or is it just not worth the effort?

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    Veteran Member myssi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    I saw some of that program too...
    cities are always warmer than bare land... no surprise.
    I haven't been to Arcosanti (began in the mid-1970s), but I have been to the smaller scale
    Cosanti (began in the mid-1950s). I don't consider these structures ugly and I think their
    point is that they are less expensive to build and maintain (not more). As a one-time
    Phoenician I can tell you that there are many strategies employed to minimize water and cooling
    costs. I think Las Vegas may be a better example of the expense of development in a hostile
    desert environment. Both Arizona and Nevada and perhaps a few other states have
    been shortchanged on water... because they did not take their fair share of Colorado River
    water, because the quantity of that water was overestimated, etc. A recent agreement
    will help these states, however, California's Imperial county farmers will need to cut
    back a great deal. Issues of water and power subsidies have long distorted economic
    reason in the west and led to some poor resource allocation (examples: growing high-
    water usage cotton in the desert, pumping water at subsidized prices during the day
    instead of at night, etc).

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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    Yes, I think we should as much as possible not harm the land that we live on.

    I think the commercialism that has built up around sustainability is disgusting and in many cases un-sustainable.



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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lena
    Yes, I think we should as much as possible not harm the land that we live on.

    I think the commercialism that has built up around sustainability is disgusting and in many cases un-sustainable.
    Exactly what she said.

    And why does it not surprise me that Phoenix is going to hell?



    Because there ain't no tits on the radio

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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    I was watching a show about new development in Britian. They build in circles. Each ring is alternating between commercial and residential development.

    Pretty cool - one can hop up or down, or round left of round right.

    And of course there would be the usual bicycle trails and the like.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    now...if we take as agreement that sustianable, environmentally-correct (which changes depending on the local climate and other factors) development and activity is best....why don't most people, developers and governments choose that course of action (Phoenix hasn't, for example)

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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    now...if we take as agreement that sustianable, environmentally-correct (which changes depending on the local climate and other factors) development and activity is best....why don't most people, developers and governments choose that course of action (Phoenix hasn't, for example)
    People like a uniform product - like McDonald's hamburgers, cookie cutter shopping malls and McMansions.

    With uniform products, it is easier to manage the building of multiple houses in terms of capital needed, skills needed, and sequence of operations for project management.

    If everything was different, it makes the builders job that much more difficult. We all know they only want to plow over some farm (or gopher holes), slap up a couple of walls, glue some siding on and call it a house. Then shift over three feet - call that a yard - and repeat.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    interesting...and sadly true. but why do we as people put up with that? or do we also want uniform.

    "Individuality is nice, as long as we all do it together" ~ Maj Frank Burns, MASH 4077

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    Default Re: Phoenix, AZ is sinking!

    Quote Originally Posted by discretedancer
    now...if we take as agreement that sustianable, environmentally-correct (which changes depending on the local climate and other factors) development and activity is best....why don't most people, developers and governments choose that course of action (Phoenix hasn't, for example)
    Derrick Jensen answered that question... in Launguage Older Than Words and in Culture of Make Believe.



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