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Thread: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

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    Default Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    (snip)""America's high schools are obsolete," Gates said. "By obsolete, I don't just mean that they're broken, flawed or underfunded, though a case could be made for every one of those points. By obsolete, I mean our high schools _ even when they're working as designed _ cannot teach all our students what they need to know today."

    Summit leaders have an ambitious agenda for every state: to raise the requirements of a high school diploma, improve information sharing between high schools and universities, and align graduation standards with the expectations of colleges and employers. Governors say they're in a position to unite the often splintered agendas of business leaders, educators and legislatures.

    But such changes will take what Gates singled out as the biggest obstacle: political will. (emphasis added)

    Requiring tougher courses for all students, for example, could face opposition from parents and school officials, particularly if more rigor leads to lower test scores and costly training. "(snip)


    It's about time that this subject has been addressed by some prominent Democrats as well as Republicans ! Things should get really interesting if some of the following issues finally come up for discussion ...

    - ineffective but currently unfireable tenured teachers
    - politically correct but arguably irrelevant curriculums
    - abandonment of social promotion in favor of actually passing exams
    - effectively disciplining disruptive students
    - expelling chronically disruptive students
    - correctly categorizing and separately teaching 'slow' students so that normal students educational progress isn't bogged down by the slowest common denominator
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-26-2005 at 10:07 PM.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Public school is an abomination and must be abolished.

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    Featured Member discretedancer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    to abolish, without a funded plan of what to replace it with, is a waste of time and effort...not to mentiond deadly.

    Major chages are needed, perhaps a redesign of the system to that the Europeans use...but we need the will (ass BG said) to do it and pay for it.

    Are you willing to raise taxes and volunteer your time to see better schools in the US?

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Time Magazine neatly points out an aspect (not THE aspect, but an aspect nonetheless) of such oppostion to change -
    http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050221/story.html

    Parents (not all of them, but enough of them in this country to cause real problems) who care more about protecting their kids from any sort of conflict, and less about their actual education.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Bill left out
    (Intentionally modified quote)
    correctly categorizing and separately teaching 'slow' TEACHERS so that normal students educational progress isn't bogged down by the slowest common denominator
    aka Firing incompetent teachers rather than letting the teachers' union protect them

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    I don't want to replace it with anything governmental. I want education de-cartelized by the government and the regulations and tax burden removed.

    I believe in complete separation of School and State.
    Far more necessary than separating Church and State.

    Catholic schools teach Catholic doctrine, Presbyterian schools teach Presbyterian doctrine, and Government schools teach Presbyterian doctrine. It is as simple as that.


    Public school is working EXACTLY as intended. The problem is what people think it is supposed to do and what it was set up to do are very different things. The originators were quite clear however; public school was about social engineering first with education and intellectual development and empowerment as a tertiary goal.

    in fact, some didn't see intellectual development as a goal at all. Quite the opposite in some cases:

    "In our dreams, we have limitless resources and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present educational conventions fade from our minds, and unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning, or of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, editors, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, statesmen, of whom we have an ample supply. The task we set before ourselves is a very simple as well as a very beautiful one, to train these people as we find them to a perfectly ideal life just where they are. So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops, and on the farm."
    Fred Gates in the first publication of the General Educational Board, Occasional Paper No.1, 1904

    I dare one to read de Tcoqueville's observation of America in the 1830s and contrast it with today.



    Some background:

    How look-say reading was forced upon America:

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Are you willing to raise taxes and volunteer your time to see better schools in the US?
    I have volunteered my time in the past - however it seems that gov't branches like school systems now have a problem with students interacting with exotic dancers (particularly those whose cup size is in the 2nd half of the alphabet)

    As far as raising taxes being the answer, as a New York resident I wanna be the first to tell you that the typical 'liberal' call for more, more, more money towards education is simply the wrong answer. The average per student educational spending in this state is well over $14,000 - yes $14,000 ! That's enough money to transport students to school in limos and buy them lunches at Sardi's, and more money than some of the best 'private' schools charge ! Despite these incredible spending levels, student achievement sucks and is getting worse. Obviously, the real problems and real solutions lie elsewhere. Until the 'liberal' status quo of the state educational dep't is ready to make some major systemic changes, nothing is going to improve by throwing even more tax money down the public education sewer.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Throwing money at a problem is obviously not the solution. I'm also against liberal policies of simply increasing budget/taxing in hopes this will lead to better education.

    One example of liberal policy- one FAILING city, Oakland, CA, with a $100 million deficit recently shaved $750,000 a year off expenses by simply removing cell phones from district workers:
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...1/MN131119.DTL

    This is a good example of where taxes are going when dropped into the education system here in California. One city/one district consuming close to a $1 million a year so as the district employees have cellphones at the student's expense. This begs the question how much per year is dropped into company cars, homes, and other luxuries and expenses are off the books.

    Head-start and enrichenment programs in failing areas and an emphasis of programs OUTSIDE the educational system are what get results.
    It doesn't matter if you're somebody in this world, it rather matters you mean the whole world to somebody.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Melonie, it is sad that what we do for work affects how people will accept our volunteer efforts. In your case it may have been as much jealousy on the part of the women you were volunteering with as the employment you have (If they feel inferior being in the first 3 letters, doesn't matter if you're a judge, your cup size will be an issue).

    I DO NOT accept that "Public Education can't work" - in fact without it many kids would get NO education at all. That is the problem it was set up to solve -kids of the poor who can't afford private/parochial education needed a way to learn. Globally, such a system works well (better than in the US by far) and so it is up to us to see what needs to change. Here are my 2c

    1. Screw the "half days" (weather related) counting as school days. THis (in my area) accounts for 5-10 education-free days that still count toward the 180

    2. NO ONE PASSES THE GRADE THAT CAN"T PASS THE TEST. I don't care if you're 25, can't read or write, and you can't get out of 3rd grade. And you also can't simply "drop out" - even waitresses and factory workers today need to read and write

    3. Head start and similar programs FREE AND REQUIRED to students that need help

    4. Parents volunteer at least 1 day per quarter, all report cards sent home to parents and signed, and parents must attend 1 teacher meeting per year.

    5. If the school says a kid is doing something wrong, that's the rule. Parent's can't claim "my little janie is an angel..." - TRUST YOUR TEACHERS, OR GET INVOLVED YOURSELF

    at my elementary school, one of our teachers was disciplined for TEACHING 6 YEAR OLDS TO READ AN ANALOG (ROUND) CLOCK! parents said "we have digital clocks at home..why do they need that? DUH! IT's called living in the real world.

    7 Mandatory testing for teachers - in subject competency and in teaching style/sensitivity. if you fail 2 tests in a 2 year period, remedial help. 3 in 2, and you're gone.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    I DO NOT accept that "Public Education can't work" - in fact without it many kids would get NO education at all. That is the problem it was set up to solve -kids of the poor who can't afford private/parochial education needed a way to learn. Globally, such a system works well (better than in the US by far) and so it is up to us to see what needs to change.
    Actually, since my esteemed grandmother was a teacher for many years, I would make the case that public education in America used to work, and that to make it work again many things need to be UNchanged ! By this I'm referring to the power of the educational establishment/unions to make or break a teacher's career based on their degree of subjugation and political correctness, I'm referring to gradual erosion of teacher authority in loco parentis to the point where it is essentially impossible to discipline students, I'm referring to frivolous lawsuits and/or out of control students making many teachers' primary concern to be 'butt covering' rather than teaching ...

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    wholly chit!!!!!
    You fuckers chill on all the links!!!!

    Who has time for all of that!?!?!?!?!
    Kripes!!!!!My contacts have dried out trying to keep up!!!!

    Its really very simple.
    There is a reason Bill Gates has more money then the entire US armys sperm count,he is right about alot of things,I happen to agree with what he is saying.
    It doesnt matter one friggin Iotta to him,i doubt any of his offspring,our thiers for generations to come,will EVER see the inside of a public school,unless its ona field trip from thier uberrich private school.

    The solution is very simple.

    Make being a teacher,not only the highest paying job in the world,but make it the kewlest job around,maybe with groupies or something,will leave that up to the sober.

    The only way things will change, is if we make "teaching your children well"
    a top priority in this country.
    First thing thats gotta go...
    tenur for teachers.
    test the fuckers,if they cant past a standards test,DUH!!!!! they lose thier job!
    I dont care how long ya been wipin chalkboards!!
    These are our kids,they are the future!

    Even eskimos know,there is nothing more important then who will chew your food in the future.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Poor hiring and maintenance practices for teachers.
    Poor, self-destructive attitude on the part of students (basically lack of guidance).
    MTV.
    Poor attitude on the part of most parents.
    Severe lack or foresight and the big picture by boards and state/federal funding agencies.
    Inappropriate funding support and lack of insight and the big picture by the taxing authorities.
    Self-assurance by all of the above that the Us will always be lead in education in spite of all of the above and hiring trends worldwide.

    In short this is a HUGE problem with no viable solution in most of our lifetimes.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Featured Member Destiny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    The two biggest misconceptions about improving the public education system:

    First, lower student/teacher ratios will improve performance. Whenever people talk about improving the system, they always call for smaller class sizes. There is no evidence smaller class sizes improve performance. In Japan, their classes are typically two the three times the size as in the U.S. So who stands to gain from smaller classes? Why the teacher's union of course. With smaller classes you need more dues-paying teachers.

    Second, as Melonie mentioned, that our schools are not adequately funded. There is no evidence that higher spending equals higher performance. If money were the answer, New York City and Washington D.C. would be the country's best performing school district's instead of two of the worst.
    Dancing is wonderful training for girls, it's the first way you learn to guess what a man is going to do before he does it. ~Christopher Morley, Kitty Foyle

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    There is no evidence that higher spending equals higher performance. If money were the answer, New York City and Washington D.C. would be the country's best performing school district's instead of two of the worst.
    Amen. Private schools illustrate this very well.

    Teachers' unions are a huge problem. They foster everything from job protection for incompetent staff to lowest common denominator instruction and curriculum.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    It is a lot more than teachers' unions. Those were set in motion years ago because of incompetent and self-serving administrative practices. Remember your high school principal? Would you want that person for a boss? How about those elected officials and the el;ectorate? How would you like those people controlling your boss and your unprotected job. That's the way it was before unions and that's they way it would return if they were gone. Are the unions blameless? No, probably none are. This is what society gets for being competitive at work rather than cooperative, even where your kids are concerned. We have met the enemy and it is us.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    This is what society gets for being competitive at work rather than cooperative, even where your kids are concerned. We have met the enemy and it is us.
    I would argue that just the opposite is the case. There is essentially no competition between tenured teachers - no chance of an individual pay raise based on superior teaching skills - no chance of being fired based on inferior teaching skills. When it comes right down to it, the only things that matter to a teacher's 'wallet' are staying in the good graces of the principal/school board/community to avoid being fired on 'political' grounds, and seniority.

    If you really want to improve teaching and learning results, try basing 50% of a teacher's paycheck on the percentage of students that actually pass midterms/finals, in the same way that 50% of most dancers' earnings are based on the percentage of customers that can be convinced to actually buy private dances !

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    WHOA WHOA WHOA
    SHOT

    I WASGONNA POST THAT LINK
    JOHN TAYLOR GATTO
    POPS IT OFF
    WORD
    wooord
    haha

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Unions are needed for some jobs because of non-cooperative work conditions. Both sides abuse that arrangement. That is always the case when unions exist. It is also the case when they do not. The difference is who has the upper hand, largely not the quality of the employment or its product.

    Further, schools are called upon to administer all sorts of social programs -- health needs of disabled, custody matters, legal matters of the child, fund-raising for extra-curricular activities, adult emphasis on extra-rather than intra-curriculars, adult education programs and facilities, community facilities, and many, many more extraneous issues. What we have is a system overburdened by social matters, rather than one completely dedicated to education issues. We also have parents who cannot and will not parent; administrators who cannot or will not competently administer, governing boards who are incompetent at governing the school systems, governing boards that are elected with no real background at education, governing boards and other officials who use their position for graft, corrpution, and other means of personal gain. Parents, government, and society who cannot afford, and do not intent to increase, the money they sink into a largely non-productive system, the output of which is at best second rate if it is even competently measurable. Which it is not.

    In short an educational system in the midst of a complete breakdown with little impression of competence by the public and government as well.

    Other than that, it is doing well.
    Last edited by threlayer; 03-11-2005 at 07:40 PM.
    I loved going to strip clubs; I actually made some friends there. Now things are different for the clubs and for me. As a result I am not as happy.

    Customers are not entitled to grope, disrespect, or rob strippers. This is their job, not their hobby, and they all need income. Clubs are not just some erotic show for guys to view while drinking.

    NOTE: anything I post here, outside of a direct quote, is my opinion only, which I am entitled to. Take it for what you estimate it is worth.

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    Default Re: Bill Gates calls US High Schools obsolete !

    Quote Originally Posted by threlayer
    In short an educational system in the midst of a complete breakdown with little impression of competence by the public and government as well.
    Well put. a breakdown of a portion of a nonsustainable society (globally) can't be called unusual. Solving the larger problem involves but is not exclusively require solving the smaller, component issue.

    In short, we need to do what we can, in our own lives, to make more sensible choices, including: parents taking responsibility, communities working with schools, educators working with administrators, and communities doing a better job balancing Ethics, Economy, Environment and Education.

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